Often incogruous Southern-U.S. elements in 70s Disney animated films?

[Ranchoth]

Well, this seems like the most appropriate place for this question, so I'll just say it: What was up with the "southern" influence in so many Disney animated films in the late 1960s and into the 1970s? Beyond actually basing a few of movies in the American south (Like The Rescuers, and The Fox and the Hound), Disney also did things like casting Pat Buttram for the voice of British and French characters, and including folk bands playing gutbuckets and empty moonshine jugs. Am I just being oversensitive, or was this a fad or something in pop culture at the time?


Well, thanks for your patience,


Ranchoth

[racinchikki]

Yes, there was a fad like that in pop culture at the time. Hillbillies were cool for some reason. I wasn't around, though, so I couldn't tell you why. Maybe it was tied in with the rhinestone cowboy stuff.

The thing that bugs me is "Robin Hood." Robin's obviously British but everybody else (besides Maid Marian and the other royalty) are all hicks, right down to having a country singer (Roger Miller?) play the rooster minstrel Alain-A-Dale.

[Sublight]

There's a very siginificant drop in quality between Walt's death in 1966 (Jungle Book was his last film) and Michael Eisner's takeover in 1984. Most of the really sub-par films (Robin Hood, The Aristocats, The Fox & the Hound, Pete's Dragon, The Rescuers, etc.) came from this era.

As for the "Southern Effect", I dunno. Maybe one of the marketroids decided 'southern accent' = 'funny' = $ and had it put in every feature, whether it fit or not.

[El Elvis Rojo]

If I recall, Hee-Haw was pretty popular about this time as well, so it could all have been a big fad. If I recall, there's a cut out scene in Saturday Night Fever where Tony's gang gets into a rumble with a bunch of coverall wearin', tabacco chewing, backwater wannabees, but I could be mistaken. When did Songs of the South come out? That seemed pretty well based in "Southern Culture[/b] ::

I think it was just a fad at the time. And also, I liked Robin Hood.

[Captain Amazing]

Originally posted by El Elvis Rojo
When did Songs of the South come out? That seemed pretty well based in "Southern Culture ::
[/b]. [/b]

Song of the South came out in 1946, so that was during the Disney era. And Pat Butram is cool.

[Fern Forest]

What a coincidence, I've been pondering this exact same thing for the past week or so as a possible thread. I'm in the home stretch of collecting every Disney full length animated feature on DVD. Of course I wont be able to finish till 2007.

I had been making heavy use of IMDB during this process and my theory was that it was the fault of (or the result of) this fellow, Wolfgang Reitherman. He was a German immigrant and I figure something about it just struck him. But I couldn't really say. He was the director for many of these as they made the transition from all having a British feel to all having a Southern feel.

But I will say that the Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh also came out in this time (1977) and IMHO it's one of the best although now that I look at it closely it loks like the first 2 scenes in that movie were made as shorts in 66 and 68 totalling 50 of the 71 minutes.

It's just a theory.

[elmwood]

It started in the late 1960s. A report by Ted Blake at the University of Virginia says "From 1965-1970, an average of six Southern shows aired per season, providing America with a heaping dose of the down home simple life."

Southern culture was HUGE in the 1970s Consider the following:

* Jimmy Carter, the first American president who didn't conceal his rural Southern roots, was elected in 1975.

* The rise and short-term dominance of Southern hard rock, such as Lynyrd Skynyrd and Molly Hatchet.

* TV shows such as the Dukes of Hazzard, Hee Haw and so on.

* The trucker culture fad; i.e. CB radios and slang, BJ and the Bear, Convoy, etc.

* Movies - Smokey and the Bandit, Harper Valley PTA, etc.

* The start of the economic rise of the South, and massive growth in cities like Atlanta, Charlotte, and Nashville.

[Blalron]

Southern culture was HUGE in the 1970s Consider the following

Don't forget Billy Beer!

[SolGrundy]

Robin Hood is one of my favorite Disney movies, and I've always thought the voice casting was a great decision. It's not incongruous at all. When Americans hear a southern accent, they think "rural." When Americans hear a British accent, they think of nobility (or at least pretension). The story of Robin Hood is about a bunch of rural people, led by a nobleman, fighting against an unjust king. So all of the Merry Men have southern accents, and all of the noblemen (including Robin and Marian) are British.

To a lesser degree, it's the same thing that Star Wars uses -- most of the Imperials have British accents, while most of the rebels are American.

Now, I'm sure that the renewed popularity of country music and southern rock, and just the fact that Roger Miller and Pat Buttram were fairly big stars at the time, had more to do with it than anything else. But it makes perfect sense for Robin Hood, and The Fox and the Hound, for that matter, since that story was basically set in a southern American rural area.

[riserius1]

Originally posted by Osiris
What a coincidence, I've been pondering this exact same thing for the past week or so as a possible thread. I'm in the home stretch of collecting every Disney full length animated feature on DVD. Of course I wont be able to finish till 2007.

If you're intending on including Song Of The South in this little project of yours, it's going to take a lot longer than 2007. Until this movie passes into public domain, it will NEVER be released on video or dvd. The NAACP has put enormous pressure on Disney and this movie is considered to be unflattering to blacks.
I found this little fact out this year when my family and I went on vacation to Walt Disney World. We found a gift shop near Frontierland that had various plush toys from the movie and right outside the gift shop it had a few attractions that were tied in with SotS. When we asked if they had the movie in stock, the girl at the counter informed us that the chances of this being in video form in our lifetime are slim to none, for the above stated reasons.
The real irony in all this?
The same young woman told us that black families asking for this movie outnumbered white families 3-1.
Who exactly are the NAACP trying to protect? You gotta wonder.

Chris W

PS I sincerely apologize if the terms "black" and "white" as stated here offend anyone; I'm merely too lazy to type out the "whatever-hyphen-american" PC terms.

[Fern Forest]

No, Song of the South is not considered part of Disney's Full Legth Animated Features. Here's a list of them. Cinderella will be the last of those to be released on DVD in 2007.

That being said I will have Song of the South on Laserdisc (Japanese release) in the next few months. I've been hanging around eBay and finally got a player. Now I just have to wait for one of the movie auctions to work out for me.

[Fern Forest]

Originally posted by riserius1
The real irony in all this?
The same young woman told us that black families asking for this movie outnumbered white families 3-1.
Who exactly are the NAACP trying to protect? You gotta wonder.

Also they were going to release it on VHS and Alex Haley had recorded an introduction to it. Which presumably has also not seen the light of day. I was lucky enough to see this film in theaters in 1986. Apparantly it wasn't in theateres for too lng before it got pulled.

[Kyomara]

Originally posted by riserius1
PS I sincerely apologize if the terms "black" and "white" as stated here offend anyone; I'm merely too lazy to type out the "whatever-hyphen-american" PC terms.

Thank god there are people like you out there keeping it real for all the rest of us.

[Kamino Neko]

Originally posted by riserius1
The NAACP has put enormous pressure on Disney and this movie is considered to be unflattering to blacks.

No, they haven't. Disney has no plans to rerelease it, or release it on video in America, but the NAACP has nothing to do with it. The NAACP has had nothing to say on the film in years.

http://www.snopes.com/disney/films/sots.htm

[CalMeacham]

I just got a copy of Song of the South (a friend got a copy in England and had it transferred to US standard). It's been twenty years since I last saw this film (it had a release in the US in 1982 -- the last one I was aware of, until someone mentioned a 1987 release above), and I was surprised -- I didn't realize the southern accents were so extreme. I can see why some folks would take offense -- it's an awfully pretty picture of the South, with the avuncular stiry-telling Uncle Remus and the black folks not particularly upset with their roles.

On the other hand, you gotta realize that this is the way things looked to people -- especially white people -- back then. And we still have Aunt Jemima pancakes and Uncle Ben's rice on our grocery shelves.

[CalMeacham]

I just got a copy of Song of the South (a friend got a copy in England and had it transferred to US standard). It's been twenty years since I last saw this film (it had a release in the US in 1982 -- the last one I was aware of, until someone mentioned a 1987 release above), and I was surprised -- I didn't realize the southern accents were so extreme. I can see why some folks would take offense -- it's an awfully pretty picture of the South, with the avuncular stiry-telling Uncle Remus and the black folks not particularly upset with their roles.

On the other hand, you gotta realize that this is the way things looked to people -- especially white people -- back then. And we still have Aunt Jemima pancakes and Uncle Ben's rice on our grocery shelves.

[bifar]

Robin Hood is one of my favorite Disney movies, and I've always thought the voice casting was a great decision. It's not incongruous at all. When Americans hear a southern accent, they think "rural." When Americans hear a British accent, they think of nobility (or at least pretension). The story of Robin Hood is about a bunch of rural people, led by a nobleman, fighting against an unjust king. So all of the Merry Men have southern accents, and all of the noblemen (including Robin and Marian) are British.

Eh well, that’s okay if you’re American. The rest of the world may find it a teeny bit bizarre. And does this mean that Kevin Costner’s character in Prince of Thieves is a redneck yokel while his Merry Men are all castle-inhabiting aristos??

[Spoke]

It's all karma.

After all, we Southerners had to put up with English actors/actresses and bad fake accents in Gone With the Wind.

[Earl Snake-Hips Tucker]

According to snopes, the part about the NAACP causing

http://www.snopes.com/disney/films/sots.htm

[Earl Snake-Hips Tucker]

According to snopes, the part about the NAACP pressuring Disney to withhold the movie is not accurate, and this link gives their sources for it. Whether or not the sources are telling the truth is another matter.

http://www.snopes.com/disney/films/sots.htm

[SolGrundy]

Originally posted by bifar
Eh well, that’s okay if you’re American. The rest of the world may find it a teeny bit bizarre.

Oh well, Disney's Robin Hood is an American movie; I guess the rest of the world just has to cope. Hey, if we can make it though British movies and all the biscuits and crisps and loos and bonnets without being too confused, then it shouldn't be a problem.

I do think it's kind of funny that the movie has Robin Hood and Marian as foxes, towns people as dogs and rabbits, Friar Tuck as a badger, the king as a lion and his advisor as a talking snake, and the part that people find "bizarre" are the accents.

And does this mean that Kevin Costner’s character in Prince of Thieves is a redneck yokel while his Merry Men are all castle-inhabiting aristos??

No, that means that Costner got a boatload of money and a bunch of awards for his first directorial effort, so he had free rein to cast himself in a movie he had no business being in.

[riserius1]

Originally posted by Tengu


No, they haven't. Disney has no plans to rerelease it, or release it on video in America, but the NAACP has nothing to do with it. The NAACP has had nothing to say on the film in years.

http://www.snopes.com/disney/films/sots.htm

I was basing my earlier NAACP statement on what I was told by several black gentlemen that I work with. I should know better than to not research such a statement, but I assumed they knew what they were talking about.

My profound ignorance begs your forgiveness.

Chris W.

PS It still doesn't give a legitimate explanation for why the film is not in release.

[Kamino Neko]

Explaination: Disney's afraid of bad publicity, even though there are no current complaints against the movie.

[Fern Forest]

I imagine Disney is also extremely protective about their main characters such as Mickey, Donald, Goofy and a few others. So while they will let Joe Carioca smoke up a storm in The Three Caballeros they will cut out a couple seconds of Goofy smoking in Saludos Amigos. Presumably to keep people like us from snapping screen shots of Goofy lighting up. Except in Japan where they are more permissive about certain things and already have uncut versions of Song of the South and Melody Time and other Disney movies. Woe is me that I didn't know this earlier because I am extremely jealous. Any of you Japanese dopers know where we can find these things on laserdisc cheap?

I think the British have other more pressing Robin Hood complaints to lodge with Disney.

Ranchoth, your threads seems to have strayed far from it's origin. Obviously Disney is a thread topic that we have not really had a chance to discuss and bitch about lately. I hope you don't mind too much and I think we did come to some sort of answer for you. I still think ol' Wolfie had something to do with it but googling anything useful on him is next to impossible.

I did have another thought on this though. A lot of Disney movies before this time had British elements. Certainly Disney was certainly some sort of Anglophile. This could be some sort of way to bring Disney back to America. And with the much used American setting, the old west, so heavily explored the decade before they went to another one, the Ol' South. And this movement was very strongly reinforced by the larger southern movement in the US.

You know what's suprising though? That they went Southern and not into space? Sputnik went up in 1957 and kicked off a huge space phenomenon in the US but Disney's Full Length Animated Features took another 45 years to make it into space, with our recent friend Stitch. Instead they went South.