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  #1  
Old 07-26-2002, 11:07 AM
bernse bernse is offline
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Is this kind of porno legal?

Mods - I am going to go about this without giving links or getting "too" graphic... so here goes..... but if it is "too much" for GQ could you please move it to a forum that you think would be more appropriate?

While doing a little bit of "surfing" the other night, I came across a website that advertised pictures of "amateurs" doing various, ahem, activities. It was a link from a free website, so I checked it out.

The basics of the site are this: They show you about 30 pics/"stills" from a video and a short free "teaser" from the movie that you can pay for and watch the whole thing. The "teaser" is about a minute long. As an aside, why anyone would PAY for porn on the net is beyond me

The problem I have with it is "how they get" their "actresses."

The background as I understand it is this. The "company" puts ads in a paper for "models" and young ladies come for an "interview."

These women come into a office (which looks like some backroom somewhere) and meet this guy (you never see his face) and he begins to interview them. Asks a few basic questions like if they've modeled before and so forth. He then starts to say the job involves nudity so they need to take off their tops. Most object of course, but he starts yelling at them to do it. They comply. He then tells them to take off their panties. The women are visibly concerned by this time but he yells at them again and they comply. He then gets them to go down on him, and once again it repeats itself. He then fucks them. One of the few video "samples" that I saw the woman was especially visibly in distress while doing this but of course, the guy didn't stop.... to me, it looked like borderline rape.

So, anyhow. The question is this. Since these women are (or at least) appear to be adults, is this legal? He doesn't seem to force anyone in the sense that he didn't appear to grab/hit/threaten physically, but is very stern verbally. A couple of times he could be heard saying along the lines "Look, the door is RIGHT FUCKING THERE." Would that be his way out of any charge? It appears to be in the US (from the looks/clothing of the women) but the guy has what sounds like a Russian accent.

To get a couple of things cleared up: I am very, very certain this isn't set up. These women looked to be extremely suprised and shocked. Most would ask when they walk in the room why there was a camera running (at which he would say sometimes "I ASK THE QUESTIONS HERE!") etc. I really don't believe they are acting.

The site was a very polished site and is affiliated with some other "very well known" websites.

Just in poor taste or illegal?
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  #2  
Old 07-26-2002, 11:34 AM
Kamandi Kamandi is offline
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Re: Is this kind of porno legal?

Quote:
Originally posted by bernse
To get a couple of things cleared up: I am very, very certain this isn't set up. These women looked to be extremely suprised and shocked. Most would ask when they walk in the room why there was a camera running (at which he would say sometimes "I ASK THE QUESTIONS HERE!") etc. I really don't believe they are acting.
Are you interested in purchasing this bridge I've got on the market?

Seriously, there are two ways they could legally go about it (I think):

1. The women are acting. Sorry, I know you think they're not, but this is what actors do, after all.

2. The women are not acting. They really are gullible/weak/greedy/desperate enough to strip and go down on some sleazy film "producer" because he demanded it. But after the "scene" was finished and the camera was turned off, the producer came clean, told them it was all a setup for the hidden camera and offered them a bunch of money to let him use the footage. The women you saw signed a release and took their check. You probably didn't see the women who refused to sign.
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  #3  
Old 07-26-2002, 01:01 PM
Alereon Alereon is offline
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I'm of the opinion that these women are actors. The sheer volume of women involved dwarfs what, in my mind, you could get by genuinely attempting to manipulate women into having sex. Not to mention that, at least in what I've seen, the man involved is quite obviously holding a hand-held camera. I also noticed that the actresses "play for the camera" fairly often, which I doubt a real woman (one not being paid a pre-agreed-upon sum for a performance) in such a situation would do, even if she were to allow the act to be filmed.
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Old 07-26-2002, 01:17 PM
bernse bernse is offline
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Oh man, I really wish I could post the links. I've seen some pretty nasty stuff in my time and I'm not very niave. I still don't believe that they were acting. I honestly don't think that anyone seeing some of these scenes would believe they were, either.

I'd maybe be willing to go with your #2, Kamandi.

Keep the bridge, though.
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  #5  
Old 07-26-2002, 01:42 PM
FlyingDragonFan FlyingDragonFan is offline
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I can't speak for the OP's particular site, but there's another similar one with three guys driving around in a van, picking up random women off the street with promises of money, and then either doing the deed right there in the van as they drive around on what looks like I-75 through the Everglades, or going back to an apartment. I hang out in a light fetish scene down here, and I've seen at least three of those women participating in the events we have here. Now, of course that could be coincidence, but it seems likely that at least some of the women are hired in advance, and simply acting. I know that at least one of those three girls is not in the profession that she professes to be in the video.
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  #6  
Old 07-26-2002, 01:48 PM
Gjorp Gjorp is offline
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If we did go with #2, what about the women who didn't agree to the deal? I mean, what was described counts as rape. Of course, if the girl didn't agree, the video evidence would be immediately deleted, but the man could still be taken to court.

But, then again, this may be in a foreign country where laws are different.
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  #7  
Old 07-26-2002, 02:03 PM
Alereon Alereon is offline
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As I recall, there were videos of "rejections," where the girls basically said "Screw you, jerk!" and walked out. These, again, seemed staged to me, but if we're assuming the entire endeavor is for real...I don't think there's a law that says you have to be happy about having sex. If you don't like what's going on, you can get up and leave. If you don't, it's your call. If the man involved physically prevented them from leaving or FORCED them to have sex, that would obviously be rape, but I've never seen anything close to that (nor care to), nor do I hear of it in bernse's description.
Quote:
He doesn't seem to force anyone in the sense that he didn't appear to grab/hit/threaten physically, but is very stern verbally. A couple of times he could be heard saying along the lines "Look, the door is RIGHT FUCKING THERE."
If the women involved do it of their own free will, which is what I believe is described in that quote, it's not rape.
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  #8  
Old 07-26-2002, 02:14 PM
Kamandi Kamandi is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gjorp
If we did go with #2, what about the women who didn't agree to the deal? I mean, what was described counts as rape. Of course, if the girl didn't agree, the video evidence would be immediately deleted, but the man could still be taken to court.
Whether or not they agree to release the film afterward has no bearing on their agreement (or not) to do the acts in the first place. The camera was in full view of the women. Openly filming a transaction in your own place of business is not illegal. However, selling the footage without consent of all the parties involved is a no-no.

I admittely haven't seen any of these things, but from bernse's description, all of the women agreed to do the things they did. Sure, there was verbal coercion, but it doesn't sound like any of them were physically forced or drugged:
Quote:
He doesn't seem to force anyone in the sense that he didn't appear to grab/hit/threaten physically, but is very stern verbally. A couple of times he could be heard saying along the lines "Look, the door is RIGHT FUCKING THERE."
They weren't held captive. That's not rape, is it?
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  #9  
Old 07-26-2002, 02:53 PM
Papermache Prince Papermache Prince is offline
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My guess would be that all the situations above involve acting, paid for in advance. Consider the economics - in one case you have three guys in a van, picking up a woman hired for the purpose of making a porn movie, taking perhaps one day to film, edit, etc. Versus time spent driving around trying to pick up a subject - who might have a cell phone and might call the police or an angry boy friend. At best, you lose whatever time it takes to explain the situation to the police or the boyfriend. At worst, you risk arrest (even if no crime has occured), the cost of an attorney, and the loss of movie making time.

The fiction that these attractive strangers might be sexually available to anyone is simply a device, as when an author claims he found a manuscript hidden in chest and that his book is a "true story."
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  #10  
Old 07-26-2002, 10:37 PM
Cyberhwk Cyberhwk is offline
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If you :ahem: look around, you can see some of the women appearing on these sites appear in different situations on some others. I'm pretty sure they would be acting, although I haven't seen the website in question.

Not that I ever look at that stuff anyway...
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  #11  
Old 07-28-2002, 08:39 AM
Monkeypants Monkeypants is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by FDISK
The sheer volume of women involved dwarfs . . .
I am definitely sick. Did anyone else read it like this the first time?
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  #12  
Old 07-28-2002, 08:56 AM
belladonna belladonna is offline
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I did.
Actually, it wasn't until you pointed it out that I realized what it actually said.

Dirty, dirty girl.

Gangbus is definitely faked. I knew a couple girls (strippers) who were offered a "starring role". They turned it down.

bella
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  #13  
Old 07-28-2002, 09:02 AM
Fern Forest Fern Forest is offline
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This seems to be an increasingly popular way of making a porn site. Probably because they make their own product for relatively cheap and little worry about Vivid or something other porn company coming down on them. I know of at least 4 sites that do this and have seen their files through "other means" and some of them appear to be very good acting by the ladies but a few are rather poor actresses. Probably all the girls know is that they will be paid to be filmed having sex with this guy and where to meet up with them. Maybe they're told it will be rough, expect some abuse but play hard to get but they don't want them to know too much so they look more like amateurs.

If you think this is unusal or hard for the ladies to fake though check out some of those Japanese rape videos, also staged but jeez louise! they look real and are creepy as all get out. As are these American versions.
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  #14  
Old 07-28-2002, 12:51 PM
percussion percussion is offline
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Hehe this one and the one with the bus are made by the same group.
(note to self: stop watching porn)
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