Enterprise 4/24: "Detained" Thread

[vivalostwages]

Having searched and not found, I'm gonna go ahead and start this one, with just a few thoughts at random:

--Who was that guy detained with Archer? Oh yeah--the guy who almost never has more than one line per episode. They must have used up his entire season's quota in one hour.

--The title was kinda blah. I think there were stronger possibilities.

--Malcom actually looked pretty good as a Suliban.

--How long do you think it will be before T'Pol and Trip really do come to blows, more or less, over her command decisions when the Cap'n's off the ship?

--DEAN STOCKWELL!!! No Ziggy in sight, but the quasi-Leap reunion spin was cool.

--The analogy/allegory was blindingly obvious. But I did like the way they left it hanging at the end as to whether or not the escaped Suliban would be all right or not.

--Just how do you tell a Suliban male from a female?

--Overall: I liked this one. Not the best of the lot, but decent.

--next week's ep. looks kinda....gooey.

[Stinky]

I think that Trip and T'Pol are gonna end up shagging, but that just means there fights will be better.

I also liked seeing anouther side of the Suliban.

Deffinately one of the better episodes.

But one disipointment no one was shown in there underware.

[Saitou]

Ziggy says there's a 90% chance that Stockwell sleepwalked the part. Subtle analogies have never been a strong point.

Decent enough episode, we're nearing the end of the season and so far as first season's go the series hasn't been bad but it hasn't been exaclty great either. I do wish they'd take more risks storywise [it'll never happen i know] but I do in general like the pacing of the show.

Okay hands up who else was waiting the whole episode for archer to say "Oh boy"

[Gundy]

Originally posted by Saitou
Okay hands up who else was waiting the whole episode for archer to say "Oh boy"

Immediately after Dean Stockwell turned around in his office, I said, "Oh boy." I'd have paid cash money to see that.

[Jerevan Somerville]

The episode was decent, not the greatest writing but not the worst ever, either.

I especially enjoyed the scene in which T'Pol invited the Colonel to dinner, and proceeded to send him every database she had available to prove their non-hostile intentions. Very gracious, chatty, almost cheery -- or as near as a good Vulcan can get.

[Tars Tarkas]

I liked Stockwell's little info device, looked sorta familiar...

[JustPlainBryan]

What I'd like to know is when the crew started playing fast and easy with the transporter. I heard numerous statements throughout the episode giving you the feeling that the transporter is now proven safe for living beings. When did this happen?

Also, when was the shuttlepod equipped with weapons? I thought that phase-weapons were still an iffy proposition on vessels, and the energy expense was prohibitive. So what gives?

Also, it seems to me like Archer and crew are making alot of enemies with their selective interference/non-interference. In this episode, they've pissed off a potential ally against the Suliban by interfering with their legal process. In another episode, we have Archer pissing off the Valakians by not interfereing with the "natural" process of a plague that was decimating them. In yet another episode, we have Archer pissing off a group of Alien hunters by interfering and "leveling the playing field".

I could go on and on with more examples, but it seems to me like a whole lot of aliens should be chomping at the bit to kick Earth in the ass. I wonder if the higher-ups are considering their decision to have Archer as the captain of this mission, especially seeing as how he's burning all these diplomatic bridges, and Earth barely has a decent Starfleet with which to defend itself.

Also, why does it seem like Enterprise's technology (which represents about 80 years of space-faring technology) is far more advanced that some of the space-faring races that conceivably have had space faring technologies for alot longer?

[puddleglum]

It was a decent episode, the stuff on the ship was good and the ending was good to. However, the message was just too obvious. They just seemed to go out of the way to hit you over the head with the WW2 analogy.

[SpaceGhostofArrakis]

I think the intent was to make sure Trekkies don't go rounding up Muslim neighbors...

[Tars Tarkas]

lets see here...

Suliban, Taliban,
Cabal, Cabal,
Genetic Enhancements, Camels
Mysterious Guy From the Future, Osama in a cave


I fail to see any parallels, do you?

[Lute Skywatcher]

Originally posted by vivalostwages
Having searched and not found...

Did you try MPSIMS?

[fiddlesticks]

Originally posted by JustPlainBryan
What I'd like to know is when the crew started playing fast and easy with the transporter. I heard numerous statements throughout the episode giving you the feeling that the transporter is now proven safe for living beings. When did this happen?

If I recall the early moments of the premiere episode correctly, they mentioned that the Enterprise's cargo transporter was "human-use-approved" but nobody wanted to be the first to have their atoms blown apart and reintegrated.

Of course, in the episode's climax, Archer is saved from certain death by being transported off the Suliban ship.

I believe Malcolm is the 2nd person that they've shown using the transporter, though I missed at least one episode...

[Cervaise]

I thought it was a nicely produced episode based on a thoroughly mediocre script. Trip's strafing run over the compound was one of the most ambitious (and successful) effects sequences in Trek TV history, IMO.

And yet...

The metaphor was timely and valuable, but screamingly blatant. I know television tends to be dumbed-down, but this was ridiculous.

And the thing that really bugs me about latter-day Trek is how little regard there seems to be for the larger implications of what the heroes are doing. This ties into what JustPlainBryan says about who now hates Earth, but consider, also, that this internment camp was one of probably thousands across the <Tanarans? insert alien name here> Empire. What happens to them? What does the <alien name> make of this incident? Imagine the uproar in the United States if a bunch of guys from Papua New Guinea busted into some supermax prison and freed Leonard Peltier (or whatever "political prisoner" fits your personal symbolism). The <aliens> aren't gonna re-evaluate their politics; they're just gonna crack down even harder. And the thing is, the whole situation so clearly maps as a metaphor for modern human history that these complications can't be ignored; if they'd been a little more subtle about it, these might have gone unremarked.

Political complexities ignored in order to deliver a simple-minded moral... sigh...

[Tars Tarkas]

I thought the Aliens were the Tandarans, which makes me think they are the descendents of those that invented the Tandy Computer.


How cool would it be if Dean Stockwell was the Future Guy?!?!?!?!

[JustPlainBryan]

Originally posted by Tars Tarkas
How cool would it be if Dean Stockwell was the Future Guy?!?!?!?!

That only Archer can see and hear?

[DSeid]

I had a real hard time with Archer being such an idiot, so unconcerned over interfering in an alien culture, so unconcerned with the fact that he's made an enemy of a likely ally against a common foe.

Of course I also have a hard time with the logic behind placing unknown aliens in an internment camp, and holding them with the general population ... just don't mix ... ok? And once identified as a possible alliance partner with potentially valuable information not either trying to treat as such.

A possible ongoing theme could be how and why the Prime Directive developed. Some angst and confusion over the rights and wrongs, some negative consequences for arrogantly deciding what is right for another culture and in a situation that you are not fully aware .. would help.

[vivalostwages]

Originally posted by Jeff Olsen
Did you try MPSIMS?

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No, I was only searching in Cafe Society because that's where the thread had been before and it seemed like the more appropriate forum. Thanks for the link, though.

[Zebra]

Overall I thought it was a good episode and I hope this starts a trend.

Yes the message was obvious but I did like the way the captured Suliban and 'the bad guys' seemed to be friends and in a sick twisted way Stockwell really seemd to care for his prisoners. (that could have been better developed) But this sort of morality play is one of the big reasons I love TOS, so I hope they keep it up.


It's great now that they can do action sequences like the straffing run on the compound. This adds a dimension that is lacking in TOS (no money for fx) and if they keep a balance between showing the action outside of the ship and real drama (or even humor?) inside the ship it could be a great show.

[Sycorax]

Ho-hum. It was okay. Didn't feel strongly about it one way or the other, which how I've felt about most of them. Used to be that T'Pol ruined it for me...now it's Archer. I'm actually starting to like T'Pol -- she was good in this one. I haven't seen a lot of Bakula's acting, but I thought he had a greater range. His gee-whiz, low-key persona (while managing to be sanctimonious) bugs me, but maybe that's how the writers/director want him.

[Enderw24]

OK. Can I admit something really really embarrassing? I can? Great!

The colonel of the internment camp turns around and I yell out "That's Dean Stockwell from Quantum Leap!" I actually start laughing at it. That he's shown up for a cameo.
It wasn't until the last scene. The VERY last scene where the Colonel is pointing a gun at Archer in the prison cell where it all finally clicks. "My God...Stockwell...Bakula...I get it! God I'm a complete idiot."

OK, here's one of my ST pet peeves. The dramatic turn. Next episode I want everyone to look for it. It's a dramatic moment and someone says something or asks a question and the other character pauses, turns towards the window, zoom in closeup of the isolated soul, and he or she reveals everything. It happens every friggin time. Stockwell did it this week.

Does T'Pol read newsgroups? Because she seemed much more chipper this week. As if she was trying ever so hard not to be her usual snooty self.

[vivalostwages]

Originally posted by Sycorax
Ho-hum. It was okay. Didn't feel strongly about it one way or the other, which how I've felt about most of them. Used to be that T'Pol ruined it for me...now it's Archer. I'm actually starting to like T'Pol -- she was good in this one. I haven't seen a lot of Bakula's acting, but I thought he had a greater range. His gee-whiz, low-key persona (while managing to be sanctimonious) bugs me, but maybe that's how the writers/director want him.

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I think it's entirely possible that Bakula and company have more range than they are allowed to show due to certain constraints placed on them by others, just as you suspect. It wouldn't be the first time this has happened on episodic TV. Maybe they'll let them stretch out a bit next season. We'll see.