Beautiful Women are Coming to Nigeria! Let's Riot!

[Mehitabel]

The BBC is reporting that fifty people may be dead in Kanduna, Nigeria after protests turned into riots against the Miss World contest and an article in a newspaper that said the women were so beautiful Muhammed himself might have married one.


WTF???

First of all, the reason it's in Nigeria is because Agbani Darego is Miss World this year. Not to insult Islam, not to flaunt Western standards during Ramadan, etc. Second of all, if you don't want to support the contest, don't go. Don't buy magazines and newspapers or watch the TV show. If you're a clergyman, mention from the pulpit why Islam doesn't allow this (oh, but it allows polygamy and female circumcision, doesn't it dipshits) and that you'd rather your people don't watch the contest and then LEAVE IT TO THEM TO DECIDE.

Maybe it wasn't the brightest idea for ThisPaper to print that article in such a divided city; maybe it was a little tactless and people should have sent it strongly worded letters. But Gawd almighty, rioting? Burning stores and killing each other?? Over a beauty contest?

I know there's lots of subtext going on here--the threatened boycott by the contestants themselves over the Amina Laval case, the north/south divide, etc. And on a day when there's been two huge bombings in Israel and the shooting of an missionary in Lebanon who had the effrontery to be a nurse at a clinic, Islam does not need yet another bad image.

Picket signs. You'll get on the news with picket signs. And nobody has to die.

[Mehitabel]

Just adding that I know that Islam does NOT really allow FGM, just that these clergymen are the type to say it does.

Nor am I saying that nobody should have an issue of any kind w/ beauty contests, even in America. Just that the response of rioting is totally out of proportion.

[Wabbit]

Yea, once again these morons are showing that there's just no fun in fundamentalism.

[Bryan Ekers]

Originally posted by Wabbit
Yea, once again these morons are showing that there's just no fun in fundamentalism.

No, but a lot of it is mental.

[cuauhtemoc]

Originally posted by Mehitabel
Maybe it wasn't the brightest idea for ThisPaper to print that article in such a divided city; maybe it was a little tactless and people should have sent it strongly worded letters. But Gawd almighty, rioting? Burning stores and killing each other?? Over a beauty contest

And that's the difference between the West and the Third World (well, some places in the Third World). It puts those crackpot letters to the editor you always see in newspapers in perspective, doesn't it? You could read them and go "Jesus, what the hell kind of country am I living in?" or you could think "Well, at least they're not rioting and suicide-bombing."

[World Eater]

I dunno, I've read a few letters to the ed that have made me want to bludgeoned a few people. I guess the difference is I'm not a complete fucking idiot animal.

[masonite]

Their religion of peace prompts them to burn people alive in the name of sexual morality? Where do I sign up? My eyes have been opened! America is the Great Satan!!

[Mehitabel]

It gets better, folks. Now they're burning chruches! Yep, those nasty Christians will wake up, look on the smouldering ruins of their places of worship, and realize that females in swimsuits are the root of all evil.

[Mehitabel]

Churches. Oh, well, at least I learned how to do the URL thing today.

Oh yeah, the paper has printed two apologies and retractions, etc. Hasn't helped.

[milroyj]

Now, now Mehitable, one mustn't criticize the Religion of Peace, or its adherents Who Behave Badly. Nay, they must be UNDERSTOOD. After all, different religion, different culture. Tis not for us Western infidels to criticize. Plus, you get bonus points, if in coming to your great UNDERSTANDING, you can blame Americans and Jews in the process. Go forth, seek to UNDERSTAND, and sin no more. Carry on.

[Mehitabel]

You mispelled my name, but I don't mind because I'm a cat. Toujours gai.

Just hate having to add yet another country to those I Must Understand. My 'Fuck 'em all!' reaction must be Why People Hate Americans.

The news gets even worse--people were burned alive in the streets! Crowds were actually chanting "Down with beauty!"

That says it all.

[TwistofFate]

Originally posted by milroyj
Now, now Mehitable, one mustn't criticize the Religion of Peace, or its adherents Who Behave Badly. Nay, they must be UNDERSTOOD. After all, different religion, different culture. Tis not for us Western infidels to criticize. Plus, you get bonus points, if in coming to your great UNDERSTANDING, you can blame Americans and Jews in the process. Go forth, seek to UNDERSTAND, and sin no more. Carry on.

You really are a fucktard.

The Miss World Pagent is being used as a pretext for fundamental idiots to incite hatred against people of another religion.

It has nothing to do with Islam itself.

[TwistofFate]

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_714198.html

"The Red Cross says thousands of Muslims have sought refuge in army bases and police stations from mobs of revenge seeking Christian youths."

Still want to say its Islam at fault?

[Testy]

Originally posted by TwistofFate
You really are a fucktard.

The Miss World Pagent is being used as a pretext for fundamental idiots to incite hatred against people of another religion.

It has nothing to do with Islam itself.

Of course, it never is Islam. It's always those horrible fundy types that seem to control the religion. Sooner or later, people will start asking exactly what the difference is.

Testy

[Princhester]

Originally posted by milroyj
Now, now Mehitable, one mustn't criticize the Religion of Peace, or its adherents Who Behave Badly. Nay, they must be UNDERSTOOD. After all, different religion, different culture. Tis not for us Western infidels to criticize. Plus, you get bonus points, if in coming to your great UNDERSTANDING, you can blame Americans and Jews in the process. Go forth, seek to UNDERSTAND, and sin no more. Carry on.

Would you make the same comment about christianity after an IRA or Ulster unionist bombing? Or do you only make this sort of comment when the religion is one other than your own?

[TwistofFate]

Originally posted by Testy
Of course, it never is Islam. It's always those horrible fundy types that seem to control the religion. Sooner or later, people will start asking exactly what the difference is.

Testy

nope, its the Fundies that make the news. You dont hear reports on the hundreds of millions of Muslims who adhere to their religion and don't do anything wrong.

[Testy]

but never have a problem raising a crowd for a riot or to go and kill a few of those infidels down the street. If it weren't for the passive support of all those millions of practicing Muslims then the fundys would have a much harder time of it.

Testy

[Efrem]

Quit passively supporting child molestation testy. You make me sick.

[jjimm]

100 Dead so far.

I should point out that often the catalyst for a riot isn't the actual reason for the riot.

[TwistofFate]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/2500793.stm

some info on Kaduna.

[Testy]

Originally posted by Efrem
Quit passively supporting child molestation testy. You make me sick.

Well, sorry to hear about your illness and hope you get better soon.

Testy.

[jjimm]

Testy, I don't know how my name got into your title, but it wasn't me! It was someone else! I was never near the place! Honest. I was... I was at the garden centre, that's it. Yes. The garden centre. Buying... um... plant food.

[jjimm]

The OP is incorrect: the riots weren't about Miss World. They were because a newspaper insulted the Prophet Mohammed with relation to Miss World. Read here.

[yojimbo]

um jjimm from the OP

The BBC is reporting that fifty people may be dead in Kanduna, Nigeria after protests turned into riots against the Miss World contest and an article in a newspaper that said the women were so beautiful Muhammed himself might have married one

[Liberal]

Gah. Why is every mention of Muhammed blasphemous? What would they do if they had to endure the kind of surfeiting and profane use of his name that Christians endure with respect to Jesus here at Straight Dope?

[jjimm]

What, you're saying I have to read the OPs now?

OK sorry.

Seriously though, I can't find anywhere in the news that says the riots were against the Miss World contest per se.

[TwistofFate]

Originally posted by Libertarian
Gah. Why is every mention of Muhammed blasphemous? What would they do if they had to endure the kind of surfeiting and profane use of his name that Christians endure with respect to Jesus here at Straight Dope?

I think the beef some people would have with the artile was that the author presumed to speak for Mohammed (which is a big no no), and the uproar over that snowballed into the protests about the contest itself. Which in turn snowballed into the widespread rioting and counterrioting that happens in Kaduna at any given oppertunity. There's alot of tension in that area.

[zigaretten]

A couple of points.....

Nigeria was a military dictatorship until 1999 when they adopted democracy. There wasn't, and still isn't, a lot of agreement over what form this democracy should take. The end of the dictatorship resulted in a lot of people losing power and they weren't/aren't real happy about it.

Nigeria is about 50/50 Muslim/Christian. The division between the two groups is physical (north/south), tribal and political.

Since the end of the dictatorship the country has been rocked by one riot after another:

http://www.dawn.com/2001/10/15/top18.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/1110791.stm

http://www.africaonline.com/site/Articles/1,3,43794.jsp

There is a lot more going on here than just an artcle in a newspaper.

[World Eater]

Well I'll speak for Mohammad.

<Mohammad>
STOP KILLING PEOPLE YOU STUPID FUCKS, THEY HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE NEWSPAPER ARTICLE!
</Mohammad>

[Shodan]

A quote from Miss Nigeria/Miss World's bio:

I wish to be a successful Computer Scientist and Super Model.

How will she bring that off? Designer pocket protectors?

Regards,
Shodan

[milroyj]

Originally posted by TwistofFate
The Miss World Pagent is being used as a pretext for fundamental idiots to incite hatred against people of another religion.

It has nothing to do with Islam itself.

Munich Olympic Massacre, September 5, 1972

Entebbe Hostage Crisis, June 27, 1976

Iran Hostage Crisis, November 4, 1979

Grand Mosque Seizure, November 20, 1979

Bombing of U.S. Embassy in Beirut, April 18, 1983

Bombing of Marine Barracks, Beirut, October 23, 1983

Hizballah Restaurant Bombing, April 12, 1984

TWA Hijacking, June 14, 1985

Achille Lauro Hijacking, October 7, 1985

Egyptian Airliner Hijacking, November 23, 1985

Berlin Discoteque Bombing, April 5, 1986

Pan Am 103 Bombing, December 21, 1988

Bombing of the Israeli Embassy in Argentina, March 17, 1992

World Trade Center Bombing, February 26, 1993

Jerusalem Bus Attack, August 21, 1995

Saudi Military Installation Attack, November 13, 1995

Egyptian Embassy Attack, November 19, 1995

Hamas Bus Attack, February 26, 1996

Dizengoff Center Bombing, March 4, 1996

West Bank Attack, May 13, 1996

Zekharya Attack, June 9, 1996

Khobar Towers Bombing, June 25, 1996

Empire State Building Sniper Attack, February 23, 1997

Israeli Shopping Mall Bombing, September 4, 1997

Tourist Killings in Egypt, November 17, 1997

U.S. Embassy Bombings in East Africa, August 7, 1998

Attack on U.S.S. Cole, October 12, 2000

Manila Bombing, December 30, 2000

Bus Stop Bombing, April 22, 2001

Tel-Aviv Nightclub Bombing, June 1, 2001

Hamas Restaurant Bombing, August 9, 2001

September 11, 2001

Many more Palestinian Homicide-bomber attacks

French tanker attack

Bali Nightclub bombing

Are you also going to say that none of the above have anything to do with Islam? Nothing at all? No connection?

[World Eater]

A fucking resume of evil, thats for damn sure.

[Tamerlane]

Are you also going to say that none of the above have anything to do with Islam? Nothing at all? No connection?

Not me. But I will say that a several them don't ( Entebbe or Munich for example - the PLO was/is explicitly secular with a certain percentage of Christian members ). Just a nitpick. Carry on.

- Tamerlane

[milroyj]

Originally posted by Tamerlane
Not me. But I will say that a several them don't ( Entebbe or Munich for example - the PLO was/is explicitly secular with a certain percentage of Christian members ). Just a nitpick. Carry on.

- Tamerlane

For a secular organization, the PLO certainly seems to have a particular beef with Israeli Jews, as opposed to Israelis in general. The Passover attack at Netanya (sp) for example.

[masonite]

They moved the pageant to London!

The terrorists have already won.

[Mehitabel]

I was away all day at work w/o Internet access and I come home to this.

I guess it's for the best--the riots were starting to spread to Abuja, the city that the contest was being held in instead of messy-to-begin-with Kaduna, and people who had nothing to do with anything were being killed.

But dammit, why can't these folks learn how to protest without killing a gazillion innocent people? And do they really think that killing random people in the street will vindicate the "insult" to Mohammed?

And let's not drag the IRA and stuff into this. Their crimes were committed over a land dispute, and although the offenders were Catholic it's not like they were doing it in the NAME of the Catholic Church or Jesus himself. Believe me, I grew up in a Bronx Irish neighborhood and there were/are plenty of IRA types passing through here.

[Tamerlane]

For a secular organization, the PLO certainly seems to have a particular beef with Israeli Jews, as opposed to Israelis in general. The Passover attack at Netanya (sp) for example.

Sadly anti-Semitism isn't solely the province of the religious fanatic. Plain old ethnic tribalism generates more than hatred to fuel the engines of bigotry.

- Tamerlane

[Tamerlane]

...more than enough hatred...

[Princhester]

Originally posted by milroyj
Are you also going to say that none of the above have anything to do with Islam? Nothing at all? No connection?

Of course there is a connection. All of your quoted outrages involved muslims. You chose them for that reason. You chose not to name any outrages by non-muslims, although you certainly could have, (assuming that you are capable of taking your blinkers off, something I very much doubt)

Quite probably, you wouldn't see outrages by non-muslims in those terms, you would see such outrages as being tribal battles, fights over land or power, nationalism, or some other cause. You would allow a deeper understanding. But because you are blinkered, all you see is that the outrages you list are committed by muslims, and you assume that to be the relevant cause.

Mehitabel illustrates the point beautifully. I bring up the IRA and Ulster Unionists and he jumps on that and says don't drag them into this, their troubles are a land claim. Are they? Maybe they are, but they sure as hell sound like fights over religion, unless you show a bit of understanding.

[milroyj]

Originally posted by Princhester
Quite probably, you wouldn't see outrages by non-muslims in those terms, you would see such outrages as being tribal battles, fights over land or power, nationalism, or some other cause.

Um, no, I don't see:

Achile Lauro (pushing an old man in a wheelchair into the sea, nice touch)

Pan Am 103

September 11, 2001 (May perpetual light shine upon them)

The bloody, evil, disgusting, murder of Mr. Pearl

The Bali bombings

:as anything to do with tribal battles, fights over land or power, or nationalism.

What do you see them as?

[Dave_D]

Originally posted by masonite
They moved the pageant to London!

The terrorists have already won.

Yup, and I'm sure a rich country like Nigeria certainly wouldn't have benefitted from the money something like this could have brought into the country

[gobear]

Of course, the victims of these riots will turn out to have stashed away millions of dollars and only you can help. Now if you'll just give us your name, SS #, and PIN #, we'll share the wealth with you.

[matt_mcl]

Here's what editorialist Rex Murphy had to say:

...Dropping this quintessential piece of Western wretched excess into a culture and country not likely to be attuned or appreciative to the utility of cleavage on parade, and Grade 3 speeches on world peace, wasn't a great nugget of wisdom to begin with.

...This is worth pausing to think about. Should there have been, by whatever weird combination of circumstances, 200 people killed in any Western city of the globe, and should the Miss World pageant in any way have been implicated in such a slaughter, every media outlet on the continent would be wringing its hands 24 hours a day with specials and panels and experts non stop.

The contest would be history. They've halted Olympics for less, and Miss World, whatever it is (and that's a good question), is unquestionably not the Olympics.

What do they plan to do? Dedicate the bathing suit parade to the Nigerian dead? Have a minute of silence before the dance routine? Sing a dirge in their evening gowns? What do they think of the current Miss World, Miss Nigeria, is going to do? Hang crepe from her tiara?

...There are times the simply ridiculous – Miss World contests – become absolutely immoral, and vile to boot. This is one of them.

[BF]

No riot would be complete without a fatwa.

[Mehitabel]

For the love of Gawd, people, they didn't suddenly decide Let's Go to Nigeria. They went there because MISS NIGERIA WON LAST YEAR. SHE WAS THE FIRST BLACK AFRICAN TO DO SO AND IT WAS GOING TO BE A SPECTACULAR SHOWCASING THE BEST OF THE LARGEST COUNTRY IN WEST AFRICA TO OVER TWO BILLION PEOPLE WATCHING.

Now Nigerians have to be embarrassed that they'll be seen as a backwards, superstititous country where people can get KILLED about a beauty contest! Non-Muslim Nigerians, to judge from the BBC Africa boards, are quite ashamed and angry at the North.

[gobear]

Dangaladima told AFP: "The state government did not on its own pass the fatwa. It's a fact that Islam prescribes the death penalty on anybody, no matter his faith, who insults the Prophet.

"Therefore the state government has retained this verdict as it applies to Isioma. This is our position," he said, explaining that Islamic youth organisations had come to the Zamfara government to ask for action against the offending journalist

You can expect to have people here plead that Islam is the Religion of Peace^TM and that the article must mean something else other than what it says. According to many posters here, religion is a benevolent force for good and that there has never been any conflict inspired by any religion at any time in the history of the world.

My idea is, that people, being bastards, delete the passages about love, peace, and tolerance from various holy texts to use religions as rallying points for hate, and then when called on their perversion of faith, say, "But our religion teaches only peace." This phenomenon isn't unique to Muslims; it's pretty common around the world--just look at Europe in the 16th century.

Of course, there's more going on here than religion; Nigeria is a dirt-poor country with a bloated, entrenched kleptocracy that has looted the country and left the citizenry poor, uneducated, and ripe for ethnic clashes and relgious zealotry.

[everton]

Originally posted by matt_mcl (quoting Rex Murphy)
They've halted Olympics for less, and Miss World, whatever it is (and that's a good question), is unquestionably not the Olympics.

No doubt Murphy is right that the contest should have been withdrawn from Nigeria due to the riots (the Mayor of London doesn't want it here either), but when did this happen exactly?

VI^e -- Cancelled due to World War I
XII^e -- Cancelled due to World War II
XIII^e -- Cancelled due to World War II
XX^e -- 1972 Munich, West Germany. Oh that's the one he means is it? But after suspending competition for 24 hours and holding a memorial service attended by 80,000 at the main stadium, 84-year-old outgoing IOC president Avery Brundage and his committee ordered “the Games must go on.”

Funny definition of “less” if you ask me.

[Una Persson]

A fatwa is an ordered hit - no more different than an organized crime hit. It's ordered not because Allah or Mohammed is offended; rather because some person or group believes themselves offended, and wants to show their power. It's a criminal act of intimidation and terrorism, and any person who agrees with it or remains in a church or sect* that supports it is complicit in that act, and should be treated as a terrorist.

I want to see the links to widespread, universal public statments of condemnation by Muslim religious leaders over this fatwa now. I want to see the majority of the leaders of Islam come out to publicly castigate the people who called for this terrorist act. Not all of them, and not even most, as that would not be fair - I just want to see a majority.

Think those links will be rolling on in? I guess we'll have to wait and see...

*_{Now, since I know Ugly Americans^TM like myself are not allowed to criticize anyone, anywhere, anytime, as we are all tryannical intolerant murdering planet-raping ignorant backwoods scum who only want to commit genocide and cram Christian Hate down the throat of the oppressed peoples of the World - I should clarify that by "church" or "sect" I do not refer to Islam in general or even localized to a country - but refer to it in the very specific case of the followers of people like the gentleman calling for the fatwa. I no more believe that the average Muslim worldwide supports these things than I believe that the average Christian wants to burn down the local library. But great galloping fuck - can't they see that continued silence on these things only gives the appearance of approval? No, in a perfect world, people should not have to weigh-in on every single political position, atrocity, and act - but when you are in a leadership position of a religion - any religion - you have to take some responsibility to the acts of others in your religion. It's part of your freaking job as an appointed officer of your church. Fuck, this is not rocket science, people, and the continued defense of terrorists under the guise of "you just don't *understand* why fatwa's are needed by the Religion of Peace" that I see here on this Board and have seen for years now sickens me.}

[Bongmaster]

Originally posted by Mehitabel
Just hate having to add yet another country to those I Must Understand. My 'Fuck 'em all!' reaction must be Why People Hate Americans.

The news gets even worse--people were burned alive in the streets! Crowds were actually chanting "Down with beauty!"

That says it all.

It sure does. Personally I think people like that need to hate someone, anyone, and the US is the easiest target.

[yojimbo]

Originally posted by Anthracite
Now, since I know Ugly Americans^TM like myself are not allowed to criticize anyone, anywhere, anytime, as we are all tryannical intolerant murdering planet-raping ignorant backwoods scum who only want to commit genocide and cram Christian Hate down the throat of the oppressed peoples of the World

You must get very tired carrying that cross around all the time. Aaawww poor little Anthracite. I don't know but maybe people are just disagreeing with you and not your Nationality.

Fuck, this is not rocket science, people, and the continued defense of terrorists under the guise of "you just don't *understand* why fatwa's are needed by the Religion of Peace" that I see here on this Board and have seen for years now sickens me.

Continued defense? I read quite a bit of this board. Where are people saying that fatwa's are needed and terrorists defended? A couple of cites would be nice as it's "continued defense"

Cheers.