I just cheated on my wife

[Ferrous Wheel]

After reading some other posts about marital relations, I feel compelled to share this with you all.

In recent days I went to meet a woman I met in an online forum, and we ended up in bed.

I'm not proud of it, but I don't feel any particular degree of remorse either.

What "made" me do it? I don't know. Wife and I haven't been getting along much for the past several years. Maybe I was bored. Maybe I was curious. But I do know, that during my online carrying-on I started to feel strong feelings for this other woman.

I still do love my wife very much, and it hurts me very much that our marriage is falling apart. She has no idea that any of this is happening. And I think that this is what makes me feel worst, not the act of betrayal or the fact that I've had intimacy with another. Just the fact that I'm carrying on, and getting away with it.

Wife and I have talked extensively about our problems, but I don't have any immediate plans to leave her. Part of me is wishing that we don't work out our problems, not so much so that I can be with other person but rather so that I can convince myself that we were doomed anyway and thus alleviate some of the guilt. In general I don't want to leave her and go straight to the other woman, although I'm reasonably sure that would be an option.

I will never share this detail with her because she's a very proud person and would not forgive me.

Thanks for listening

[omniscientnot]

I really feel for you. Not that I'm in that kind of situation. It's just the general tone of your post, I guess. Having never been married or even lived with someone else, I'd be hard-pressed to give you sound advice; the only thing I can think of, off the top of my head, is marriage counselling. But you perhaps have been through this (with limited success) already. Others here will be infinitely more resourceful than I. You can certainly count on the teeming millions to come to the rescue. Not saying they'll solve your problem. But maybe making you feel a bit better about yourself would be a nice start.

Best of luck to you. I really mean it.

[nene227]

I feel the need to give you some advice. I'm married, have been for 24 1/2 years, to the same wonderful man. This may sound like rambling, but here goes. You don't mention how long you have been with your wife, or if you have any kids (correct me if I'm wrong on that). But I have a theory, and it is that if someone will cheat once, they will cheat twice. Maybe you haven't had such a good marriage, but good or bad, it was a marriage, and you broke a commitment. Whether you think she knows about your dalliance or not, she probably does. Most woman suspect. Whether you stay or go, I suggest you work out why you feel the need to cheat and sneak. You say you feel bad, but obviously not bad enough. Just my opinion.

[TubaDiva]

Is this a true story? I'm gonna act like it is, although who knows?

The pain sounds genuine enough.

I will try not to moralize -- even though you told us your story, it's none of my business. And you know, you know; what can I say to you that you have not said to yourself?

If you're looking for a beating to salve your conscience, you won't get it from me.

I will tell you the truest thing I know when three's a crowd:

You can't build your happiness on someone else's unhappiness.

When a relationship is broken, acting straight up as you work your way out of it is the only honorable way to be; if you ever loved her, you owe it to her and to yourself to be a man of integrity. Maybe it took betraying your marriage vows for you to see your way clearly; if so, this dishonorable thing has served to steer you on to the right path.

You're correct that it's not about the other woman -- it's about your relationship (or lack) with your wife, the woman you still love but perhaps cannot stay with.

People grow together, people grow apart; sometimes the most loving thing to do is to set someone free.

If marriage counseling is not an option, at least some therapy for you might be useful.

I'm sad for all of you caught up in this. And reminded that when you come from that hunger place, you do not make good choices.

your humble TubaDiva

[Ferrous Wheel]

This is really happening, TubaDiva.

I'm not looking for a beating or a justification... I guess it just helps to talk it out and hear myself. It seems like I'm not even talking about myself... besides the marital vows of fidelity, I made a promise to myself that this would never happen. But it did, and I have to live with myself no matter what happens at home.

I know I "should not have" done what I did, and that I was (and continue to be) less than honorable. Yet, I think I would do it again. I don't know, I guess I don't know myself too well any more.

I honestly don't think that marriage counseling is an option for us. My wife is the kind of person who would think that it's already over, if it's at the point of seeking counseling. And to be honest, I'm terrified that the counselor would tell us that it's time for both of us to move on, and I'm not ready to face that yet.

Nene, she doesn't know. I agree, women generally have outstanding perception... but I know, without a doubt, that if she really knew about this I'd be elsewhere or dead.

For what it's worth, we've been married for 10 years and we have one child. Sometimes I think that we're still together for family's sake, but other times I've thought that we're together because we love each other even though we can't get along. I think we've done a pretty good job of keeping it to ourselves, out of the family sphere. And it kills me to think that my child may grow up in a broken home, and that I may be absent hereafter.

I wouldn't say I feel a need to cheat and sneak. I feel a need to feel loved, and I'm not getting it where I am, at least not as much as I need. And my wife doesn't seem to have it in her to give me any more. I honestly don't think my needs have changed, but rather her ability to give has diminished over time.

And now fate delivers to me a person who (I think) can give me what I need. Of course, a life with her would not be without its problems, as has already been demonstrated to me, but at this point in my life I now find myself seriously considering the possibility that my current needs outweigh the lifelong commitment I assumed 10 years ago. I know this is terribly unfair to my wife, and I have no idea why this is happening to me.

I also would disagree with your statement that once a cheater, always a cheater. I hope I'm right... I'm not the kind to "sleep around" and I'm not going to hop into bed with the secretary, the neighbor, the babysitter, or anyone who happens to give the green light. What I did was an act of love, with a woman who isn't my wife.

How bad should I feel? So bad that I confess my transgressions? So bad that I can't eat or sleep? So bad that I do myself physical harm? I'm sure that my feelings on the whole matter will evolve over time; this is new to me.

[Sycorax]

I agree that you should try counselling - by yourself if the wife won't go. You say it isn't troubling you, but the fact that you're venting here says a lot. You don't want to lave - understandable - we all get too comfortable and complacent and don't want to rock the boat - even when the boat seems to be sinking. It's hard breaking up any relationship, but especially a 10-year marraige with a child involved. Go get help.

[Imthecowgodmoo]

My step-dad tried to hide his secret woman from my mom. TRIED. He got caught. You WILL get caught if you keep it up. My advice to you if you want to save your marriage is to stop fooling around and work on the one thing you said you would- "honor and obey, til death do you part." I still deal with the pain that my step dad inflicted upon my family. If you do not love your wife, then you must tell her before it gets strechted out any farther. The longer you wait, the more it will hurt. Just one more thing, think about what you have with your wife, and what you have with internet girl. Are you willing to throw away a marriage for a one-night stand?
It's up to you to make the right choice.



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"I'm not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information."
-- Calvin and Hobbes
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[Jodi]

My only concern is that you don't seem to know whether you want to stay or go. It seems to me that you ought to make sure you're off the bridge before you burn it down. I don't know your wife at all, but she deserves better from you than this -- every wife (and husband) does. If you can't do right by her, you ought to have the courage to go; if you can't work up the nerve to go, you ought to do right by her. Simple as that.

[Zyada]

I want you to consider two things I learned from therapy:

A affair during marriage indicates that the marriage has serious underlying problems. And

Your child will learn what is acceptable behavior in a marriage from you and your wife.

You know your marriage has problems. I don't necessarily think you will become a compulsive cheater if you resolve your problems. However, as long as you allow these problems to continue untreated, you will still have the potential for cheating again. I believe that true compulsive cheaters have personal problems that cause them to sabotage the relationships they get into. My grandfather is one like this.

In addition, your child will probably repeat the situation you are in now. If your child is a girl, she will probably marry someone who will cheat on her. If a son, he has a greater potential for cheating on his wife. In addition, your child, boy or girl, will learn that the unhappy relationship you have now with your wife is "normal" and will treat that as an acceptable state if they get into the same situation.

For your sake and your child's sake, resolve your problems now.

I realize that you want to honor the commitment you made when you married - realize that that commitment is not a matter of living in the same house together, it is a vow to nurture and grow a relationship between you.

I also sympathize with your problems regarding getting your wife into marital counseling. My ex-husband and I made a promise to go to our relationship counselor(Richard) before we got a divorce. Well, a year before I filed for divorce, I told him that we needed to see Richard about the argument we were having. He refused, we argued for a month, resolved the initial problem; then he agreed to go. A year later, when he refused to go for another problem, I asked for a divorce. I was not going to be the only person working on the relationship.

Sorry, I had to vent.

Still, you have to try.

Another helpful hint I got from therapy; how to communicate a problem. Try following these steps:
1. Time - is this a good time to have a serious discussion? When is?

2. Want - this is what I would like to get from you.

3. Fear - this is what I am afraid you will do.

4. Problem - this is what is going on.

Get someone who specializes in relationship therapy and go a few times, then ask your wife to go with you.

After all, what is the worst thing that can happen?

[Felinecare]

I feel a need to feel loved, and I'm not getting it where I am, at least not as much as I need. And my wife doesn't seem to have it in her to give me any more. I honestly don't think my needs have changed, but rather her ability to give has diminished over time.

Have you noticed it's all about you?

[Catrandom]

There is one person whose needs are perfectly clear -- your child. He needs you to stay, and to live in his house. He needs you to love his mother. Get counseling, alone and in secret if that's the only way, but do it, and do the right thing.

So this "other woman" is everything you ever dreamed of (she's not, of course, she's got troubles of her own, but let's pretend). Fulfillment gained at the price of that much pain will be joyless if you have any conscience at all, as you obviously do.

Good luck; I hope you work this out.

Catrandom

[Pooch]

Ferrous Wheel,

Your post was a poignant reminder of something that happened to me that I can't begin to talk about. I hope you take posts that you find overly judgmental with a grain of salt.

I don't know the details of your marriage and am not asking for them. I do know what it's like to feel lonely in a marriage. It can drain the life right out of you as it pits you against your commitment and robs you of hope.

You are not condemned because once again you experienced a few precious moments of passion, of being loved. What reason is there to not give you the benefit of the doubt? I read your words and see that you love your wife, that you have been lonely, that you have had an affair, that you felt alive again, and that you are in pain. You will get no banal platitudes or false axioms in this post. It is about you.

I honestly don't think that marriage counseling is an option for us. My wife is the kind of person who would think that it's already over, if it's at the point of seeking counseling. And to be honest, I'm terrified that the counselor would tell us that it's time for both of us to move on, and I'm not ready to face that yet.

Two things. One, if your wife thinks it's already over, it's already over. But that's all speculation. I am adding my voice to the others encourage you to be honest with her. Give her the benefit of the doubt.

The other comment is that even a mildly skilled counselor will not tell you everything's over and that it's time to move on, as you put it. The counselor's job is to listen and guide, not pass judgment or give direct advice. If it's over, a counselor will help you see that for yourself--not send you packing after a session. I'm also adding my voice to the others encouraging counseling. At least ask your wife about it; if she refuses to go as a couple, you can still go on your own.

I want to thank you, meanwhile, for your honesty. I do hope you can approach your wife in the same naked way.

[TubaDiva]

Two things. One, if your wife thinks it's already over, it's already over. But that's all speculation. I am adding my voice to the others encourage you to be honest with her. Give her the benefit of the doubt.

Not to go against the grain here, and nothing personal, Laura, but this, imho, is the WORST thing you could do.

If you tell her that you had an affair, it will devastate her.

YOU, on the other hand, will feel much much better; you've confessed. That burden will be lifted from your shoulders and you'll go on and do whatever it is you're gonna do and she can then deal with the feelings of betrayal and etc. that sort of news always brings. But you'll be free of it, and then it's her problem. That's a really rotten thing to do.

It's probably why you're telling us and not her, at least not yet.

Resist the urge to confess all; at this point, what would be served by it except expiation on your part? You shouldn't get off so easy. . . or be so quick to hurt her.

I know I "should not have" done what I did, and that I was (and continue to be) less than honorable. Yet, I think I would do it again. I don't know, I guess I don't know myself too well any more.'

To the contrary, you know yourself all too well. I know I "should not have" done what I did, and that I was (and continue to be) less than honorable. Yet, I think I would do it again. Don't bullshit us or yourself. You're doing it, buster.

And it kills me to think that my child may grow up in a broken home, and that I may be absent hereafter.

Some people are capable of being good parents even if they aren't good spouses. . . ever heard of shared custody?

But it does sound an awful lot like you're throwing your child over the side . . . after your wife. Which kinda figures, because after all, it's not about them, it's about you and your needs, which are more important than anything else.

I wouldn't say I feel a need to cheat and sneak. I feel a need to feel loved, and I'm not getting it where I am, at least not as much as I need. And my wife doesn't seem to have it in her to give me any more. I honestly don't think my needs have changed, but rather her ability to give has diminished over time.

I would be willing to bet any amount of money that there is not one single person on this message board that has not felt lonely . . . lack of love . . . loss of love. It's part of the human condition. It hurts like nothing else in all the world, that cold ache in the heart. And there's probably no time and place it's the worst than when you lie in a bed beside someone that does not love you or want you.

Love is not a static thing in life; it's ever changing. If you're still looking for that thrill of those early days, you'll never find it with your wife; that's all new love and lust and stuff. It takes work to get beyond what's old and all the thousand little cuts of everyday life to find new love with an old partner.

I don't know if you and your wife can find your way back . . .can search in the ashes of what was and find something worth retrieving . . . the excitement and passion and furtive thrill of new love (and getting away with it!) is so much more of a deal than facing unpleasant home truths and making tough judgement calls.

And now fate delivers to me a person who (I think) can give me what I need. Of course, a life with her would not be without its problems, as has already been demonstrated to me, but at this point in my life I now find myself seriously considering the possibility that my current needs outweigh the lifelong commitment I assumed 10 years ago.

Why is she doing this? She's not acting with much honor either. Is she as needy as you . . . as desperate as you? In it for the thrill? This is what you look for in a life partner?

I know this is terribly unfair to my wife, and I have no idea why this is happening to me.

Unless that other woman kidnapped you from your house and forced herself on you, it's happening because you made it happen. Own your stuff here.

How bad should I feel? So bad that I confess my transgressions? So bad that I can't eat or sleep? So bad that I do myself physical harm?

How bad should you feel? As bad as you feel. Whatever that is. Apparently it's not that bad, it won't keep you from doing it again.

your humble TubaDiva

PS I hate like hell saying all this on a public board, but there's no email for you, so . . . there ya go.

[Neobican]

First off, you need to ignore all the posts that basically tell you what a skunk you are, because I believe you are not. I too, feel the same way as you do, although I have not had sex with another woman. You will not find any sympathy from the female posters, there is no way that they could understand what its like when your marriage becomes nothing more than roomates from a male point of view and that is exactly what it is. I also love my wife, but I do not get the affection in return, much like you described, and the company of another woman sounds very appealing and let me tell you, I told my wife about these feelings without acting on them and as she frequents this board I am sure she will come across this post so I am hiding nothing for all you judgemental people out there.

So here is what I think about your plight. Counseling? Nope. At this point, unless your wife can forgive you, counseling is a waste of time, the reason I say this is you sound like a man who cannot keep such a secret inside and I believe at some point you will tell her. I know you still love her, but are you truly happy? Is she happy? I really wish things will work out for you, but some relationships are better if separated. I have two friends that have a 4 year old girl, they never married and are not romantically involved with each other anymore but they have a great friendship, they go out together and he spends time with his daughter every weekend. The only difference is they don't sleep/live together, and that can make all the difference. Every breakup is painful but it might be the best for both of you, if you stay together for the sake of your child it could be worse, such as the child witnessing daily arguments and no affection between you and your wife. You cannot go on this way, you must either make the effort to stay and that means she must work at it too, if one or both of you cannot do it you might as well give it up because there is no reason for both of you to be miserable, which in turn can affect your child.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for saving relationships, but folks, its not just him. I really dont think you would have done what you did if your marriage was in top form. I think the best place to start without doing any harm would be to ask her what she thinks is wrong, what she wants. Find out why she thinks your marriage is gone and go from there. The other woman sounds like more of a temporary thing, so I would not pursue that until you finish what you started, if you continue it will only get worse and you need to stop and sort out your feelings.

[Stoid]

The error is not so much in having sex with someone else, the error is in the lie, and continuing the lie, and creating this whole other reality for yourself that your wife has nothing to do with. You continue to undermine the relationship, disrespect her, disrespect yourself, etc.

I also have a problem with the fact that it is all about you, and you assume you know what your wife will want, what she will think how she will react. How dare you? And how convenenient. Since you get to play all the parts you get to decide how it will turn out.

If she would react that intensely to learning of your infidelity, that must me she is pretty heavily invested, doesn't it? If she's that invested, it is not unreasonable to assume she's invested enough to seek help.

Whatever you do, quit making all the decisions for BOTH of you in this relationship. If you can't be faithful, adhere to one promise you made: to HONOR her, and there is no honor in being lied to.

Stoid

[sunbear]

This is better than Ann Landers!
But notice that Ferrous Wheel has only 2 posts, the ones right here. Why would someone find this board and not post some trivial stuff first and then come up with the heavy items above? I smell a scam...

[Ferrous Wheel]

Thank you all for your replies and your understanding.

To those of you who say I'm being selfish, you are right. Of course this is about me, because I can only speak for myself. I do my best to summarize my wife's sentiment here, but I am not attempting to show "her side." Obviously this is a problem in a two-person marriage and my wife has her own needs which I'm not meeting. But until she finds her way here and opens up to all of you, I can only talk about my own problems.

Cowgod: That is precisely the quandary. I am NOT willing to throw away my marriage for the "internet girl." I know I'm a coward, by preferring to run myself (and my family) into the ground rather than face up to the truth and set us both free. Even if I mustered up the courage to call things off with the other person, for whom I care dearly, my marriage would still be in bad shape.

The betrayal began well before it was consummated; of this I am fully aware. And on past occasions, when I thought I would stop talking to her and dedicate all my heart to my wife, we have an episode that reminds me just why I strayed in the first place, and why I am considering the need to move on for good.

Sycorax, I know this is troubling me, and that my sharing these intimate details of my life is a telling sign of my internal conflict. I have no excuse, no defense, but I am extremely confused by my feelings.

Catrandom: I do not view the "other woman" as an ideal mate nor as an answer to all my problems. I do not pretend to have a defense against the fact that I acted too early and that I'm hedging. But the deed is done, and that's what I'm trying to work out.

TubaDiva, this woman is motivated by similar needs as mine. She has been through great pain in her life, much greater than I ever will know. And she found in me a person who fulfills her emotional needs. But I really do believe that my problems with my wife exist irrespective of this new person; I am not looking for an ideal mate to supplant my wife, and even if I were, "she" would probably not be such. But I can't stop loving her - and not for lack of trying.

I am not trying to disassociate or distance myself from MY actions and MY problems. I try to put some thought into my words; yet this forum is a first step for me, I am typing as the thoughts come to mind. If it sounds like I am removing myself from the inherent responsibility for my own life, I apologize. I am painfully aware that this is my situation into which I've gotten myself.

Sunbear, this is not a scam. I can understand why you'd think so, but it's not.

[gypsy]

Been there done that...it is not easy, and never will be. You have to tell your wife what is going on, because I guarantee you will get caught. Hurt that she will feel is going to be so much worse you know! Also you have to think of your child. Contrary what someone else said,it is not neccesarily good for the little one if you stay in the bad marriage. Your child is so much more preceptive than you give him/her credit for. S/he no doubt knows already that there is trouble in paradise
Okay, my advise....make up your mind what you want, and for heavens sake come clean about what you have done. Regardless what happens your wife needs to know what you have done.

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Unforgiven

[TubaDiva]

this woman is motivated by similar needs as mine. She has been through great pain in her life, much greater than I ever will know. And she found in me a person who fulfills her emotional needs. But I really do believe that my problems with my wife exist irrespective of this new person; I am not looking for an ideal mate to supplant my wife, and even if I were, "she" would probably not be such. But I can't stop loving her - and not for lack of trying.

Online life is not the same as real life, even though it feels like it in a lot of ways -- and in some things even better than real life.

Mostly you're sitting at home or at work, someplace known and comfortable, you have all your litte things about you . . . and you're writing/talking to someone you know. It's close, cozy . . . intimate. While at the same time, it's a step removed from seeing somebody face to face, so it's also safer. Instead of making it less intimate, it tends to make it more so, it loosens inhibitions. And it feels good, especially if you're gonna turn off the computer and go lie down in a loveless bed.

And that's how people start out being friends and wind up being lovers.

But it's not real . . .even though it feels all too real. And for someone dying in the dry desert of a loveless life, it's only natural to fall face down in it and wallow around in it, it's so good.

But it's not real; it's fantasy. It's got some of the landmarks of your real life, but none of the responsibilities. That's part of the fantasy too.

It's easier and more pleasant to run with this fantasy than it is to look at your life and make substantive changes.

I'm not saying these things to be judgemental or to be ugly . . . just stating some facts.

You might even think that this is a good thing in your life, a little sweetness in a lot of misery. But you're actually adding to your pain. There is no way to solve this situation and make everybody happy; regardless of your choice, you will be directly causing someone great pain -- and yourself as well. Break your wife's heart, break your lover's heart, which will it be? That's a no win situation for all of you.

your humble TubaDiva

Never, EVER stay married "for the child's sake." A child is MUCH better off with two happily divorced parents than living within an unhappy, grim, tense home. I don't know why people seem to think a child is better off with two fighting, unhappy, sulking parents who pile guilt on the poor kid, staying together and ruining their lives "just for YOU, darling!"

[Shirley Ujest]

It sounds like that the marriage is over but you are deathly afraid of change or having anyone have poor feelings about you. Do you think that your wife or child won't find out about this affair? If you are staying together for the sake of your child, then everyone's lives for the next ten to fifteen years will be a sham. You're child deserves better than that.

If you are feeling so empty in your marriage, how do you think your wife feels?

Try a counselor or therapist, if your wife won't go, then go alone. It can only help you see what is eating you inside and help you let go of the past and make a fresh start.

[Sassy]

Don't stay for the child...

"it's better to come from a broken home than to live in one."

I know from experience.

Not to go against the grain here, and nothing personal, Laura, but this, imho, is the WORST thing you could do...If you tell her that you had an affair, it will devastate her...YOU, on the other hand, will feel much much better; you've confessed.

I truly believe this varies with the situation. This is the kind of debate (telling vs. not telling) that has excellent points on both sides; however, I lean toward the honesty and telling all camp.

However, that is in ideal circumstances. I know that I, personally, would want to know if Brian cheated on me, rather than it become a secret that could possibly drive a wedge between us. Tubadiva, you've made excellent points that I agree with, if circumstances are as you suggest. If he wants to tell her simply to clear his own conscience, it's selfish and useless and would indeed only exacerbate the problem, rather than heal it. Yet, if he tells her in humble apology and grief (which I do not believe he currently feels), it's far more honoring of her. It does not seem to be where Ferrous currently stands, and thus, telling her at this point would be of limited benefit.

I speak from only the weakest relevant experience; my boyfriend (of two years, come tomorrow! ) struggled with a true addiction to porn, strip clubs, etc. a few years ago. It was more or less resolved/conquered by the time we began dating; however, he had a "relapse" during an extremely stressful time in his life. He tearfully confessed to me what had happened within two days. He explained that he couldn't not tell me--he loved and respected me too much, and he felt it was owed to me.

I know the story isn't really a fair comparison--there was no emotional involvement with another woman, no dissatisfaction in our personal relationship, etc.--so please don't assume I'm trying to draw direct parallels to a drastically more complicated (and painful) situation. I value honestly and openness so much in any of my relationships, nonetheless what I anticipate in a marital relationship, that I cannot help but express that preference.

As I've been reading and following along, however, I've become aware that how this is best handled is completely subjective based on the people involved. Ferrous sounds like he has a problematic relationship with his wife, to say the least, so what's best to do is nearly impossible to discern from this end. (Then again, I don't necessarily think he was asking for advice...his raw post seems more like a need to share than anything else.)

BTW, Tuba, I agree with you 100% on the internet relationship's escapism. It's simply sad. I recognize there are always exceptions, but a majority of the time, they're unhealthy and short-lived.

Also...I understand why some people may smell a scam, but personally, I believe he is a reg simply using a new screenname for anonymity's sake. Quite understandable.

[sunbear]

Ferrous: OK so you are not a scam. How did you find this board all of a sudden, when you needed to unload?

[TubaDiva]

He's most likely one of us, Sunbear.

It's actually a compliment to the community; who can you go to if not your friends?

Let's respect his desire for anonymity, for exactly who this might be is not that important. He's a fellow human being with a problem, that's enough.

BTW, if I have sounded judgmental or ugly, neither was my intention.

your humble TubaDiva

[kayT]

Isn't anyone at all concerned about what diseases this man may be bringing home to his wife? Get real people, this is the new age of terminal results from one night stands. How can he not tell her and then go get tested???

[Ferrous Wheel]

I tell only because I was asked... I'm one of you, as TubaDiva and Laura Rae have concluded.

I don't plan on telling my wife. I know that would not do anything constructive, at least not at this point.

No Laura, I did not place this post to get advice, although the support here has been very helpful. I have no one to talk to, it's not the kind of thing I can ask Mom or Sister about.

And for me, it's not a question of should I leave my wife or not. That will or won't happen as our situation warrants. I guess I created the post out of a need to say SOMETHING to SOMEONE.

Yes, my marriage is problematic. We have good times too, but short-lived ones, and that's how it's been as long as we've been married. I used to think, too bad for me, and that I'd just live with it. But now, I can't say that. I got myself into quite a predicament, and someone if not everyone is going to be terribly hurt.

I think that if I were able to call things off with the other person, it would have no immediate effect on my marriage. I would probably just bury the experience deep into my mind and leave it there forever.

Tuba, I did not infer any judgment from your posts. I appreciate your sternness and objectivity. If I may, the only quarrel I'd offer to your words is where you ask if this is the kind of woman I want to be with, referring to someone who gets involved with a married man. I can't argue with that logic - if I'm reading you correctly - "how can I love someone who would love someone like me?"

Kay, you are right. I did not think about health issues, mine or my family's, in a moment of passion. I have no excuse for this.

[handy]

Well, if you don't tell your wife and you come down with some sort of VD & you give it to your wife, then isn't it true you have not given her the choice on whether she wanted to risk getting something?

[Ferrous Wheel]

You are right handy. All in all what I did was selfish, I have nothing to offer in my defense.

[TubaDiva]

If I may, the only quarrel I'd offer to your words is where you ask if this is the kind of woman I want to be with, referring to someone who gets involved with a married man. I can't argue with that logic - if I'm reading you correctly - "how can I love someone who would love someone like me?"

That's not at all what I meant, but it's illuminating as to how you think of her. You may love her, but you don't respect her, and that is fatal for any relationship.

But it's already been established that none of this is about her anyway, it's all about you -- and now we can add "lack of self esteem" to the list. I guess nobody worthwhile would care for you, right?

I'll repeat something I wrote earlier: "When you come from the hunger place, you will not make good choices."

This is true for both of you.

She's so hungry that she will settle for what she can get -- she's getting crumbs of love off your marriage table and she's trying to make a meal out of it. And you are so hungry to get your needs met that you will do whatever it takes to get that happening, regardless of the consequences to any of you.

I appreciate your sternness and objectivity.

It's not that I'm stern, but that this situation has such absolutes. There's not a lot of grey areas here; it's right and wrong and you got the choice to do either one.

And no, I'm not objective, either. And I'll even tell you why: because I know what this is like from the darkest place in my soul -- and I would not wish this pain on another human being. I hope I have learned from my experiences -- and if I can save one other person from what I went through, then I've done a good thing and maybe even balanced those karmic scales a little better.

Of course, we never learn anything from the suffering of others, but I wanted to try, just the same.

your humble TubaDiva

[Sycorax]

I know everyone is trying to be helpful, but the very first step is counselling - you have to work through it yourself, with the help of a professional, and figure out what it is you want/need, and what is best for everyone involved.

[Ferrous Wheel]

TubaDiva (may I call you Tuba?):

I'm sorry if I misunderstood your earlier post, but I was reading your words, not mine. I do not lack respect for her, but rather I thought that that's what you were implying. And while I feel bad for what I have done and am doing, I would hardly say that "no one worthwhile would care for me." Fidelity is obviously stricken from my list of attributes, though I do not view myself so harshly.

As for what motivates her, I can only say as much as I know. Is she settling for the crumbs of my marriage? I doubt it. Is she getting less than she deserves? Absolutely.

I refer to Gail's post of a few months back, and the several replies analyzing the likely motivations of Gail's friend. When I read that, I thought, you can pick apart even the healthiest relationships and empirically determine what motivates the people involved. And when you do that, no matter how sincere the love, it sounds cheaper and flimsier than it is. To say that Gail's friend is "looking for someone he can care for" and Gail is a likely target because of her present situation, is to minimize the man's sincerity and Gail's personal worth. He loves her for who she is and for how she makes him feel, not unlike how most relationships begin.

But I digress. Does my friend love me because the little I can give her is more than she's ever known? Could be. But I would prefer to think of it in these terms: she appreciates me and what I can give. If I am wrong to put "feeling appreciated" high on my list of personal needs, then judge me so.

Thank you TubaDiva for your continued understanding, this is more helpful than you can imagine.

Please close this thread and give some attention and pity to someone who deserves it!!

[Ferrous Wheel]

Here's the link to the Gail post, which I failed to include above.

http://www.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000203.html

[elbow]

Cheating is the word here. You are cheating yourself mostly. Firstly you need to own up to these actions as choices, not wise ones, but choices none the less. As long as you rationalize away at causes and reasons, you miss the point. You made this choice. And the choice you have made is robbing you of your integrity. I'm sure your marriage is in trouble but you first need to know you made a choice here. Secondly you need to recognise that you and this second woman are definitely cheating each other by not offering up the best of what you are. That's the one thing that always ends these sorts of illicit affairs. You are hobbling yourselves. It is rudely unhealthy and as you appear to be an intelligent being you are aware of all of this. Show shut up and own up and grow up, you know what you are doing, and you know it's unhealthy, and you know it's your choice. Get over yourself and start applying your intellect.

[kellibelli]

I have to say something, based on personal experience, and I'll be brief.

1)If you tell her, it is over,even if you work things out, she will forever wonder if you are thinking of the internet slut while you bounce on top of her.

2) If you continue this type of behavior, you endanger her life-HER LIFE!!For the love of god, use a condom!!!

3) I dont get the impression that the home is unhappy or grim, and that your child will be damaged if you zip up and shut up...if you leave, you better be prepared for what this will do to junior...do some research.

4) me, me, me...you have responsibilities, a family, so what if you arent totally happy, or sublimely fufilled...suck it up you sniveler! It would be a refreshing change to see a man commit, and then STICK to it!

5) you say its not just sex...you have feelings for this woman...what kind of woman starts a relationship on the INTERNET???and with a married man with a child...

you sicken me.
there is nothing, NOTHING worse than having unprotected sex with your skank...(you dont know her history, she has undoubtedly done this many times before, you sucker!) and then bringing your dirty dink home to your clean wife.
how would you feel if you gave her a big tongue kiss tomorrow, and she smiles and asks "So, how did he taste?"

Stop cheating, logoff cheaters.com, and be a man.

[barton]

Hmm. I'll try the advice thing, too. Why not?

Telling her is pointless and cruel. Lose the lover, though, quickly, before she finds out.

Attempt to rekindle the romance. Take her out to dinner, go on vacation, woo her like you're teenagers, make out in the theatre or something. Keep trying. If it works, your problem is solved.

If this doesn't work after a few months of constant effort on your part, divorce her. It's the best thing you can do for her, the kid, and yourself. Do this while making sure you remain a part of your kid's life and that she can support them comfortably.

[Gail]

Since my post from last May was mentioned, I feel obliged to reply.
I believe that the temptation to cheat comes from problems in the marriage almost always. There are guys (and girls) who can't be faithful no matter how good they have it but they are probably in the minority.
I used to believe it would be easy to be faithful. I suppose that has to do with my chronically low self-esteem. I figured, I'd never be tempted because when I was available, guys weren't exactly lining up at my doorstep.
So anyway--people say they can't be tempted but now I know differently---I believe anybody can be tempted. And I can't be too self-righteous when I read about Ferrous' situation.
Also--the guy that I had (still have) a crush on. I think he liked me because I was the opposite of his wife. She is a native of Japan and very subservient. But I was always pretty spunky and opinionated.
And I havent' seen the guy in over a month--we went to a movie in July and he brought his mom. (What was that all about?)
I've recently posted in Why do you stay also in MPSIMS for anyone who would like more details.

------------------
Gail
"Any major dude with half a heart surely will tell you, my friend--
Any minor world that breaks apart falls together again...."
-Steely Dan

[Zyada]

me, me, me...you have responsibilities, a family, so what if you arent totally happy, or sublimely fufilled...suck it up you sniveler! It would be a refreshing change to see a man commit, and then STICK to it!

kelli - you do not know enough about Ferrous's marriage to condemn him this way.

Quite frankly, last year I described my marriage in the exact same terms as he did. I was not getting enough love and support from my husband. At this point, as far as you know that could mean anything from me getting daily beatings to him not buying me the Jaguar I wanted. In my situation, one concrete example of the problems in our relationship was that two weeks after my father died he expected me to be his perenially happy playmate and was upset that I was still unhappy. His response to my grief was that I needed to see a therapist to get over it!

Commitment is very important in a marriage and often tolerance has to be exercised to nurture a relationship; however, you can tolerate too much.

As I told people after my divorce, there's a fine and hard to see line between a good relationship with to be expected bad times, and a bad relationship with bright spots. Ferrous Wheel is trying to decide what side of the line he is on, and I will tell you - it's one of the most painful things anyone can work through.

Ferrous - for what it's worth, you have my support.

Also fwiw, your situation sounds remarkably like mine before my divorce. Not only because of the lack of love; I also had the experience of episodes "that reminds me ... why I am considering the need to move on for good" occurring just when I was ready to resolve problems and recommit to my marriage. In my situation, I believe that my husband could not handle a major change in our life that we had agreed & started on. Instead of resolving this problem, he kept starting arguments to avoid the main issue. This is called passive aggression.

Someone has said that a counselor will not help. This is foolish - if nothing else, a counselor will give you information and insights into your relationship with your wife that will help you get off the ferris wheel you're on now.

[Zulu]

As a child from a 'broken home' I'd like to add my opinion.

Staying together for the child is not the right thing to do. My parents tried that for 5 years, and for my sister and I, it was the worst 5 years of our lives. They tried the counselling thing. Our home was more broken in those 5 years, and the 4 years it then took to settle the divorce (which was very nasty), than it was after.

Since the divorce, my father has moved on and is now with a wonderful woman. My mother is happier. My father is happier. We don't have the constant underlying tension anymore. Life is good now. We're all so much happier, and our lives, individually and as a family, have improved.

I'm not saying that separation/divorce is the answer, but in our case it was the best thing that could've happened.

My father always made sure that he was a part of our lives, despite my mother's bitterness. She did everything she could to keep us apart, and tried to put the idea in our heads that he was a bad man. He wouldn't stand to be shut out by our mother, and he fought in court to keep joint custody. He never missed a weekend, he never put us off for anything, and he's always been a wonderful, devoted father. And as a result, I'm closer with my father now than I ever was before. I've found this is true with most of my acquaintences that have been through the same situation.

Split homes are sometimes the most stable ones around where the child is concerned.

Zulu

[Gazelle]

Wow, what a tough subject.

I've been married for 10 years too. No kids. We're at a rough spot in our marriage - nothing traumatic, just too much to do and too little money, not enough work on our marriage. I've definitely been tempted to cheat but have not given in to the urge.

My husband has vehement opinions on cheating - if I ever cheated, it would be over. If he ever cheated, he would not be the man that I married. It would be over. Period.

We both know we have problems and are talking them out... Counseling is an option that we have not yet explored but are willing to, if the time comes. In the meantime, I'm reading a highly recommended book, Fighting for Your Marriage by Howard Markman, Scott Stanley and Susan L. Blumberg. I'm not far enough into it to give my own opinion.

Ferrous Wheel, you sound like you're more scared of counseling than you are of your marriage ending. Take the chance that your wife will want to go with you. Ask her. Tell her how serious you are about your problems and that you think a counselor can help. I think you'll find that she needs you as much as you need her, no matter how she acts. She's probably not as ready to give it all up as you think she is.

I sincerely hope that everything works out for all three of you.

[Zyada]

One more post...

Whenever a relationship has problems, both people are doing something wrong. If you determine what you are doing wrong, you have the possibility of restoring your marriage. If you don't know what you are doing wrong and don't make an effort to change, even if you divorce your wife, your next relationship will be the same as this one.

[callslugger]

My dad did the same thing and I am only 15, I found all of his crap, so basically i am very mad at him , and i think i always will be. What you two need to do is go to Family Counseling, or therapy, I HAVE to go i guess they are doing better, seeing as i the daughter had to tell my mother.

[Wesley Clark]

i hope your wife doesn't know you post here. That could be pretty bad.

[GingerOfTheNorth]

callslugger, it is frowned upon to bump up old threads like this.

[callslugger]

Originally Posted by GingerOfTheNorth

callslugger, it is frowned upon to bump up old threads like this.

why?

[kambuckta]

Wow.

Talk about a Resurrection.

The OP was posted 4.5 years ago, and seeing as the OP'er still only has 9 posts to his name, I wouldn't worry to much about his wife finding out Wesley Clark

[callslugger]

But why is it bad to "resurrect" old posts?

[Lissla Lissar]

It clogs up the all-too-limited bandwidth with very old material. The hamsters die, and then the Board breaks on us again.