What do you call "African Americans" in other countries?

[tlt1]

I've been wondering, what is the correct term for blacks in say Canada, Australia, and the UK? African American wouldn't be right. Can you just call them "African"? That would not be politically correct in the US would it? Also, Would a black guy from someplace else living in America, for say a few months be upset if someone called him an African American? I wouldn't like it if I moved to Japan for a while and I was know as Euro-Japanese or something of the sort. Just curious.

[jjimm]

In the UK "black" and "Afro-Caribbean" are both considered OK.

As to your second question, my sister is English Afro-Caribbean living in the US, and many people call her "African American". It pisses her off.

[pulykamell]

It's not politically incorrect to call a black person a "black" in the US. It's done all the time in newspapers. "African-American" is more a cultural term, used in a way such as "Irish-American" or "Polish-American" might be used. Some people have misunderstood the point of political correctness and have gone to insane lengths that they use "African-American" in contexts where it's not necessary, or totally incorrect. You wouldn't call a black guy from Britain an "African-American," that's for sure. Neither would you Jamaicans or Haitians or anything like that.

[UnwrittenNocturne]

We hear in no apparent order:

Black
Blackfella
Aboriginal

[Jjinn]

Oddly, the Bush advisors and cabinet members often refer to the black people living in Africa as African Americans, like that was just the PC word for black. But then they also say nukaler.

[Omnipresent]

Proving once again that the description is inaccurate and probably shouldn't be used at all.

Don't know of anyone complaining about being described as white.

[GaryM]

Is it correct to call a "white" person who's ancestors hail from South Africa or Zimbobwe an "African Anerican".? Assuming of course that their citizenship is american. U.S. that is.

Anyone, regardless of skin shade, who's ancestors came from the African continent is African, right?

So if the first humans originated on that continent, we're all "african".

[Dogface]

Originally posted by pulykamell
It's not politically incorrect to call a black person a "black" in the US. It's done all the time in newspapers. "African-American" is more a cultural term, used in a way such as "Irish-American" or "Polish-American" might be used.

But shouldn't it be used like "European-American"? After all, are people with Libyan or Egyptian parents "African-American"? Are folks living in the Berber communities in the USA "African-American".

[emmaliminal]

In the textbooks my company produces, we always use "African American" (never with a hyphen and never with "Afro") on first mention of a black American, when it comes up, but allow "black" (never capitalized) on subsequent uses or where it appears in an original source we've got permission to use.

But it is occasionally a problem when we talk about black Canadians or Brits, or black Carribean Americans etc.... so we avoid using a descriptive adjective to talk about them, and rely on context (like a discussion of the person's ancestors) to provide the info that they're black if it's important to the piece in any way. In the one instance I worked on that just couldn't avoid it (I think it was a piece about Jamaica Kincaid, but I'm not sure) we just threw up our hands and said "black" on first mention.

Our standards for things like this are shaped by the demands of the market, i.e., school boards, teachers, etc. Ain't none such a thing as "correct" term. It fluctuates all the time. This policy dates from the early 90s and will probably change again soon. We refer to a wide variety of sources to keep up with trends.

[emmaliminal]

Originally posted by GaryM
Is it correct to call a "white" person who's ancestors hail from South Africa or Zimbobwe an "African Anerican".? Assuming of course that their citizenship is american. U.S. that is.

Anyone, regardless of skin shade, who's ancestors came from the African continent is African, right?

So if the first humans originated on that continent, we're all "african".

I follow your logic, but the only reason we use the terms at all is to be descriptive. A term that includes everyone alive loses descriptive power and becomes useless. So "correct" isn't really the point here, so much as "usefully descriptive without being needlessly offensive".

[FatBaldGuy]

Sometimes politically correct spelling/grammar checkers can get carried away with this. I once read a newspaper article that stated XYZ Company would be operating this year with their budget in the African American.

[chattywine]

In Italy - African Americans are referred to as American (americano) or to specify 'the black one' (quello nero). Black and brown people - person of color (persone di colore/la ragazza di colore etc.) which isn't used in the derrogative as 'colored' once was or simply African/Chinese what have you. FWIW I've asked a few black Americans stationed here (Sigonella) what the non-offensive term or accepted term is and all have said 'black' works for them.

[Mdm. President]

I think there should be a movement, something official…like a vote, where we just call people with visually more Negroid than Caucasian or Mongoloid Chocolate! The term black, to some, is derogatory and not very descriptive since most aren’t truly that dark. And when 'white' folk start being offended at that equally wrong term we can be called Cream! How perfect?! Who thinks negative thoughts when hearing the terms Chocolate and Cream? And there are an infinite number of shades of each sooo.... well, I just think I’m a damn genus.

[Yeah]

I think that in most of Africa they are called Americans.

[FisherQueen]

The AP Style Guide prefers 'black' over 'African American.' I say that 'African American' will never fully become the preferred term, for reasons that have nothing to do with politics and everything to do with syllable count.

[Zsofia]

There's a lovely essay somewhere I can't find about what a perfect, attractive, descriptive word "colored" is, and what a shame that negative historical usage is such that we can't use it anymore.

Er, now that I think about it, it might have been a bit in a Spider Robinson book. I still agree, though - if viewed historically neutrally, it's a much better, nicer word than "black".

[MikeG]

Tourists

[everton]

This question has been asked before. Some threads have pointed out some ridiculously inappropriate uses of the term. Examples...

"African-American" in other countries
What is the Politically Correct Way to Refer to Blacks in Other Countries?
The term "African American", including this...

Originally posted by Eve
A PBS special on vaudeville once referred to Bert Williams as "the first African-American to star in a Broadway show with whites." Bert Williams was born in the British Virgin Islands . . .

and "African Americans", including this...

Originally posted by Mullinator
Slightly related to the topic, the other day, my college (well, former, I am now an alumni) newspaper referred to Nelson Mandela as African-American. Either they have no clue about where he lives, or they just assume all black people want to fit into that niche.

[MonkeyMensch]

Icí? Les americains de l'Afrique.

[bagkitty]

Given the original phrasing (if not intent) of the OP : I think of them as Yankees... would usually refer to them as Yankees, although if speaking to them directly, it is usually more polite to call them sir or madam (as appropriate) until learning their names.

When looking at the intent of the OP... I would refer to them as Canadians...

Oh, and by and large, black would be the preferred term if trying to identify which visible minority someone is... (the visible majority being pasty).

[elmwood]

Originally posted by GaryM
Is it correct to call a "white" person who's ancestors hail from South Africa or Zimbobwe an "African Anerican".? Assuming of course that their citizenship is american. U.S. that is..

I've seen it spelled out on applications - "African-American" meaning "black, with ancestry hailing from Africa or Papua New Guinea, excluding those of Arab and Asian Indian decent, and whites from South Africa, Namibia, and Zimbabwe/Rhodesia." The description also went on to exclude those of European decent hailing from African colonial posessions, and Spaniards with roots in Ceuta and Melilla ... but hey, then you're Hispanic! If your father is Jan Boerwors, and he hailed from one of Jo'burg's northern suburbs, you ain't African American.

[handy]

"Is it correct to call a "white" person who's ancestors hail from South Africa or Zimbobwe an "African Anerican"."

But wouldn't a white person in Africa be called an 'American-African'?

[Bippy the Beardless]

If your family and you were born in Egypt with light colored skin, but now you live and work in America what can you call yourself?
Egyptian American, American, Egyptian, African American ...

I'll guess I will be a limeyank if the Green card ever gets processed.

[astro]

Noirmensch

[Johnny L.A.]

Sometimes politically correct spelling/grammar checkers can get carried away with this. I once read a newspaper article that stated XYZ Company would be operating this year with their budget in the African American.

I don't have time to look it up, but I think it was the Sacramento Bee that did that. IIRC, it was done on purpose by a reporter who was trying to make a point. (i.e., it wasn't really a poor choice by a spell-checker, but an intentional act.)

I think there might have been a post on Snopes about it.

[Polycarp]

Originally posted by Zsofia
There's a lovely essay somewhere I can't find about what a perfect, attractive, descriptive word "colored" is, and what a shame that negative historical usage is such that we can't use it anymore.

Er, now that I think about it, it might have been a bit in a Spider Robinson book. I still agree, though - if viewed historically neutrally, it's a much better, nicer word than "black".

It was -- a monologue/soliloquy by the protagonist in Night of Power, a white man married to a black dancer.

BTW, to Unwritten Nocturne: Persons of sub-Saharan African descent are not the same things, ethnically/genetically, as aboriginal Australians -- about the only physical traits they share are the dark skin and, IIRC, an unusually high proportion of people having Type "B" blood.

[Guinastasia]

Aren't whites who come from Africa called Afrikaners?

[everton]

Originally posted by Guinastasia
Aren't whites who come from Africa called Afrikaners?

No, an Afrikaner is a white South African whose mother tongue is Afrikaans (i.e. predominantly, but not exclusively, of Dutch ancestry). White people from South Africa of British extraction, or white people born in other African countries are not Afrikaners.

[Johanna]

Originally posted by elmwood
I've seen it spelled out on applications - "African-American" meaning "black, with ancestry hailing from Africa or Papua New Guinea, excluding those of Arab and Asian Indian decent, and whites from South Africa, Namibia, and Zimbabwe/Rhodesia." The description also went on to exclude those of European decent hailing from African colonial posessions, and Spaniards with roots in Ceuta and Melilla ...

They left out the BERBERS. Everybody always forgets the Berbers, dammit. According to this benighted definition, the Berbers are neither fish nor fowl. One thing I can tell you is: they are indigenous to the continent of Africa, since prehistoric times.

[biqu]

Originally posted by astro
Noirmensch

In Alsace-Lorraine, maybe. That reminds me of a combinatorialist called Schützenberger. The first two syllables are pronounced as in German, the last two as in French. Apparently, a math class with a substantial number of eastern Europeans found his name hilarious.

[Johnny L.A.]

I don't have time to look it up, but I think it was the Sacramento Bee that did that. IIRC, it was done on purposeby a reporter who was trying to make a point. (i.e., it wasn't really a poor choice by a spell-checker, but an intentional act.)

I think there might have been a post on Snopes about it.

Ah. Here it is.

The Fresno Bee does not have any list of excluded terminology. And they use no program that automatically converts old phrases into new ones. The substitution of "African-American" in place of "black" was a deliberate premeditated manual replacement. After the column ran in 1990, the editorial management (knowing this) was furious, and tried to track down the journalist responsible. No one would own up. The staff assigned to the column adamantly denied any involvement.

Management then brought in a computer specialist to audit the access records. He pointed the finger at, but could not conclusively implicate, a quite different individual, who was a known practical joker! The joker was confronted by management and denied everything. In the absence of proof, the matter ended there without disciplinary action.

Since the Fresno Bee does not maintain a list of popular words to exclude from print, the substitution was definitely not a standard proofreader's change caused by the desire to pander to political fashion (as Caen and others had implied). The incident was therefore either the result of maliciousness, or a deliberate prank. It's still
funny, but the joke is on those who think the joke is on the Fresno Bee.

[doctordoowop]

Police reports now frequently use AA for black. True about Jamaicans for sure. Although obviosly their roots are in Africa, they see AA as for American blacks & call themselves Jamaicans.

[YourOldBuddy]

African Americans are called Americans (Amerikanar) where I come from.

If your talking about black ppl in general we have two main expressions.
"Svertingjar" is derigatory in nature but not many complained about it, the expression is not considered derigatory anymore.
"Negrar" is an offshot of the spanish word negro and simply states the color of the person and is not derigatory in nature but is in effect considered derigatory in English and Icelandic.

[AWB]

Question: My sister and brother-in-law were missionairies in TCNC Congo. Are my white nephews born there "American Africans"? 8-)

I've heard that the term "African American" was invented by Jesse Jackson. White Americans took to using it as PC, because JJ is regarded to some degree as an authority. But there are blacks who don't like using it 1) because it's awkward; 2) they hold JJ in contempt.

I've seen newspaper stories about racial topics (quite common in The Washington Post) where they'll use "African American" and "white" in the same paragraph. Why aren't "whites" called "European Americans"? (And since my grandparents are from Irkutsk, Russia [almost dead center of Asia], am I Asian American? European Asian American? Asian European American?)

[ElvisL1ves]

Originally posted by GaryM
[b]Is it correct to call a "white" person who's ancestors hail from South Africa or Zimbobwe an "African Anerican".?

Not really - if you know the person's ethnic origins that specifically, you'd say so in any context where you'd use an ethnic term at all. "African-American" refers more specifically to descendants of slaves, whose knowledge of their specific origins is lost and which is mixed after so many generations anyway. It's a cultural term more than a genetic one.

[Yeah]

I've seen it spelled out on applications - "African-American" meaning "black, with ancestry hailing from Africa or Papua New Guinea,...

Papua New Guinea? You've got to be kidding.

[kferr]

I overhead this on a bus in Nottingham England last week - this route was used by the drivers to get back to base:

Indian bus driver - So, you're from Jamaica?
Black bus driver - No mate, I'm from Nottingham.
IBD - Are your parents from Jamaica?
BBD - Yep.
IBD - So you're Jamaican.
BBD - No, I'm British.

[manhattan]

Does there remain a General Question here?

[Askia]

Possibly not, manhattan, although I did want to chime in.

Whether you're black, brown, yellow, white or albino, being born in Africa does not automatically make you African-American once you come to America. Which is why every African-descended immigrant, tourist, expatriate and student has every right to be pissed when they get lumped in with us.

Oddly, the Bush advisors and cabinet members often refer to the black people living in Africa as African Americans, like that was just the PC word for black. But then they also say nukaler.

Jinn. This is only an accurate description when applied to black U.S. citizens working/living abroad who have not given up U.S. citizenship.

Proving once again that the description is inaccurate and probably shouldn't be used at all.

Omnipresent. Good thing your name isn't "Omnipotent." The description is perfectly accurate when used correctly for the easily identifiable group of descendants of U.S. slaves. It honors our heritage, both lost and known, and our struggles for social equality and historical experiences, which are unique from most every other American ethnic group.

Is it correct to call a "white" person whose ancestors hail from South Africa or Zimbabwe an "African Anerican".? Assuming of course that their citizenship is U.S. American.

GaryM. Presumably, being white, their white ancestors were never enslaved, subjected to the black codes, Jim Crow, denied rights to property, equal treatment under the law -- so no.

But shouldn't it be used like "European-American"? After all, are people with Libyan or Egyptian parents "African-American"? Are folks living in the Berber communities in the USA "African-American?"

Dogface. People immediately descended from Libyan, Berber or Egyptian parents are either immigrants or first generation American-born citizens. In either case they would not be African-Americans. They do not share our cultural history.

If your family and you were born in Egypt with light colored skin, but now you live and work in America what can you call yourself? Egyptian American, American, Egyptian, African American ...

Bippy the Beardless. If you intend to return to Egypt, or remain here as an illegal alien, you're Egyptian. If you were born here, or have at least ONE U.S.-citizen parent or have become a U.S. citizen through the naturalization process, you're American. If that American-born parent is also a black descendant of slaves, you're African-American. There is no official 'Egyptian-American' designation that I'm aware.

I think there should be a movement, something official…like a vote, where we just call people with visually more Negroid than Caucasian or Mongoloid Chocolate! The term black, to some, is derogatory and not very descriptive since most aren’t truly that dark. And when 'white' folk start being offended at that equally wrong term we can be called Cream! How perfect?! Who thinks negative thoughts when hearing the terms Chocolate and Cream? And there are an infinite number of shades of each sooo.... well, I just think I’m a damn genius.

MDM.President Cute. But what if it's WHITE chocolate, hah? HAH? What then?

I've heard that the term "African American" was invented by Jesse Jackson. White Americans took to using it as PC, because JJ is regarded to some degree as an authority. But there are blacks who don't like using it 1) because it's awkward; 2) they hold JJ in contempt.

AWB. Jesse didn't invent "African-American." To be perfectly fair, he's never claimed that, although that is a misconception. It's a semantic drift from Afro-American, which was coined way back in the 19th century. I personally don't find African-American awkward, or hold Jesse Jackson in comptempt (although he has disppointed the hell out of me), but I don't speak for every Negro. Every cultural name shift describing American descendants of slaves has met with resistance for some reason or another within and outside our ethnic group. My grandmother has, in her 78-year lifetime, gone from Colored to Octaroon to Negro to Black to African-American. At some point you could conceivably say, "I'm American Chocolate Cream. Let's put it to a vote."

[Green Bean]

In the academic community (American History), the term "black" was used to describe people of negroid ancestry in general. African American tended to be used only for black Americans who had slave ancestry, as Elvis and Askia said. Therefore, African Americans were a subset of blacks. If the person was not a descendant of U.S. slaves living in the U.S., the specific ancestry was described if relevant.

I'm actually very interested in the issues regarding blacks in America who are not U.S. slave descendents. The ones that I've known have often said that they sometimes run into problems with people making assumptions about them because they assume that someone with brown skin must be culturally similar to the majority of brown-skinned people around. I'm trying to find more information about that.

Of course, the many issues of African Americans are relevant to all blacks who are here in the U.S. If a racist cop sees a brown guy in a Lexus, he assumes the car must have been stolen. He doesn't know that that brown guy moved from Nigeria to London when he was 5, grew up and was educated there, and is here on a trip to advise a U.S. law firm on a crucial international legal issue, so the law firm hooked him up with the nicest rental car they could get. So, that British-Nigerian guy gets caught up in the issues of the African American community.

Moving on to the white South African in the U.S. issue: I know many white South Africans, and none of them ever refer to themselves as Afrikaaners. As everton explains, most of the people that I know have English as their primary language, (although many of them are also fluent in Afrikaans). Also, I think they do not really want to be associated with the former ruling class that enforced Apartheid. True, many of them benefitted from the Apartheid system, but these people chose to leave the country long before Apartheid ended and move to countries with (ostensible) racial equality, like the U.S., Canada, and the UK, partially because they were opposed to Apartheid.

Originally posted by MDM. President
I think there should be a movement, something official…like a vote, where we just call people with visually more Negroid than Caucasian or Mongoloid Chocolate! The term black, to some, is derogatory and not very descriptive since most aren’t truly that dark. And when 'white' folk start being offended at that equally wrong term we can be called Cream! How perfect?! Who thinks negative thoughts when hearing the terms Chocolate and Cream? And there are an infinite number of shades of each sooo.... well, I just think I’m a damn genus.

But what would you call East Asians? Butterscotch?

[Rashak Mani]

The PC speech in Brazil is trying to get Afro-Descendent coined for blacks.

Most people dont care here and call them Preto (Black) or Negro (Negro). We might call them in a bad way Crioullo (Nigger I suppose best translation).

Overall we find the idea of calling blacks as Afro-Americans is amusing and demonstrates that they arent considered full Americans since no one calls WASPS Euro-Americans.

[JRDelirious]

Which is an interesting twist, Rashak since in Latin American countries of Spanish and French (as opposed tyo Portuguese) cultural background, "criollo/créole" is socially "higher" in category, as it refers to the descendants of Europeans.

In Puerto Rico, the term is "negro" (pron. <NEH-gro'> which means simply the proper word for "black" in Spanish -- and that is the term that is insisted on by activists in the community and by those of us who grow weary of doublespeak (BTW "negro/a" is also a term of endearment in PR slang). "Prieto" in PR is slang for black or dark brown (e.g. "café prieto", black coffee). Many people do seem to be uncomfortable with affirming that there are those of us who are black, though, maybe by association with the (US)American usage of "black", maybe because it violates our basic "cultural myth" that we are a seamless racial blend.

The historic euphemisms here are "moreno" and "trigueño", and they are still used but they are recognized as euphemisms. In any case, they refer originally to someone who is "dark" in the Mediterranean sense, as opposed to in the Sub-Saharan sense ("moreno" meaning someone with moorish traits, "trigueño" someone with tanned skin like golden wheat[trigo]) so they could be used for a whole range of people. "De Color" [literally, "colored"] was used a lot when I was younger but seems to have died off.

[Eva Luna]

Hmm, what about my newly discovered South African relatives, who emigrated from various Jewish communities in Latvia and Lithuania to South Africa around the turn of the century, and have now been there for several generations (those who haven't left for the U.S., UK, Israel, Argentina, the Netherlands, Malaysia, and/or Australia, that is)? They speak, with varying degrees of proficiency, English, Afrikaans, Yiddish, Hebrew, and various African languages. Are they Jewish? Baltic? African? American? Asian?

And what about the ones who left Lithuania for Mexico, have now been there for multiple generations, and are Mexican citizens who speak Spanish as their native language?

I'm beginning to understand the old Soviet anti-semitic euphemism "rootless cosmopolitan."

[Askia]

Eva Luna. You're mixing ethnic groups, nationalities and regional identifications. All could be true. Language facility is mostly irrelevant to ethnicity and nationality is largely immaterial to religion. Unless they've converted, they're all Jews. Sort individual family members by nationality, interracial heritage, skin tone and if you must, religion. Mazol tov.

[Eva Luna]

Ah, my post was meant more as a rhetorical question. This thread is really turning into a GD.

Actually, in some circumstances language facility isn't at all irrelevant to ethnicity. The Soviet census in some years determined ethnicity based on the stated native language of the person surveyed, but that topic could easily be a book.

[Askia]

Eva Luna. I did say "mostly irrelevant". I thought your post probably was rhetorical, based on the tone, but I've had conversations with other people who weren't. Wasn't trying to be argumentative, or to kill this thread, although I do have that knack. Meant to type, "Oh, just call them family."

[hibernicus]

The Irish word for a black person, oddly, is "duine gorm", which literally means "blue person".

[Aldebaran]

The true Berbers are considered to be caucacian. Which you can see clearly because they have a fair skin, sometimes very light eyes (mostly blue but also green) and sometimes very light hair upto blond.

By the way: to me Americans are Americans.

I find it extremely rude that in America people seem to focus so much on race that it is filled in on forms of all kind.
I for one would refuse to fill in such a form because I would see such stupid questions to be an intrusion of my privacy.
But Americans seem to be very used to it to get categorized according to skin colour. I don't know why people don't find it rude and an intrusion of their privacy.

So how do you call an Arab with a Belgian very caucacian white mother? A White Arab or and Arab White?

What should I fill in on such a form if I was American and willing to contribute to this strange obsession with racial profiling?

Salaam. A

[Aldebaran]

Hibernicus,

Maybe this stemms from people who are since centuries called "the blue men" of the Sahara.
The Touaregs are known for their blue clothing and veils (the men wear veils too). The paint which gives the tissues a fabulous beautiful indigoblue is made of natural substances. Probably now they also use synthetic substances but the natural gives on to the skin and gives it a certain deep colour one can't exactly describe.

Salaam. A

[everton]

Presumably the reason why there are spaces on forms for people to identify their ethnicity is because there are so many claims/accusations that people of certain categories are ignored or underrepresented in public life. The only way to test such claims is to monitor the public, so personally I only object to being asked questions of that kind if there is no opportunity to omit them.