The Straight Dope

Go Back   Straight Dope Message Board > Main > General Questions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-23-2003, 01:56 PM
Rattlehead02 Rattlehead02 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Is it ever ok to use "it's" in place of "its"?

According to http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=it%27s :

Quote:
it's

Its \Its\ Possessive form of the pronoun it. See It.
What's the deal? Am I missing something here?

Thanks!

P.S. I tried doing a search on this subject, but as you can imagine, I had no luck.
Reply With Quote
Advertisements  
  #2  
Old 06-23-2003, 02:00 PM
Spoke Spoke is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
It's is used as the contraction of "it is".
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-23-2003, 02:01 PM
Spoke Spoke is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
D'oh! I see what you're asking.

I think your source is wrong.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-23-2003, 02:01 PM
Padeye Padeye is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Phoenix, AZ, US
Posts: 7,672
No, the reason it's a bit non-intuitive is because "it's" is the contraction of "it is." That's why the posessive form of "it" has no apostrophe, so they don't get confused.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-23-2003, 02:02 PM
CookingWithGas CookingWithGas is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Tysons Corner VA
Posts: 9,068
The answer to your question is "no". Not sure what's confusing you, though.

"Its" is possessive. "The dog wagged its tail." This is different than any other possessive use of the "s" ending in English AFAIK, in that it does not use an apostrophe. Dunno why. "The cat scratched the dog's tail" is the usual way to write a possessive.

"It's" is a contraction for "it is". "I hope it's going to be sunny today."

The uses are not interchangeable.
__________________
Making the world a better place one fret at a time.
| | |·| |·| |·| |·| | |:| | |·| |·|
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-23-2003, 02:06 PM
Rattlehead02 Rattlehead02 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Oh, I'm aware of the difference between "its" and "it's"...That's why I'm confused about that link.

It shows a definition of "it's" as the possessive of "it".

I'm just wondering if maybe I misread the site or something.

Guess I shoulda clarified.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-23-2003, 02:07 PM
CookingWithGas CookingWithGas is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Tysons Corner VA
Posts: 9,068
Oh, sorry, now I see--yes, I think the source is mistaken or being excessively descriptive, I have never seen this waffling from an authoritative source.

Some sources are prescriptive, meaning they presume to know what's right and tell you so with authority. Some are descriptive, meaning that they just document how people actually talk without drawing a judgement about correctness.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-23-2003, 02:07 PM
Padeye Padeye is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Phoenix, AZ, US
Posts: 7,672
Anyway, I think the online cite is just plain wrong. My 1981 Webster's on my desk has the definitions everyone has been describing.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-23-2003, 02:10 PM
CookingWithGas CookingWithGas is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Tysons Corner VA
Posts: 9,068
OK, the same source says this:

its ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ts)
adj. The possessive form of it.
Used as a modifier before a noun: The airline canceled its early flight to New York.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Alteration of it's : it + -'s.]
Usage Note: Its is the possessive form of the pronoun it and is correctly written without an apostrophe. It should not be confused with the contraction it's (for it is or it has), which should always have an apostrophe.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-23-2003, 02:11 PM
kunilou kunilou is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 15,908
Read the entire definition

[Alteration of it's : it + -'s.]
Usage Note: Its is the possessive form of the pronoun it and is correctly written without an apostrophe. It should not be confused with the contraction it's (for it is or it has), which should always have an apostrophe.

The reference is simply that its = it's exists, not that it is a correct usage. Like the word "ain't."
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-23-2003, 02:18 PM
Scarlett67 Scarlett67 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: The Middle of Nowhere, WI
Posts: 10,578
Quote:
Originally posted by Padeye
No, the reason it's a bit non-intuitive is because "it's" is the contraction of "it is." That's why the posessive form of "it" has no apostrophe, so they don't get confused.
That's not quite correct. The possessive "its" has no apostrophe because it belongs to the class of possessive pronouns:

mine
yours
his
hers
its
ours
theirs
whose

. . . none of which takes an apostrophe.

Remember your possessive pronouns! They are a special group all their own, with different rules from the possessives of common nouns.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-23-2003, 02:32 PM
zut zut is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 3,569
The confusion arises from, I assume, either a misdirected link or an oddity in the search function at dictionary.com. Note that the entry for "its" is identical to the entry for "it's". The former is the correct page.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-23-2003, 02:48 PM
Gary T Gary T is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: KCMO
Posts: 8,943
Note that "it's" can be "it is" or "it has" (e.g., it's been a good day).

Scarlett67 makes a very important point. Pronouns are a special case, and never use an apostrophe for the possessive. If you don't normally write "hi's," her's," "our's," "your's," or "their's," there's no reason to think you should write "it's" for the possessive of "it." (If you do normally write those forms, you have a bigger problem.) Of course, the fact that the word "it's" does exist (where those others I listed do not) can lead to confusion. Think carefully about whether you're saying "it is," "it has," or "belonging to it" to help you choose the correct word.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-23-2003, 02:56 PM
DarrenS DarrenS is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Quote:
Originally posted by Scarlett67
Remember your possessive pronouns! They are a special group all their own, with different rules from the possessives of common nouns.
Except "one's"
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-23-2003, 03:23 PM
xash xash is offline
Ogministrator
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 4,133
I think zut nailed it. Note how the it's in the "it's" search result page is replaced by the "its" in the "its" search result page, keeping the definition the same.

Maybe the heading it's on the search page for the definition in question is somehow [incorrectly] dynamically created from the search term "it's" itself.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06-23-2003, 07:40 PM
moriah moriah is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: NJ, USA ♂
Posts: 3,871
I checked a few of the online Websters dictionaries, and they do not have an entry for it's.

So, the search engine gave back the definition for its instead.

Awl is write with the whirled.

Peas.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06-23-2003, 07:48 PM
moriah moriah is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: NJ, USA ♂
Posts: 3,871
I checked a few of the online Websters dictionaries, and they do not have an entry for it's.

So, the search engine gave back the definition for its instead.

Awl is write with the whirled.

Peas.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-23-2003, 10:02 PM
Hari Seldon Hari Seldon is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Next we will see hi's. Anyway, it's only a question of orthography, not actual speech.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 06-23-2003, 10:16 PM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Western New York
Posts: 48,450
The only time "it's" is correctly used as a possessive is when it is used as a direct noun or proper noun rather than a pronoun, as in: "Gomez and Morticia enjoyed Cousin It's visit." or "It's place in the dictionary comes between issue and item."
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 06-24-2003, 01:26 AM
Moo the Magic Cow Moo the Magic Cow is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Quote:
At the risk of giving aid and comfort to the "ungrammarians" among us, however, I must note that the difference between "it's" and "its" was not always so definite. Until the 19th century, in fact, "it's" was usually considered the possessive of "it" -- in the Fall, a tree shed "it's" leaves. The usual contraction of "it is" was "'tis." Only when "'tis" came to be regarded as an archaic form in the 19th century did the use of "it's" as a contraction of "it is" push out the use of "it's" as a possessive.
http://www.word-detective.com/back-d.html#its
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@chicagoreader.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Publishers - interested in subscribing to the Straight Dope?
Write to: sdsubscriptions@chicagoreader.com.

Copyright © 2013 Sun-Times Media, LLC.