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  #1  
Old 04-11-2003, 10:11 AM
Surreal Surreal is online now
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Do People Who Spank Their Kids Become Aroused By Doing So?

Do you think that child spanking is done as an attempt to provide negative reinforcement purely as a disciplinary action, or do you believe it is a sexual act?

Think about the process- the child is bent over the parent's lap, doggystyle. The lap just so happens to be within very close proximity to the genitalia. Then the child's pants are then pulled down, supposedly to ensure that the spanking hurts more, because, as we all know, that extra millimeter of fabric makes for a huge difference in how bad a blow to that region would hurt.

Sure, but you say that the buttocks are not a sexual body part. Then why is it illegal to expose them in public? Why can't they be shown on network television??

If a man were to swat a female co-worker on the rear, he would likely be accused of sexual harassment. However, if he did the same thing to his daughter, no one would say a word. Why is this?

During intercourse, why is it that so many women are aroused by a few swift, well-timed swats to the buttocks? Coincidence??

During spanking, a succession of blows is delivered to the area at a rate of about 0.8 swats per second. During orgasm, contractions of the prostate and the vagina both occur at a 0.8 second interval. Coincidence?

During intercourse, the fatty tissue of a woman's upper body experiences the 'sex flush'. During spanking, the fatty tissue of the buttocks experiences engorgement and redness. Coincidence?

Do you think that child spanking is some sort of a sexual thing? Do the parents who do this to their kids receive sexual gratification from doing it??

Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 04-11-2003, 10:16 AM
Mangetout Mangetout is online now
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Re: Do People Who Spank Their Kids Become Aroused By Doing So?

This is a joke, right?
  #3  
Old 04-11-2003, 10:19 AM
Crafter_Man Crafter_Man is offline
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And I thought I had seen it all…
  #4  
Old 04-11-2003, 10:20 AM
bernse bernse is offline
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Quote:
Do you think that child spanking is some sort of a sexual thing? Do the parents who do this to their kids receive sexual gratification from doing it??
Maybe if their pedophilic sadists.

Otherwise, no.
  #5  
Old 04-11-2003, 10:20 AM
Parrothead Parrothead is offline
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I know that I have not posted enough to have the ability to give this award, so can I merely nominate this for "most ridiculous post of the week" award?

I knew what I was getting into when I saw the title, but it was like a car wreck, I just had to slow down and look. (Although to be honest, I don't slow down to look at car wrecks, it's a figure of speech. )
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  #6  
Old 04-11-2003, 10:21 AM
bernse bernse is offline
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their = they're

Oh well.
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Old 04-11-2003, 10:22 AM
Bricker Bricker is offline
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Re: Do People Who Spank Their Kids Become Aroused By Doing So?

Quote:
Originally posted by Surreal
Think about the process- the child is bent over the parent's lap, doggystyle. The lap just so happens to be within very close proximity to the genitalia. Then the child's pants are then pulled down, supposedly to ensure that the spanking hurts more, because, as we all know, that extra millimeter of fabric makes for a huge difference in how bad a blow to that region would hurt.
The difference is not an "extra millimeter" of fabric. This is a disingenuous statement. A hand slapping bare flesh stings; slapping clothed flesh does not sting as much.

Quote:
Sure, but you say that the buttocks are not a sexual body part. Then why is it illegal to expose them in public? Why can't they be shown on network television??
Ask Dennis Franz.

Quote:
If a man were to swat a female co-worker on the rear, he would likely be accused of sexual harassment. However, if he did the same thing to his daughter, no one would say a word. Why is this?
Because in the parent-child relationship, the parent is in a position of guidance and authority, and is an adult. While adults also have positions of guidance and authority over one another, both are adults. Today, it's considered inappropriate contact in the professional world. But not always - secretaries in the thirties, for example, often had to put up with grab-assy bosses, and the words "sexual harrassment" meant nothing.

In short, the quesiton you ask, like the others you ask, proves nothing, and does not even lay out a premise for debate.

Quote:
During intercourse, why is it that so many women are aroused by a few swift, well-timed swats to the buttocks? Coincidence??
Are they? How many women, percentage-wise, are thus aroused?

Quote:
During spanking, a succession of blows is delivered to the area at a rate of about 0.8 swats per second. During orgasm, contractions of the prostate and the vagina both occur at a 0.8 second interval. Coincidence?
Cite?

Quote:
During intercourse, the fatty tissue of a woman's upper body experiences the 'sex flush'. During spanking, the fatty tissue of the buttocks experiences engorgement and redness. Coincidence?
Yes, coincidence.

Quote:
Do you think that child spanking is some sort of a sexual thing? Do the parents who do this to their kids receive sexual gratification from doing it??
In general, I don't think it's a sexual thing. Undoubtedly, there are cases in which this is not so, but I suspect they are few indeed.

- Rick
  #8  
Old 04-11-2003, 10:26 AM
Surreal Surreal is online now
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I'm certainly not the only one who has this opinion-

http://www.nospank.net/sexdngrs.htm
  #9  
Old 04-11-2003, 10:27 AM
Mangetout Mangetout is online now
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Re: Do People Who Spank Their Kids Become Aroused By Doing So?

Quote:
Originally posted by Surreal
If a man were to swat a female co-worker on the rear, he would likely be accused of sexual harassment. However, if he did the same thing to his daughter, no one would say a word. Why is this?
If a man were to undress his co-worker and wash her in a bath, remaining present throughout the whole process, when she does not particularly want this to happen, he would be arrested, if he did it to his daughter, no one would say a word. Why is this?
  #10  
Old 04-11-2003, 10:27 AM
TV time TV time is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by bernse
Maybe if their pedophilic sadists.

Otherwise, no.
Remember it is his or her own kid, so it would be "Incestous pedophilic sadists."
  #11  
Old 04-11-2003, 10:28 AM
Rushgeekgirl Rushgeekgirl is offline
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I dunno, Mange. I've seen this brought up with all seriousness on some parenting boards.

My reply:
I've only spanked my 13 year old daughter once, and while it was due to my own loss of control in a scary situation, I just can't see it as a sexual thing. I have many friends that spank their kids, and I was spanked too. I've never known any that made their kids drop their pants in the manner you described. And it actually makes me laugh to think of my old grandpaw getting off on spanking me for getting caught on the roof or riding my bike in the street. He thought he was doing the right thing, and to be perfectly honest, it worked. It hurt, but it worked.

I have no idea why some women are aroused by spanking. I'm not. Are men not aroused by it either? Were they not spanked too?

What do you mean they can't show ass on television? I see it all the time. Hell, for months they showed that John Doe commercial with his bare naked ass, and any of those lame reality shows has thonged ass o'plenty.

I tell you what you should really go after: Those parents who forced their kids to sit in corners, on display for all mock. Or the ones that starved their kids by making them go to bed without dinner. Sure, they usually snuck something up later, or got extra bacon for breakfast the next morning. Still, imagine the complex those poor kids must have!
  #12  
Old 04-11-2003, 10:29 AM
Surreal Surreal is online now
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Mangetout, children *require* bathing. They DON'T require spanking. There's a big difference.
  #13  
Old 04-11-2003, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Surreal
I'm certainly not the only one who has this opinion-

http://www.nospank.net/sexdngrs.htm
Having a loud voice doesn't preclude someone from being an idiot.
  #14  
Old 04-11-2003, 10:36 AM
Surreal Surreal is online now
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Turek-"Having a loud voice doesn't preclude someone from being an idiot."

And calling someone an 'idiot' doesn't prove them wrong and you right, either.
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Old 04-11-2003, 10:36 AM
bernse bernse is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by TV time
Remember it is his or her own kid, so it would be "Incestous pedophilic sadists."
Touche'
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Old 04-11-2003, 10:36 AM
FairyChatMom FairyChatMom is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Parrothead
I know that I have not posted enough to have the ability to give this award, so can I merely nominate this for "most ridiculous post of the week" award?
That was my reaction also. I was sitting here shaking my head, absolutely speechless. Then again, I never spanked my kid, and while my folks occasionally smacked us, then never turned us over their knees or bared our butts.

Why do some people try to find sex in the unlikeliest places? GAH!
  #17  
Old 04-11-2003, 10:37 AM
ratatoskK ratatoskK is offline
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I was spanked like that by my father. I didn't notice anything sexual about it, however he did seem to get himself worked into a fury and seemed to get some kind of pleasure out of doing the spanking. Whether it was purely emotional, a power trip, partly sexual, who knows?? I certainly hated it.

I don't think it's a silly question. Whether it's sexual or not, spanking children in that manner is very sick.
  #18  
Old 04-11-2003, 10:37 AM
Gorgon Heap Gorgon Heap is offline
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I'm, aghast. Absolutely aghast. You don't have kids do you, Surreal?

I don't even know what to say to this so I'm gust going to agree with what TV Time called it.
  #19  
Old 04-11-2003, 10:40 AM
bernse bernse is offline
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Quote:
Then why is it illegal to expose them in public? Why can't they be shown on network television??
I've seen bare buttocks on TV and in public all the time.
Quote:
Whether it's sexual or not, spanking children in that manner is very sick
I think exposing a childs bare behind just to spank it may be unnecessary, but it is a stretch to call spanking in general sick.
  #20  
Old 04-11-2003, 10:42 AM
Turek Turek is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Surreal
Turek-"Having a loud voice doesn't preclude someone from being an idiot."

And calling someone an 'idiot' doesn't prove them wrong and you right, either.
True. But I figure if I'm going to assume someone is wrong, and it's between me and an idiot, I'm probably going to think it's the idiot.

This whole thread is as absurd as if I asked "Do people live in Gobbler's Knob because they become aroused by doing so?"
  #21  
Old 04-11-2003, 10:48 AM
Parrothead Parrothead is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by ratatoskK
I certainly hated it.
I know we're getting off track here (no, it's not sexual, unless you are pretty deviant in the first place, and then the child probably has larger problems than spanking to deal with)...

But isn't hating it the POINT?

If you LIKED it, it wouldn't be punishment, would it?

And I also agree with FairyChatMom. I got smacked a few times when I was a kid, and it never did me any harm. I was not however forced to drop my drawers (and neither was any other person I have ever spoken to). Anything taken to an extreme is abuse. A whack on the fanny, I have no problem with.
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  #22  
Old 04-11-2003, 10:55 AM
Casey1505 Casey1505 is offline
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While I'm sure the blood flow in many parents is re-routed, I'm certain that in all cases, it is to the blood vessel in their temple. I'm sure that is the only bulge to be found when spanking your kid.
  #23  
Old 04-11-2003, 11:09 AM
greck greck is offline
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I'm a therapist,
I work quite a bit with kids, have done coursework in human sexuality, I'm pretty knowledgeable about this type of stuff.

While I'd not rule out the possibilty that SOMEONE out there gets aroused by spanking his/her kid, I would definitely answer the op question with a "NO."

You're forgetting that sexual arousal requires context. It's during sexual arousal that the touch of the buttocks feels good sexually, not otherwise. So for there to be some sort of attempt at arousal via spanking, there would have to be some sort of foreplay, etc. Are these parents supposed to be wining and dining junior before they give him a whoopin?

I would like to add: "what kind of sick puppy are you anyway?"

I would further nitpick that "negative reinforcement" is the reinforcement of a behavior by removing an undesireable stimulus. For instance, the removal of the discomfort of a nicoteine fit is what reinforces the smoking behavior in the case of cigarette addiction.
So, what you're actually saying is that the cessation of spanking serves to reinforce some behavior, I think.

In conclusion, either you were not really serious about this, or you're seriously ignorant.
  #24  
Old 04-11-2003, 11:30 AM
Surreal Surreal is online now
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greck- "You're forgetting that sexual arousal requires context. It's during sexual arousal that the touch of the buttocks feels good sexually, not otherwise. So for there to be some sort of attempt at arousal via spanking, there would have to be some sort of foreplay, etc. Are these parents supposed to be wining and dining junior before they give him a whoopin?"

So you think that every guy who's ever grabbed at or fondled some woman had to have been 'wining and dining' her beforehand?
  #25  
Old 04-11-2003, 11:33 AM
Bricker Bricker is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Surreal
Turek-"Having a loud voice doesn't preclude someone from being an idiot."

And calling someone an 'idiot' doesn't prove them wrong and you right, either.
No, but the inability to cogently defend a thesis is not a condition that opens you to compliment.

You have wisely posted this in IMHO, but then framed it as a pseudo-debate.

Since it's in IMHO, I gather that you are merely looking for others' opinions. They are represented well above.

If you have any actual evidence to support your inferences and conclusion, toss it out.

- Rick
  #26  
Old 04-11-2003, 11:33 AM
Palo Verde Palo Verde is offline
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Might I add that most spanking that I or anyone else I know of is not done in the manner you describe.

I don't take off their pants or bend them over my lap. Just a hand smacking a clothed (usually standing) bottom.

I'm sure some do it the way you talked about, but it isn't necessary for spanking to occur.

So now we've taken away the unclothed idea, and the genitals-in-close-proximity idea. Do you still consider the manner I describe it sexual?
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Old 04-11-2003, 11:42 AM
FairyChatMom FairyChatMom is offline
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By linking grabbing and fondling, to my mind, you're getting to a rape scenario. And rape isn't about sex - it's about power. And it's another conversation entirely.
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Old 04-11-2003, 11:47 AM
Palo Verde Palo Verde is offline
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Might I add that most spanking that I or anyone else I know of is not done in the manner you describe.

I don't take off their pants or bend them over my lap. Just a hand smacking a clothed (usually standing) bottom.

I'm sure some do it the way you talked about, but it isn't necessary for spanking to occur.

So now we've taken away the unclothed idea, and the genitals-in-close-proximity idea. Do you still consider the manner I describe it sexual?
  #29  
Old 04-11-2003, 11:47 AM
Surreal Surreal is online now
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I don't know, autz. I'm not positive about all of this, which is why I asked.

But since I can't see any reason for spanking a child, I have to speculate as to what the *real* reason might be.

Why do you spank your kids?
  #30  
Old 04-11-2003, 11:56 AM
greck greck is offline
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Quote:
[i]Originally posted by Surreal


So you think that every guy who's ever grabbed at or fondled some woman had to have been 'wining and dining' her beforehand?
That's about dominance, and general assholery. Maybe a misguided attempt to forego the wining and dining. Probably More like chatmom said, rape, or pre-rape.

The reason to spank a child is to pair the pain of being spanked with the act of whatever it is that got them in trouble. In this way, the child understands that (for example) cussing gets them hit; they therefore are likely to avoid cussing in order to avoid getting hit (in theory, the ethics and efficacy of spanking as discipline is another conversation). This is psych 101 stuff, operant conditioning.
Maybe you should study basic psychology before trying anything so advanced as calling parents perverts for spanking their children.
  #31  
Old 04-11-2003, 12:05 PM
Bricker Bricker is offline
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I have a toddler.

We spank very infrequently, in a situation in which he's putting himself in serious danger... being at Grandma's house with keys in hand, heading for an electrical socket. We feel that the shock and pain of a swat across the bottom (the diapered bottom, I might add) is an effective teacher, since he's not yet speaking enough to explain things to. And of course the shock of the swat and the yell is MUCH better than the shock of 120 volts of house current might be.

I anticipate phasing out spanking as his language skills develop to the point where he can understand what we're saying and why we're saying it.

While I doubt that there is any sexual component to the vast majority of bare-bottom spankings, I don't forsee using that technique in raising my child.

- Rick
  #32  
Old 04-11-2003, 12:08 PM
Bricker Bricker is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Surreal
I don't know, autz. I'm not positive about all of this, which is why I asked.

But since I can't see any reason for spanking a child, I have to speculate as to what the *real* reason might be.

Why do you spank your kids?
I think this is a highly disingenuous statement. Surely you don't mean you don't see any logical reasoning at all behind spanking?

Perhaps you mean that you, personally, are unconvinced it's the most effective method of teaching a child. Certainly, reasonable people may disagree on this point.

But for you to say that you simply don't see any reason, apart from repressed sexual dominance, for a parent to spank a child is frankly unbelievable. And I don't believe you.
  #33  
Old 04-11-2003, 12:13 PM
lachesis lachesis is offline
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let's see, why do kids get spanked?
  • o they've directly disobeyed a well-known order or other parental guidance

    o they've engaged in behavior that has put themselves, others, or both in proximate danger of life and/or limb

    o while not perhaps disobeying a "direct" order or command, they have engaged in behavior that has had extraordinary consequences on property, others, or events (i.e., pulling the fire alarm at a theater or church; cutting off all their sibling's hair; using housepaint to decorate family car*). understood within this context is that child, while not having been specifically directed not to do this, did realize that it was something that should NOT have been done in the first place.

    o has engaged in whiny, spoiled-brat behavior for such a prolonged period that any reasonable adult would understandably lose patience and apply a well-deserved swat. (i only wish this was much more common, particularly in stores and other public areas.)


yup, those sound like pretty standard occasions to me.

lachesis

*all examples are purely hypothetical, and have not been engaged in by the correspondent.
  #34  
Old 04-11-2003, 12:13 PM
Surreal Surreal is online now
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Okay, Bricker, that sounds reasonable to me.

The bare-bottom spanking method that SOME parents use on their children looks very suspicious to me, however.
  #35  
Old 04-11-2003, 12:17 PM
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Originally posted by Parrothead
I know that I have not posted enough to have the ability to give this award, so can I merely nominate this for "most ridiculous post of the week" award?
I disagree completely. I think it's the most ridiculous post of the month.
  #36  
Old 04-11-2003, 12:19 PM
Bricker Bricker is offline
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The more a spanking becomes a ritual, Surreal, the more I begin to distrust the motive of the spanker. A quick spank, at the moment of misbehavior, is a highly effective way of using pain to impart a lesson. Negative reinforcement is a powerful teacher, after all.

The more remote in time the spanking is from the offense, the less teaching value it has. If you're talking about a highly ritualized behavior, employed on an older child, remote in time from the offense, then would say I don't agree it's an effective parenting tool - and I would agree that the motives of the spanker are at least open to question.
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Old 04-11-2003, 12:21 PM
Shagnasty Shagnasty is offline
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[Freud] Sometimes a spank is just a spank. [/Freud]
  #38  
Old 04-11-2003, 12:24 PM
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BTW, cool band: www.thebigspank.com
  #39  
Old 04-11-2003, 12:27 PM
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This is the craziest "serious" thread I have seen on here in weeks.

People only get spanked in the manner in which you so graphically described in the movies or by old, crotchitty people. I know my parents would beat my ass as soon as they got a hold of one of my arms. There was no "structure" to it like you describe.

In fact I don't know anyone who has spanked their kid like that.

I have spanked my daughter a few times but it is mostly for shock value when she won't listen or does something dangerous. I have never spanked her bare ass.

This is silly.
  #40  
Old 04-11-2003, 12:34 PM
missbunny missbunny is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Surreal
Okay, Bricker, that sounds reasonable to me.

The bare-bottom spanking method that SOME parents use on their children looks very suspicious to me, however.
Maybe they do it that way because it hurts more?
  #41  
Old 04-11-2003, 12:37 PM
Casey1505 Casey1505 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bricker
The more a spanking becomes a ritual, Surreal, the more I begin to distrust the motive of the spanker. A quick spank, at the moment of misbehavior, is a highly effective way of using pain to impart a lesson. Negative reinforcement is a powerful teacher, after all.

The more remote in time the spanking is from the offense, the less teaching value it has. If you're talking about a highly ritualized behavior, employed on an older child, remote in time from the offense, then would say I don't agree it's an effective parenting tool - and I would agree that the motives of the spanker are at least open to question.
Not to link children and pets, but this is the same principle as smacking your dog on the snout if you see him shit on the carpet. If you catch him in the act, a rap on the snout is pretty effective. If you come downstairs to see a pile, you really shouldn't smack the dog, as he will have no idea why he is being punished.

While you don't smack the kid on the face, a spank to the butt is just as effective, if used properly.

And behind every spank must be clear justification to the child. If Joey is just sitting watching cartoons when you find his scribblings on the wall of your fancy dining room and did not see him do it, a smack is unwarranted. There is a fine line between a slap for discipline, and a slap "to show who's boss". One is to correct behavior, the other is being a thug.
  #42  
Old 04-11-2003, 12:47 PM
greck greck is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Surreal

The bare-bottom spanking method that SOME parents use on their children looks very suspicious to me, however.
Where are these observations taking place?

Are you actually claiming to have witnessed many spanking techniques and styles to the extent that you can describe the methodology used by SOME parents as opposed to others?

Are you doing some sort of spanking style research that would allow you to view a spanking objectively?

You're silly.
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Old 04-11-2003, 12:49 PM
Bricker Bricker is offline
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I wouldn't mind seeing some evidence as to how widespread this spanking problem is. The OP starts off with a blanket condemnation of all parental spankers, thinly veiled as a question. What the OP actually describes, however, is a highly specific set of actions ("0.8 seconds?") and it's unclear how accurate or widespread the practice is.
  #44  
Old 04-11-2003, 12:59 PM
tiny ham tiny ham is offline
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I simply don't know how Surreal has stayed on this board so long. His OPs are MADDENING I tell you. MADDENING
  #45  
Old 04-11-2003, 01:11 PM
Earthworm Jim Earthworm Jim is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Surreal
But since I can't see any reason for spanking a child, I have to speculate as to what the *real* reason might be.
In what way are you qualified as an authority on parent-child discipline?
  #46  
Old 04-11-2003, 01:27 PM
lieu lieu is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by jarbabyj
I simply don't know how Surreal has stayed on this board so long. His OPs are MADDENING I tell you. MADDENING
Oh, I don't know jar... I thought his "Do Black People Think White People Smell?" was a brilliant piece of scientific work.
  #47  
Old 04-11-2003, 01:44 PM
Berkut Berkut is offline
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Originally posted by Casey1505
If Joey is just sitting watching cartoons when you find his scribblings on the wall of your fancy dining room
Sorry about that, by the way.
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  #48  
Old 04-11-2003, 01:53 PM
Casey1505 Casey1505 is offline
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It happens....you learned your lesson. No Spongebob for 1 week.

It wouldn't have been so bad if we hadn't just spent the last 3 months remodelling.
  #49  
Old 04-11-2003, 03:28 PM
Mangetout Mangetout is online now
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Quote:
Originally posted by Surreal
Mangetout, children *require* bathing. They DON'T require spanking. There's a big difference.
I am of the view that corporal punishment is sometimes necessary with some children, although I have never know it conform to the absolutely absurd picture you painted in the OP.

Why did you not post this in GD?
  #50  
Old 04-11-2003, 03:52 PM
Surreal Surreal is online now
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Join Date: Mar 2002
I didn't post there because

1) I'm not interested in debating anything, or in watching others debate. There's no point in doing so, because everybody finishes with the same opinions they started with. And even if they didn't, I'm not interested in changing anyone's mind about anything anyway.

2) All that would happen is when someone sees something they don't want to believe, they ask for a cite, no matter how obvious something is. Nothing is accomplished.

"Spanking is painful."

"Cite?"

"The sky is blue."

"Cite?"

"Some adults find spanking to be a turn-on."

"Cite?"
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