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  #51  
Old 12-23-2002, 01:15 AM
HPL HPL is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Epimetheus
Oh please, who buys a game for the plot. If you want a plot read a book or watch a freaking movie. Games are to PLAY and be challenging. To pass the TIME. You know, the opposite of what you are wanting.
Actually, there are games out there have very intricate and interesting plots.

Planescape Torment is one, Final Fantast Tactics is one. There are times I will buy a game for the plot, and often I am not disappointed.

And not everyone reads books, watches movies or plays games to pass the time, but rather for the experience they offer. Wether that be the experience of solving puzzles in a graphical environment or driving over a (Insert enemy group here) attack force.

Most of the time I will go without cheats, though I have reached points where I had to resort to them to continue, usually becuase of a section or boss that is too difficult to beat by other means. Or because I just frankely want to finish the game and move on to the next one.

So I'm more in the "okay with cheats" camp even though how much of them I use depends a lot on the game.
Of course, that only applies to Single player. Anyone who uses Cheats on mutiplayer should be shot.
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  #52  
Old 12-23-2002, 08:07 AM
Edward The Head Edward The Head is offline
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There are some of us that like to play games, are not really damn good, don't have a hell of a lot of time, and do buy a lot of games. Granted I haven't bought a game in a long time now because they take to damn long even with the cheats.

I'll tell you what I really hate though and that's damn near impossible jumps or timed crap that if you don't do perfectly you die. I give up on games if I spend three f'ing hours trying to make one jump. I bought Indiana Jones a year or so ago and got through it pretty easy til I needed to push a crate under a hole in the ceiling and jump up. Easy huh? I never got through that part. I even got a cheat book to make sure I was doing it right and I was and still it wouldn't let me though. I'm a huge Indy fan and just couldn't stand it after that. Even with the cheats I didn't finish it.

I say that cheats for a lot of people make the game more fun, I wouldn't play at all if I need to start the game with a pistol and shoot 50 guys in two seconds with it. Hell it still takes me hours to play a game with cheats on.
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  #53  
Old 12-23-2002, 10:41 AM
Who_me? Who_me? is offline
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I don't care if they offer cheats on every game that comes out, I won't use them. I have friends that buy the cheat manual at the time they buy the game. One of them came by one day and was watching me play Final Fantasy 7. Then looked puzzled and ask me where the book was. I told him that I didn't have one, and he had the nerve to look at me like I was crazy.

And yes, I finished it, without the book. If I'm paying $50.00 for a game, I want it to be a challenge. I want it to be tough. I want to have to work at it.
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  #54  
Old 12-23-2002, 01:24 PM
Shalmanese Shalmanese is online now
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One of the temptations of cheating is that you don't JUST use it for that one scene. Once you have discovered god mode, you go back to it again and again. I usually try to play through a game at least once all the way through without cheats and THEN whip out cheats to have some fun. IMHO, it completely ruins all the tension when you blithly walk right through a carefully scripted event without batting an eye.

One example that comes to mind would be the big 3 headed mostor thing in the pit in Half Life. That damn thing took me 3 hours to get past but if I had just turned on god and finished it in 5 mins, I would have lost a lot of valuable gameplay.
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  #55  
Old 12-23-2002, 03:06 PM
kanicbird kanicbird is offline
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Quote:
And yes, I finished it, without the book. If I'm paying $50.00 for a game, I want it to be a challenge. I want it to be tough. I want to have to work at it.
me too but if I get stuck I want a way around it so I can continue the game
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  #56  
Old 12-23-2002, 05:19 PM
DKW DKW is offline
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Whew, lotta issues here. All of which I've tackled to some extent ever since I got my first Game Genie.

Let's start with the obvious one...

Re. challenge
Okay, there's something you all have to understand...there's a difference between real challenge and fragged-up challenge.

Swing Away Golf has a plethora of events and contests, and it'll take you years before you're close to beating them all. That's real challenge.

The Gradius games kill you off once every few seconds, and several bosses are completely impossible. That's fragged-up challenge.

Klonoa 2: Lots of ingenious, layered puzzles, tricky bosses, and hidden surprises. Real challenge.

WWF/WWE (any recent game): Opponents do attack after attack after attack after attack on you, you can do almost nothing to respond, and certain matches are completely unwinnable. Fragged-up challenge.

Myst: Start with absolutely nothing, story revealed to you in bits and pieces, lots of exploring to do, and the final choice determines everything. Real challenge.

Bard's Tale: Never have any idea what to do, ever, completely blind half the time, and some of the tougher monsters can beat you with their pinkies. Fragged-up challenge.

It goes on and on. The point is, challenge should not equal torture. And I don't feel the slightest twinge of guilt in using my Gameshark 2 or whatever else is available to change or eliminate a torturous part of any game, which as far as I'm concerned doesn't belong there in the first place.

In my expereince, games which sacrifice anything and everything for challenge, challenge, challenge, challengechallengechallengeCHALLENGECHALLENGE are the worst pieces of dreck I've ever been subjected to. Challenge is never enough. There has to be an actual game there.

Re. "Too easy"; expect everything handed to you etc.
Look, guys...it's a game. Not law school. Not an emergency rescue. Not running a household. Not serving as mayor. A game. And as such, it should be fun. And if it isn't fun, I take it upon myself to make it fun. I see games as an escape from the endless worries of day-to-day life...if it can't even succeed at that, what's the point?

Re. Getting what you pay for
Yes. Hell yes. No free rides, dammit. I'm not shelling out $45 for torture. Yes, this actually happened to me once (Graidus 2), and I've never felt more ripped off in my life. I'm mystified as to how so many of you are willing to absolve game makers of all responsibility because "you don't have to buy". Let me remind you that most places have strict return policies, and some computer stores won't even give you store credit if you open the box. If there's something I can't return, I expect to get some value out of it...that's where the Gameshark comes in.

Of course, if you're a programmer who doesn't mind the thought of alienating legions of players and preventing a lot of customers and potential customers from ever buying your works again, be my guest...

Re. Replay value
Three words...or rather, one word and two acronyms. NFL Blitz, PSX.

Without cheat codes, this is a screwy, gimmicky, broken game that's fun for maybe three days. Tops.

With codes, it opens up a world of possibilities. No first down! No punting! Same side always has possession! Hey, let's set a real touchdowns-in-a-game record. Or if you want a challenge, how about turning on super CPU players? A world of options that's just not possible playing it "straight".

And if your game has to be ridiculous, painfully, gut-wrenchingly hard to have any replay value, then as far as I've concerned, you've plain messed up. Even worse is the game that's that hard but doesn't have replay value. (I remember Mega Man for NES. Painful. Torturous. Made me want to throw heavy objects through the TV. Finished in two days.) I mean, look at Klonoa 2. And Capcom vs. SNK 2. And the entire Bemani line. Those people know what they're doing; why can't you?

Re. manhood, honor, blood, guts, sweat, etc. etc.
Good effin' lord. The fact that some people in the video game community actually care about these stupid issues says a lot.

There used to be a huge flap over players who hung onto the bar in Dance Dance Revolution, usually for the really fast songs (Max 300 and Maxx Unlimited were the most common). Some players loathed this practice and called it "bar rape". That's right, rape. An incredibly loaded term for something many players did out of necessity (hey, you try either of those songs lately?). Well, guess what, we now have a consensus, which is "Shut up and let them play."

And that's what I'm saying to all of you. Look, if you want to turn every video game session into Army boot camp, fine, but don't ruin it for the rest of us, dammit. You think codes are the work of the devil? Fine. Don't use them. I'll continue to do what is necessary to avoid turning into a screaming mass of rage, thank you.

Re. having to put of with annoying braggarts who use codes
This isn't an argument against codes. This is an argument against loudmouth jerks (many of whom play completely honestly, I might add). I have no problem with this. If I ever post mindless drivel about how I'm 1337 and everyone else suxors and crap, regardles of any extenuating circumstances, feel free to run me outta town on a rail.

Now if you're upset because someone thinks he's all that after using codes...well, get a damn life. If you can't even tolerate the existence of unusual points of view, YOU'RE the one with the problem.

Re. being able to see the whole story
Hell yes. It's one of my primary objectives of owning a game, for crying out loud. When I put good money on a game, I want everything. Period.

I'm patient, however, and I want the complete experience, so I'm happy to unlock things one item at a time. Like for the Tekken games. I'm not going enter a "get everything" code...that takes the enjoyment out of getting it all. What I will do is enter a code or two which makes it a lot easier to get everything the "correct" way. Even then, it's not a cake walk (having infinite health in Tekken Force is worth jack squat if you run out of time), so I achieve an appropriate level of challenge. Hey, that's a good thing!

But I'm not going to condemn anyone for "getting everything in a day". If that's what they consider fun, more power to them. I'm not going to ruin it for anyone else.

Re. Unlimited save feature as a crutch
Tell you what. When game companies stop releasing games with certain areas, enemies, or stages that are COMPLETLEY IMPOSSIBLE and which SEND YOU BACK WAY TOO FAR when you get stomped, then I'll stop using save states for that purpose. Until then, lay the hell off. I'm trying to protect what remains of my sanity here.

Think I'm kidding, right? Why don't you play, in no particular order: the Graidus series, the Bust-a-Move/Puzzle Bobble series, World Heroes 2, Aero Fighters 2, anything named "Track and Field", Xybots, and Fightingmania: Fist of the North Star. I guarantee that before it's over, you'll be begging for at least something as good as save states.

And, in summary:
* More choices are better than fewer choices.
* If you don't want cheat codes, don't use them. No one's forcing you.
* I think a lot of game are too damn hard, and I'm not stanidng for it.
* I don't want anyone forcing their views onto the games I'm going to play.
* I won't force my views onto anyone else's games.
* Games should be fun.
* Different players find different things fun.
* Ridiculous strawman arguments aren't going to dissuade anyone.

I'll be happy to defend any and all of my points. In fact, considering how strongly I feel on this issue, I almost feel a duty to.
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  #57  
Old 12-23-2002, 10:50 PM
HPL HPL is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shalmanese


One example that comes to mind would be the big 3 headed mostor thing in the pit in Half Life. That damn thing took me 3 hours to get past but if I had just turned on god and finished it in 5 mins, I would have lost a lot of valuable gameplay.
Half life I usually through most of it playing normally, but by the time I get the bouncing levels on Xen, on go the cheat codes just becuase I want to get the end and it's hard enough without playing like this is a 1st person, heavy-armed verion of Super Mario Bros. with Aliens.
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  #58  
Old 12-23-2002, 11:10 PM
HPL HPL is offline
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And Certain platform action games I really have no probkem with using cheats. If I play contra(or any one of the 20,000 incarnations to date), I want to finish in about an hour or so, not a week. This is considering there are no save points, just continues and if I screw up, I go all the way back to the beginning of the damn game, not just the beginning of the level.
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  #59  
Old 12-23-2002, 11:17 PM
Badtz Maru Badtz Maru is offline
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Contra? Contra was not hard. I never owned the game (it was a rental) and I got to the point where I could finish the entire game without losing a single life, and I'm not terribly good at those kinds of games.
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  #60  
Old 12-24-2002, 08:09 PM
levdrakon levdrakon is offline
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No, I don't think every game should have a God Mode. I do think every game should have a walkthrough for when you're stuck, and they do. I don't mind a cheat here and there tho. A little extra armor, health or ammo here & there doesn't diminish the game play for me at all. W/out it, I wouldn't last long. I still get hours & hours of fun.

I read the reviews before trying a game. If the game is really hard and not for the casual gamer, someone will say so. If I'm not sure, I rent it first. I don't want to rent a game, use God Mode to play through it in a couple days and move on. I just want to rent it to see if it's worth $50 to me. If I'm going to pay $50, it better keep me engaged for months, and most good games do, at my playing level. I've had Resident Evil for months now, and I've got months & months of play yet to go. I finally made it through Mario Sunshine, with a lot of help from walkthroughs and it was still hard as heck in places. My cost per playing hour comes out to practically free, and I had a lot of fun. A lot of fustration at times too, but geez, put the game away for awhile.

As for unlimited in-game saves, there have been a few times when I saved at the wrong time and found myself with too little health, the wrong equipment, etc. At that point I've screwed myself & had to play the whole level through from the beginning, anyway. A well designed game will have saves where you really need them, or limit the number of saves to force you to think about what you're doing more carefully. What's wrong with that? It's a game! So what if it takes you 50 tries to get past a certain point? Think how satisfying it is when you finally do?

If a game really sucks because it's impossibly hard, well you're the one that shelled out $50 for it. Buyer beware.
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  #61  
Old 12-24-2002, 10:28 PM
Ill Logik Ill Logik is offline
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What Stinkpalm is saying makes perfect sense. It seems to me that a lot of you who are so against god modes probably don't want it because then you lose some kind of "ability" to do things others usually can't. Does beating a game without cheating really mean that much? I might be wrong, but I bet those who beat it with god mode don't feel much different. And to imply that "cheaters" just need to find a new means of entertainment is rediculous. It's a game. A GAME!! Let people get what they want out of it. If I want to blow shit up and never die, fine. If I want to waste hours and hours on the same thing, and that actually makes me feel good, fine. God mode or no god mode should not seriously affect your game playing experience, regardless of inherent human weakness when a "tool" is there to enhance their ease of use.
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  #62  
Old 12-24-2002, 11:26 PM
Urban Ranger Urban Ranger is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pochacco
But as for the latter, it gets more complicated. If it's too easy to lock in your progress gameplay can converge on the quicksave-and-creep cycle common in first-person-shooters. Because most of the players are quicksaving their way through the levels, the difficulty level is tuned to support it, meaning lots of death and lots of retries and (IMHO) lots of boredom.
Why would this be a matter of concern to you? It is his game, let he do whatever he wants. Why do programmers and designers have to be "smarter" than players and decide what he should do?

Quote:
Originally posted by Pochacco
Why does it lessen the play experience? The same reason that people gamble with real money. There's a big thrill that comes from knowing that if you screw up you'll lose something valuable. Choosing when and how the player gets to save is as much a design decision as boss design -- both are about shaping the experience.
Again, who cares? You don't live somebody's life, let he does whatever he wants.
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  #63  
Old 12-25-2002, 02:46 AM
Shalmanese Shalmanese is online now
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ill Logik
What Stinkpalm is saying makes perfect sense. It seems to me that a lot of you who are so against god modes probably don't want it because then you lose some kind of "ability" to do things others usually can't. Does beating a game without cheating really mean that much?
yes, when your actions no longer have any meanngful consequences, you find it a lot harder to be engaged by them. I find that when I have cheats on, I just rush through the game in a half-hearted stupor. Any carefully scripted event is lost to me.
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  #64  
Old 12-25-2002, 05:12 AM
GuanoLad GuanoLad is offline
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Then don't have cheats on. Why are people so concerned that their own gameplay will be compromised if other people get to use cheats? That makes no sense.

Here's my current situation:
I am playing the new Harry Potter game. I have about 0.1 power left. The only way for me to get power back is if I find a cauldron. I am in a section where there are no cauldrons, and have to get past these things that kill me if I come anywhere near them. I cannot use a past save, because there is only one save that is automatically saved over all the time.

I have two choices. Somehow get past these bad guys (and the next and the next and the next) with my 0.1 power left.

Or start all over again from the very very beginning.

I have no cheat mode (that I know of) to get me out of this - I am buggered. But this is an ideal situation where a cheat mode would really be useful.
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  #65  
Old 12-25-2002, 05:45 AM
HPL HPL is offline
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Originally posted by Badtz Maru
Contra? Contra was not hard. I never owned the game (it was a rental) and I got to the point where I could finish the entire game without losing a single life, and I'm not terribly good at those kinds of games.
I guess I just suck at platform action games. I seem to enjoy them a lot more when I can actually get through them. I don't have the time to commit to actually memorizing where every bad guy is going to appear and such.
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  #66  
Old 12-25-2002, 06:11 AM
HPL HPL is offline
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That being said, I guess it just depends on the type of game I am playing. I will not use Cheats on RPG's or most shooters unless they are horribly unbalanced. Same goes for Adventure games, Stragety, etc.

Action games (little spaceship fights twenty thousand other spaceships) I usally play for distraction, and basically just want to get through the damn thing. I liked Ninja Gaidian(and the sequel), but I also liked the fact that I could avoid being knocked into a ****ing pit everytime some little spawned creature flew out of the damn woodwork. being knocked into a stupid crevaise every 30 seconds is not my idea of a good time, being able to actually see some kind of progress is. Particulary when I want to move on to some of the other games on my list.
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  #67  
Old 12-25-2002, 06:19 AM
HPL HPL is offline
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Originally posted by levdrakon
So what if it takes you 50 tries to get past a certain point? Think how satisfying it is when you finally do?

That's assuming I make it that far. It gets really damn annoying when you make it so far and then get knocked back 5 hours. That's the kind of thing that would make a lot of people just stop playing entirely rather then spend another 5 hours just to reach the same point again.

Quote:
Originally posted by levdrakon
If a game really sucks because it's impossibly hard, well you're the one that shelled out $50 for it. Buyer beware. [/B]
Ever played Black Dahlia? Good production values, interesting storyline, incredibly hard, and times, nosensical, puzzles. I liked the story, but you need a walkthrough to beat it because most of the puzzles, if not all of them, take far too much time and effort to solve (and I'm not the only one who thinks this).
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  #68  
Old 12-25-2002, 03:51 PM
DKW DKW is offline
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Again.

If you want to take on a level/boss/stage fifty times and feel an incredible sense of satisfaction when you finally beat it clean, fine. More power to you. But don't begrudge me a code that lets me past it on the first try, especially since I will reach a state of pure, unbridled rage long before even the tenth crack, much less the fiftieth.

If you want to deal with a bazillion enemies killing you every two seconds and find this fun for some reason...well, no accounting for taste. But I don't want to hear a sound when I use an invincibility code to bypass that insanity, which invariably drives me to insanity.

If you take great pride in being able to blast through entire armies of deadly enemies, where THE TINIEST MISTAKE spells INSTANT DOOM...fine. You da man. I'm not at that level, and I don't feel like spending the many years it'd take to get at that level, to say nothing of the irreparable damage my already-battered emotional state is going to take during that time.

If you relish the kind of challenge where you have to prevent an unstoppable evil force for a certain amount of time, and every second is absolute gut-wrenching horror, and it'll probably come down to the last second...well, it's your life (and sanity). Please understand that if I'm ever in this situation, the first thing I'm doing is punching in the code that makes it ridiciulously easy, trivial, and, yes, boring, which I find vastly preferable to suffering a heart attack every two minutes for whatever outrageously long period of time I have to hold out.

If you love racing games where your care has zippo traction and horsepower, you get burned constantly on nearly every course, and each and every race, test, and challenge is your worst nightmare come to life, well, hey, one man's meat. I view such experiences as aberrations on the videogaming landscape, and will take whatever measures are necessary to correct them. Win every race four seconds after it begins? Take all the challenge out? Hey, this is vastly preferable to destroying the game disk and possibly several pieces of furniture in the vicinity.

And if you don't mind getting absolutely ripped off by a video game manufacturer that really should know better...well, it's between you and your conscience. I'm far less forgiving, and nothing you say is ever going to change this.

I've asked it before, I'll ask it here. Why do you want to ruin it for the rest of us? What have we ever done to you?
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  #69  
Old 12-25-2002, 04:22 PM
kanicbird kanicbird is offline
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Also I never liked the idea of bosses in the games. I would much rather to have many little guys to fight at the end then this almost god-mode guy at the end.
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  #70  
Old 12-26-2002, 10:16 AM
ElwoodCuse ElwoodCuse is offline
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Who buys games for plots? Lots of people. Including me. When I got Medal Gear Solid 2, the very first time I played it I used a spoiler-free walkthrough and played it on very easy. Why? Because I really really wanted to know what the story of the game was. After beating it that first time, I was then free to go back and explore the other difficulties and try and get all the dog tags (a great way to increase replay value).

I still don't understand why someone would complain about cheats being in the game. Just don't use them!

Look at Grand Theft Auto. Would this game be half as much fun if there were absolutely no cheats? How would you go around on massive killing sprees if you couldn't do codes for armor, health, and weapons? When you finish the actual game (using cheats or not), this is pretty much what's left. Having to go and buy all the weapons you want wastes time.

Great OP. This thread should be required reading for about 90% of the people that post on GameFAQs' message board.
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  #71  
Old 12-26-2002, 03:15 PM
7string 7string is offline
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Maybe it's that the people who hate cheats don't have lives, jobs, girlfriends, etc.... The only thing these people have to give them a sense of accomplishment in life is playing a game that doesn't have cheats.

If the game had cheats they (being total and complete losers in real life) don't have the will power to resist using them. That would make their life pointless. Then they'd have to join the ranks of the real. They couldn't brag to their other loser friends that they beat game/boss "X" without cheats 'cause none of their freinds would beleive them.

I have a job. I have a wife. I have hobbies. I am a casual game player. I bet that I spend more than average on games. I want cheats. Most of the people, whom exist in the real world, whom I know, feel the same way.

Put cheats in every game. If you don't want to, don't use them. If you tell me I CAN'T use them I will stop buying your games (as will a large population of people with jobs/money). The industry will take a big hit.
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  #72  
Old 12-27-2002, 02:29 AM
MaxTheVool MaxTheVool is online now
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(a) a very large number of people posting in this thread are being pretty jerkish ("you can't beat the game without cheats? You're a loser! We don't want your money polluting our industry!" "You have time to play without cheats? Get a job and a girlfriend, you loser!")

(b) after sifting out all the noise, two conclusions emerge:
(i) some intelligent, rational, articulate people don't like their games to have cheats, god-modes, and unlimited in-game saves
(ii) others do

(c) Thus, it's not surprising that the default solution most game companies implement these days is that there are cheats and god modes, but they are hidden, so that they're not constantly staring you in the face, but they're there if you want them

(d) That said, if I were developing a game (and I do, in fact, write games for a living) which had a storyline with various puzzles or levels that had to be completed to move forward, I would implement some system or other to keep players from getting completely stuck and frustrated and giving up. For instance, hints can start popping up after a certain number of repetitions. Or the difficultly level of the game can automatically scale itself. Also, it's very important that save points be placed thoughtfully and logically.

(e) Maybe when you install a game, it should be installable in two totally different modes, one of which had cheats turned on and menu-accessible, and on with no cheats at all. So if you're hardcore, you go for the second option, and they're not even there. If you're softcore, you go for the first option, and hey, presto, cheat away. Or perhaps, combining (d) and (e), cheats would show up in the menus only after you've been stuck at a particular point for a sufficient length of time (or number of tries)
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  #73  
Old 12-27-2002, 10:52 AM
SC_Wolf SC_Wolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by MaxTheVool
(Or perhaps, combining (d) and (e), cheats would show up in the menus only after you've been stuck at a particular point for a sufficient length of time (or number of tries)
To me that would smack of the game publishers going "Dear GOD you suck at this game, I guess we have to unlock god mode for you."
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  #74  
Old 12-27-2002, 12:30 PM
BlackKnight BlackKnight is offline
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This thread started out not about cheats in general, but about a particular kind of cheat, "god mode". I don't think words like
Quote:
Maybe it's that the people who hate cheats don't have lives, jobs, girlfriends, etc....
apply to anyone who has posted in this thread. Unless I missed it, nobody complained about all cheats.
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  #75  
Old 12-27-2002, 01:01 PM
astro astro is offline
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Re: All video games should have an easily accessible "god" mode in them.

Quote:
Originally posted by Stinkpalm
I am stuck in Splinter Cell right now and am just too busy to keep trying over and over in this one level. I am a casual gamer and I enjoy the story and am too old to brag to my friends about beating a video game. I want to know the rest of the story but will not because I can't get past a guard without setting an alarm off. IMHO my $50 is not being recouped because of this. The game is great, no doubt about it, but a comsumer should not be denied every benifit of a product that they pay for.
Not addressing the overall OP but it may help your current dilemma.

Splinter Cell
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Well, for my fellow splinter cell gamers, the reason the alarms are goin off is because the bodies are not being hidden in that right place, COME ON, IF THE GAME IS REALISTIC, THINK REALISTIC!! You cant just hide the bodies in a corner, it's gotta be in the dark, no light at all! I came across this problem to find out it was just not the right place to hide the body!!
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  #76  
Old 12-27-2002, 05:09 PM
MaxTheVool MaxTheVool is online now
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Quote:
Originally posted by SC_Wolf
To me that would smack of the game publishers going "Dear GOD you suck at this game, I guess we have to unlock god mode for you."
Pretty much, yup. Some people (such as me) are so stubborn that I would rather not finish a game than get the slightest bit of help. But plenty of people posting on this thread (based on what they've posted) would prefer to be helped along instead of being stuck somewhere forever. It's not for me, but it's a perfectly reasonable opinion.
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  #77  
Old 12-27-2002, 07:08 PM
Cubsfan Cubsfan is online now
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Originally posted by Badtz Maru
Contra? Contra was not hard. I never owned the game (it was a rental) and I got to the point where I could finish the entire game without losing a single life, and I'm not terribly good at those kinds of games.
I gotta throw up the bullshit flag on this one. I would have to see it to believe it. This is along the lines of someone saying they kicked a 70 yard field goal. I am sure it may be possible on the right day with the right conditions, but 99.9999% of the time it's not possible.
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  #78  
Old 12-28-2002, 01:35 AM
HPL HPL is offline
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I remember there was a game, "The Journeyman Project 2" where you picked up a companion early in the game who would give you hints at various times if you clicked on a certain Icon. However, you lost points everytime you used the "hint button".

Another, one of the Tex Murphy games, had two modes. Easy and Hard. Easy Mode allowed you to get hints anytime you wanted and even solve puzzles. However, there was a penalty for it, which I can't remember. The Hard mode did not allow any of this. You could switch from hard to easy, but not the other way around, IIRC.
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  #79  
Old 12-28-2002, 03:10 PM
Badtz Maru Badtz Maru is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Stinkpalm
I gotta throw up the bullshit flag on this one. I would have to see it to believe it. This is along the lines of someone saying they kicked a 70 yard field goal. I am sure it may be possible on the right day with the right conditions, but 99.9999% of the time it's not possible.
We are talking about the first Contra for the NES, right? Side-scrolling levels alternating with pseudo-3D levels? No bullshit in that case. It was a very easy game to finish without getting hit, as all the patterns were predetermined and your character was so mobile it was easy to avoid getting hit.

It's been a while but I bet with an hour's practice I could play Contra indefinitely on one life.
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  #80  
Old 12-28-2002, 03:21 PM
Cubsfan Cubsfan is online now
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Originally posted by Badtz Maru
We are talking about the first Contra for the NES, right? Side-scrolling levels alternating with pseudo-3D levels? No bullshit in that case. It was a very easy game to finish without getting hit, as all the patterns were predetermined and your character was so mobile it was easy to avoid getting hit.

It's been a while but I bet with an hour's practice I could play Contra indefinitely on one life.
Damn! I wish we lived near each other so we could make a bet and I could take your money because I don't think you can do it. I owned that game and was very good at it. It was one of my favorite games. I was able to beat the game fair and square in the alotted number of continues, but there is no way I could beat it on one life.

Someone back me up here, there ain't no way BM is beating Contra in one life.
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  #81  
Old 12-29-2002, 01:08 AM
Skeezix Skeezix is offline
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I'm thinking you and your money will soon be parted, Stinkpalm. Some folks is just plain good at some things.

There's a guy (or maybe several) out there that can crash an old PacMan arcade game, by reaching level 256 (or 257, I'd think) and forcing the machine to try and work outside of what it understands.

Watch a "trick" pool/billards player sometime. They pull off stunts you just know are physically impossible, yet they'll repeat it in front of you several times, to prove there's no actual trickery involved. They really can make a cueball hop over two other balls to sink the third one into a pocket. Me, I can't sink more than three in a row on a good night.

FTR, I also once made it all the way through the old NES Contra without losing a life, in the days before I knew what U,U,D,D,L,L,R,R,A,B,B,A meant.

Or whatever it was. I think I've got the A+B buttons wrong.

Did the same with Golden Axe 2, too, for the Sega Genesis, repeatedly. Comes from having a fair bit of free time, and no cash to spring for rentals or new games.

OTOH, I could never get all the way through Warcraft 2 without cheating my ass off.
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  #82  
Old 12-29-2002, 02:31 AM
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Originally posted by Skeezix
FTR, I also once made it all the way through the old NES Contra without losing a life, in the days before I knew what U,U,D,D,L,L,R,R,A,B,B,A meant.
Are we talking about one GAME, meaning 3 lives + earned extra lives or are we talking about one LIFE meaning you never got hit by a bullet or fell off a ledge or eaten by an alien? The former I can believe, but the later is something I would have to see to believe because the snow level alone will eat your anus for breakfast.

I wish you guys lived mear me so we could test this out.
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  #83  
Old 12-29-2002, 02:50 PM
LoN LoN is offline
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I've got a GBA and a cheat device. When there's a boss that I get stuck on, and I've tried my damndest for five or six times, I turn on a cheat code. Infinate attacks, usually, or maybe invicibility. I beat it, and turn off the cheats. I've done this for the latest Metroid game and Castlevania: Circle of the Moon. I don't see it as taking the challenge out of the game. I still try to play the game honestly. When I can't, then I cheat.

I agree that some games are played for the story. For me, that tends to be RPGs. I'm a bit iffy about cheats on them-- part of the experiance is leveling up and finding stuff, and putting in a cheat mode takes some of the fun out of it. However, its about options. Give people a God mode option. They'll play it, get tired of it, and want the challenge.

Quicksaves are okay. Sure, they can be unbalancing, but there's times when you'll quicksave and be stuck in an impossible situation... so you have to go back to the normal save points. Fair enough.

So... yea.. choices=good.
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  #84  
Old 12-29-2002, 05:22 PM
Gozu Tashoya Gozu Tashoya is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Skeezix
FTR, I also once made it all the way through the old NES Contra without losing a life, in the days before I knew what U,U,D,D,L,L,R,R,A,B,B,A meant.
B,A,B,A - IIRC.

And I believe BM, as I had a friend who would have 27-28 lives left at the end of the game after using the 30-life code. He'd probably have done better if he wasn't always eating chips or what have you while playing.

And upon further reflection, I have no qualms about there being a god mode in every game, but it had better be damn hard to find (without going to GameFAQs or google or something).

Because I'd much rather pass a game without cheating, but I don't resist temptation very well, so a god mode toggle in, say, the options menu would probably get turned on quite often. However, I'm also quite lazy, so if I have to go look up the god mode, I probably wouldn't. (Hell, I'm playing through Vice City without even looking up the locations of hidden packages.)
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  #85  
Old 12-29-2002, 05:55 PM
SC_Wolf SC_Wolf is offline
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So because of your own personal lack of willpower, the rest of us should suffer?
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  #86  
Old 12-29-2002, 09:41 PM
Gozu Tashoya Gozu Tashoya is offline
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Yup.

Seriously, though, as long as it's a code and not an options toggle (sounds like this is what the OP wants, if I'm wrong, never mind), it sounds reasonable to me. I mean you should have to do some work, right?
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  #87  
Old 12-30-2002, 02:06 AM
Skeezix Skeezix is offline
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Stinkpalm:
Quote:
Originally posted by Skeezix:
...without losing a life...
Really. It's possible. Tain't easy, but it can be done.

As for testing it out, I haven't played the game in something like 8 or 9 years, at least. I'm willing to put money on my not repeating the trick on the first try.

As far as in game save states, the original Aliens vs Predator, after a patch was released, at least, allowed you a certain number of saves per level. These were not overwriteable*, so you had to ration yourself. And the higher level of difficulty you played, the fewer saves there were, IIRC. Also, finishing the "basic levels" at the highest difficulty level was the only way to unlock all of the "bonus levels" for that character. Don't know if the second game follows this format, and until we can afford a better 3D card (or an entire computer, more likely) I don't care all that much one way or the other.

Some folks were unhappy, but it was a nifty compromise, I thought.

*At least, not from within the game. Never tried mucking about with deleting files manually, by way of a file manager.
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  #88  
Old 12-30-2002, 02:41 AM
HPL HPL is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Skeezix
Stinkpalm:

Don't know if the second game follows this format, and until we can afford a better 3D card (or an entire computer, more likely) I don't care all that much one way or the other.

The 2nd one allows saves and quicksaves pretty much anywhere you want, and I don't think there are any bonus levels, as the plot is pretty well tied together by the levels there(and you have to play all the levels for each character/race to see the entire plot).
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  #89  
Old 12-30-2002, 10:18 AM
Cubsfan Cubsfan is online now
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Quote:
Originally posted by Skeezix
Stinkpalm
Really. It's possible. Tain't easy, but it can be done.
Hey guys, I'm not calling you liars, I am saying that maybe you remember being better at that game than you actually were. That's what happens with old age, your memory goes POOPOO!
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  #90  
Old 12-30-2002, 11:02 AM
ShardPhoenix ShardPhoenix is offline
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I think games should have a cheat mode somewhere, but it shouldn't be easily accessible. That makes it too tempting to use it as soon as things get tough, and results in a lot of people's gameplay experience being ruined.

And sure, nobody's being *forced* to use an easily accessible god-mode, but nobody is being *forced* to use overpowered weapons that are unbalanced and ruin the game. That doesn't mean that they're a good thing or should be included.
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  #91  
Old 12-30-2002, 11:32 AM
Purd Werfect Purd Werfect is online now
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I'm surprised that one's opinion regarding game cheats apparently reflects so strongly one's character and integrity. It's just not that big of a deal.

I rarely use cheats, especially the first time through a game, but I don't think using or not using cheats suggests a person's important qualities or lack thereof.

As for limited saves, they can add to a game's difficulty, but it's boring as hell to have to go through some bits over and over because you have trouble getting past one part.

And I'm all for cheats to get past jumping puzzles. I hate jumping puzzles.
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  #92  
Old 12-30-2002, 10:42 PM
HPL HPL is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Purd Werfect
I'm surprised that one's opinion regarding game cheats apparently reflects so strongly one's character and integrity. It's just not that big of a deal.

I rarely use cheats, especially the first time through a game, but I don't think using or not using cheats suggests a person's important qualities or lack thereof.

As for limited saves, they can add to a game's difficulty, but it's boring as hell to have to go through some bits over and over because you have trouble getting past one part.

And I'm all for cheats to get past jumping puzzles. I hate jumping puzzles.
I can think of something useful. Right now I'm playing Jedi Knight 2, which has one really annoying flaw. A lot of it takes place in dimly lit areas and the only source of illumination are nightvision goggles. Unfortunatly, those require batteries, and those batteries run out really quickly. Now imagine trying to jump over pits in low/no light areas with no source of illumination.

I would not begrudge anyone who wanted to cheat for more batteries.
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  #93  
Old 12-31-2002, 02:41 AM
Skeezix Skeezix is offline
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Re: Jedi Knight 2
(And I'm jealous. Can't play this one without a hardware upgrade, either. Poop.)

It does seem like some games are designed with the player cheating in mind. If the difficulty ramps up way too quickly, you damn near need to cheat to get through the thing.

I'm all for a challenge, but give me half a chance to make it "honestly."

Indeed, it also seems like some folks take the whole thing way too seriously. But that's true of, well, pretty much everything. We've all got our passionate topics.
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  #94  
Old 12-31-2002, 02:47 AM
Badtz Maru Badtz Maru is offline
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I think it's funny that you are so resistant to the idea that someone could beat Contra on one life. And yes, that is one life, not one continue, etc. If I recall correctly you would end the game with 6 or 7 lives, but I haven't played the game since I was about 15.

I think you should dig the game up and give it another try. It really wasn't that hard, I beat the game without cheat codes within a couple of hours of renting it, and it wasn't long after that I had memorized the levels and could get through them all without getting hit. Seriously, if you can't avoid getting hit with little round bullets that go about 30 MPH with the ability to jump 20 feet in the air or drop prone instantly, you aren't that good at video games. Lord knows I'm not (currently struggling with Hitman 2).
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  #95  
Old 01-02-2003, 11:33 PM
Sterra Sterra is offline
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I came across this today and it reminded me of this thread.

Not only does it beat Contra without losing lives it does it very quickly.
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