Question - Michigan State Law (re: meeting minutes)

[look!ninjas]

I was hired several months ago to videotape the meetings of a particularly argumentative township near where I live. One frequent bone of contention lately has been the form that the minutes take. The clerk had been including some commentary (i.e. - Trustee X forgot what she was talking about. Audience member Y agreed that the clerk and treasurer are super-duper) in the minutes, as well as having the standard " this motion passed, this motion was denied" information. However, as she was selecting commentary (instead of inserting verbatim all that was said), there was some question that the minutes could be coming out biased. The newly hired township attorney stated in a recent meeting that this was not legal - under Michigan state law, the minutes either had to be a verbatim transcript of all that was said or a rote recitation of motions passed and denied. Since then, a group of citizens have been protesting this, saying that the law says the clerk can write whatever she pleases in the minutes. Although the board voted to strike the commentary from the minutes, the issue is still somewhat up in the air, as the clerk is flat-out refusing to comply. It's not my township, but after a few months of wrangling, I want an answer, one I can trust (and who wouldn't trust a Doper?) Can anyone tell me who is right in this situation? Can the clerk pick and choose comments as she likes to include in the official minutes? Or is this a no-no?

[t-bonham@scc.net]

I think that a Clerk is only required to take minutes of meetings, and they have to at least include motions & votes. Including other info is neither required nor prohibited by law, I'd guess.

But if this ever came into Court, the Judge would wisely stay out of it, and rule that the only real judge of whether the Clerk is doing her job properly is the voters of the township. They can vote her out if they don't like the way she's doing the job.

And the Township Board is similarly in charge of what goes into their official minutes. Each meeting probably starts with the reading of the minutes from the last meeting, and any corrections before approving them. So each meeting the Board can continue to strike out all the Clerks' commentary before approving the minutes. And the voters will have an opportunity at the next election to indicate their approval or disapproval of this.

P.S. If I was a voter, I might ask why either of the Board or the Clerk are wasting time on this -- aren't there any serious Town matters to be dealt with?

But if it's a real small town, maybe not -- possibly this battling at town meetings is the cheapest entertainment around the area!

[Bricker]

Originally posted by t-bonham@scc.net
But if this ever came into Court, the Judge would wisely stay out of it, and rule that the only real judge of whether the Clerk is doing her job properly is the voters of the township. They can vote her out if they don't like the way she's doing the job.

Really? The judge should rule this way even if there is a specific law that directs the clerk to act in a specific way?

Fascinating.

- Rick

[Cliffy]

No one who knows what they're talking about is going to answer this question, look!. It appears to be something for which there is a simple factual answer which you can look up in the Michigan State Code. While lawyers on message boards are often happy to explain broad legal concepts so laypersons can have an understanding of the laws of the society in which they live, we don't give specific answers to narrow questions -- that's what lawyers do for their clients. You're not paying me, and my malpractice insurance wouldn't cover it, so no dice.

While it may well be an interesting policy question worth debating as to whether the clerk should be permitted to insert editorial commentary or whether a judge would indeed "wisely stay out of it," this isn't the right forum for that. Your question as asked probably does have a factual answer, but you're not going to find that here -- you need to either consult your own attorney or live with the uncertainty. Regardless, you might find the following link helpful:

http://michiganlegislature.org/mileg...e=chapterIndex

--Cliffy, Esq.

P.S. t-bonham, in the future please refrain from attempting to answer legal questions without knowledge. While you could end up causing problems for someone who doesn't realize that you are unqualified, you can also open yourself up to a claim that you are practicing law without a license, which in most jurisdictions is a felony.

[look!ninjas]

I was asking out of pure curiosity, so I wouldn't worry about any felony charges, t-bonham. Thanks for the link, Cliffy.

[mapsmith]

It seems that the simplest form for the minutes to take would be to approve the minutes as recorded on Video. In other words your video would become the meeting minutes. Since most meetings that I have attended usually start with an "approval of the minutes". If the video is recognized as the most accurate minutes, you have a job for quite a while.

[Finite Elephant]

Originally posted by mapsmith
It seems that the simplest form for the minutes to take would be to approve the minutes as recorded on Video. In other words your video would become the meeting minutes. Since most meetings that I have attended usually start with an "approval of the minutes". If the video is recognized as the most accurate minutes, you have a job for quite a while.

IANAL, but I've served on a board in Illinois. The big problem with videotaping meetings lies in the record retention requirements. In Illinos, state laws require that a board retain minutes of their meetings pretty much forever, and that these minutes be made available to the public. If your full board meets once a month and has three or four committees that also meet once a month, after a decade or so, you've got a warehouse of videotape.

Paper minutes are readily converted to microfilm or microfiche (a more stable medium than magnetic tape) and more compactly stored.

[sailor]

Originally posted by Cliffy
P.S. t-bonham, in the future please refrain from attempting to answer legal questions without knowledge.

I would say no one should answer *any* questions without proper knowledge[/quote] While you could end up causing problems for someone who doesn't realize that you are unqualified, you can also open yourself up to a claim that you are practicing law without a license, which in most jurisdictions is a felony. [/quote] I have heard this said many times and I very seriously doubt it. You cannot pass yourself off as a lawyer and charge for legal advice but if I give you some advice here for nothing I doubt you would have any grounds to sue me.

[sailor]

Originally posted by Cliffy
P.S. t-bonham, in the future please refrain from attempting to answer legal questions without knowledge.

I would say no one should answer *any* questions without proper knowledge

While you could end up causing problems for someone who doesn't realize that you are unqualified, you can also open yourself up to a claim that you are practicing law without a license, which in most jurisdictions is a felony.

I have heard this said many times and I very seriously doubt it. You cannot pass yourself off as a lawyer and charge for legal advice but if I give you some advice here for nothing I doubt you would have any grounds to sue me.

[look!ninjas]

Originally posted by mapsmith
It seems that the simplest form for the minutes to take would be to approve the minutes as recorded on Video. In other words your video would become the meeting minutes. Since most meetings that I have attended usually start with an "approval of the minutes". If the video is recognized as the most accurate minutes, you have a job for quite a while.

The problem is, I wasn't hired by the board. "A Private Citizen Who Wishes to Remain Anonymous" hired a local videographer, who from there hired me. And while there is an audiotape record of the meeting (for the clerk to use in making up the minutes) and while that was recently included as part of the minutes, the current record retention schedule only calls for that to be preserved for a year.

On the plus side, I learn more about township politics every time I go to a meeting there.