Concept Albums

While listening to "Diamond Dogs" by David Bowie, when somehting occured to me--this album makes no sense (don't get me wrong, David Bowie still number one on my list of aging rock stars I want to sleep with). Then I realized that concept albums never make sense--so that's my question. Has anyone ever known a concept album to tell an actual story that makes sense? Related question--is "Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness" a concept album? I've heard from people that it is, but I don't like The Smahing Pumpkins because they're a ripoff of My Bloody Valentine, but I have heard several tracks in order and they make no sense. And what about "Sgt. Pepper"?

No bias here (I'm no raving Floyd-head) but Roger Waters perfected the form, I think. These concept albums make perfect sense:

Radio KAOS, Pros & Cons of Hitchhiking, Animals, Wish You Were Here, The Wall

I can think of a few albums that flirt with the idea and pull it off alright ... New York (Lou Reed), Moving Pictures (Rush), My Life in the Bush of Ghosts (B.Eno/D.Byrne), etc.


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"Then you learn the lesson,
That it's tough to be so cool ..."

I think "The Wall" is a fairly understandable story as far as it goes; but I question your premise that "concept album" is equivalent to "telling a story. The "concept" behind "Sgt. Pepper" (to the extent that there was one, and I don't think there was and neither does the band) is that the record was a "performance" by Sgt. Pepper's band, not by "The Beatles."

"Concept" does not equal "story". The closest thing to such an animal is probably The Who's two rock operas, and even they aren't totally coherent stories.

A concept album is simply a record on which all the songs have something in common other than the same artist.

In the case of Sgt. Pepper, there was a theme of unabashed childhood and dream imagery, introspection and experimental recording techniques all performed under the influence of a lot of dope.

I can't speak to the Bowie album you refer to, but I can explain the theme behind "Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars": It's about, well, it's about Ziggy Stardust and...um...and the Spiders from Mars!

Has anyone ever known a concept album to tell an actual story that makes sense?

Sure -- TOMMY and QUADROPHRENIA, for two. Of course, it all depends on your definition of "makes sense," but both have a general narrative thread from beginning to end.

There was also WAR OF THE WORLDS. LOLA VS. POWERMAN AND THE MONEY-GO-ROUND also tells a story, though its narrative is less clear as was other Kinks albums.

More often, a concept album had a bunch of songs relating to a general concept rather than a specific story. LAYLA AND OTHER LOVE SONGS, for instance, is a concept album about love, and especially, Eric Clapton's feelings toward Patti Harrison. Often the concept was rather tenuous (a concert by Sgt. Pepper's band, for instance).

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www.sff.net/people/rothman

IIRC, "Diamond Dogs" was meant to be the soundtrack album for a movie version of "1984" that was never released. I'm not sure if that makes it more understandable, but I thought I'd mention it to make myself seem cool.

How about "2112" by Rush?

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Live a Lush Life
Da Chef

How about "2112" by Rush?

Thanks Chef - I was just about to bring that up. However, I'm not sure the whole album is a concept album - it's mainly the title song. I think their best concpet album was Hemispheres....



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"There is such a fine line between stupid and clever." -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap

I always thought Queensryche's "Operation Mindcrime" told a fairly coherent story.

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"I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it," Jack Handy

Music From The Elder, by KISS, tells a coherant story, although it all sounds like third generation Moody Blues. Another of their albums, Destroyer, kind of tells a story, and is a much better album overall.

Someone mentioned Moving Pictures by Rush. Is it just me, or does anyone else think they numbered the sides wrong? Doesn't "Camera Eye" sound like it should be the first song on the album, and "Limelight" last?

Yes, "Camera Eye" is the best song on that album and should have been first, but it's just under 11 minutes long. I think Mercury Records preferred the radio-friendlies on the other side to be first. So it goes (and I was going to mention "Caress of Steel" myself, but decided to eschew that most obscure of all Rush albums ... ).

Speaking of obscure, I just remembered one of the truly great concept albums: "Captain Lockheed and the Starfighters", by (one of the guys from Hawkwind). Brilliant; but am I the only one who's ever heard it?

I liked "Operation: Mindcrime" also.

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"Then you learn the lesson,
That it's tough to be so cool ..."

It doesn't seem like there are too many hip-hop fans around here, but a producer called Prince Paul released an album called "A Prince Among Thieves" that is a completely coherent story. There is a video that is done like a theatrical trailer with "scenes" from some of the different songs, and Chris Rock just bought rights to actually shoot the album as a movie. If you have an open mind about hip hop music, you should check it out.

I consider these to be concept albums.... but not necessarily in the "Sgt. Pepper" mold. I am sure many will scream in outright horror.

Sgt. Peppers (Beatles)
Dark Side of the Moon (Pink Floyd)
Dirt (Alice in Chains)
Countdown to Extinction (Megadeth)
Master of Puppets (Metallica)

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"Right is only half of what's wrong"

George Harrison

Roger Waters' "Amused to Death" is a brilliant example of a concept album.

Harvey the Heavy:

Music From The Elder, by KISS, tells a coherant story, although it all sounds like third generation Moody Blues.

Weren't there plans at one time to turn "The Elder" into a motion picture?

Master of Puppets is in no way a "concept album" dragonfly, and your "tiny font/aren't I special" trick is lame and screwed up this discussion IMHO. Thanks for nothing.

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"Then you learn the lesson,
That it's tough to be so cool ..."

I agree with RTA. Dragonfly's post has made this thread all but unreadable. Is there someway the moderator can either delete or edit his reply so that we can still use this thread without having to scroll 3 and a half miles to the right?

The best concept album was "Alice Cooper Goes To Hell". This isn't my personal opinion. This is fact.
The second best was the "Spiderman" album put out by Marvel Comics back in the 60's.

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"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
Hunter Thompson

The Moody Blues were famous for their concept albums, most notably Days of Future Past, ("Tuesday Afternoon" and "Knights in White Satin"). It's the story of.. uh.. one day. It makes perfect sense, and has the added bonus of having been performed with the London Festival Orchestra.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled broadcast.

Ahem. Joe's Garage, by Frank Zappa.

Also, Dark Side of the Moon by Pink. Preferably, played as counterpoint to the Wizard of Oz.

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"If A=B, B=C, and C=D, do not get a job proofreading" --Quid's Theorem

Random but relevant thoughts:
I never got Moving Pictures as a concept album. Roll the Bones is a better example, almost all the songs on it dealing with choices, luck and fate. Strange that it was bright and hopeful and the next album sooo dark.

Master of Puppets is no way a concept album, you little twit. Had a little too much weed?

Dark Side and Wizard-my Mom and I rented Wizard and we were blown away. She loved the music, never hearing Floyd before.

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"On the edge of sleep, I awoke to a sun so bright..."

AzRaek said:

Roll the Bones is a better example, almost all the songs on it dealing with choices, luck and fate. Strange that it was bright and hopeful and the next album sooo dark.

I'm not sure of the timing, but could that have been when Peart found out his wife had cancer (she died last year or maybe two years ago, I believe -- and his daughter apparently was killed in a car accident a few months earlier/later).

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"What can be more deluding, or even dangerous, than false comfort that blinds our vision and inspires passivity?"
-- Stephen Jay Gould, Rocks of Ages

So. Every Floyd album is a concept album, HUH? Not hardly.

I know I'll be sorry for asking this, but what makes you 100% positive that Master of Puppets - Metallica - is NOT a concept album?

It has vastly more structure and musical integrity than most of the other "concept" albums that are mentioned here in passing.

Forgot to mention The Rock Opera Tommy by The Who. Without a doubt.

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"Right is only half of what's wrong"

- George Harrison -

Both "2112" and "Hemispheres" are one-side-concept albums, in that side A of both tell a very specific story in one long musical suite. The B sides of both are made up of shorter, unrelated songs.
So I would not call them concept albums, per se (though both are four-star excellent!).

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"Then you learn the lesson,
That it's tough to be so cool ..."

We may have to shake the cob webs from our minds to remember this one, but let's add The Caress Of Steel (side 2, The Fountain Of Lamneth) to the list of one-side concept albums from Rush. IIRC, they wanted to stretch Natural Science out to 20 or so minutes, but were warned against doing any more side-length productions by Terry Brown, who thought the time was over for such lengthy suites.

I miss the concept album format, it doesn't seem like very many people are doing them anymore.

Roger Waters' albums are excellent examples of good and easy-to-comprehend concept albums. This of course includes the Pink Floyd stuff toward the end of the time that he was still with them.

Ruhs's concept albums have always made sense to me (both sides, not just one). But they take more thought. Every album does have a basic theme (except maybe the first one).

It seems funny that no one has mentioned the Alan Parsons Project. Several of their albums have themes, some more obvious than others. Three examples: "Gaudi", "Turn of a Friendly Card", and "Tales of Mystery and Imagination"

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"The day after tomorrow is the third day of the rest of your life." -George Carlin

You have all forgotten Ziggy Stardust by Bowie, Another fine concept album.

And yes, Joe's Garage is a fabulous concept album (and makes me laugh eveytime I hear it also).

Many Talking heads albums could be considered concept albums as well.

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To deal with men by force is as impractical as to deal with nature by persuasion.

It seems funny that no one has mentioned the Alan Parsons Project.

Good point. Keep in mind Pink Floyd's influence on Parsons was profound. IIRC, he produced Dark Side of the Moon and was nominated for a grammy for his work. He was also an engineer on Abbey Road, if memory serves.

What about concept albums outside the realm of Rock? IIRC Merle Travis's "Down Home" and Johnny Cash's "Ride this Train" both predate "Sgt Pepper"!

[quote[You have all forgotten Ziggy Stardust by Bowie, Another fine concept album.[/quote]

A great concept album! That's why I mentioned it 4 posts down from the top of the thread!

A country concept album--Willie Nelson's "The Red-Headed Stranger."

Oops sorry papa bear! <smile>

My bad, after reading all the posts I must have forgotten your mention of Ziggy.



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To deal with men by force is as impractical as to deal with nature by persuasion.

The concept album isn't dead...
Radiohead's OK Computer is a magnificent ode to modern techno-paranoia. Airbag is about a near-car accident, Lucky about a plane crash, Letdown about mass transit and the uselessness thereof, paranoid android is obvious, the third track (title too long) is about an alien abduction. I could go on...
Also, The Wall is an excellent example of the concept album that tells a story (which really makes it a rock opera, something I think is a separate category from concept album)

The concept album isn't dead...
Radiohead's OK Computer is a magnificent ode to modern techno-paranoia. Airbag is about a near-car accident, Lucky about a plane crash, Letdown about mass transit and the uselessness thereof, paranoid android is obvious, the third track (title too long) is about an alien abduction. I could go on...
Also, The Wall is an excellent example of the concept album that tells a story (which really makes it a rock opera, something I think is a separate category from concept album)

Will proceed to make everybody mad, as usual....I don't like concept albums at all. In the best of cases, like "The Wall", they're built around a couple of good songs, but then much of the rest is dull filler that carries the story along, more or less, often unsuccessfully. Even the Who packed "Quadrophenia" and especially "Tommy" with a lot of filler.

I do really like albums like "Highway 61 Revisited" and "Exile on Main Street" in which all the songs have a coherent sound and every song reminds you of every other one and they all just seem to fit together. "Astral Weeks", "London Calling", "Nevermind", "Are You Experienced?", "Blonde on Blonde", and the first one of them all, "Rubber Soul" are other records that all just seem to fit together.

I've always regarded the Styx album "The Grand Illusion" as a concept album, but maybe I see connections between the songs there that others don't...



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I've always regarded the Styx album "The Grand Illusion" as a concept album, but maybe I see connections between the songs there that others don't...



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Designated Optional Signature at Bottom of Post

I don't know if there's ever been a concept album that had a totally coherent narrative, with characters, cause and effect, dramatic structure, and so on, but several already mentioned here had a general kind of story that you could more or less follow by listening to the songs. (Of course, some required a little extra asssitance, such as the picture book and story synopsis in QUADROPHENIA.)

I would add to the list Alice Cooper's THE LAST TEMPTATION. It's easy to follow the general thread: the circus comes to town; the master of ceremonies turns out to be the Devil's minion, trying to tempt the lead character to Hell. More specific plot points were made in the three-part comic that accompanied the record, but this was actually pretty boring; the strenght of the concept rested on the impact of the songs, not on tightly woven narrative threads

Some more obscure ones

The Point - Nilsson

The story of Oblio & his dog Arrow who were banished to the Pointless Forest for not having pointed heads like everyone else. Gave us the song 'Me and my Arrow'

666 - Aphrodites Child (Vangelis et. al.)

Very strange telling of the Apocalypse of John 13/18

Does anyone remember Genesis' "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway"? Or "Tales from Topographic Oceans" by Yes? Classic examples of overblown 70's concept albums (though I really do like them).

Oblio, I think "The Point" was the soundtrack to the animated cartoon. Check www.imdb.com for details.

Your right Guy, I used to play the album often on the air in college before I even saw the animation. IMHO it stands alone as a album but I guess it would be best to leave soundtracks out of the running. Sadly, last I checked both the soundtrack & video were out of print.

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A point in every direction is like no point at all

Alice Cooper is the master of concept albums. Already mentioned are "Alice Cooper Goes to Hell" and "The Last Temptation", but the one that is often upheld by the critics as being the best concept album of all times (and it tells a story) is "Welcome to My Nightmare".

Other Alice Cooper concept albums (not in any order): "From the Inside", "Special Forces", and "Dada". Also many of his albums have what I would call reoccurring themes where a character pops up in scattered songs across an album or even from album to album. Too many to list!

On the Pink Floyd side, I think "Animals", "The Wall" and "The Final Cut" are clearly concept albums, but I question whether "Wish You Were Here" and "Dark Side of the Moon" are concept albums?

Someone mentioned "Joe's Garage" - good one, but how about "The Yellow Shark"? A totally different concept...

Not entirely sure what can of worms I may be opening here, but the album "Chess" by Bjorn Ulvaeus and Benny Rice (the two guys from ABBA) seems to fit the definition of a concept album. I know it was produced with the intent of producing it as a theatrical play eventually (as opposed to some of the other albums here which people decided, after production, would make good movies) but it has a definite story line with characters, plot, etc. What do y'all think?

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Cave Diem! Carpe Canem!

On the Pink Floyd side, I think "Animals", "The Wall" and "The Final Cut" are clearly concept albums, but I question whether "Wish You Were Here" and "Dark Side of the Moon" are concept albums?

I think they pretty much both are--"WYWH" is unquestionably about Syd Barrett and his madness, and about the effects of the record industry and music business on his life. "DSOTM" has a looser concept, but it's about the darker side of the human experience--greed, mortality, insanity, loneliness, etc.

Olentzero said:
"Not entirely sure what can of worms I may be opening here, but the album "Chess" by Bjorn Ulvaeus and Benny Rice (the two guys from ABBA) "

Actually Chess was a musical in the early 80's so i certainly hope all the songs tell a story (although that could explain why no one has seen it since).


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To deal with men by force is as impractical as to deal with nature by persuasion.

Lawrence said:

I do really like albums like "Highway 61 Revisited" and "Exile on Main Street" in which all the songs have a coherent sound and every song reminds you of every other one and they all just seem to fit together. "Astral Weeks", "London Calling", "Nevermind", "Are You Experienced?", "Blonde on Blonde", and the first one of them all, "Rubber Soul" are other records that all just seem to fit together.

I agree with you wholeheartedly, Lawrence. Those are all some of my favorite albums (have you been raiding my CD collection?). I would add to that list "Automatic for the People", "Pet Sounds", and "The Joshua Tree".

By the way, isn't "Freak Out!" by Frank Zappa considered by some to be the first rock concept album? I'm not familiar with it, but that's what I've heard.


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"For what a man had rather were true, he more readily believes" - Francis Bacon

Olentzero:

Not entirely sure what can of worms I may be opening here, but the album "Chess" by Bjorn Ulvaeus and Benny Rice (the two guys from ABBA)

Well, mostly. "Chess" was a musical conceived by Tim Rice (he was Andrew Lloyd Webber's partner on Jesus Christ Superstar, and a couple of others) and Rice used Benny & Bjorn to write the music, while he wrote the lyrics. A pretty good show, with quite a good soundtrack IMHO, but you'll probably never see it performed again since it dealt with many Cold Warish themes.

Waste
Flick Lives!

Nobody likes the Eagles? Remember "Desperado"?

And Riders In The Sky did "Cowboys In Love".




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Ranger Jeff
The Idol of American Youth

Always drink upstream from the herd.

"Chess" didn't come out as a musical until 1989-90. The original album came out around 84-85 (IIRC) and I remember reading that it was put together solely as an album at that time, with the musical slated for later.
At least that's how I remember it, seeing as how I bought the double-cassette album when it first came out, not seeing any advertisements for a Broadway (or otherwise) musical at the time, then seeing the cassette soundtrack for the musical production of 1990 and thinking how pale and lame it had become as the producers tried to revamp it to reflect the post-Berlin Wall era.
Yes, it tells a tale with themes from the Cold War, but that really was the central idea of the whole thing. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be put on anymore. Hell, the Civil War ended in 1865 and Ken Burns' documentary rocked the house. (I go to reenactments too, FWIW )
Back to the topic: I still think "Chess" is a concept album because it meets the plot/characters/etc. requirements that have been put forth by some people here, and that it was put out more or less as a stand-alone project at the time it was originally issued.

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Cave Diem! Carpe Canem!

Let's not forget Husker Du's "Zen Arcade."



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Tim
"My hovercraft is full of eels."

I guess I'm not sure what the definition of "concept album" is. How about
Beethoven's 6th symphony?
West Side Story (Original Broadway cast recording?)
Rhino Record's CD of x different versions of Louie Louie?
etc...

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Jacques Kilchoer
Workers of the world, unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains.