Q for liberal Christians: What do You Believe?

In My Humble Opinion
1

Liberal meaning as opposed to Fundamentalists.

Just wanted to get a sense of what people actually believe, without debating their validity, so I put it here rather than GD. Anyway, here goes:

Was JC the Son of God? What does this mean? Was Mary physically a virgin at the time of his conception?

Will there be a Second Coming? When?

Do you believe that any of the miracles that are recorded in the Bible actually happened (as miracles)? Has God ever made any other miracles? Does he still make them today?

Does God manipulate the course of events in the world? Does prayer have an impact on this?

Is there a Heaven and Hell? Who gets in? Does it make a difference if someone is a Christian? Does God care if someone is a Christian or not (all else being equal)? What do you think of missionaries spreading the faith?

I may think of other questions, but this should suffice for now.

2

I’m not a fundie, but I’m not exactly liberal, either. I’m Catholic. That means I’m not a biblical literalist, but I have rather orthodox beliefs, so take this as you will.

Was JC the Son of God? What does this mean? Was Mary physically a virgin at the time of his conception?

Yes

Will there be a Second Coming? When?

Yes - when God wills it.

Do you believe that any of the miracles that are recorded in the Bible actually happened (as miracles)? Has God ever made any other miracles? Does he still make them today?

Yes, I believe in miracles. If you believe in an omnipotent God, why wouldn’t you believe in miracles?

Does God manipulate the course of events in the world? Does prayer have an impact on this?

Yes. See above on miracles about whether God has a Presence that is felt in this world. And I believe in prayer.

Is there a Heaven and Hell? Who gets in? Does it make a difference if someone is a Christian? Does God care if someone is a Christian or not (all else being equal)? What do you think of missionaries spreading the faith?

Yes to heaven and hell. God is a God of justice and mercy. I leave judging who goes where up to Him.

StG

3

Was JC the Son of God? What does this mean? Was Mary physically a virgin at the time of his conception?

Cranky: This is the hardest part of the Christian faith for me. I am just not sure. I tend to believe that JC was actually just a mortal man, but a man who was charismatic, wise and prophetic, and who history has elevated to this status of “son of god.” As for the Virgin Mary, no. Not a virgin.

Will there be a Second Coming? When?

Cranky: No.

Do you believe that any of the miracles that are recorded in the Bible actually happened (as miracles)? Has God ever made any other miracles? Does he still make them today?

Cranky: Maybe, but again I think they were born more as legends to inspire people’s faith. Can God do miracles? I think so. Does he do many? No, I think he’s a lot more hands-off.

Does God manipulate the course of events in the world? Does prayer have an impact on this?

Cranky: Trying to answer these questions is making me aware of how unformed my beliefs really are. I don’t think God manipulates events. I think that he might be able to influence people, to touch their humanity and make them emotionally stronger and wiser, and more aware or the right things to do. I pray accordingly: for people to have strength, for them to have wisdom and courage to do the right thing, etc. I don’t know how prayer works–does it reach God and God does the work? Or does it reach the person and touch them somehow and make them reach out to God (or their version of God)? I don’t know.

Is there a Heaven and Hell? Who gets in? Does it make a difference if someone is a Christian? Does God care if someone is a Christian or not (all else being equal)? What do you think of missionaries spreading the faith?

I believe that there is a Heaven. I am not sure about hell. I think there is probably not a hell, and that everyone gets into heaven, but that not everyone has peace in heaven. That is, if you were a horrible person, you will grieve and feel shame and remorse for what you did because in heaven you have more perfect knowledge of how awful you were. The better you are on earth, the more perfect will be your experience in heaven. I believe EMPHATICALLY that God doesn’t care what religion you practiced. It makes me FURIOUS when Christians assert that you can ONLY be saved if you “accept Jesus.” So some asswipe who “accepted Jesus” gets in while some peaceful loving kind person who happened to worship Buddha doesn’t? What kind of heavenly father would set that cruel system up? Not one I’d want to believe in.

I don’t support missionaries who try to convert people from a lifestyle and belief system that is working for them. If they want to help people have a greater faith and find more peace that way–and, while they are at it, provide other assistance to the suffering–than good. But if they are trying to destroy on belief system to put Christianity in its place, I think that’s arrogant.

So that’s my convoluted attempt to match Christianity to my beliefs. It’s a patchwork, and doesn’t make loads of sense I know.

4

**Was JC the Son of God? What does this mean? Was Mary physically a virgin at the time of his conception? ** I think JC was a real guy who was, as Cranky put it, very charismatic. As for Mary, she wasn’t a virgin.

**Will there be a Second Coming? When? ** No, but apparently there is big money to be made in it’s so-called literature and bumper stickers.

**Do you believe that any of the miracles that are recorded in the Bible actually happened (as miracles)? ** Maybe a few of them, but not all of them. Mass hallucination and myth.

**Has God ever made any other miracles? ** Sure, in extreme cases. She/He cannot be everywhere at once.

** Does he still make them today? ** It is on a case by case basis for the truly deserving. ( Not neccessiarly devoted.)

**Does God manipulate the course of events in the world? ** No. And , contrary to popular belief, s/he does not care about free throw shots either.

** Does prayer have an impact on this?** If prayer makes the person feel good and get through a crisis, then so be it, but the crisis is going to continue until people get a grip and their bearings.

**Is there a Heaven and Hell? ** Heaven, yes. Hell, no…

This is where reincarnation come into play for me. Instead of hell, you get a do-over until you get it right.

** Who gets in? Does it make a difference if someone is a Christian? Does God care if someone is a Christian or not (all else being equal)? ** Everyone who is true to themselves and is decent to others gets in. Carsalesmen and telemarketers get the do-over slot. Oh, and in my book, fundies and their ilk, get a do-over too. It would only be Kharmic Justice.
What do you think of missionaries spreading the faith? About as much as I think of the Mormons baptizing the dead of other faiths.

5

JC is the son of God. I could not possibly explain what that means, since I’m not really sure myself. I do believe that Jesus was the incarnation of God as human.

Does Mary’s virginity matter? I don’t see why a god that created the universe would have any problems creating a sperm cell. That said, does Mary’s “condition” at the time of conception influence any aspect of my life. No.

2nd coming: Not sure.

Yes, I believe that the miracles occurred. However, I believe he acted through natural causes. For example, when the Israelites crossed the Jordan, the Bible actually states that an upstream landslide slowed the flow. The “Red” (should be Reed) Sea crossing is another example with a natural explanation. The miracle is in the timing and the circumstances.

Does God change events? I’m not sure humanity is wise enough to really understand this. Clearly we all have at least a semblance of free will. If our will is truly free, then we can not be punished for every wrong action and rewarded for every good action, and random (good or bad) events must occur. Can God heal? Yes. Does he? I should say yes, but I am skeptical.

I will let God decide who goes to Heaven or Hell. My suspecion is that Heaven and Hell are the same “place”; it is you that determines which you perceive. See “Ground Hog Day”.

6

I believe for every drop of rain that falls, a flower grows…

7

My opinions:

Was JC the Son of God?

Yes, and He still is.

What does this mean?

That He is morally perfect.

Was Mary physically a virgin at the time of his conception?

Probably.

Will there be a Second Coming?

Yes, there was.

When?

He returned on the Day of Pentacost.

Do you believe that any of the miracles that are recorded in the Bible actually happened (as miracles)?

Yes.

Has God ever made any other miracles?

Yes.

Does he still make them today?

Yes.

Does God manipulate the course of events in the world?

As an intercessor, yes.

Does prayer have an impact on this?

It can.

Is there a Heaven and Hell?

Yes.

Who gets in?

Heaven: those who value goodness above any other aesthetic.
Hell: those who value something else above goodness.

Does it make a difference if someone is a Christian?

If you mean linguistically, no. But someone who loves (facilitates goodness) is like Christ by definition.

Does God care if someone is a Christian or not (all else being equal)?

Not in the sense of a label, no. “Many will call me Lord… but I will say I never knew you…”, etc.

What do you think of missionaries spreading the faith?

Well, they can spread the Gospel, and more power to them for that, so long as they are peaceful and honest. But faith is a gift from God to an open heart.

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Was JC the Son of God? What does this mean? Was Mary physically a virgin at the time of his conception?

  • I believe so. What it means is that God came to earth in the form of a human being, lived a human life and died a human death.

Was Mary a virgin?

  • As my father (the agnostic) used to say, if you believe in a God that’s so powerful He can create a universe, why shouldn’t you believe He can make a baby?

Will there be a Second Coming? When?

  • As it says in the Gospel of Matthew “no one will know the day or the hour.”

Do you believe that any of the miracles that are recorded in the Bible actually happened (as miracles)? Has God ever made any other miracles? Does he still make them today?

  • I believe there were events that people of that time could not explain, and called miracles. I believe there are still events people can not explain.

Does God manipulate the course of events in the world? Does prayer have an impact on this?

  • I wouldn’t say God never manipulates the course of events, but I believe in free will. I think God more often inspires the actors than creates the act.

Is there a Heaven and Hell? Who gets in? Does it make a difference if someone is a Christian? Does God care if someone is a Christian or not (all else being equal)? What do you think of missionaries spreading the faith?

  • Yes I believe in a life after death, and I also believe we will reap what we have sown. No, I don’t believe God much cares about labels. And I think “witnessing” for one’s faith is fine, as long as it doesn’t turn into the nasty game of “I’m saved and you’re going to Hell.”
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**Was JC the Son of God? What does this mean? Was Mary physically a virgin at the time of his conception? **
Yep - Son of God. I think He had to be male because of the time He was born. AND if all life begins female… It wasn’t just a fluke, spontaneous - it was planned and Of a Virgin? Yep - that way no one else could take credit.
**Will there be a Second Coming? When? **
Yep - When? when you lease expect it. God has a wicked sense of humor; sometimes I think He just wants to prove all the TV preachers wrong.

**Do you believe that any of the miracles that are recorded in the Bible actually happened (as miracles)? **
Yep for the miracles

**Has God ever made any other miracles? **
Miracles to people who weren’t “Chosen”? Yep - Equal Opportunity God

**Does he still make them today? ** I think so - but I think most people are too cynical and jaundiced to notice.

Does God manipulate the course of events in the world?
Oh yeah - He’s got a plan; we don’t see all the parts, but He’s in control.

**Does prayer have an impact on this? ** Yes, no prayer goes unanswered. Sometimes the answer is NO. And just because bad things happen, it doensn’t mean He’s lost control or doesn’t care. He’s got the big picture, we just have a pixel or two.

**Is there a Heaven and Hell? ** Yes to Heaven; and to Hell. Hell is being seperated from God forever. A lot of people who are in church every Sunday will be very surprized when they wake up in Hell. I also believe in Karma. If we harm others, we are punished. It may be here if we’re going to Heaven. There’s no punishment in Heaven. Or it may be in Hell.

**Who gets in? Does it make a difference if someone is a Christian? Does God care if someone is a Christian or not (all else being equal)? ** Now I’m not going to say who gets in. I’m not God. I don’t know. I do know that God sent His Son for everyone. Osama - Hitler - Nero… everyone. And last time I checked, I can’t read minds, or hearts. How do I know who God wants to be there. I just know that I’ll be there. And I suspect that a lot of people who get there will be shocked to see that those people got in. Is it just church going baptists? ick ick ick. B O R I N G - and one thing God is not, is boring. I don’t think He cares about the title Christian - He just cares about our hearts.

Is there purgatory or reincarnation? I like to think we get to chose. If the second coming is a long time off, then we might get bored. Some won’t like waiting… Some don’t want to go back.

**What do you think of missionaries spreading the faith? ** I like missionaries that build schools or run hospitals, etc. If someone asks, then you tell them. But don’t shove it down their throats or beat them with the Bible.

Just my thoughts…

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OK, I’m not a fundamentalist, so…

Yes, He is. This means that He is uniquely the expression of God in human form.

Yes

Yes. I have no idea.

Yes, yes, and yes.

Yes, to the degree that will not interfere with human free will. Prayer can make it possible for God to act.

Yes. Heaven is union with God; hell is separation from Him.

Those who worship Jesus get in. By definition, anyone who worships Jesus is a Christian. God cares if someone is a Christian.

It is not necessary to explicitly profess faith in Christ to be a Christian. Sooner or later, most often repeatedly, all humans are confronted with the choice of accepting the actions of God in their hearts to bring them to full humanity. It may not seem to be Christ to you. It may look like putting your faith that there is a Good, or allowing the reality of the Infinite to enter, or deciding to follow the almost unconscious prompting of a still, small voice to choose the good and reject the evil, but it is always the same Voice.

It has been expressly forbidden for Christians to affirm who they think is not, or should not be, going to heaven. We can condemn actions. We are never allowed to condemn persons.

Unqualified approval.

Regards,
Shodan

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Yes.

That God, the infinitely powerful, infinitely wise, and incomprehensible to mortal minds, came among us in a form that we can understand, because he wants us to know him.

That’s a mechanical detail, of no importance.

Yes.

I don’t know. Certainly not before we have made this world a fit place for Him to return to.

What is a miracle? A miracle is a sign from God. It’s anything that makes you aware of God’s presence in the world. It does not have to mean a massive, visible, disruption of the natural order - in fact, since God made the natural order, why would he want, or need, to disturb it? So, yes, the miracles of the Old Testament happened - even if they were reported incorrectly, and even if there’s a scientific explanation for each one, they were still miracles.

If you look at it right, everything is a miracle. So yes, and yes.

In the final analysis, nothing happens that is not God’s will … we have free will, but He knew how we would use it when He made us. Prayer is an attempt to get closer to God, to bring our wills into line with His … if we pray for something, and it happens, we know that it was His will.

Yes, but I don’t know the details.

Anyone who wants to. Anyone who truly wants to be with God will go to Heaven. Anyone who truly wants otherwise will go to Hell - Hell being the state of permanent separation from God.

Anyone who wants to be with God is a Christian, whether they call themselves that or not. (Or whether they know God by that name or not.)

God loves us and wants us to be with Him. So He is in favour of people wanting to be with Him - who are Christians, by my definition above.

If it helps people know God, it’s a good thing. There are people who have no spiritual direction in their life, if anyone can set them on a path to God, this is good. (But God reveals Himself in different ways to all of us, so there is no one right path which everyone must walk.)

12

I don’t have enough time online right now to answer, but I’m printing it and will be back with my answers tomorrow.

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FTR, I’m a Calvinist on the liberal side of things…

Yes, he was conceived by the Spirit of God inside Mary, making him equally divine and human.

Yes, only God the Father knows. (per Mark 13:32)

Yes, I believe the events in the Bible are actual mriacles. Do they still happen today? I think my answer to this can best be expressed through a monologue from the 1994 hit “Pulp Fiction,” performed by hitman Jules played by the legendary Samuel L. Jackson.

Ahem.

“Don’t you see, Vince, that shit don’t matter. You’re judging this thing the wrong way. It’s not about what. It could be God stopped the bullets, he changed Coke into Pepsi, he found my fuckin’ car keys. You don’t judge shit like this based on merit. Whether or not what we experienced was an according-to-Hoyle miracle is insignificant. What is significant is I felt God’s touch, God got involved.”

So yes, miracles do still happen today, but even if an event can be explained scientifically or otherwise, if the person felt the hand of God, and it strengthened his or her faith-- and/or helped enable God’s will to be done-- it was a miracle.

Everything happens according to God’s will.
Prayer has an impact in that it brings us closer to God, and it can also help us learn what it is God wants from us. Someone who’s lonely may ask God for companionship via a husband or wife. God’s will may not include that for that person right now, but maybe later down the line. In the mean time God may teach that person independence, patience or whatever, making that person a stronger person overall.

In short, nothing will happen that God doesn’t want to happen, but sometimes the process of asking for something and getting it (or more importantly not getting it) can help us better understand God’s plan. (I hope this made sense; I’m at work and time is short, I’m somewhat rushed).

Heaven and hell? yes. Who gets in? Only God knows for sure. Does it make a difference if someone’s a Chirstian? Again, only God knows for sure. I believe my Christain faith is what God requires of me to be with him, but it would be arrogant of me to assume that for everyone. As for ministering, it’s required of Christians to spread the message of the gospel. And if a person is receptive to that message, it was ultimately God’s will and the missionary was God’s tool. If the person is not receptive, that, too, was God’s will.

Happy

14

Lately I consider myself more of a Deist than a Christian, although I suppose I could qualify as an extremely liberal Christian. I’m somewhere between John Shelby Spong and Thomas Paine.

Was JC the Son of God? What does this mean? Was Mary physically a virgin at the time of his conception?
JC (won’t you smile at me?) was not the son of God, nor was his mother a virgin at the time of conception. Jesus was a wise, charismatic man who presented a message of love and inclusiveness to his followers–a radical way of thinking considering the exclusive attitudes of the times. The virgin idea was taken from Isaiah by Matthew to deify Jesus.

Will there be a Second Coming? When?
Nah. Jesus was a man who was executed and died on the cross.

Do you believe that any of the miracles that are recorded in the Bible actually happened (as miracles)? Has God ever made any other miracles? Does he still make them today?
Nope, don’t believe in miracles, except for existence in general. I see cites of miracles in the bible as either symbols, embelishments to deify Jesus and/or satisfy Hebrew scripture, or both. The only miracle I can think of occured between 0<t<0[sup]+[/sup]. My beef with mainstream to conservative Christianity is that it focuses way too much on dogma, and not so much on the message.

Does God manipulate the course of events in the world? Does prayer have an impact on this?
No. I believe in a caring God, but not an interveening God. I only believe in prayer as an offering of thanks.

Is there a Heaven and Hell? Who gets in? Does it make a difference if someone is a Christian? Does God care if someone is a Christian or not (all else being equal)? What do you think of missionaries spreading the faith?
I don’t believe in Hell. Won’t really know whether an afterlife exists period until I get there, although I hope it does. Being a Christian doesn’t matter one way or the other as far as what kind of reward you reap at the end of the line.

I’m not too keen on missionaries trying to convert people, but I do think a lot of them provide invaluable services in the form of education, medicine, and other types of philanthropy in underdeveloped communities without necessarily shoving Jesus down everyone’s throat.

15

I wouldn’t call myself a “liberal”. The fundamentalists would probably call me one, but I also have opinions that real liberals would find horribly old-fashioned and, well, fundamentalish. Anyway, here goes…

Was JC the Son of God? What does this mean?
Yes, He was. What exactly this means is somewhat mysterious, but it’s very clear that Jesus was something more than a really good man or an “ordinary” miracle-worker. I think that this is one of the defining doctrines of Christianity: I know this will offend some people, but I’d say that if you can’t answer “yes” to this question, the label “Christian” does not apply to you.

Was Mary physically a virgin at the time of his conception?
Yes.

** there be a Second Coming? When?**
Yes. Nobody knows when; any day now or thousands of years. I don’t know what it’s going to be like, either, but I expect that most people who think they know will be very surprised.

Do you believe that any of the miracles that are recorded in the Bible actually happened (as miracles)? Has God ever made any other miracles? Does he still make them today?
Yes to all.

Does God manipulate the course of events in the world? Does prayer have an impact on this?
Yes, though I’m not at all sure how it works.

Is there a Heaven and Hell?
Yes.
**Who gets in? Does it make a difference if someone is a Christian? Does God care if someone is a Christian or not (all else being equal)? **
Jesus’ death and resurrection is what makes it possible for people to go to Heaven. Faith is the deciding factor. Those two points are absolutely clear in the Bible. (Well, as clear as anything ever gets in the Bible, y’know.) But Faith in the Christian sense is something more and different than just saying “I believe these statements are true.” So I think (I think) that people who never heard the “Good News”, or who never had it presented to them in a form that they were able to accept, still have a chance, if they respond in Faith to whatever God has revealed of Himself to them. That’s why I would (almost?) never say to anyone “You are definitely going to Hell.” Because I don’t know how things are between you and God. But that doesn’t mean that “it doesn’t matter what you believe as long as you’re sincere,” if you see what I mean. Make any sense?

What do you think of missionaries spreading the faith?
I’m in favor of it. Mainly because it’s something that God has specifically told us to do.

16

Okay, in reading the previous responses, maybe I’m a bit too liberal, but here goes.

I don’t believe that the Bible was written as a science or history text book. It was written over a long period of time by people who wanted to pass along certain moral ideas. Sadly, too many people bicker over the im/plausibility of putting 2 of every species on a boat to recognize that the real purpose of the Bible.

Was Jesus the son of God? Aren’t we all… whatever we define God as.

Was Mary a virgin? I don’t believe that the original text claimed that she was. Subsequent translations have reached that conclusion.

I believe in God the Divine Clock Maker. Each of us is a miracle; every day is; our ability to understand the universe is, the piscine excretory system is. The miracle was the process of evolution… of life itself.

Heaven and Hell. I think they are what you make them here on earth. There is nobody with fuzzy sideburns waiting at a gate, nor a cloven-footed devil in a lake of fire. If there is a heaven, it is meant to be a mystery. Getting in doesn’t require being Christian. Christians didn’t invent religion, not even their own God.

Missionaries who provide love, support and resources are good so long as they each the freedom to choose one’s own faith. So far as I know there aren’t many zealots so devoted to freedom of thought in the missionary world, so I’m skeptical.

Christianity has been successful - despite a terrible track record by its practitioners - because it is a religion that espouses love, forgiveness and respect. But that there were more Christians in this world…

17

Jesus is the son of God.
What does this mean? He is the second person of the trinity.
God is spirit, no body. Jesus had a body(still does)

Mary a virgin? Yes. God did not have sex with her, He miraculously implanted the whateverwasneeded to impregnate her.

Second Coming? Yes, it couldn’t have happened til Israel became a state again. I beleive in a 7 year Tribulation with an Antichrist.

Miracles: yep, all happened. Today? yep, God miraculously kept me healthy after what I did.

Does God manipulate world events? It says in the Bible He installs leaders, so whoeve ris in charge of a country, apparently God wantedit that way.
Note: in some cases, He seems to be punishing the country this way i.e.Saddam, Castro, somewouldsayBush.

Heaven? Hell? yes. Who gets in? Ask God.
Missionaries: I thinke verybody knows the gospel already.

18

Me:

And, to add: I believe these teachings were a manifestation of God’s true will and that Jesus can be considered a figurative “Son of God” in this respect. But based on this criteria, that label can be applied to anyone who has spread this sort of message through words and action. And while Jesus is certainly one of the figures I refer to in ascertaining the “Christian” message, I’m not going to disregard others who promote the same ideal, regardless of what their beliefs are or if they’ve even heard of Jesus.