Snake Handling: Cecil Left Some Stuff Out

[HeyHomie]

Cecil did a fine job of explaining the phenomenon of snake handling, but he left some important information out.

First, the passage to which he refers, Mark 16:17-18, and indeed most or all of Mark 16 (I can't give the reference for sure; don't have my Bible with me), is itself a matter of debate among Biblical scholars. The linear notes to the New International Version state that this entire passage does not exist in the earliest and best available manuscripts. Presumably, it was added by a later scribe (and thus it was not a part of Matthew's original autograph). The passage is included in the King James Version with no annotation of any kind, and to those who believe in "King James Only" it is as much a part of Holy Scripture as John 3:16. (If you want to debate about the whole "King James Only" controversy, please open up your own thread in GD).

So how did this passage makes its way into the KJV? Rastahomie's theory (some day I'm going to publish a paper about this and make a ton of money) is that a scribe (we'll call him Scribe A) in early Christian history read the passage in Acts (again, can't provide the reference) where Paul is bitten by a viper and suffers no ill effects, and then decided to write a commentary on it. The next scribe to copy Scribe A's work copies Scribe A's commentary, and then the commentary is copied and re-copied until Erasmus compiles the KJV.

Finally, a word on snake-handling itself. While I find the whole practice repulsive and believe that it puts a black eye on Christianity, a surprising number of people are bitten and live to tell about it. How they pull this off is a matter of considerable debate, but I believe that mind over matter certainly has to play a role.

My $.02 (actually, I think this post is worth at least $.04!).

[Earl Snake-Hips Tucker]

Just to add in a few more cents:

The original Greek word for "take up" has multiple meanings. One of the other meanings is "put away" or something like that, so it could be construed as "being able to drive out serpents," which are always viewed as evil.

IMHO, the context of the passage doesn't lend itself to that interpretation, but I have heard ministers (Jimmy Swaggart, no less!) use that to cast aspersions on snake-handlers.

[Irishman]

From Rastahomie:

... a surprising number of people are bitten and live to tell about it. How they pull this off is a matter of considerable debate, but I believe that mind over matter certainly has to play a role.

No real mystery here. Snake bites don't necessarily always kill you. Snake can control how much venom it releases. That's not to say I want to go playing with snakes to prove it.

[C K Dexter Haven]

References to snakes in the Biblical texts are by no means confined to the Matthew comments. Obvious Old Testament references: the early Genesis story (serpent psyches Eve) and Moses has a brass serpent placed on the end of a staff to drive away snakes in the wilderness.

[{:-Df]

Seems to me that, from the point of view of Simple Tests For Finding the Saved (aka You're Not a REAL Christian and I Can Prove It), the real sticky situation exists not with the snakes but in the "if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them" test. I mean, talk about a reason for switching to the "soft," Bible-As-Metaphor sects!

On the other hand, anyone who does drink "any deadly thing" and lives would certainly have earned the right to act holier than thou - or me, anyway - the hard way. (And would that then mean, for example, that the Serbian(?) anarchist who shot Archduke Ferdinand and allegedly survived a massive dose of cyanide would now be a probable-saint from that perspective?)

[Lumpy]

Apparently the whole idea behind the Pentacostal "charismatic" movement is the idea that if you're a real Christian, the Holy Spirit will grant you miraculous power. However according to 1 Corinthians 13:8 (Living Bible paraphrased):

"All the special gifts and powers from God will someday come to and end, but love goes on forever. Someday prophecy, and speaking in unknown languages, and special knowledge- these gifts will disappear."

Plus there's the fact that if you survive being snakebitten, you often have a degree of immunity to the venon of that snake species. 'Nuf said.

[Shadenwawa]

Just cause its kind of relevant, and i think its cool anyways, I want to point out that Bruce Hornsby sings about this practice on his new(est) album, "Spirit Trail", songs "Preacher in the Ring I & II".

its a great album, but one line comes to mind here:
"Woah no, woah no, i can't get with this here I know... Never seen nothing like this before..."

[Studi]

Nowadays, of course, they just show off. Many of these Christian groups no longer even handle live snakes, as many simply drink very large, normally fatal amounts of strychnine right out of a bottle.



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"I may not be smart, but I can tell chicken shit from chicken salad."

- Lyndon Johnson

[Irishman]

from Studi:

Nowadays, of course, they just show off. Many of these Christian groups no longer even handle live snakes, as many simply drink very large, normally fatal amounts of strychnine right out of a bottle.

First, there are still groups (mainly in rural Alabama) that handle snakes. There was a story on one of those TV news programs about a child custody case recently.

Regarding drinking fatal amounts of strychnine, I'd like to see that investigated. I won't rule it out, but I suspect they don't drink the high octane stuff their first time. Rather, it's a slow build up of tolerance.

One such example, a man who daily drinks rattlesnake venom, supposedly to ward off colds. He is immune to rattlesnake bites, and his blood has been used for anti-venom. Of course he started with very small doses.

[Arnold Winkelried]

The column being referred to is, of course, Does the Bible tell people to handle snakes? (07-Jan-2000)

A very interesting book on snake-handling sects -- written by a journalist who is positive toward the experience -- is Salvation on Sand Mountain by Dennis Covington.

Points made above in the thread are valid; however, I would add that

1.) the litmus test for real Christianity seems to be a transformed life... not works. Transformed how? Increasing holiness and increasing love. I take that to mean more humility about my faults (see Ps. 19) and less judgmentalism toward others.

2.) God does do miraculous works today through believers but it appears that the majority of these works are for the sake of reaching unbelievers. Paul was on the mission field reaching people only he could reach when God circumvented the poison in the snake. It was never a testemony to Paul's worthiness and if I'm ever fortunate enough to be the conduit of a miracle, it won't have anything to do with my worthiness either. And, it will probably be in the jungle of some 3rd world country without a T.V. crew for miles! : )

[Liberal]

The verse in question is Mark 16:18. Transliterated Greek with intralinear English and Strong's references:

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They shall take up [142] (airo) (5692) serpents [3789]; (ophis) and if [2579] (kan) they drink [4095] (pino) (5632) any [5100] (tis) [0] (Special Co) deadly [2286] (thanasimos) thing [5100], (tis)
it shall not [3364] (ou me) hurt [984] (blapto) (5692) them [846]; (autos) they shall lay [2007] (epitithemi) (5692) hands [5495] (cheir) on [1909] (epi) the sick [732], (arrhostos) and [2532] (kai) they shall [2192] (echo) (5692) recover [2573] (kalos).

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The word in question is Strong's 142, airo.

These are Strong's etymologies:

142 airo {ah'-ee-ro}

a primary root; TDNT - 1:185,28; v

AV - take up 32, take away 25, take 25, away with 5, lift up 4, bear 3, misc 8; 102

1) to raise up, elevate, lift up
1a) to raise from the ground, take up: stones
1b) to raise upwards, elevate, lift up: the hand
1c) to draw up: a fish
2) to take upon one's self and carry what has been raised up, to bear
3) to bear away what has been raised, carry off
3a) to move from its place
3b) to take off or away what is attached to anything
3c) to remove
3d) to carry off, carry away with one
3e) to appropriate what is taken
3f) to take away from another what is his or what is committed
to him, to take by force
3g) to take and apply to any use
3h) to take from among the living, either by a natural death, or by violence
3i) cause to cease

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There are 110 instances of airo in the NT, including the following:

Mat 9:16 [1161] No man [3762] putteth [1911] (5719) a piece [1915] of new [46] cloth [4470] unto [1909] an old [3820] garment [2440], for [1063] that which is put in to fill it up [4138] taketh [142] (5719) [846] from [575] the garment [2440], and [2532] the rent [4978] is made [1096] (5736) worse [5501].

Mat 11:29 Take [142] (5657) my [3450] yoke [2218] upon [1909] you [5209], and [2532] learn [3129] (5628) of [575] me [1700]; for [3754] I am [1510] (5748) meek [4235] and [2532] lowly [5011] in heart [2588]: and [2532] ye shall find [2147] (5692) rest [372] unto your [5216] souls [5590].

Mat 13:12 For [1063] whosoever [3748] hath [2192] (5719), to him [846] shall be given [1325] (5701), and [2532] he shall have more abundance [4052] (5701): but [1161] whosoever [3748] hath [2192] (5719) not [3756], from [575] him [846] shall be taken away [142] (5701) even [2532] that [3739] he hath [2192] (5719).

and Mat 27:32 And [1161] as they came out [1831] (5740), they found [2147] (5627) a man [444] of Cyrene [2956], Simon [4613] by name [3686]: him [5126] they compelled [29] (5656) to [2443] bear [142] (5661) his [846] cross [4716].

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There is also a companion verse in Luke.

Luk 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

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"It is lucky for rulers that men do not think." — Adolf Hitler

[KeithB]

I think the *definitive* song about this came from Tonio K, from his (IMHO) brilliant "Romeo Unchained" Album from the mid eighties. (Other cuts from the album got airplay on KROQ, the LA Alternative rock station.)

To wit:

I Handle Snakes

It's my life
It's my decision
It's my idea of a good time
It's my religion
I don't make no sudden movements
Can't afford to make mistakes
I'm a fearless man
I handle snakes

The Lord of Hosts
Has got to like me
Else this thing here
Would surely strike me
One man lays down 10 percent
Another trembles and quakes
I save my money
I handle snakes

I handle snakes
I hug 'em and I kiss 'em
I handle snakes
and if they kill me
I'll sure miss them
I handle snakes
I love it when they listen
Listen
I handle snakes
And if they kill me I'm sure gonna miss 'em

'Cause it's my life
It's my idea of a good time
It's my religion
However
I don't say "Hallelujah"
I don't even say grace
But I make my statement
I say it with snakes

[John W. Kennedy]

Whatever happened to "You must not put your Lord God to the test?"

Pfaugh!

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John W. Kennedy
"Compact is becoming contract; man only earns and pays."
-- Charles Williams

[KeithB]

John:
That went out with Gideon and Hezekiah.

[Myron Van Horowitzski]

RE:

anarchist who shot Archduke Ferdinand and allegedly survived a massive dose of cyanide

The conspirators all carried cyanide pills. The pills were old and only made them sick.

One took his pill and jumped into a nearby canal. The madding crowd pulled him out as he was horking his guts out in the canal, which was only ankle deep. The Three Stooges could have done it better.

[Kyberneticist]

Libertarian was using www.biblestudytools.net. Two of the Bible versions listed include Strong's numbers.

Irishman, I think the person was joking - although it is possible to build up a tolerance to poisons, I think strychnine works by binding to nervous system receptors, bringing on asphyxia.
Perhaps artificial resuscitation and an iron lung might help?

[lvick]

Didn't someone once say "those who exalt themselves shall be humbled."

[Irishman]

I figured it out. They're using homeopathic strychnine.

[Liberal]

Actually, I was using www.khouse.org/blueletter/

[dougie_monty]

I agree with John W. Kennedy. "Dont' push your luck with God."
The last 12 verses in the KJV don't appear in the oldest manuscripts--some of which were not discovered, or unavailable, when the King James Version was being translated.
Besides, in 1 Corinthians Paul pointed out that the "special gifts" early Christians had would vanish. Indeed, just becausue Jesus himself resurrected Lazarus, among others, from the dead, that did not make everyone believe him--and I doubt that, these days, handling snakes with impunity would make people believe in him, either--if they did not want to be convinced.