Cave Being of Ras el Khaima

[TridCloudwalker]

I found an incredibly fascinating website call Anomalies Unlimited. In it they have a picture and a loosely translated story of an unexplained "creature." Has anyone heard of this before, and is it a legit story? I'm not asking if the creature is real, only if the story is. Or is it some prank turned urban legend, Or could it be a hoax perpetrated by the Uninted Arab Emerates to create more interest (tourist, scientific, etc) in their lands?

Here's the link to the story: http://www.anomalies-unlimited.com/CaveBeing.html

[Tuckerfan]

Looks like some of the drawings I've seen of the chupacabra. Somebody alert Art Bell! He'll get to the bottom of this!

[Duck Duck Goose]

The picture and story are posted word-for-word on a number of "weird stuff" and paranormal websites.

It just looks like mummified human remains to me. No doubt someone got hold of the picture and made up a story to go with it.

[TridCloudwalker]

Mummified remains of what? It's not human. Look at the feet and legs. And the coloring is all wrong for mummified flesh. Believe me, I'm one of the most skeptical person when it comes to these things, but this one I really can't explain. All I know is what ever the "beast" is it's not human. It could in fact be a cave gremlin, or it might just be a sculpted piece of latex, but it cant be a mummified human or ape.

[Duck Duck Goose]

Well, okay, then, it's a rubber doll. << shrug >>

I can tell you what it isn't--it isn't a "cave gremlin".

Because there is no such thing as a "cave gremlin".

Have you ever heard the word "cryptozoology"? Want some links?

[Hrdygrdymn]

I think we can rule out cave gremlin. They bury their dead in another dimension. Proportionately it could be the body of a child that has been mummified either naturally or by humans.

It isn't black like Egyptian mummies because much of their blackness is due to the resins used during the mummification and wrapping processes.

My suggestion is that either:

1. A fair bit of calcification has taken place. In limestone or halite caves, as water percolates from above, calcium or other mineral salts dissolve from the overlying rock, then precipitate and crystalize when they contact the air (as with stalactites). Human objects left in old mines and caves are sometimes found with a whitish rock casing after several decades. Calcification may also account for the perculiar shape of the hands and feet.

2. Its a hoax. The red eyes look suspicious.

[voltaire]

Originally posted by Hrdygrdymn
I think we can rule out cave gremlin. They bury their dead in another dimension. Proportionately it could be the body of a child that has been mummified either naturally or by humans.

It isn't black like Egyptian mummies because much of their blackness is due to the resins used during the mummification and wrapping processes.

My suggestion is that either:

1. A fair bit of calcification has taken place. In limestone or halite caves, as water percolates from above, calcium or other mineral salts dissolve from the overlying rock, then precipitate and crystalize when they contact the air (as with stalactites). Human objects left in old mines and caves are sometimes found with a whitish rock casing after several decades. Calcification may also account for the perculiar shape of the hands and feet.

2. Its a hoax. The red eyes look suspicious.

Now that's just a great post for someone on their third post at SDMB. Welcome to the board!

[voltaire]

Wait, has anyone actually read the text under the picture? The story behind how the picture was taken is ridiculous....

This picture has been released as a police report evidence in the UAE. The story is that a young man went in the caves in Ras el Khaimah to take pictures in caves known to be deserted, with a friend. He had been warned not to go. The person who had been with him called the police saying he had seen his friend's flash go off and then his friend screamed. He called his friend but never got an answer and got scared that he'd fallen so went to the police. A few hours later they found the man in the cave dead and the single picture found in his camera is this one.

[Squink]

This Jeff Rense site provides a closeup of the face, as well as a debunking. Of course, the debunking is not well documented. An interested reader provides a detailed debunk of the debunk. Art Bell is aware of the creature.
With regard to the "photograph": I've found it at several sources, and it appears to be identical in each case. The color is bad enough that it might actually be a colorized B&W picture. Surprisingly, the image appears to be a directly scanned photograph, as opposed to a picture from a magazine. There's no dot pattern visible, but close examination, particulary of the enlargement, shows digitization artifacts. Whoever first put this out on the internet seems to have had access to the original image, or a photographic copy thereof. The question is, where'd they get it ?

[Hrdygrdymn]

Voltaire,

Thanks for the compliment. They are a rare commodity these days. For the record, I've only recently begun posting because I've spent the last 15 years (since I got the first Straight Dope) working on the omniscience thing and well...

...it's taking longer than I thought.

[Podkayne]

Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose
[b]The picture and story are posted word-for-word on a number of "weird stuff" and paranormal websites.

This is a complete and utter tangent, but doesn't this phenomenon--the propagation of (nearly) identical copies of webpages, articles, etc.--seem to be characteristic of fringey websites?

Maybe it's because the devotees of these subjects don't tend to have long-term stable web hosting (like academic institutions for example) so, after losing some "valuable" references, the paranormal enthusiasts start copying and displaying stuff on their own webpages to safeguard their sources.

[Duck Duck Goose]

Oh, yeah, absolutely, they copy off each other's test papers all the time, even right down to the typos. None of them would dream of searching out an original source--they just Copy and Paste whatever "Joe Blow's UFOs" has on his website right into their own website.

I don't think you can blame it on lack of long-term web hosting, I think it's just sheer laziness.

[Podkayne]

Oh, you know me, DDG, I'll buy that explanation, too. I was just trying to be charitable.

The greater crime, IMHO, is that one frequently sees news stories where, even if at some point in the past the article had a legitimate attribution, after a few generations of cuts 'n' pastes, it gets scrambled, lost, reinvented, rescrambled, translated to Finnish, then Tagalog, then Swahili, and then lost again, so you'll find the same article on nine different web pages with bylines from the New York Times (on five different dates), and also from Scientific American, the Journal of the American Medical Association, and the Ladies Home Journal.

If you're trying to track down the original source, these random attributions are maddening. To the casual reader who only sees one copy, I'm afraid, the bylines are simply convincing.

[Truth Seeker]

Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose
I don't think you can blame it on lack of long-term web hosting, I think it's just sheer laziness.

I think it's more fundamental than that. The way these people copy and post things verbatim is symptomatic of the very reason they believe in these things in the first place. These people are unable to critically differentiate between different kinds of evidence and their reliability. When they read something like this, it never occurs to most of them to do an independent investigation. Rather, they simply assume that since they read it, it must be true.

[Bren_Cameron]

When in doubt, search Snopes.

http://www.snopes.com/cgi-bin/ultima...;f=25;t=000506

The photo is apparently from Cheddar Showcaves & Gorge, the thing is part of a display there.

[Bren_Cameron]

I should add, for people who don't feel like reading the whole thread, someone emailed Cheddar Showcaves & Gorge (which is a tourist attraction in Somerset, England) and they responded, confirming that it is, indeed, a sculpture that's part of a display of theirs.

[asterion]

2. Its a hoax. The red eyes look suspicious.

Yeah, that face, especially in the second link, looks photoshopped on.

[hibernicus]

So, in the Jeff Rense page linked by Squink, Kate Walton is quoted as follows:

----- Original Message -----
From: <mailto:caves@visitcheddar.co.uk>Cheddar Caves
To: Rick-
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 3:39 AM
Subject: Re: A QUESTION ON THE CAVE

Dear Rick
Unfortunately, this particular plaster goblin is not one of our exhibits. However we do have plaster goblins, but perhaps not as evil looking as the picture you sent!
If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to e-mail me.
Many thanks
Kate Walton
Personal Assistant
Cheddar Caves and Gorge

whereas on snopes, two emails from her (sometime in late October 02) are quoted as follows:

Yes, the sculpture featured in the attachment does exist in Crystal
Quest. Crystal Quest is a Fantasy Adventure in Cox's Cave. There is a
storyline running throughout the Quest which consists of Dungeons and
Dragons. To add atmosphere to the quest we also installed mannequins,
lighting, sound and special effects. Some people can find the quest
rather scary, however other people are not bothered at all, it really
depends on your disposition.

I hope this has answered your question.

Many thanks

Kate Walton
Cheddar Caves & Gorge

and

-----------------------------
Yes, this evil looking monster does certainly exist in Crystal Quest.
However I must admit that it looks far scarier in the picture than it
does in real life.

I hope this has solved this ongoing internet debate !

Many thanks
-------------------------------

Kate Walton
Cheddar Caves

I fear "they" have got to Kate Walton.

[Squink]

The photo is apparently from Cheddar Showcaves & Gorge, the thing is part of a display there.

So now we have dueling claims for what Kate Walton at Cheddar caves said about the photo.
From alleged 'Walton' email on Rense site: "Unfortunately, this particular plaster goblin is not one of our exhibits."
From alleged 'Walton' email at Snopes: "Yes, the sculpture featured in the attachment does exist in Crystal Quest."
The email address for Walton at cheddar cave (http://www.visitcheddar.co.uk/) is given correctly in the Rense article. The thread in snopes fails to provide an email address for Walton.
That puts us back where we were before checking snopes.
The Crystal Quest ‘dark walk’ was designed by a company called “Scenic Route”. Here’s one of the statues they created for the display. The style is drastically different from that of our goblin boy.
This site contains a picture of the Aug/Sep 1995 (issue #52) article in the Fortean Times, which claimed that the goblin picture was from Cheddar. The site also reproduces an email from Kate Walton, in which she claims “this particular plaster goblin is not one of our exhibits.”
It bears the same timestamp and is almost identical to the email displayed on the Rense site.
-Must be a form letter.

As Asterion mentioned, the eyes look funny, but the debunking still seems to rest on little better ground than the original story.

[Mangetout]

Originally posted by Hrdygrdymn
...It isn't black like Egyptian mummies because much of their blackness is due to the resins used during the mummification and wrapping processes....

I believe that this isn't actually correct (although it was once thought to be the case and appears to be in wide circulation - the modern word mummy derives from the word mumi(y)a - a kind of tar, which the bodies do resemble, but the preserved remains are black and glossy because they were dehydrated by burying in a mound of salts, making a sort of human jerky).

[Tuckerfan]

Originally posted by Mangetout
I believe that this isn't actually correct (although it was once thought to be the case and appears to be in wide circulation - the modern word mummy derives from the word mumi(y)a - a kind of tar, which the bodies do resemble, but the preserved remains are black and glossy because they were dehydrated by burying in a mound of salts, making a sort of human jerky).

[Homer Simpson]Mmmm. Human jerky! <massive drooling sounds>[/HS]

[Mangetout]

The story is that a young man went in the caves in Ras el Khaimah to take pictures in caves known to be deserted, with a friend. He had been warned not to go...

DON'T GO IN THERE!!...it's...it's...<GASP>...known to be DESERTED!!!

[Bren_Cameron]

Originally posted by Squink
So now we have dueling claims for what Kate Walton at Cheddar caves said about the photo...
The site also reproduces an email from Kate Walton, in which she claims “this particular plaster goblin is not one of our exhibits.”
It bears the same timestamp and is almost identical to the email displayed on the Rense site.
-Must be a form letter.

As Asterion mentioned, the eyes look funny, but the debunking still seems to rest on little better ground than the original story.

So the obvious thing to do, I thought, was email them myself and ask. And I just got an answer today.

From: Cheddar Caves
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 3:32 AM
To: XX
Subject: RE: Photo of strange statue?

Yes, this sculpture can be found in one of our smaller caves called "Cox's Cave". At first we did not think that it was one of our goblins as it looked far scarier in the photo than it did in real life, which may explain why you had conflicting e-mails.

Sorry for any confusion

Yours sincerely

Kate Walton
Cheddar Caves & Gorge

-----Original Message-----
From: XX
Sent: 08 December 2002 04:24
To: caves@visitcheddar.co.uk
Subject: Photo of strange statue?

Hi!

I ran across this picture on the net--

http://www.anomalies-unlimited.com/CaveBeing.html

And I read in one place (
http://www.snopes.com/cgi-bin/ultima...;f=25;t=000506) that it was part of a display of yours, that you had confirmed this by email,
but in another place, ( http://www.rense.com/general25/chups.htm ) that
you had said in an email that it was *not* one of your exhibits. Could you tell me, is it yours or not? And what's the story with the conflicting emails?

Thanks so much for your time and attention!

[Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor]

Originally posted by Hrdygrdymn
Voltaire,

Thanks for the compliment. They are a rare commodity these days. For the record, I've only recently begun posting because I've spent the last 15 years (since I got the first Straight Dope) working on the omniscience thing and well...

...it's taking longer than I thought.

Bub, you display a measure of talent. You seem to be just the kind of Doper we need.
Welcome!

[toadspittle]

It's Gollum.


Duh.

[Squink]

So the obvious thing to do, I thought, was email them myself and ask. And I just got an answer today.

Great ! This new and different email pretty much puts things to rest.
Unless you're a part some vast worldwide conspiracy to convince us that cave-goblins don't exist...

Nah !

[tanstaafl]

So the obvious thing to do, I thought, was email them myself and ask.

What are you trying to do? Take all the fun out of it?

[JaxBeachBoy]

So let's move on to debunking the mummy man...I have read this story before in a book of unexplained phenomenon...and seen a different picture of his body, but I had never seen the XRAY before.

http://www.anomalies-unlimited.com/Pedro.html

[Bren_Cameron]

Originally posted by Squink
Unless you're a part some vast worldwide conspiracy to convince us that cave-goblins don't exist...

Well, it's not like it's a conspiracy exactly, it's just that we like our privacy, and if stories like this get around every damn fool with a camera is going to be...

I mean, um, no, there's no conspiracy, and there's no such thing as cave goblins. I mean, who would believe such a ridiculous thing? Cave goblins indeed.