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  #1  
Old 10-11-2003, 05:51 PM
juan2003 juan2003 is offline
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Superintelligent God

Omniscient? Omnipotent? Bah! Wouldn't it make more sense to say that God is just really really smart? Could we even tell superintelligence apart from omniscience?

Consider the gap in intelligence between humans and dogs. A person can understand canine psychology but a dog couldn't even understand why people go to work everday. If one accepts that the difference between man and God comparable to the gap between man and dog, then it explains a lot of theological problems.

Problem of Evil: Smart God has minimized pain and suffering, but our puny stupid human brains just can't understand it. When a dog gets shots at the vet, he doesn't understand that the minor pain of shots prevent major pain of disease.

Myths and Metaphors in Holy Books: Smart God knew we couldn't understand true nature of reality with our feeble minds, so He dumbed it down for us.

Problem of Hell: Dogs probably don't like being spayed or nuetered, but it serves a higher purpose that the dogs themselves wouldn't be able to understand. Smart God made Hell for a reason, but we misinterpreted its purpose as "eternal punishment" with our limited intellect.
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  #2  
Old 10-11-2003, 07:23 PM
Captain Carrot Captain Carrot is offline
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That does make a lot of sense, but I'm not sure that what you've proposed is all that different from God being omniscient. Also, merely saying God is really really smart implies that we can quantify His intelligence, which is essentially saying that it's not infinite.

However, your explanations of a few theological thorns are the best I've ever seen, especially saying that not everything in the Bible is the literal truth.
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  #3  
Old 10-11-2003, 07:42 PM
ammo52 ammo52 is offline
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God is only "really really smart" because that's how we (man) wrote his character when we invented him. We loaded him up with super-duper powers only to then marvel at how mysteriously he wields them.

By the way, I think you're going to have to explain to this dumb old dog, at least, precisely why hell "exists" if not as an eternal punishment. What is it, a special treat?
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  #4  
Old 10-11-2003, 10:09 PM
juan2003 juan2003 is offline
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Does a dog know why he has to be neutered? The dog's view is that he would miss out on a highly enjoyable activity. Do dogs understand that having sex leads to puppies being born? Would a dog understand that overpopulation is a "bad thing"? Could you explain the benefits of sterilization using only concepts that would be understandable to a dog?

Humans are simply too mentally frail to understand Hell. I can more explain Hell than a dog could explain population dynamics. From the outside it might appear to be harsh, but it might possibly be lots of fun once you get inside.
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  #5  
Old 10-12-2003, 04:05 AM
scabpicker scabpicker is offline
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I dunno, I have a problem with that. If god is not omniscient, then he is not perfect (though really, really close), and therefore has no inhrerent right to make judgements on me, because he can make mistakes, just like I do.

Take your spaying and neutering example. That does not happen because the dog does not want to reproduce, it happens because we do not want to be up to our ears in dogs, especially when little Daisy goes into heat. How can I be sure that the superintelligent god does not have a similar motivation that would be good for him, arguably good for my species, and horrible for me personally?

If someone wanted me to believe in a supreme being, omniscience would be a requirement to generate faith that he was working in my best interests. Plus, you lose a big selling point versus other religions with omnipotent gods.
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  #6  
Old 10-12-2003, 07:40 AM
Urban Ranger Urban Ranger is offline
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Super-intelligence has nothing to do with omniscience. A being can be really, really dumb and still have omniscience.
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  #7  
Old 10-12-2003, 07:46 AM
Anduril Anduril is offline
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Huh? Kindly explain. If you know all the answers to all questions, how could you possibly be dumb?
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  #8  
Old 10-12-2003, 08:06 AM
Urban Ranger Urban Ranger is offline
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Take an extreme case. Suppose there is a machine that holds answers to all questions in the universe. It is unintelligent but omniscient.
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  #9  
Old 10-12-2003, 08:43 AM
Kinthalis Kinthalis is offline
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Re: Superintelligent God

Quote:
Originally posted by juan2003
Myths and Metaphors in Holy Books: Smart God knew we couldn't understand true nature of reality with our feeble minds, so He dumbed it down for us.

Well, he did a pretty lousy job there.
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  #10  
Old 10-12-2003, 12:16 PM
juan2003 juan2003 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by scabpicker
I dunno, I have a problem with that. If god is not omniscient, then he is not perfect (though really, really close), and therefore has no inhrerent right to make judgements on me, because he can make mistakes, just like I do.
Let's look at the Bible for an example, shall we?
Quote:
Noah 6:6 King James Version
And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
I'm just a dumb human, but that sounds like God made a mistake to me, not that it matters. Just as you can judge your dog for peeing on the floor, God can judge us for our sins.
Quote:
Originally posted by scabpicker
Take your spaying and neutering example. That does not happen because the dog does not want to reproduce, it happens because we do not want to be up to our ears in dogs, especially when little Daisy goes into heat. How can I be sure that the superintelligent god does not have a similar motivation that would be good for him, arguably good for my species, and horrible for me personally?
My point is that Hell might seem horrible, but it is for the greater good. A sterilized dog can still live a happy and fulfilling life.
Quote:
Originally posted by scabpicker
If someone wanted me to believe in a supreme being, omniscience would be a requirement to generate faith that he was working in my best interests. Plus, you lose a big selling point versus other religions with omnipotent gods.
A god that is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent god does not agree with the state of the world, the worship materials we have, the logic that we can comprehend, or reality in general as we perceive it. If someone wanted me to believe that, I'd laugh at him.

How about we meet at other in the middle and say maybe there is a Smart, Technologically Advanced, Friendly God? It's much more consistent with the data; my idea would more accurately describe an existing god than yours.
Quote:
Originally posted by Kinthalis
Well, he did a pretty lousy job there.
Again let's look at the Bible:
Quote:
Genesis 1:3 King James Version
And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
This is a reference that the speed of light is an important value in physics. Smart God tried to explain it, but it totally went over the guy's head, so he made up the other crap so it would be a story.
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  #11  
Old 10-12-2003, 12:33 PM
hansel hansel is offline
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Your argument is little more than the bromide "God moves in mysterious ways". We don't understand God, so we can't understand theological problems that he's solved. It explains nothing, and your specific solutions are as speculative as everyone else's. You could have the right solutions there, but by your own argument, we can't know. Remember, we're the dog in this story.
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  #12  
Old 10-12-2003, 05:30 PM
juan2003 juan2003 is offline
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Yes, God works in mysterious ways, but I think my explanation is more satisfying. The morals of the story are:
  • Trust in the Lord
  • Don't question authority
  • Humble yourself before God
  • If don't know, no one is going to tell you
  • It's a God thing, you wouldn't understand
Let this be a warning for all you "bright" atheists out there: You may be smart, but you're not smarter than God! Praise Jesus!
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  #13  
Old 10-12-2003, 06:10 PM
hansel hansel is offline
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Your eplanation is no explanation at all, since it reduces to nothing more than your bullet points. It doesn't make anything clear, it doesn't tell me something I didn't know before. At best, you've changed the stitching on my security blanket.

Your bullet points are a fine articulation of your faith, but don't mistake your OP for being some kind of knock-down argument that will have "brights" pounding on your door to hear the word of God.
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