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  #1  
Old 03-01-2003, 11:12 AM
syncrolecyne syncrolecyne is offline
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What is the difference between "University of ____" and _______ State University?

Most U.S. states have two major public university systems. For instance there is the University of California system and the Calfornia State system. What is the difference, if any?
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  #2  
Old 03-01-2003, 11:43 AM
Ringo Ringo is offline
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It's a multi-tiered educational system. Generally speaking, the "University of XXX at wherever" would be in the top tier, with somewhat higher admissions standards, while "State" is the second tier. Of course, all of the academics will want to be employed in the top tier, so one might postulate that the research and instruction might be of a slightly better qualiity in the top tier.

In reality, I think the net difference has little effect on most peoples' lives.
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Old 03-01-2003, 11:56 AM
Wendell Wagner Wendell Wagner is offline
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There's no consistency in the use of these names. In Ohio, it's the opposite of the way that Ringo suggests. Ohio State is larger and has more graduate and professional programs than Ohio University.
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  #4  
Old 03-01-2003, 12:07 PM
Dignan Dignan is offline
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I had always been told that "State" was the ag. school and "University of ..." was the "regular" school.
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Old 03-01-2003, 12:08 PM
Ringo Ringo is offline
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Yeah, I actually thought of Ohio State when I wrote that; hence "generally speaking." Nevertheless, the multi-tier system is supposed to have a top tier that is more academically rigorous and diverse, while the second tier exists to ensure a steady supply of trained worker bees.
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  #6  
Old 03-01-2003, 12:27 PM
JeffB JeffB is offline
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There's no single distinction. For example, the University of Pennsylvania is a private institution, whereas the Pennsylvania State University is a public one.
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  #7  
Old 03-01-2003, 12:32 PM
Polycarp Polycarp is offline
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Quite simply, what they decided to name them. There is absolutely no consistency, no standard rule.

That said, there is one guideline that seems to be true in several cases: The "University of Franklin" is the growth of an early state liberal arts school, while "Franklin State University" derives from a land-grant college based on the Morrill Act. U. of Michigan and MSU, and UNC and NCSU follow this format, and I believe it's the case in several other states.
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  #8  
Old 03-01-2003, 12:48 PM
ElvisL1ves ElvisL1ves is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dignan
I had always been told that "State" was the ag. school and "University of ..." was the "regular" school.
In some cases, the "State" school used to be called "Agricultural and Mechanical School" (Oklahoma State U. and New Mexico State U., for instance). That suggests they were founded under the Morrill Act, which provided federal funding for each state to establish a college for practical arts. States that already had a "University of" usually started a separate campus.

It may be that, for the former A&M schools, they had eventually expanded their curricula to the extent that the old names no longer fit well, and they got tired of being the butt of Aggie jokes too. If the "U. of" name was already taken, that left "State U." as the best alternative.
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  #9  
Old 03-01-2003, 01:02 PM
TWDuke TWDuke is offline
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The University of California system has fewer campuses, higher admission standards and a greater emphasis on research and postgraduate education than the California State University system.

Nevertheless, CSU does more than train worker bees. Some students feel they can get a better education there as professors are more likely to be involved in actual instruction of students. I've taken UC courses where we hardly ever saw the big-name professor and a student ran the class. In my CSU experience, the person whose name was in the catalogue taught the class.
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  #10  
Old 03-01-2003, 03:12 PM
Will Repair Will Repair is offline
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So where does "The University of the State of New York" fit in?
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  #11  
Old 03-01-2003, 04:04 PM
Topologist Topologist is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by AcidKid
So where does "The University of the State of New York" fit in?
Others will correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that New York's public university system was created rather late. Until then they relied on private universities. One consequence is that the state provides more direct aid to private universities than is usual. The state system is usually referred to as SUNY, the State University of New York, and doesn't really have a second tier. I guess they figured they could load up on all the names. The name also helps to distinguish it from CUNY, the City University of New York.
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  #12  
Old 03-01-2003, 04:13 PM
Polycarp Polycarp is offline
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The "University of the State of New York" is the body consisting of the Regents who head the state's Department of Education and who make the requirements for high school diplomas, certificates for teaching in the public school system, etc., along with the staff that supports their work. It's not a degree-granting, course-giving institution in the sense that, say, the University of Michigan or Ohio State University is, or even a confederation of schools under a single aegis like the University of North Carolina System and the University of California System are.
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  #13  
Old 03-01-2003, 04:16 PM
Polycarp Polycarp is offline
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Added: Distinguish the above from the "State University of New York" which is a confederation like the two examples I gave, including campuses at Stony Brook, Buffalo, Albany, and Binghamton (and somewhere else I cannot remember), and colleges of varying descriptions at Oswego, Potsdam, Plattsburgh, Geneseo, etc., as well as the A&T schools at Canton, Morrisville, etc., and, indirectly, the community colleges of the counties of the state.
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  #14  
Old 03-01-2003, 04:26 PM
Will Repair Will Repair is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Polycarp
It's not a degree-granting, course-giving institution ...
Thanks for the information but they do grant degrees.
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  #15  
Old 03-01-2003, 04:27 PM
Terminus Est Terminus Est is offline
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And don't forget, the land-grant institution of New York State is actually Cornell Univeristy. Colleges here are distinguished by either being "endowed" (private) or "statutory" (state-funded).
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  #16  
Old 03-01-2003, 04:29 PM
racinchikki racinchikki is offline
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There's a SUNY Cobleskill, but I don't know if it's a college or an actual campus like as to the one in Albany.

In the case of Mississippi, University Of (Ole Miss) is the one everybody knows and is more prestigious, and State U (Miss State, where I attended one and one-half semesters before getting sick of being The Yankee) is the ag. college. And used to be a military school.
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  #17  
Old 03-01-2003, 04:56 PM
Terminus Est Terminus Est is offline
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I've never heard of the University of the State of New York. Which is strange since, given my location, I should have heard about them. A quick trip to Google led me to their website http://www.nysed.gov/, where you will find that UsNY is actually the State Education Department.
Quote:
http://usny.nysed.gov/aboutusny.html
Who We Are

The University of the State of New York (USNY) is the most complete, interconnected system of educational services in the United States. USNY includes:
  • More than 7,000 public and private elementary and secondary schools;
  • 248 public and private colleges and universities;
  • 251 proprietary (for-profit) schools;
  • Nearly 7,000 libraries;
  • 750 museums;
  • The State Archives;
  • Vocational rehabilitation and other services for adults with disabilities;
  • Special education services for pre-school and school-age children and teenagers;
  • A special School for the Blind;
  • A special School for the Deaf;
  • 25 public broadcasting facilities, including seven public television stations;
  • More than half a million professionals practicing in 38 licensed professions, including pharmacy, architecture, accounting, and nursing; and
  • 200,000 certified public school teachers, counselors, and administrators.

Who We Are Not

The University of the State of New York (USNY) is not the same as The State University of New York (SUNY). SUNY is the State's system of public colleges and universities. While the SUNY system is part of the 248 colleges and universities included in The University of the State of New York, SUNY is a separate and distinct organization with its own administration.
Every public and private university, college, high school, elementary school, and special education school in the state is under its purview. It is a degree-granting institution only in the sense that it authorizes other educational institutions in the state to do so. There is no actual campus that you can drive out to and see a big sign that says "The University of the State of New York" with buildings and dorms and teachers and students. You will never receive a diploma that has "The University of the State of New York" written on it in Gothic script.
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  #18  
Old 03-01-2003, 05:05 PM
Will Repair Will Repair is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Terminus Est
You will never receive a diploma that has "The University of the State of New York" written on it in Gothic script.
Again, yes you will. And I'm sorry, I can't cite my wall.
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  #19  
Old 03-01-2003, 05:09 PM
Terminus Est Terminus Est is offline
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I type corrected. Would you mind telling us which school you went to?
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  #20  
Old 03-01-2003, 05:26 PM
Will Repair Will Repair is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Terminus Est
Would you mind telling us which school you went to?
Didn't attend a school. Took GREs, CLEP, DANTES, and had credits from other schools. Once I had enough credits and waited until class graduation (May) I was given the degree. It was a program offered through the military for people who could not met resident status (last 45 credits thing) that all other universites have. Some described it as a paper mill but I scored 98% on the Education GRE and was given -3 points for duplicating course work. I was offered a sociology and psycology degree but I liked the sound of "Liberal Studies," not Liberal Arts but Liberal Studies.
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  #21  
Old 03-01-2003, 05:42 PM
Terminus Est Terminus Est is offline
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So basically they acredited everything you already had and granted you a degree? Fantastic!
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  #22  
Old 03-01-2003, 05:55 PM
Will Repair Will Repair is offline
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Almost everything. The credits had to confirm to the usual university requirements of so many hours this and so many that. The credits obtained through exams were to fulfill those requirements. Should I have bought a class ring?

Back to the OP, did I get a degree outside the two, University of ___, and ___ State University, system?
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  #23  
Old 03-01-2003, 06:17 PM
Terminus Est Terminus Est is offline
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Well, New York doesn't really have a "University of _____" system, only a "____ State University" system, which is actually called the "State University of New York". It looks like your diploma came directly from the State Education Department in its guise as USNY.
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  #24  
Old 03-01-2003, 10:40 PM
monstro monstro is online now
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Sorta like Rutgers, the State University of New Jersey.

There's a rumor that if (when?) Rutgers combines with NJIT and UMDNJ, the whole shebang will be renamed the University of New Jersey. Not as cool as State University of New Jersey, if you ask me.
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  #25  
Old 03-01-2003, 11:55 PM
Wendell Wagner Wendell Wagner is offline
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AcidKid writes:

> Didn't attend a school. Took GREs, CLEP, DANTES, and had
> credits from other schools. Once I had enough credits and
> waited until class graduation (May) I was given the degree. It
> was a program offered through the military for people who
> could not met resident status (last 45 credits thing) that all
> other universites have. Some described it as a paper mill but I
> scored 98% on the Education GRE and was given -3 points for
> duplicating course work. I was offered a sociology and
> psycology degree but I liked the sound of "Liberal Studies," not
> Liberal Arts but Liberal Studies.

What this sounds a lot like is the Open University in the U.K., a national program which doesn't have any classrooms or faculty of its own, but which awards university degrees. They use other university's courses and do courses on T.V. I don't know how it works exactly, but I think it's somewhat like the University of the State of New York, if I understand what you're saying.
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  #26  
Old 03-02-2003, 12:28 AM
postcards postcards is offline
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Actually, the New York State SUNY system does have two tiers, as it seemed Polycarp was about to say (I thought).

There are the 'University at' schools (Stony Brook, Buffalo, Albany, Binghamton, and most recently New Paltz) and the 'State University College' schools, which, other than Oneonta, I can't think of the names of. The acedemic and entrance standards are higher at the Universities than the colleges, but I believe the per-credit tuition is the same.

Isn't 'The University of the State of New York' where Felicity went?
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  #27  
Old 03-02-2003, 12:33 AM
Wendell Wagner Wendell Wagner is offline
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No, Felicity in the program of that name went to New York University, which is a private university in New York City.
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  #28  
Old 03-02-2003, 02:31 AM
ChrystinP ChrystinP is offline
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The University of Georgia was founded in the late 1700s. Georgia State University started out as the night school version of Georgia Institute of Technology in the early 20th century. As time and circumstances changed so did the name of the university until it was finally named Georgia State University. Most GSU alumni think of themselves as the better educated group and the UGA folks as the party school kids. You pay more bucks to go to the U of GA, you tend to be almost a decade younger, and you party a lot. The GSU folks tend to be 'serious' learners who are working while attending college. It is a great urban university. It's probably obvious that I went to GSU. My guess is someone from UGA would have a different take on which school is better.
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  #29  
Old 03-02-2003, 08:05 AM
Spavined Gelding Spavined Gelding is offline
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I can't help what you people in New York and California do, but out here in the Midwest the only rule seems to be that the earliest founded public university is "the University of (your state's name here)," while the next one is "(your state's name here) State University." In Iowa there is little difference between the academic rigor and admission standards at the two schools although one may have programs that the other does not. Some states, like Wisconsin, have one system and several campuses--thus the U of W at Plattville.

What does get confusing is every once in a while they change the names. When I was in school we had:
The State University of Iowa
Iowa State University
Iowa State Teachers College
then the names were changed to:
The University of Iowa
Iowa State University
The University of Northern Iowa.
While Iowa State was originally set up as an A&M, and has the veterinary medicine school and the ag school and the larger engineering school, the days of an academic distinction between the two are long past. All three are in the same system supervised by a single board of regents although each has its our separate administration.

We at least have not followed Ohio's lead and have not tried to enhance one or another of the universities by calling it THE University of ....
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  #30  
Old 03-02-2003, 11:29 AM
brachyrhynchos brachyrhynchos is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by monstro
Sorta like Rutgers, the State University of New Jersey.

There's a rumor that if (when?) Rutgers combines with NJIT and UMDNJ, the whole shebang will be renamed the University of New Jersey. Not as cool as State University of New Jersey, if you ask me.
The Rutgers name will be retained. A few years ago, there was a proposal for a name change to the State University of New Jersey and dropping Rutgers. That was roundly booed at and the sanity of the proposer questioned. When the idea of a merge came up, the name question was one of the first addressed. The name Rutgers will be someplace (and how could we loose the infamous RU screw?)

(I don't think the merge is going to happen, at least not at the moment. Rutgers had a 7% cut in funding last year and is facing a 12% cut this year. Here in the entomology department, we've got to find about $30,000 to give back Given that the merge barely considered NJIT, didn't touch on Rutger's land-grant college [Cook], the business, liberal arts nor law schools, and will be expensive as hell, nor did they consider the current active participation between UMDNJ and Rutgers, I don't think this is going to happen soon. A better plan needs to come down the turnpike. Or at least Route 1.)
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  #31  
Old 03-02-2003, 11:33 AM
herman_and_bill herman_and_bill is offline
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The Morrill act gave each state land for the establishment of agricultural and mechanical colleges, in Ohio it is called Ohio State
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  #32  
Old 03-02-2003, 12:34 PM
monstro monstro is online now
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Sorry, ChrystinP, but the very fact that GSU is considered an "urban-commuter" school makes it have a lower reputation than UGA. UGA has more resources to work with and "bigger" faculty names. Also, just everybody and their momma goes to UGA straight from high school. GSU tends to be the school everyone goes to when they wash out of other schools. I think people very unfairly tend to view GSU as just a couple of steps above a community college, but then again it IS less selective than UGA. Comparisons between graduate schools may be different, though.

While both are good schools, Georgia Tech is superior to all.


brachyrhynchos, that's good to know (about the merger).
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  #33  
Old 03-02-2003, 02:59 PM
Shoeless Shoeless is offline
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Along the same lines of the original question but slightly different, why are some schools "University of <state x>" and others "<state x> University"?
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