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  #1  
Old 05-26-2003, 11:23 PM
syncrolecyne syncrolecyne is offline
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What genre of music is Frank Sinatra and Tony Bennett...?

...and other such singers? (Sammy Davis Jr., Mel Tormé, Nat King Cole, Harry Connick Jr.).

I always thought they would be considered Jazz singers, yet I don't think they fit the purists' definition of Jazz (they generally don't improvise, scat sing, and so on), maybe "pop" - but that can include just about anything...or "standards" - but that is more a reference to certain songs.


(I do know Nat King Cole was a respected Jazz pianist, but is mainly known now for his 'pop' vocals)


My mom suggested "lounge music", but I associate that name more with bad teal blue suits and clattering hotel bars. I suppose that would fall under that category though.

Does anyone have a better name than "Jazzy Pop Standard Singing"?
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  #2  
Old 05-26-2003, 11:31 PM
Major Kong Major Kong is offline
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Lounge.
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  #3  
Old 05-26-2003, 11:32 PM
racinchikki racinchikki is offline
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Yeah, I think Lounge is the accepted name of the genre.
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Old 05-27-2003, 12:02 AM
doctordoowop doctordoowop is offline
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Except for some scat, which is jazz, (Torme) those mentioned, particularly Sinatra & Bennett ,are the epitome of pop. Having produced a few songs & been a college DJ, I have a good handle on music, & if these two NYC area paisons aren't pop, then Elvis was a rapper.
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  #5  
Old 05-27-2003, 02:29 AM
mouthbreather mouthbreather is offline
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Crooners.
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  #6  
Old 05-27-2003, 07:22 AM
RealityChuck RealityChuck is online now
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American popular music. "Pop" is OK, too.
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  #7  
Old 05-27-2003, 07:52 AM
UrbanChic UrbanChic is offline
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Some of Sinatra's works fit nicely into Big Band and Swing, too.
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  #8  
Old 05-27-2003, 08:03 AM
Justin_Bailey Justin_Bailey is offline
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Most of my local record stores keep them under "Easy Listening" and the library I work at keeps them under "Pop" so take your pick.
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  #9  
Old 05-27-2003, 08:43 AM
Pábitel Pábitel is offline
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The name I have seen given to this style in places like live365.com is "Standards"
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  #10  
Old 05-27-2003, 09:13 AM
archmichael archmichael is offline
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nostalgia
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  #11  
Old 05-27-2003, 09:39 AM
plnnr plnnr is offline
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Sinatra was a "crooner" in his first incarnation. "Crooning" was originally made popular by Bing Crosby and was a musical style wherein the lyrics were sung in a more conversational phrasing. It went out of style and Sinatra changed his style as well. Tony Bennett has always created Louis Armstrong as being his major vocal influence, and he's never been seen as a "crooner."

They were "pop" singers, in that the songs in their repertoire were generally popular standards, even though Bennett had taken to singing a wider range of songs. His recent work with KD Lang is pretty good stuff. A few years ago he played at Harbor Center in Portsmouth and I had the good fortune to see him. Great voice and stage prescence. He's still got it. I also spoke to the City Manger after the show and he told me that the day of the perfromance, Bennett had come down to the hotel dining room for lunch and learned that a woman sitting at a nearby table was celebrating a birthday. When her dessert was delivered he went over and sang "Happy Birthday" to her. She, and her lady guests, melted (as you might expect). What a generous thing to do.
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  #12  
Old 05-27-2003, 10:19 AM
lissener lissener is offline
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Wow. It's interesting to see how out of the mainstream this stuff has become, if no one knows what it's called.

It's Jazz vocals, pure and simple.

NEVER call it lounge--never never never. Lounge singing is what Bill Murray parodied on the old SNL--and ONLY that. Lounge singing is BY DEFINITION bottom of the barrel, jazz WANNABEs, stuck in suburban Hotel LOUNGES singing "jazzy" versions of "Feelings."

Sinatra and Bennett--and Fitzgerald and Carter and Armstrong and Dearie--and today's youngsters, e.g. Diana Krall and Holly Cole and Patricia Barber--are all Jazz singers, and they would roll over in their graves (or put you in yours) if they ever heard you call them anything else.
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  #13  
Old 05-27-2003, 11:00 AM
Northern Piper Northern Piper is online now
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I'ts cool, baby. That's all you need to know.
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  #14  
Old 05-27-2003, 11:43 AM
Breezy Breezy is offline
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Everywhere I've purchased Frank Sinatra CD's they have been under the "Easy Listening" section.

I think "Standards" is a better way of saying it though.
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  #15  
Old 05-27-2003, 12:25 PM
lissener lissener is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Breezy
Everywhere I've purchased Frank Sinatra CD's they have been under the "Easy Listening" section.

I think "Standards" is a better way of saying it though.
You're answering the wrong question, Breezy. The question to which your answer is the correct one is: "How do most record store misfile Sinatra and Bennett?"

The correct answer to the OP is, as I said, jazz.
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  #16  
Old 05-27-2003, 01:29 PM
Ukulele Ike Ukulele Ike is offline
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Well, I dunno...Torme is definitely jazz. Sinatra is a toss-up. The early recordings with Tommy Dorsey's band were obviously jazz. The famous 1950's Columbia recordings, though....I dunno. I hesitate to call Nelson Riddle's or Billy May's arrangements jazz. Then again, on the live early '60s recordings from Australia and Paris he's backed by Red Norvo and a hot jazz combo. And there are those famous albums with Count Basie, and with Duke Ellington...

I solved this problem around my house by creating a separate filing system for vocals, right after jazz. So Torme and Sinatra live there, along with stone jazzers Sarah Vaughan and Joe Williams, plus folks like Rudy Vallee, Dinah Washington, Ute Lemper, Slim Gaillard, Jerry Butler, Abbey Lincoln, Edith Piaf, the Mills Brothers, Paul Robeson, the Ink Spots, Alberta Hunter, Ernie Kovacs, Helen Merrill, the Comedian Harmonists, and John McCormack.

Sure it's a weird group, but wouldn't you like to have 'em all over to your house for a party?
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  #17  
Old 05-27-2003, 01:55 PM
lissener lissener is offline
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This is the silliest kind of hairsplitting.

Frank Sinatra was the second or third best jazz singer of all time. Can ever squeak he ever uttered by classified as pure jazz? Maybe not. That's hardly a reason to quibble over whether Frank Sinatra was a jazz singer. There's simply no room for quibbling: the question has a definitive answer.

Just because, for example, Kenny G is a bad jazz saxophonist doesn't mean he's not a jazz saxophonists; just because you can insert qualifiers in a description of some of Sinatra's less "pure" stuff doesn't change the fact of who and what he was.
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  #18  
Old 05-28-2003, 02:20 AM
doctordoowop doctordoowop is offline
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Frank did do one incest number. A love tune w/ daughter Nancy , "Somethin' Stupid," in 1967. The incest angle must have turned him off, tho' . It's the only single that made it to #one, w/o a follow up. (Assuming nobody died). Father & daughter never did another record.
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  #19  
Old 05-28-2003, 06:33 AM
nebco9 nebco9 is offline
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I usually go to ALL MUSIC GUIDE for my musical questions like this. According to them the GENRE is VOCAL but the STYLE is listed as VOCAL JAZZ and TRADITIONAL POP.
You can check all of them
out at:

ALLMUSIC.COM
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  #20  
Old 05-28-2003, 07:01 AM
YoudNeverGuess YoudNeverGuess is offline
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Why not just make it easy - when you refer to these guys as Crooners everyone knows what you're talking about.
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  #21  
Old 05-29-2003, 11:50 PM
Zoe Zoe is offline
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They were just too versatile to be easily pigeon-holed. They don't fit the connotation of "crooners" and yet in Sinatra's early years, he did do a lot of crooning as did Torme. Many of the songs they sang are considered standards. Some are jazz standards.

Gordon Jenkins backed up both Sinatra and Cole and I can't think of much that Jenkins did that would be considered jazz.

Since they were multi-faceted and since pop can be jazz, why not just continue to call the genre "standard pop"? Just don't tell me that The Christmas Song is jazz. And don't try to get away with saying that Sinatra crooned "I've Got You Under My Skin."

Give me back my CD's...I'm going home.
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  #22  
Old 05-30-2003, 02:52 PM
Guinastasia Guinastasia is online now
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Quote:
Originally posted by doctordoowop
Frank did do one incest number. A love tune w/ daughter Nancy , "Somethin' Stupid," in 1967. The incest angle must have turned him off, tho' . It's the only single that made it to #one, w/o a follow up. (Assuming nobody died). Father & daughter never did another record.
I don't see how that's "incestuous". After all, Natalie Cole did a few songs of father's, including some of his recorded vocals to make it sound like a duet-she won a Grammy for her version of "Unforgetable", IIRC.
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  #23  
Old 05-30-2003, 03:29 PM
lissener lissener is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Guinastasia
I don't see how that's "incestuous". After all, Natalie Cole did a few songs of father's, including some of his recorded vocals to make it sound like a duet-she won a Grammy for her version of "Unforgetable", IIRC.
Natalie Cole's records weren't just incestuous, they were necrophiliac. Shudder.
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