American anti-Americanism: What's the cause? Will it persist? If not, then what?

Great Debates
1

The anti-Americans I have in mind are those who tend to look for the worst side of the US. E.g., consider the thread, Altogether now: 1980’s support for Saddam was wrong. That foreign policy decision is now history. The US has had dozens of foreign policy stances in the last 20 years. Many turned out to be right. Why continue to harp on this one?

Or, consider those who automatically assumed that the war in Afghanistan would go badly, due to the harsh winter and the ferocity of the Afghan fighters. Then, there were those who were believed that the war in Iraq would go badly. *Newsweek* gets the booby prize this week for giving the President, Vice President and Secretary of Defence down arrows, saying:

Now that the war has gone well, many now assert that the peace will go badly: *The US will not succeed in forming a good government in Iraq. The Iraq war will inflame the world against us. Terrorism will skyrocket. * What’s striking is that many who hold these views actually seem to take pleasure in them.

It seems unnatural to oppose one’s own country. Most of us expect French people to support France and think well of it. We expect Israelis to support Israel, etc. Yet, there are a great many anti-American Americans. The anti-American position is respectable. Michael Moore won an Academy Award. The New York Times often takes anti-American positions, as do many university professors.

1. Why is anti-Americanism so popular here in America? America certainly has flaws, but no more so than other countries. My impression is that many AAAs enjoy the feeling of moral superiority.

2. Will anti-Americanism will remain popular. I think not. E.g., a number of universities have growing pro-war movements among the students. I think there will be a permanent reduction in anti-Americanism, although I hope it never goes away. It’s healthy to have some dissent IMHO.

3. If anti-Americanism becomes less popular, how will that impact society? I think the Democratic Party will be hurt, because they tend to be associated with the AAAs. I think universities may change their political philosophies, but not quickly. The group in power selects new members, so it’s hard to change it. I think Hollywood is already becoming more open to a conservative POV and that this trend will continue.

2

I don’t think anti-Americanism is as popular as you say it is. Judging by those damn flags on so many people’s cars, I’d say patiotism is extremely popular; more popular than anti-Americanism.

3

Well, this isn’t anti-Americanism…it’s anti-administration, and maybe anti-Republican. It’s standard…Democrats are going to criticize Republican actions and Republicans are going to criticize Democratic actions. This is no more anti-American than the Republicans were when they criticized Clinton for Haiti, Somalia and Bosnia

4

Of course anti-Republican is a worlds away from anti-American. This is a bipartisan country.

You already knew that though.

5

I fail to see any anti-Americanism in your examples. Peace is patriotic.

6

This is Pro-americanism. A society that cannot criticize its mistakes and learn from them will stagnate and die.

7

It’s just a counter to the constant praise as being factually and unarguably the best country that has ever existed; a shining beacon that all the world should strive to imitate. When you set yourself on a pedastal that high, you’re just begging to be ripped down.

8

So that we don’t do it again?

9

It makes me so sick to have certain people appropriate patriotism and call those who disagree with them anti-American. It is sickening and I would even say treasonous. I can think of few things more anti-American that to deny the right of others to their beliefs and to deny them their “Americaness” on that account. It brings memories of Senator McCarthy and his UnAmerican Activities. As Mark Twain said a century ago about the jingoistic phrase “my country right or wrong” which was common then:

10

It’s very simple, people:

Saddam = bad because his people weren’t free to criticize and/or replace their current administration.

Americans = bad when they criticize and/or express a desire to replace their current administration.

Got it?

11

I agree up to a point. However, it’s one thing to criticize one’s mistakes; it’s another to wallow in them. As TheMemeWarrior says, too little criticism is a problem, but so is too much criticism. It can cause a nation to doubt its abilities, and lead it to avoid difficult challenges.

I agree with Captain Amazing to a degree that we are seeing “anti-Republicanism.” But, there’s more to it. Many Americans believed that the US lacked the wisdom or the moral authority or the power to attack Iraq. Even when results have exceeded all expectations, that’s still a popular POV.

I agree with JuanitaTech that patiotism is currently more popular than anti-Americanism. As I see it, patriotism is normal, especially during a war. I think anti-Americanism is a fad that grew out of the Vietnamese War, but which has now run its course.

BTW, JuanitaTech may have provided an example of anti_Americanism when she referred to “those damn flags.” :wink:

sailor, I take your point. I don’t mean to use “anti-Americanism” as a pejorative. It’s the descriptive word for the tendency to think badly of America.

pizzabrat, don’t many countries set themselves on a pedestal? I see that as normal human psychology.

12

If by “anti-Americanism” you’re referring to the [snort] 'Homeland Security" Act or the [double snort] “Patriots” Act, I would agree that this administration is alarmingly unAmerican. Thank God for patriotic dissent.

13

I would say that mindless flag waving is about as empty a gesture of “Americanism” as you’re ever going to find.

14

“I don’t mean to use “anti-Americanism” as a pejorative. It’s the descriptive word for the tendency to think badly of America.”

Well defined in that way, it is either pejorative or nonsenical. The “tendency to think badly of America,” if it’s reflexive and unthinking, is pejorative as is any other prejudicial position. But if what you mean by this “tendency” is a readiness to make reasonablecriticisms of one’s elected officials and their policies, then it is not in the least anti-American, and it is nonsensical to suggest otherwise. Unless, of course, you define “Americanism” as mindless conformity and self-censorship.

15

rephrases his post to be more GD-ish

What, precisely, leads you to infer that American nationalism is actually less than nationalism in a country such as Israel, wherein half the population is effectively disenfranchised?

16

Hah. A quick quiz:

Which demonstrates more respect for the flag:

  1. Plastering its image on bumper stickers, t-shirts, coffee mugs, and pretty much everything else that stops moving long enough to get a flag stamped on it; or

  2. Believing that perhaps the flag is important enough a symbol to be left as a flag rather than to be used as a quick and easy expression of patriotic fervor and/or a cheap advertising gimmick?

17

Well, but saying that attacking Iraq is foolish, or immoral, or outside our power to successfully do so, regardless of what you might consider as the merits of those arguments, isn’t anti-American. It’s just a disagreement with a single policy decision.

For another example, there are a lot of people who were opposed to America’s welfare system, some saying it was foolish, others that it was immoral, and still others that we couldn’t afford to do it. It didn’t mean they were anti-American…just that they thought something was wrong.

18

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by december *
sailor, I take your point. I don’t mean to use “anti-Americanism” as a pejorative. It’s the descriptive word for the tendency to think badly of America.

[QUOTE]
Show me Americans who are saying that America and the values it represents (freedom, democracy, etc) are evil. I do not think you will find many. In fact, those who want to restrict those freedoms and rights and values are mostly on your side and the word “antiAmerican” would most aptly be applied to you and those who think like you. The people you are trying to paint as “Anti-Americans” are mostly people who disagree with the policies of this administration which is not only their right but their duty if that is the way they feel.

>> too much criticism. It can cause a nation to doubt its abilities

Well, I guess if your son is making plans to mug an old lady you wouldnt want to discourage him lest he “doubt his abilities”.

Did you refrain from criticizing president Clinton because “he might doubt his abilities”? Was that unAmerican?

19

Fair point. I did mean to criticize the reflexiveness of anti-Americanism. But, I did not mean to imply that it’s treasonous or disloyal or evil.

Right. I am using the word for those who I believe go overboard in thinking badly of America.

jr8, my answer is #1. If that’s not clear to you, try this question:

*Which demonstrates more respect for the civil rights movement:

  1. Having an national holiday to celebrate Martin Luther King, or

  2. Believing that civil rights is too important to be used as a symbolic holiday? *

Obviously, the answer is #1.

Diogenes the Cynic, why do you assume that flag waving is “mindless”?

On preview, I see sailor compared America’s foreign policy to “mugging an old lady.” Anyone still doubt that there are anti-American Americans?

20

I think there is definitely a strain of anti-Americanism that is rooted in the anti-establishment ethos of the 60s. For some people it might even be subconscious. They just grew up in an environment where: Big = bad. Capitalism = bad. Military = bad. The problem is that there is such a continuum from mindless boosterism, to geniune patriotic pride, to thoughtful dissent, to anti-Americanism. It’s really very hard to draw the line. Throw into that mix the partisianship that both sides display, and who can really tell which is which?

So why even bother?

It’s probably best to just leave the whole “anti-American” epithet out of the discussion and just take people at their word. Those who constantly harp on the US with NEVER a good thing to say pretty much expose themselves, just as those who will never utter a critical word against the gov’t (as long as their guys are in power at the time) do the same.