The Straight Dope

Go Back   Straight Dope Message Board > Main > Cafe Society

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-13-2002, 08:35 AM
Eats_Crayons Eats_Crayons is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2000
MacMillan and Wife... no wife

One summer I was stuck at my relatives with no job -- the only thing on during they day were sopas, talk shows and re-runs of detective shows on A&E like, Banacek, Columbo and MacMillan and Wife. Since you saw episodes almost every day, they'd got through the seasons pretty quickly.

McMillan and Wife starred Rock Hudson and Susan Saint James. Toward the end of one season Sally McMillan was pregant -- toward the end of that season very pregnant. The next (last) season or so, the show was just called McMillan. The maid, "Mildred", was played by Nancy Walker was replaced by "Agatha," played by Martha Raye.

What happened to Sally McMillan? Agatha made a few comments that suggested McMillan was now a widower. I read on a website that she "died in a plane crash". Was there ever a "death episode?" Was it ever dealt with on the show or were there only a few passing comments like Agatha's? Did they ever actually explain her death or did the "plane crash" thing come from info given to the press rather than any exposition in the show? Was the plane crash an accident or did it involve some nefarious bad guy? Did Rock Hudson ever boo-hoo-hoo over Sally?

(IIRC correctly, Susan Saint James left the show during a contract dispute.)
Reply With Quote
Advertisements  
  #2  
Old 10-13-2002, 10:49 AM
everton everton is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
I don't remember any death episode, but I believe that Hudson and Saint James didn't exactly hit it off. The rumour I heard was that she was annoyed by him being a closeted gay man with a public reputation for being a ladies man through roles like MacMillan. No idea how true that was.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-13-2002, 11:28 AM
Mr. Blue Sky Mr. Blue Sky is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 1999
Re: MacMillan and Wife... no wife

Quote:
Originally posted by Charmian
(IIRC correctly, Susan Saint James left the show during a contract dispute.)
According to Harry and Wally's Favorite TV Shows (Harry Castleman & Walter J. Podrazik):

"After a successful five-year run, Susan Saint James, Nancy Walker, and John Schuck left the program (the latter two for their own separate series, Saint James to do movies), so it was re-written into a Rock Hudson solo vehicle. Mac becomes a widower (Sally dies in a plane crash), with a new housekeeper (Agatha, Mildred's sister), a new dim-witted assistant (Sgt. DiMaggio), and a Sally substitute (Maggie, Mac's secretary)."

The show only lasted for six episodes in this format due the loss of too many familiar characters.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-13-2002, 07:37 PM
yosemite yosemite is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Quote:
The rumour I heard was that she was annoyed by him being a closeted gay man with a public reputation for being a ladies man through roles like MacMillan. No idea how true that was.
Yep, I was always led to believe that was true. I remember reading some a quote from an interview where she basically said (in essence) that it grossed her out to kiss him on camera.
__________________
"Space travelers alight, befester, nebulate"—Arcata, Calif's hilarious Police Log.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-14-2002, 04:47 AM
everton everton is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Oh well, at least I didn't false-remember it. I was only a kid when I first saw the shows, and I didn't understand the reason why they didn't get on, just that they didn't. But I paid closer attention to the kissing afterwards and noticed that there was a little wince there. Seems a little insensitive on her part with hindsight (- not his fault he was gay at a time when it would've wrecked his carreer to admit it).
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-14-2002, 12:16 PM
Eats_Crayons Eats_Crayons is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2000
Quote:
Originally posted by yosemitebabe
Yep, I was always led to believe that was true. I remember reading some a quote from an interview where she basically said (in essence) that it grossed her out to kiss him on camera.
I've heard this also -- that she made a huge big deal about kissing a gay man. However, I didn't have any cite (unless a quote from my hairdresser would be acceptable) so I stuck with the "official story" which was that it was a "contract dispute." Yup. Sure.

So there was no "kill Sally" episode? I suppose that's a good thing because it always drove me crazy believing that I'd missed some hugely significant episode.

Strangely it feels like there were more episodes of McMillan than just six, but when the series is condensed to daily re-runs on A&E, I guess the reitition can make it feel like more.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-02-2012, 07:02 PM
treat123456 treat123456 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Sally Pregnant season one and Four?

I am watching McMillan and wife on Netflix and I am not understanding how Sally is pregnant at the end of season1 and you never hear anything about the baby and then again in season 4. It makes no sense. Does anyone know why they did that?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-03-2012, 07:30 PM
DonLogan DonLogan is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by treat123456 View Post
I am watching McMillan and wife on Netflix and I am not understanding how Sally is pregnant at the end of season1 and you never hear anything about the baby and then again in season 4. It makes no sense. Does anyone know why they did that?
Because they could. It was the 70's, nobody gave a shit, and you didn't have bloggers demanding explanations.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-03-2012, 07:40 PM
dropzone dropzone is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land
Posts: 23,217
Well, you see, Rock was...how can I put this gently?...gayer than a tree full of parrots.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-03-2012, 08:37 PM
RealityChuck RealityChuck is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Schenectady, NY, USA
Posts: 35,666
Quote:
Originally Posted by treat123456 View Post
I am watching McMillan and wife on Netflix and I am not understanding how Sally is pregnant at the end of season1 and you never hear anything about the baby and then again in season 4. It makes no sense. Does anyone know why they did that?
Darren Stevens knows the answer.
__________________
"East is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does."
Purveyor of fine science fiction since 1982.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-03-2012, 10:44 PM
Bryan Ekers Bryan Ekers is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by dropzone View Post
Well, you see, Rock was...how can I put this gently?...gayer than a tree full of parrots.
Gayer than a Fire Island pinwheel factory, he was.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-03-2012, 11:48 PM
MovieMogul MovieMogul is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by yosemite View Post
Yep, I was always led to believe that was true. I remember reading some a quote from an interview where she basically said (in essence) that it grossed her out to kiss him on camera.
Curious, because if someone was paying me to make out with a foxy lesbian, I would be highly professional in not complaining.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-04-2012, 08:01 AM
Hail Ants Hail Ants is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: NY USA
Posts: 5,474
Wow. This has stirred some obscure memories, specifically: I remember when St. James quit and I watched the first episode without her. But I seem to remember John Schuck was still on the show because I recall him doing the clunky exposition in that first episode explaining how she was dead.

However I believe Schuck did eventually leave to do the godawful robo-cop comedy Holmes & Yoyo. And I believe Nancy Walker got a Rhoda spin-off as her mother. Both shows tanked.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-04-2012, 02:57 PM
Horatio Hellpop Horatio Hellpop is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Jinan, China
Posts: 7,753
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Blue Sky View Post
The show only lasted for six episodes in this format due the loss of too many familiar characters.
Six episodes was a full season for McMillan. Four of its six seasons only had six episodes, and the other two had seven or eight. It ran in rotation with two other shows in its Sunday Mystery Movie time slot and lasted a full six seasons. It was never a weekly show. For comparison's sake, McCloud lasted seven seasons. So did Columbo, although there were several attempts at bring it back in the 80s and 90s (with two TV movies in 2000 and 2003). None of the Wednesday Mystery Movie shows lasted anywhere near that long; their biggest success, Banacek, lasted two seasons.

McMillan only lasted one season after the departure of most of its regular cast, but in context, this wasn't a huge failure. Six full seasons is a pretty good run for any TV show.

Last edited by Horatio Hellpop; 02-04-2012 at 02:59 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-04-2012, 03:39 PM
Icerigger Icerigger is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: The Keystone State
Posts: 3,246
Anybody remember, A Cool Million, that was my favorite.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06-15-2014, 09:07 PM
jean stanforth jean stanforth is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Mac and sallys baby born in last show of 4th season

Quote:
Originally Posted by treat123456 View Post
I am watching McMillan and wife on Netflix and I am not understanding how Sally is pregnant at the end of season1 and you never hear anything about the baby and then again in season 4. It makes no sense. Does anyone know why they did that?
The baby is mentioned several times in Love Honor and Swindle, the last show of the 4th season. It was a boy. You never see the baby but they talk about having a baby sitter. Mac tells his mother he and Sally have a baby boy. Sally and the baby die in a plane crash and Mac is a widower at the start of the 6th season. Mildred it is explained has inherited a diner back East so her sister Agatha is now Macs housekeeper
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06-15-2014, 09:12 PM
jean stanforth jean stanforth is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Mac and sallys baby born in last show of 4th season

Quote:
Originally Posted by treat123456 View Post
I am watching McMillan and wife on Netflix and I am not understanding how Sally is pregnant at the end of season1 and you never hear anything about the baby and then again in season 4. It makes no sense. Does anyone know why they did that?
The baby is mentioned several times in Love Honor and Swindle, the last show of the 4th season. It was a boy. You never see the baby but they talk about having a baby sitter. Mac tells his mother he and Sally have a baby boy. Sally and the baby die in a plane crash and Mac is a widower at the start of the 6th season. Mildred it is explained has inherited a diner back East so her sister Agatha is now Macs housekeeper. Susan St James left the show because she wanted more money for year 6. It had nothing to do with Hudson being gay. She said in several articles over the years she made a big mistake asking for more money instead of finishing out the last year of the show.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-15-2014, 11:49 PM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Western New York
Posts: 59,011
Quote:
Originally Posted by jean stanforth View Post
Sally and the baby die in a plane crash
Which is retroactively creepy because Susan St James' real-life son Teddy would be killed in a plane crash in 2004.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 06-16-2014, 12:23 AM
Just Asking Questions Just Asking Questions is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Did she ever come back as a zombie?

(Well, someone had to say it.Twice zombiefied!)

I think Sally and Mac had TWO kids. I'd have to check my DVDs, but I think she was preggers twice. Since the show rarely acknowledged the first kid, maybe the show runners thought no one would notice that the second vanished, teleported out of Sally's womb without a trace. I think the second child was the one where Mac pretends to pick up a pregnant "stranger" Sally at a hotel bar.

Neither kid was ever seen. No only did Mac not weep after the death of his beloved wife, the girl that made a stable one-woman man out of him, nor for the death of his kid(s), he had no trouble banging a succession of beautiful model-quality women in the final season.

Maybe being a playboy/eligible bachelor was his natural state? I guess only in the pre-internet age, or maybe San Francisco, could a public figure such as the police commissioner lead such a "scandalous" lifestyle.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 06-16-2014, 12:30 AM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Western New York
Posts: 59,011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Asking Questions View Post
Maybe being a playboy/eligible bachelor was his natural state?
Maybe he decided a wife and kid was tying him down and he killed them. As a homicide investigator, he knew how to cover up the crime. The only two people who suspected were those closest to him: Mildred and Sgt Enright - so they were the next two to be killed.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 06-16-2014, 01:12 AM
Just Asking Questions Just Asking Questions is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
Maybe he decided a wife and kid was tying him down and he killed them. As a homicide investigator, he knew how to cover up the crime. The only two people who suspected were those closest to him: Mildred and Sgt Enright - so they were the next two to be killed.
It makes sense!


Almost.

One thing I've always wondered is, what happens to TV characters after the show ends? What would you think happened to Mac after 1977? How long can you be PC? I see right now there is a power play with one of the current commissioners, who may lose her seat (there is no one "PC"). It's a very political position.

What do you do when you get ousted from a very cool job where you get to solve mysteries, in between boring budget meetings? Probably go into private law practice, though, solving mysteries of wrongfully accused people week after week. That probably wouldn't make an interesting TV show, though....

I guess he could go back to the CIA.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 06-16-2014, 06:54 AM
Scumpup Scumpup is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Ekers View Post
Gayer than a Fire Island pinwheel factory, he was.
Yes sir, that man was gayer than an explosion in a glitter factory.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 06-16-2014, 08:00 AM
leftfield6 leftfield6 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Above average
Posts: 1,410
Gayer than a handbag full of rainbows.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 06-16-2014, 08:07 AM
Revtim Revtim is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Gayer than a sperm on a mustache.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 06-16-2014, 08:19 AM
Just Asking Questions Just Asking Questions is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revtim View Post
Gayer than a sperm on a mustache.
Oh, that joke went bad fast!
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 06-16-2014, 10:10 AM
kunilou kunilou is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 17,683
Quote:
Originally Posted by treat123456 View Post
I am watching McMillan and wife on Netflix and I am not understanding how Sally is pregnant at the end of season1 and you never hear anything about the baby and then again in season 4. It makes no sense. Does anyone know why they did that?
Right up until the producers decided to actually make a big deal about Henry Blake's death on M*A*S*H, TV characters disappeared with a frequency that would make a serial killer blush.

Some, like Darren Stephens, were recast. Some, like Adam Cartwright, "went to sea," but there were a lot of out and out deaths. Margaret, the first wife on the Danny Thomas Show, Grandmother Lindstrom on Phyllis, even Kate on Petticoat Junction were almost completely ignored after those characters died.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jean stanforth View Post
Mildred it is explained has inherited a diner back East so her sister Agatha is now Macs housekeeper.
That wouldn't be some bizarre meta-shoutout to Nancy Walker being Rosie the Waitress in the Bounty paper towel ads, would it?
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 06-16-2014, 10:14 AM
Evil Captor Evil Captor is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Gayer than Maurice Bachmann doing la cucaracha in full drag at a Pride parade ...

wait ... perhaps I went a Bridge Too Far here ...
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 06-16-2014, 11:14 PM
jabiru jabiru is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 2,695
Quote:
Originally Posted by kunilou View Post
Right up until the producers decided to actually make a big deal about Henry Blake's death on M*A*S*H, TV characters disappeared with a frequency that would make a serial killer blush.

Some, like Darren Stephens, were recast. Some, like Adam Cartwright, "went to sea," but there were a lot of out and out deaths. Margaret, the first wife on the Danny Thomas Show, Grandmother Lindstrom on Phyllis, even Kate on Petticoat Junction were almost completely ignored after those characters died.
I don't remember how or why Mike was written out of My Three Sons but I do remember thinking, even at the time, that it was hilarious they'd adopt the kid next door, just so they'd still have three sons.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 06-17-2014, 09:49 AM
terentii terentii is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by jabiru View Post
I don't remember how or why Mike was written out of My Three Sons but I do remember thinking, even at the time, that it was hilarious they'd adopt the kid next door, just so they'd still have three sons.
IIRC, Mike got married and was never seen again (though he was mentioned occasionally, as was Bub, the housekeeper):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Three_Sons

I'm surprised to read about StJames and Hudson. I never watched M&W, and I don't know how she felt at the time, but I do remember her being interviewed when Hudson died (on ET, I think) and she really came down on those who disparaged him because he was homosexual. Her attitude then (1985) was "So Rock Hudson is gay. So what?!? He was a great guy. His idea of a good time was to stay home in the evening and have homemade ice cream!" (As near as I can remember the quote.)
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 06-17-2014, 11:00 AM
Just Asking Questions Just Asking Questions is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by terentii View Post
...I'm surprised to read about StJames and Hudson. I never watched M&W, and I don't know how she felt at the time ...
As a Wisconsin farmboy, I didn't know the stuff that 'everybody knows', like who was gay, but I did read that SSJ did not like Rock. I think it might have been a passing comment in TV Guide, but it didn't say why. I figured that it was just a personality thing. I also read that Marcia Strassman had similar feeling about Gabe Kaplan, but I don't think he's gay, so it didn't have to be because of that for SSJ and RH.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 06-17-2014, 11:55 AM
terentii terentii is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Asking Questions View Post
As a Wisconsin farmboy, I didn't know the stuff that 'everybody knows', like who was gay, but I did read that SSJ did not like Rock. I think it might have been a passing comment in TV Guide, but it didn't say why. I figured that it was just a personality thing. I also read that Marcia Strassman had similar feeling about Gabe Kaplan, but I don't think he's gay, so it didn't have to be because of that for SSJ and RH.
FWIW, I've heard Florence Henderson could tell Robert Reed was gay the first time she kissed him, but he was apparently disliked by many on the Brady Bunch set because he was just a pain to work with.

There was never the kind of chemistry between Elizabeth Montgomery and Dick Sargent as there was between her and Dick York, but Sargent's homosexuality was apparently never an issue between them and they remained friends for the rest of her life.

Kinda makes you wonder about other "happily married couples" on TV....
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 06-17-2014, 12:22 PM
carnivorousplant carnivorousplant is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Central Arkansas
Posts: 41,747
Quote:
Originally Posted by kunilou View Post
Some, like Adam Cartwright, "went to sea,"
I thought he went to college in Europe.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 06-17-2014, 12:32 PM
RivkahChaya RivkahChaya is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by everton View Post
Oh well, at least I didn't false-remember it. I was only a kid when I first saw the shows, and I didn't understand the reason why they didn't get on, just that they didn't. But I paid closer attention to the kissing afterwards and noticed that there was a little wince there. Seems a little insensitive on her part with hindsight (- not his fault he was gay at a time when it would've wrecked his carreer to admit it).
I thought she was wincing because of that moustache. If he didn't want people to think he was gay, what the hell was he doing with that gay porn moustache? I can't watch the show because all I do is get squicked out by his moustache. And it's not moustaches in general-- my father had a moustache, and no version of TV or movie of Hercule Poirot has ever bothered me, but it was like there were three people in bed in M&W-- Mac, Sally, and the moustache.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 06-17-2014, 12:33 PM
RivkahChaya RivkahChaya is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by carnivorousplant View Post
I thought he went to college in Europe.
That was Chuck Cunningham.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 06-17-2014, 02:00 PM
terentii terentii is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by RivkahChaya View Post
That was Chuck Cunningham.
Didn't he join the Air Force?
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 06-17-2014, 07:51 PM
jabiru jabiru is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 2,695
Quote:
Originally Posted by terentii View Post
IIRC, Mike got married and was never seen again (though he was mentioned occasionally, as was Bub, the housekeeper):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Three_Sons
Thank you. It's many decades since I've seen the show and I never recalled hearing Mike's name mentioned after he was written out.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 06-18-2014, 04:41 AM
Jim's Son Jim's Son is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Susan Saint James was very popular on "MacMillan and Wife". I remember one of those sunday newspaper magazines ("Parade"?) named her as America's favorite tv actress, slightly ahead of Cher. She and her agents could have used this as demands for more money and better perks. Lots of actors did at the time, with varying degrees of success. Carroll O'Connor, Redd Foxx, Farrah Fawcett, Suzanne Somers, Herve Villechaize. In her case, the producers said no, we will try to continue without you.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 06-18-2014, 07:34 AM
spifflog spifflog is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by yosemite View Post
Yep, I was always led to believe that was true. I remember reading some a quote from an interview where she basically said (in essence) that it grossed her out to kiss him on camera.
Not trying to pick a fight on this, but I'll call this urban legend until I see a cite.

There have been a lot of gay male actors. I'd guess this is part of the deal if you're an actress, and it's not like they were having sex on camera on 70s network TV.

I met Susan St. James years ago in a local bar in Connecticut and she came across as a laid back hippie. Doesn't mean that Rock couldn't have rubbed her the wrong way, just that I'd be surprised by it.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 06-18-2014, 07:03 PM
RivkahChaya RivkahChaya is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by spifflog View Post
I met Susan St. James years ago in a local bar in Connecticut and she came across as a laid back hippie. Doesn't mean that Rock couldn't have rubbed her the wrong way, just that I'd be surprised by it.
It's entirely possible they had a personality conflict that had nothing to do with his sexuality. I know a lot of gay men. I like most of them, but there are a few that annoy me, and one in particular who pisses me off to no end, and it has nothing to do with his being gay. He just happens to be a jerk who is gay.

Not that Rock Hudson was a jerk-- there have been people I liked individually who didn't get along with each other for some reason. It happens.

Rock Hudson had chemistry with plenty of women on screen, like Jane Wyman and Elizabeth Taylor, but he was mismatched with Susan St. James. He was 21 years older than she was. Maybe that was part of it.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 06-18-2014, 07:37 PM
Cayuga Cayuga is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
I worked with Susan Saint James for a while in the early 1980s. (You're right, spifflog, she is basically a laid-back former hippie.) We discussed Rock Hudson a couple of times — she was still in contact with him and always spoke of him fondly.

I never asked why she left the show — mostly 'cause I didn't care — but I doubt it had anything to do with Hudson. Probably just salary, but that's a guess.

Last edited by Cayuga; 06-18-2014 at 07:38 PM..
Reply With Quote
Reply



Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@chicagoreader.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Publishers - interested in subscribing to the Straight Dope?
Write to: sdsubscriptions@chicagoreader.com.

Copyright © 2013 Sun-Times Media, LLC.