I’m not being anti-police, but I’d like to know if these guys have the legal authority to direct traffic (especially to hold up oncoming traffic) while they are in uniform but off-duty. I’m assuming they are off-duty since they often are not in full uniform or are standing by their personal vehicle, so for this post, let’s assume the police/deputy is off-duty.
There are two situations/times when I see this, so it is a scheduled occurrence: Downtown parking garages at 5:00 pm (oncoming traffic gets stopped so the garage patrons can exit) and at certain large suburban churches on Sunday mornings.
I know it can be difficult to exit a parking garage or a church lot at certain times, but why should 5-10-20 cars be stopped so 5-10-20 other cars can get onto the same road when they voluntarily parked in a place which will be difficult to exit?
So, do the off-duty cops have the authority to do this?
(please disregard my username, this post isn’t about my lack of patience as much as it is about a possible abuse of power)
Yup, sorry Mr.W8 they have the same authority as if they were on the clock. Doesn’tt really matter what time it is or whether or not they have their uniforms on. I mean I have seen off duty cops wearing their side-arms. Its not like an off duty cop would just sit around and do nothing if he saw a crime or something along those lines. Plus the guys you are talking about most likey are racking up major OT for what they are doing…
If they are off-duty, why would they get overtime? I think it is more likely that they are off-duty and being paid by the parking garage company or the church and wearing their uniform to look more official. If this is the case, should they have the legal authority to stop traffic for this reason?
It isn’t like they’re re-directing traffic around an accident or pursuing a drunk driver and doing their job off the clock.
Trust me Mr.W8 if they have their uniform on they are being paid over time by the police department. I have a few cops in my extended family and I have asked similar Q’s before. It is over time.
Whenever you see a cop on Sunday, not doing normal cop duties but in their uniform you bet your ass their getting paid overtime. They are definitely not there for their health…
Because otherwise the cars stuck in the lot could be there for hours, unless one of them gets crazy and risks a collision, or a car on the road lets them by, pissing off those behind him, some of whom would get crazy and risk a collison…
What you have is a situation that calls for a traffic light, but only a few hours a week. If people want to go to church or to events, they have a reasonable expectation that they can get from the parking lot into traffic without an undue wait. They’re citizens and taxpayers just like the drivers on the road. Having a traffic cop see to it that everyone gets a fair chance to move along strikes me as the right thing to do.
The legal authority to do so? I don’t know. But even if it’s not spelled out in the law, it’s a reasonable thing to do and I’d be surprised if any authority would act against it.
This makes no sense. At the office where I used to work, the building management paid a couple of cops to direct traffic from 4 - 6 pm. So you’re saying that they were paid by the building management and paid overtime by the police department? That’s obviously not right. I can see if the cops were directing traffic for some official function (let’s say the Olympics) they would be working overtime for the police department. But if a private business chooses to hire them, the PD isn’t going to foot the bill.
rsa if a cop works 40 hrs a week lets say monday to friday…then wants to direct traffic on sunday…thats overtime…on the same token…if a cop wants to work his 8 to 5 shift then go and direct traffic at a sporting event or something of the like, THATS overtimes as well. Different states have different laws, but in CT thats the way it works and i am pretty sure its the same elsewhere …
When I raised a similar issue with a sheriff’s deputy redirecting traffic near the stadium at the .edu I once attended, he said that he was being paid his $16/hr AND working above and beyond his regularly scheduled hours. I’m wondering exactly how the money changed hands though… did it go [Event Promoter] -> [Sheriff’s Department] -> [Sheriff’s Deputy] or did it go [Event Promoter] -> [Sheriff’s Deputy] ?
On a related topic, one time I saw a man working armed security at the local all-night diner (again in college) wearing a uniform that was a dead ringer for the NC State Highway Patrol’s uniform. On closer inspection though, his patches all read “Safeway Patrol”. I wonder if that might have been a private security company that only used off-duty Highway Patrol officers?
Phlosphr, let’s rephrase that question; are you saying that cops get paid by the CITY for MOONLIGHTING? 'Cause I think what you’re talking about is when a private party pays the police department to do extra security (which they can do); in such a case, the police are on duty, working overtime.
But if a cop moonlights as a security guard, or as traffic control, I don’t think he gets paid by the employer AND the department.
Gary, Phlosphr - please let me clarify my OP. This isn’t about overtime or reasonable traffic movement or taxpayer rights.
If the cop is being paid by the business or church (and not the city/county government) to direct traffic is he any different than any other security guard, and therefore does he have the police power/authority to hold up traffic?
Since the cops/deputies I’ve seen doing this are often not in full uniform or are there with their personal car, I’m guessing they are moonlighting and being paid directly. If that’s the case, do they have the authority to stop traffic for their employers (the garage or church)?
Should these businesses/churchs that need traffic direction then go through the local government to request support from the police (and pay the department to pay the cops if necessary)?
The cops having their personal car may or not make a difference. I can easily enough imagine a police department allowing officers to drive their own cars to a fixed traffic directing post for a couple of hours at the beginning or end of their shift. ( I work for a law enforcement agency (not police) where officers routinely use their personal vehicles)The uniforms probably make a bigger difference. I can’t imagine any police department allowing its officers to wear uniforms while moonlighting. What exactly do you mean by not in full uniform?
Doreen
As I understand it, police probably do retain their “special powers” even when not working their regular shift or working at all.
I saw an episode of COPS where a very dumb criminal had broken into an elderly lady’s house during the evening, when her son - who was a police officer - was there. Off-duty cop grabbed his gun and chased after the guy… now it gets a little fuzzy here *** if I’m not confusing two separate episodes, the bad guy took off on a bicycle, and the cop jumped in his car and drove into him, knocking him off, then pinned him down until the on-duty cops showed up. When they got there and piled on, the guy kept saying “boys I’m a cop, I’m carrying a gun” so they wouldn’t see it and cuff him too. Afterwords they checked him out, asked a few questions, and he left - while all the while the theif on the ground was crying about this crazy dude who ran him down with a car***. In other words, this off-duty cop “got away” with several serious charges that would have landed you or I in jail along with the theif, even if we were just trying to hold him (like carrying a concealed loaded handgun, speeding through a parking lot and jumping curbs, intentionally hitting a guy with his car, and possibly “assaulting” him afterwords)
Yes, very annecdotal I know. However, it’s not the best of both worlds for off-duty cops… I beleive they also carry the burden of responsability and duty to interviene when they witness illegal acts when they’re off-duty as well (big ones like assaults or looting - not jay walking), and if it’s found that they were present during such a thing and stood by doing nothing or walked away, they’d be in a heap of trouble whereas a normal citizen wouldn’t.
So if I’m right, they can do things like direct traffic when not on the clock, but they’d also have to do things like try to aprehend some guy slashing tires in a parking lot or at least make the call to on-duty officers and stick around to provide assistance until the whole thing is settled.
Is there a real cop on the message board to answer these questions?
I can’t speak for officers everywhere, but in the departments I know about, officers work off-duty shifts (paid entirely by others) and maintain their authority. However, if they are injured on the job, they may – depending on their department – be eligible for workman’s comp.
Several people have stated that off-duty police can intervene when they witness a crime. Fine. What does this have to do with the OP? People driving on the road are not commiting crime, so what right would off-duty police have to stop them or interfere with the normal flow of traffic on the road? If they can, does that mean an an off-duty police officer set up a traffic check point in front of his house just because he feels like it?
They’d need a good reason for going out and ordering traffic around; like there was an accident/emergancy or the owner of a busy parking lot hired them to do it in agreement with the police force, possibly because it’s too expensive to put up a traffic light for the 30 minutes/week that people are trying to leave the church parking lot.
The relevence of saying an off-duty cop can or may have to intervene in a crime is that it’s another example of how they don’t instantly turn back into a regular citizen when their shift ends; that they can still do things on-duty cops would do without having to get an officer who’s officially on-duty to drive over and do it simply because his own shift doesn’t start for another 2 hours - under some reasonable circumstances or conditions.
So no, Cheif Wiggum can’t go out there with a lawn chair and whistle pulling over every car going by to see if the drivers have licences on his days off, but he could go out and direct traffic around your car after your driveshaft fell off in front of his house until the tow truck arrived.
Still waiting for a real cop to show up here, though it looks unlikely…
Not a cop I’m afraid, but I’ll give it a shot. (Note: the following is based on the Canadian position, so I don’t know how easily it translates to the U.S. situation.)
I think the discussion is confusing two things: an officer’s status as a peace officer, and the officer’s employment status.
A police officer is a “peace officer” with powers set out by common law and statute. An officer does not cease to be a peace officer until he or she turns in the badge.
An officer is also an employee of a police department. The department pays the officer to exercise his/her duties during regular shifts.
For employment purposes, an officer may not be on duty, but as a peace officer, he/she is always on duty, and can exercise the duties of a peace officer, even if not on a shift with his/her employer.
With respect to the more detailed question in the OP, I doubt that we can resolve it. We would need to know the jurisdiction in question, and the precise arrangement, if any, that the churches have with the police officers and the local police force.
