muslims and pork

[raisinbread]

I've heard stories, possibly apocryphal, about Israelis putting pork fat on their bullets so their muslim enemies will go straight to hell, do not pass go, etc. I dated a muslim chick, an Italian American princess who switched for her ex-husband but drank like a fish but never touched pork anymore, and she went off on helal and why pork is bad in Islam. Plus from prior threads from searching I've noticed most muslims consider pork to be bad. On par with murder, rape, etc.
Is that the case? A muslim can't resist the delicious smell of a hickory smoked kielbasa and decides to have a bite, is he condemned for all eternity with the 9-11 hijackers, murderers and Hitler?
Or is eating pork akin to masturbation where it's frowned upon but at worst you'll spend a few minutes in Purgatory?

[phlebert]

I have heard this same basic idea before, except it was General Pershing in the version I heard.

Forced to dig their own graves, the terrorists were all tied to posts, execution style. The US soldiers then brought in pigs and slaughtered them, rubbing their bullets in the blood and fat. Thus, the terrorists were terrorized; they saw that they would be contaminated with hogs' blood. This would mean that they could not enter Heaven, even if they died as terrorist martyrs.

All but one was shot, their bodies dumped into the grave, and the hog guts dumped atop the bodies. The lone survivor was allowed to escape back to the terrorist camp and tell his brethren what happened to the others. This brought a stop to terrorism in the Philippines for the next 50 years.

Checking this out on my favorite urban legend debunking site www.snopes.com (where I lifted the quote from), I found that the idea of discouraging Muslim extremists in this way has in fact had currency in the Israeli press as early as the 30's and perhaps earlier.

What it boils down to is this:
1. this is an old idea
2. assuming all terrorists are muslims and all muslims loathe pigs is an oversimplification of a widely varied religion. it is like saying americans will burn in hell if they eat meat on friday. not all americans are christians, much less catholics, much less strict catholics.
3. it's so crazy it just might work (note: this does not necessarily make it right.)

[Master Wang-Ka]

Um... ain't there a difference between "succumbing to temptation and eating a slice of bacon" and "being shot several times, very much against your will, with pork-greased bullets, and then buried with a pig carcass?"

I'd like to think that any sane deity could tell the difference. At least, I wouldn't much wanna worship one that couldn't.

[x-ray vision]

originally posted by raisinbread


A muslim can't resist the delicious smell of a hickory smoked kielbasa and decides to have a bite, is he condemned for all eternity with the 9-11 hijackers, murderers and Hitler?
Or is eating pork akin to masturbation where it's frowned upon but at worst you'll spend a few minutes in Purgatory?

When talking about masturbation are you talking about relating eating pork to masturbation in the Bible? I don't think there is a restriction to masturbation in the Koran. . AFAIK, the Koran says that all Muslims will go to hell to pay for sins (no details on how long or which are worse) made while alive and Christians believe (most anyway) that you will be forgiven for your sins (except you can't have blasphemed against the Holy Ghost - unforgivable!) if you accept Jesus as your Lord and saviour.

[Truth Seeker]

I think the original germ of this story goes back to the Sepoy Mutiny in 1857 in India. Native soldiers revolted because of a variety of grievances. However, the trigger was that the new Enfield rifles issued to the native levies uses paper cartridges (which had to be bitten open) that had been greased with animal fat, apparently a combination of pork and beef fat, thereby managing, at one go, to deeply offend the entire population of India.

[Agback]

G'day

I shared my house for some time with a Muslim couple from Indonesia. Early in their stay, I noticed that they were rather keen on frankfurter sausages.

So I asked "Don't those frankfurts have pork in them?"

The husband said "Yes. What's the problem?"

I said "I thought Muslims were forbidden to eat pork."

"By whom?" he said. (Actually, he said "By who?", but I'm taking artistic licence.)

"I thought it was in the Q'uran" I said.

He checked. They stopped eating frankfurters. I always feel bad about that-- "Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise."

Regards,


Agback

[bibliophage]

Originally posted by Truth Seeker
I think the original germ of this story goes back to the Sepoy Mutiny in 1857 in India. Native soldiers revolted because of a variety of grievances. However, the trigger was that the new Enfield rifles issued to the native levies uses paper cartridges (which had to be bitten open) that had been greased with animal fat, apparently a combination of pork and beef fat, thereby managing, at one go, to deeply offend the entire population of India.

From your link

The immediate reason was the belief amongst many of the Indian soldiers in India that they were being polluted deliberately by the British with [ammunition] cartridges [that] had either beef or pork fat.

The operative word here is belief. The British always maintained that the fat was from vegetable sources.

[bibliophage]

Hmm. I'm finding conflicting information on whether animal fat was actually used. Rather than hijack this thread further, I have started a new thread on the subject: Sepoy Mutiny question: Were the cartridges really greased with animal fat?

[raygirvan]

Agback
Muslim couple ... keen on frankfurter sausages.

Such restrictions may be less strong than we think. Reminds me of a similar situation, the views of Judaism on pork: as the author of this page noticed on a Holy Land trip, it's widely eaten in Israel as 'white beef'.

[martin_ibn_martin]

Pork is forbidden because it is considered unclean. It is permissible to eat pork, or anything else forbidden in the case of hunger or ignorance. Being shot, (against ones will, I hope) with porkfat greased cartriges would have no effect on the afterlife. Neither would pig entrails being dumped on your body in the grave. This is not to say that muslims wouldn't be horrified and try to avoid such a situation.

Alcohol wasn't completely forbidden during the early days of Muhammad's ministry. It is forbidden because of the effects it has in fogging the mind and loosening inhibitions, perhaps leading one to do things that are worse or harmful.

[istara]

martin - are pig products also banned? eg pigskin leather?

[martin_ibn_martin]

Originally posted by istara
martin - are pig products also banned? eg pigskin leather?

I recall that the Hadith on the subject says not to eat or touch any part of the pig.

Pretty sure, anyway.

I do know a lot of turkish muslims who run pizza joints and serve pork. I think there was a fatwa permitting muslims in non-muslim countries to cook and serve pork to non-muslims. Not all follow that, though.

Martin

[raisinbread]

So much for Muslim football players!!!!!!!

[Daniel]

Originally posted by phlebert
this way has in fact had currency in the Israeli press as early as the 30's and perhaps earlier.

huh? What do you mean? Israel was founded in 1948.

[Mangetout]

Originally posted by raygirvan
Agback
Muslim couple ... keen on frankfurter sausages.

Such restrictions may be less strong than we think. Reminds me of a similar situation, the views of Judaism on pork: as the author of this page noticed on a Holy Land trip, it's widely eaten in Israel as 'white beef'.

From the linked site:

We learned that there is very little beef in Israel but plenty of pork. They call it "white beef". A rabbi said that there are no pigs on the land. This is true because they are raised on platforms in Israel.

This sounds more like a joke to me, particularly the last two sentences... can anyone confirm this?

[raygirvan]

Mangetout

A couple of further anecdotal references: here and here.

[raygirvan]

A Google search on [pork Israel "white meat"] finds much more - such as this Middle East Times article - confirming that pork is widely available, but a highly contentious issue between secular and Orthodox factions.