If Chinese Already Uses Accent for Something Else, Then How Do They Show Emotion?

[Jim B.]

The text of my question is somehow mysteriously missing again. So here it goes:

Chinese is a language that depends alot on the accent the speaker places on the word. Verbal intonation can quite literally change the meaning of the words you are using.

My question is this: then how do they show emotion? Think about it. In most non-Chinese languages we associate verbal intonation with emotion. So how do Chinese speakers use it for word meaning AND emotion? Or do they in fact use it to mean emotion at all?

Just wondering.

[Boyo Jim]

I have no idea what you're asking here, but I can tell you this. I have heard angry chinese people people here and there, and though I don't know a word of their language, I could damn well tell they were angry.

How do they do it? VOLUME, VOLUME, VOLUME! (That's one way, at least).

[Koxinga]

I've sometimes found that the already-present tones for words become very exaggerated, if that makes sense. If you want to say you don't want something, just say "bu (rising) yao (falling)". If you want to say that you REALLY don't want something, say "buuUUU YAOh la!!!."

[Monty]

Accent and tone really aren't the same thing. The meaning of the phoneme depends on the tone, not accent.

[Koxinga]

Originally posted by yojimboguy
I have no idea what you're asking here, but I can tell you this. I have heard angry chinese people people here and there, and though I don't know a word of their language, I could damn well tell they were angry.

How do they do it? VOLUME, VOLUME, VOLUME! (That's one way, at least).

If they were Cantonese, they might have been whispering.

[flabbygirlyman]

Chinese shows emotions by short ,one-syllable words called "modal particles" attached to the end of the sentence. These words have no meaning in themselves , they just give a clue to the emotion of the speaker , much like our "e-mail smilies " , which we use to show our emotions without having the benefit of voice intonations that we would use if actually talking out loud . For example , the word , "ah", is placed at the end of a sentence to soften its tone and make it less abrupt when talking to someone whom we feel may take offense otherwise. In other words , ah = ;0) . There are many ,many of these particles,and learning them is a bit of a challenge.

[sailor]

So what is the exact meaning of "la" when attached to the end of a phrase. even in English they do it: "I have to get some sleep, la".

[Johnny B. Goode]

Originally posted by flabbygirlyman
Chinese shows emotions by short ,one-syllable words called "modal particles" attached to the end of the sentence. These words have no meaning in themselves , they just give a clue to the emotion of the speaker , much like our "e-mail smilies " , which we use to show our emotions without having the benefit of voice intonations that we would use if actually talking out loud . For example , the word , "ah", is placed at the end of a sentence to soften its tone and make it less abrupt when talking to someone whom we feel may take offense otherwise. In other words , ah = ;0) . There are many ,many of these particles,and learning them is a bit of a challenge.

First, let me preface my reply by saying that I am Cantonese. Although, I am no expert at the language, I know enough of it and use it well enough to say that I am functionally fluent.

Regarding the "modal particles", there are many of these in Cantonese but I cannot think of any instances where they used to express emotion. They are conversational devices (they don't exist in written form) which may denote punctuation or emphasis but not really emotion. They are most commonly used in questions. I also note, from my basic knowledge of Thai, that they also exist in Thai.

I am not sure that tonal changes in english are used to express emotion either. More commonly, the variation of tonal change that exists in a language such as Cantonese (which has nine to eleven tones for each phoenetic sound) is just not discernable in a language such as english. Even when a word in english is said in a completely different tone, the meaning (connotative or denotative) is unchanged. Often, people's accents when speaking english produces wildly different tones in saying the same word and this is obviously not a matter of emotive expression.

I absolutely agree with Doghouse Reilly's insinuation that Cantonese people are incredibly loud. Just go to your local yumcha (dim sim) restaurant and listen to the shouting. It's worse than the trading floor on a futures exchange. My parents cannot conduct a conversation while in the same room. They need to shout it across several rooms so that they can be heard by everyone but understood by noone (including each other).

[kanicbird]

They may have more words then us, this would allow emotion attached to words

[Urban Ranger]

A lot of emotions are conveyed by non-verbal channels, which can include changes in how words are said. For example, "really" can be a question or denote disbelief depending on how you say it.

Same thing with Chinese.

[astro]

I don't know the Chinese language(s) at all, but in my observation of English speakers "emotion" is carried by as much (if not more) more by absolute volume, speed, facial expression and phrasing in addition to the pattern of specific pitch changes we call intonation. I suspect the same is true of Chinese (and all human languages) in their various forms.

Article of related interest
NONVERBAL COMMUNICATION
Chinese Emotion and Gesture

and get a look at the article's supervising professor! I want her to supervise me!

[mikan]

IANA linguist, but I would definitely agree that emotion is conveyed by a combination of a lot of different things, not the least of which is facial expression (remember all those monkey photos from your Intro to Psych class?). Some other factors (based upon what other people have said above) that come into the mix:

(1) Accent: if we construe this broadly as including volume (such as giving a little extra oomph to syllables that are normally stressed anyway), then sure, it can help express emotion.

(2) Tone: clearly can affect meaning. With different intonations, you can say the word "really" (all by itself) to suggest boredom at or interest in what another person is saying. Some people might not consider boredom or interest to be true emotions (certainly they don't rank up there with the universals of happiness, sadness, anger, etc.), but they do indicate an inner state of mind. Close enough for me.

(3) Word choice: obviously plays a part, as in "Listen here, bub…" vs. "Listen here, a-hole…."

(4) Elongation of sounds (is there a technical term for this?): as in "I loooove that perfume you're wearing."

(5) Non-linguistic utterances: like laughing, or pretending to laugh.

(6) Pace/tempo: Try saying this at your normal conversational speed and see how somber it sounds: "Earth to earth, ashes to ashes, dust to dust." Not very.

Doghouse Reilly's example of "bu (rising) yao (falling)" vs. "buuUUU YAOh la!!!", if I understand it correctly, doesn't really show a change in tone, but it does seem to involve accent/volume, elongation, and word choice (that "la" ain't there for nothin').

[ShibbOleth]

Originally posted by Johnny B. Goode


Regarding the "modal particles", there are many of these in Cantonese but I cannot think of any instances where they used to express emotion. They are conversational devices (they don't exist in written form) which may denote punctuation or emphasis but not really emotion. They are most commonly used in questions. I also note, from my basic knowledge of Thai, that they also exist in Thai.

As far as I've been able to determine, the modal particles in Thai are about relationship, punctuation and emphasis but not emotion, other than in the sense that emotion can be expressed in terms of relationship (for example, talking to somebody in a less formal manner than required by the apparent relationship could connotate anger). I'd say that pace and volume in Thai could indicate emotion, ie, quick = excitement, loud = anger (definitely can be true for Thais who consider it the height of bad manners to speak loudly), very soft = deference, slow = disinterest, etc.

Also, tones are relative, so a long tone is not a set length, just longer than a short tone. Rising and falling tones are more complex. But you could change the overall tone of speech without affecting the tone of individual words.

[Lamia]

Originally posted by k2dave
They may have more words then us, this would allow emotion attached to words

I'd like to note in passing that no language has more words than English.

[ShibbOleth]

Thai has far fewer words than English, but has a multitude of "heart words" that are combinations of the word for heart, jai, and other words that create a new word about feelings or emotion. Examples:

jai dee (good heart) = friendly, kind, magnanimous
jai dam (black heart) = bad or cruel person
jai ba:p (sin heart) = sinful
jai ha:i (disappear heart) = confusion
jai rawn (hot heart) = passionate, impulsive, impatient
jai yen (cool heart) = calm, controlled

Those are just examples. I have a book on just heart phrases that has between 200-300 entries, and there are some missing. Many have subtle meanings and gradations.

There are also the "shit words":

khee nio (sticky shit) = stingy, selfish
khee gO:ng (cheat shit) = fraudulent

[lothos2002]

Originally posted by Lamia


I'd like to note in passing that no language has more words than English.

Please provide a cite for this Lamia. I think it is worth discussing.

[ShibbOleth]

Is it true that English has the most words of any language?

from AskOxford
This question is practically impossible to answer, for the reasons set out in the answer to "How many words are there in the English language?" However, it seems quite probable that English has more words than most comparable world languages.

How many words are there in the English language?
The brief answer to the above question is about 250,000 words. In comparison I found claims of 40,000 to 80,000 written words in Chinese.

[doreen]

Don't speak Chinese, but I hear it all the time (My husband and his family speak Cantonese.) Even not understanding most of the words, I can tell when they're angry.asking a question, asking for a favor or just having a conversation. At first I didn't. I thought they were always yelling. Now I can tell the difference between different types of yelling.

[Shalmanese]

I would suspect that its not quite hard to pick up emotions from language. I find that when I watch foreign films, its not hard to distinguish whether a person is angry or happy.

[China Guy]

Originally posted by Doghouse Reilly
If they were Cantonese, they might have been whispering.

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

As for the "la", that is primarily a Singaporean Chinese expression, and they use it to death, and often when speaking English. Chinese people from Taiwan, Hong Kong and China all make fun of the Sing "la". Again, the "la" is not spoken by the vast majority of Chinese. Given the numbers, the population of Singapore doesn't even count as a rounding error in the Greater Chinese world.

[xejkh]

"la" is not Singaporean Chinese! It's also Malaysian - generally, Southeast Asian Chinese. It's a result of long time exposure to Malay. It is a multifunctional, multitone thing.

Tone Chinese has 5 levels of tone, from low (1) to high (5).
For those in the know, the yin in Chinese noted as 55, yang as 35, shang 213 and qu is 51.

5 is similar to reading English at a very high pitch and 1 is akin to trying to mutter things under your breath. So you change your tone accordingly.

Tone is used together with stress. How do you stress things in Chinese? You either slow down your reading -- "Bu. Yao. la" (ie No. Way.) or lengthen your reading (and therefore the rate you change your tones) -- Bu yaaaooo la.

Or you either shout to express extremes in emotion eg in distress or joy. Of course, whether you're happy or not depends on what you shout. Also, facial and hand gestures tell a great deal.

Just before I forget about the "la"s and "lo"s (known as "tanci")

"la"/"le" - used somewhat to indicate past tense, or that something has already happened. eg

"Ta lai la!" There he comes!
"Bu yao la" No.... implies that the speaker has decided against the topic.

"a" -- implies surprise and exclamation. Also, agreement
"Hao a!" That's great!
"A, ta pao de zhen kuai!" He runs really fast!
"A, rensheng shi duome de cuiruo!" Ah, the fragility of life!

"ne" -- implies questioning
"Tamen dou you renwu le, wo ne?" They have their own duties, what about me?

"ne" also indicates that something is being carried out at the time of speech.
"Bie xianzai zou, waimian hai zai xia yu ne" Don't go now, it's still raining.

"ne" -- to affirm something and convince
"Wo de shouhuo bu xiao ne" I benefitted quite a lot.

"ma3" - implies something is obvious, to suggest, to state the topic
"Benlai jiu shi zheyang ma!" It's always been like that!
"Bie zuo zheme kuai ma!" Don't walk that quickly (ie Slow down!)
"Kexue ma, ding nan de" (As for) Science, it's quite difficult (for me)

"ma1" -- to question
"Ni hao ma?" How are you?

Should be all, I can't squeeze anything else out...

[Koxinga]

Originally posted by xejkh
Tone Chinese has 5 levels of tone, from low (1) to high (5).
For those in the know, the yin in Chinese noted as 55, yang as 35, shang 213 and qu is 51.

5 is similar to reading English at a very high pitch and 1 is akin to trying to mutter things under your breath. So you change your tone accordingly.

Tone is used together with stress. How do you stress things in Chinese? You either slow down your reading -- "Bu. Yao. la" (ie No. Way.) or lengthen your reading (and therefore the rate you change your tones) -- Bu yaaaooo la.

I gotta say, I've been studying Chinese for a decade and a half now, and I have no idea what you're talking about.

[xejkh]

True enough it's a difficult thing to grasp. But if you read slowly enough you may note the changes in tone.

Maybe it's easier to conceptualise it in terms of music.

You can play a piece of music quickly or slowly. But no matter how you play, the music itself remains the same.

When one plays music, it is possible to throw in emotion eg by emphasising on some parts, playing louder and softer.

This is the same thing that happens in languages, including Chinese.

I must apologise for confusing.

[Koxinga]

Originally posted by Doghouse Reilly


I gotta say, I've been studying Chinese for a decade and a half now, and I have no idea what you're talking about.

OK, maybe I have a vague idea now . . . it seems like you're saying that "levels of tone" are something like notes on a scale, such that "level" 1 equals (say) middle C and "level" 5 equals G, with the intervening "levels" corresponding to D, E, and F. So you want to indicate that a first-tone word (yin) is a steady G, a second tone word (yang) rises from E to G, and so on.

OK, but I think that's making things a little too complicated. Chinese first tone words are like a hotel receptionist giving a bright and cheery "Yes?" after you ring the bell.

Second tone words are like a slightly sarcastic waiter responding to your call--"ah, yes, how may I be of service?"--note the upward, mocking inflection in his voice.

Third tone is like your boss giving some deep and skeptical though to a point you've raised during your performance review. "Umm . . . yeess, it's true that you've been consistently punctual, but . . ." Notice how he almost seems to nod his head in thought, and the word "yes" seems to go down and then slightly up with it?

And fourth tone is a flat, insistant declarative: "Yes! I did take out the garbage, for the fourteenth time!"

Isn't that easy? English has exactly the same tones as Chinese, just used in different ways.

[Urban Ranger]

I have no idea what xejkh is talking about even when I am native Chinese.

[Urban Ranger]

I have no idea what xejkh is talking about even when I am native Chinese.

[puubs]

Haha. I also got a bit lost -- with the yin, yang, shang, qu and corresponding numbers. Any clarification would be appreciated.

I think it's true that in Chinese, and language in general, a lot of emotion is not necessarily attributed to inflection. I guess it's pretty easy to think that changing the inflection would mess up the tone. The same argument could be made to how do Chinese sing? In the latter, the tones are kind of neutralized. I'm not sure how to describe it, but I think after a while, you notice that tones are really subtle. You can almost tell which word it is by just the way it starts out (first tone is long and high, second tone starts low, third tone has a slight inflection going down then up, and fourth tone starts high and goes down abrupt). The tendency to those that start learning is to really exaggerate these differences.

Anyway, after a bit of thinking, one thing I noticed that people from Beijing (maybe they do it elsewhere) do is draw back their bottom limp (like a frown) and suck in to indicate hesitation. I thought it was the strangest thing, but after a while, even I did it (but not as much as they did). Also, after a while when you get a real feel for the language, pauses + just speed of how you speak can convey a lot of the meaning. These is definite a natural flow you learn after a while.

[flabbygirlyman]

on a related note , a certain linguist ,whose name I can't remember, did a very detailed survey showing that Mandarin pop singers eliminate the tones while singing , whereas Cantanese singers retain them ! After listening to some Chinese music , I'm inclined to say that she is correct .

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by puubs
Haha. I also got a bit lost -- with the yin, yang, shang, qu and corresponding numbers. Any clarification would be appreciated.

I think I know what he's talking about.

He's talking about the tones in Madarin. Yin and yang are actually yin pin and yang pin. Yin pin is the ordinary flat tone. Yang pin is also flat but at a higher pitch. Shang is raising at the end. Qu is dipping in the middle.

[xejkh]

Ok... I've checked again.

The numbers are simply assigned to reflect the changes in tone. As all of us are aware of, there are many tonal languages apart from Chinese, and these numbers simply create a unified system for comparison.

A link: http://www.graman.net/hongkong/tone/
Another: http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Pagod...i/anctones.htm -- scroll down for "Yuen Ren Chao's Pitch Representation"

The study on whether tones are retained in Chinese and in Cantonese is found here:
http://deall.ohio-state.edu/chan.9/articles/bls13.htm

Essentially tones are reflected in songs sung in Cantonese by the shape of the melody: when there is a rising tone, the music also rises in pitch. In Chinese tones are totally ignored -- which can be difficult even for a Chinese to understand what the signer is singing about.

[China Guy]

xejkh, it looks like you speak some sort of Chinese instead of googling, but your tonal thing is way off. It ain't pitch it is changes in inflection. There is the standard pinyin flat (first), rising (second), falling then rising (third), falling (fourth) and neutral. Maybe you're describing this in a method used in Singapore or Malaysia, but it sure isn't the standard way of describing tones attributed to Mandarin.

"La" is something used by Chinese speakers in Southeast Asia, and really no where else. Certainly not in Taiwan, Hong Kong or China.

"le" is used in China but is not the same as "la"

[xejkh]

The above method -- prescribing numbers to describe tone -- is used nowhere except in linguistics. Here in Singapore (and all over the world) people learn their Chinese with the help of romanisation and the 4 tones. True enough, the tones are simply changes in pitch and inflection does not affect tone at all.

Please note: Stick to the yin, yang, shang and qu that you've learnt! The system I gave is just for your own information and enrichment - you may understand better how the tone system really works - but it's not needed for speaking Chinese accurately.

BTW, I speak Chinese (Putonghua) and another Chinese dialect, Teochew (Chaozhou).

[Koxinga]

Originally posted by China Guy
"La" is something used by Chinese speakers in Southeast Asia, and really no where else. Certainly not in Taiwan, Hong Kong or China.

"le" is used in China but is not the same as "la" [/b]

Not to be argumentative, but I do hear something that sounds like "la" all the time in Taiwan, though it's probably used differently than in SE Asia. It usually expresses annoyance: "Tao yan la! Ni hao fan!" Although it's usually girls who speak this way. A guy peppering his conversation with "la's" of annoyance would sound extremely gay.

BTW, there's all sorts of usages in Taiwan that probably aren't heard on the mainland--for example, quite a few Japanese words have entered common parlance.

[Monty]

xejkh: Last time I was in Singapore, I got the distinct impression the national government was trying to instill Putonghua into the Chinese education system instead of the Cantonese (IIRC) that said population there was already using.

[Space Vampire]

Originally posted by China Guy

"La" is something used by Chinese speakers in Southeast Asia, and really no where else. Certainly not in Taiwan, Hong Kong or China.

I know you know more than I do, but are you sure about that? I surf an HK-based board that is mostly Cantonese-language, and it's full of "la" both written in Chinese ("pull" plus a mouth) and romanized in English phrases (as in "Sammi act very good la!") It's possible that those people are all Singaporean and Malaysian, but given the sheer numbers I'm skeptical. Or are we talking about different things?

[China Guy]

Well, in HK, they use Aieeeya a lot, and a drawn out "ahhh" sound at the end of a sentence. It is quite distict from the Singapore/SE Asian "la", which is a very distict "la" sound. It would be "Sammi act very good-ahhhhhh" in HK, and in Singapore "Sammi act very good LAHHHHHHHHHH."

Doghouse, it's been about 12 years since I lived in Taiwan, so maybe it's changed but I haven't heard the Taiwanese I know here use it. Again, in Singapore it is a very clear "la" sound, whereas I think the cutesy "xiaojie ke ai" speak is more the "le" modal particle that perhaps is not pronounced so clearly.

[Koxinga]

Originally posted by China Guy
Doghouse, it's been about 12 years since I lived in Taiwan, so maybe it's changed but I haven't heard the Taiwanese I know here use it. Again, in Singapore it is a very clear "la" sound, whereas I think the cutesy "xiaojie ke ai" speak is more the "le" modal particle that perhaps is not pronounced so clearly.

Well, again, I don't think the "la" I hear in Taiwan is the same "la" that's used in Singapore, but it's definitely a "la". I suspect it might be a Taiwanese word of annoyance that's carried over into everyday Mandarin speaking.

I think also that the Taiwanese people you run into on the mainland are probably speaking a careful sort of lingua franca in which they avoid words and phrases that the mainlanders wouldn't understand--and vice-versa, of course.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by China Guy
Well, in HK, they use Aieeeya a lot, and a drawn out "ahhh" sound at the end of a sentence. It is quite distict from the Singapore/SE Asian "la", which is a very distict "la" sound. It would be "Sammi act very good-ahhhhhh" in HK, and in Singapore "Sammi act very good LAHHHHHHHHHH."

Doghouse, it's been about 12 years since I lived in Taiwan, so maybe it's changed but I haven't heard the Taiwanese I know here use it. Again, in Singapore it is a very clear "la" sound, whereas I think the cutesy "xiaojie ke ai" speak is more the "le" modal particle that perhaps is not pronounced so clearly.

"Aieeya" is different from "la" in Cantonese.

"Aieeya" is a generic term signaling something bad happened. "La" is just something meaningless added to the end of a sentence.

[Burnt Sugar]

My lecturer at uni said that particles are used to show emotions and things, often like an exclamation mark for example.

From my chinese textbook (in addition to some mentioned):
a = (depending on tone) "ah", "oh dear", or indicates doubt or joy or anything really (i guess they put the tone they want to use for the sentence into this one letter!)
aiyo = an interjection expressing pain or surprise
ba = at end of sentence indicates statement is a suggestion, a request or an order... can also indicate uncertainty
shi....de = between words are emphasised

ehh. Can't be bothered looking for any more!

There are also words such as zhebu, which is inserted into a sentence when what is going to be said is evident.

So, from what I have been taught, they use words which indicate the tone of the sentence but don't really mean anything.

[xejkh]

xejkh: Last time I was in Singapore, I got the distinct impression the national government was trying to instill Putonghua into the Chinese education system instead of the Cantonese (IIRC) that said population there was already using.

Close, but not quite. The government is pushing Chinese Singaporeans to speak Mandarin (Singapore-speak for Putonghua) and discouraging people from using their dialects like Cantonese and Hokkien (Fujian/Min dialect) etc. Descendants of Hokkiens (ie people who originally hailed from Fujian) form the majority of the ethnic Chinese population here, not the Cantonese.

[Lamia]

Originally posted by Doghouse Reilly

Well, again, I don't think the "la" I hear in Taiwan is the same "la" that's used in Singapore, but it's definitely a "la". I suspect it might be a Taiwanese word of annoyance that's carried over into everyday Mandarin speaking.

My limited experience backs you up -- my one Taiwanese friend said "la", and the guestbook on her webpage was full of "las" from her friends back in Taipei. It did seem to be a general expression of annoyance.

[Space Vampire]

Originally posted by China Guy
Well, in HK, they use Aieeeya a lot, and a drawn out "ahhh" sound at the end of a sentence. It is quite distict from the Singapore/SE Asian "la", which is a very distict "la" sound. It would be "Sammi act very good-ahhhhhh" in HK, and in Singapore "Sammi act very good LAHHHHHHHHHH."

It's not the same. The "Ahh" sound is a different character, (is it "tooth" plus a mouth?) and actually is also used by some when writing English, usually written as "ar." I know what you mean; "aaah" seems much more common in Cantonese speech than any "la" I can think of. Actually, I can't think of when you would say "la," (maybe it is more of a girly thing) but then my Cantonese is pretty creaky, especially on those troublesome finals. But I maintain that, regardless of whether or not it's a normal feature of speech in HK, they do seem to use it in writing plenty. You can see examples:

http://www.cinema.com.hk/forum/c_for...3?TitleID=7521

I wouldn't say "PK la" personally, but maybe it's a girl, isn't "PK" a girl's euphemism?

[Urban Ranger]

No, PK either stands for "player killer" (on massive multiplayer online RPGs) or a slang term for "woe is me."

[Space Vampire]

"Woe is me?" That isn't how I would translate "pok (k)gaai," which is certainly the meaning in that context. Did you mean something else?

[Monty]

Thanks, xe. I never did find out how the Singapore Chinese felt about that.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Space Vampire
"Woe is me?" That isn't how I would translate "pok (k)gaai," which is certainly the meaning in that context. Did you mean something else?

How would you translate it?

[Johnny B. Goode]

Originally posted by China Guy
Well, in HK, they use Aieeeya a lot, and a drawn out "ahhh" sound at the end of a sentence. It is quite distict from the Singapore/SE Asian "la", which is a very distict "la" sound. It would be "Sammi act very good-ahhhhhh" in HK, and in Singapore "Sammi act very good LAHHHHHHHHHH."

Doghouse, it's been about 12 years since I lived in Taiwan, so maybe it's changed but I haven't heard the Taiwanese I know here use it. Again, in Singapore it is a very clear "la" sound, whereas I think the cutesy "xiaojie ke ai" speak is more the "le" modal particle that perhaps is not pronounced so clearly.

As silly as I feel arguing about the use of "la", I feel that I must add something here.

Whilst it does seem that "la" is most often used by Singaporean and Malaysians (especially when idiosyncratically adding it to the end of a statement in English), it is also used as a "modal particle" in Cantonese.

I am sitting here talking to myself, saying various statements in Cantonese and I find that (although this is just my gut feel) "la" is more conclusive than "ah". It is often used at the end of a statement which requires no explanation or contention. These things are very subtle and subjective though and I don't feel that there is any way to give a definitive description of the correct usage of these modal particles.

[Johnny B. Goode]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


How would you translate it?

PK is a HK slang abbreviation for a cursing phrase "pook ghy", which is short for "sei pook ghy", which literally means "die lying in the street". It is used as a noun to describe someone. eg. He is a PK.

NB: Only one of my friends uses this abbreviation and he uses it as a polite form of the swear word. Just like "friggin'" or "fricken". I never use "PK" because if I'm gonna swear, it's gonna be rude and because it represents no economy over "pook ghy".

[puubs]

Alright, I really don't know how to answer this. I was back in Taiwan in June, and to my knowledge I did not hear it that much -- at least not so much that it's used after almost every sentence. But it's also possible that it's such a subtle thing, that I may just not hear it (and I've been around native Taiwanese people all my life). I know there's some clear "aaa" or "naa" sounds (as emphasis), but "laa"? I'm not sure. I may just ask my parents tomorrow. I think one thing for sure is that it's not the same as SE asian usage. In fact, I was under the impression that "la" was just used with singlish (rather than singapore chinese), but the times I've encountered this is very few.

One thing to add is that with people that have a heavy Taiwanese accent (especially if you've spoken Taiwanese first, and then Mandarin) is that many "l" sounds are pronounced as an "n" sound. For example, today is very cold = jin tian hen neng. This, you probalby hear more clearly from the older generation, ie my parents. So, maybe there's a "naa/aaa" type sound. But just from casual associations, this "la" thing is something I have not noticed. I've never seen it so frequently in writing, as well. I can check back tomorrow though, if I have the time.

[China Guy]

puubs - that's what I'm trying to say. There may be varying degrees of usage of a "la" sound in Taiwan, HK and maybe even China (I certainly don't hear it day to day in Shanghai), but Singlish and Singaporean Chinese (pick a dialect, any dialect), all you hear is "la." The Sing "la" and Taiwan/HK "la" are two completely seperate beasts. No modal partical, this is an in your face big ol' honkin LA. It is used to death. Imagine Bob and Ted say "eh", magnify the volume about 20 decibles, and you get an idea.

Cool. Some more Canto to add to my vocabulary "pook ghy", which is short for "sei pook ghy",