If you’ve ever been to any arcade where they have ticket-redemption games (like skee-ball), then you have most likely seen the game where the light spins around in a circle (or moves up and down), and you have to push a button to stop the light on a certain point to get the ‘jackpot’ of tickets.
Is this game rigged? In one particular model, there is a red light that moves up and down; you have to stop it right in the center. However, I always stop it on the exact section on either side of the center section. I have never stopped it right on the middle section, but always stop it right on either side. This leads me to believe that it’s rigged.
Other than “don’t play”, does anyone have any information on these types of ticket-redemption games, such as tips for winning, or information on how rigged they may be? Thanks!
PPS: Since you are presumably using a skill to win something (tickets) that is redeemable for something of cash value (ie, crappy toys), does this constitute gambling? Should the odds of ticket payoffs be posted somewhere?
If it’s a game of skill (as opposed to a game of chance), it’s not gambling. You’re not placing a wager on the space you think the light will stop on, you’re just paying for a chance to make the light stop on a certain space to win prizes. Posting odds wouldn’t make a lot of sense since winning isn’t a matter of probability but a matter of the timing and reaction speed of the player.
I have been able to win the cyclone game with a fair amount of regularity, so I’d say it’s not rigged (at least, not the one at the Dave and Busters in my hometown…).
The trick is just to time it well and react quickly.
there’s a similar game here, like the ‘wheel of fortune’ wheel, with different sized ‘pies’ and you’re supposed to stop it at that one tiny pie. WAG here, i think the window of opportunity for the light to land on that pie is not proportionate to the size of the pie. that is, it’s even smaller.
I have won the jackpot playing Cyclone many times, although I do admit it is much rarer than hitting either side of the center as you describe. If anything I would guess that maybe the lights are colored or set up somehow to create an optical illusion or distraction so that most people will hit too soon or too late, and get frustrated after a few times and quit. I find that I have to play for quite a few rounds, but once I hit it once or twice I can get a feel for the timing and hit it quite regularly (about 25% of the time). There is some strategy, it’s not just random lights or chance.
I would guess that fixing games like these would be pointless, as even when you win the jackpot the prizes you earn with those tickets are much cheaper for the establishment than the amount they take in on the game. It pays for games to be winnable, because people get excited about the win and want to play more. When you win a jackpot, there is a loud siren and flashing lights, and that also draws attention to the game and makes other people want to play as well. A game that was impossible to win wouldn’t be a very popular game.
With default settings, it’s beatable with practice. but the red light has a tighter timing window than the others.
While each light light up for the same amount of time, the real timing window for the red light is tighter. If you press the button when the red light is lit, but you are not within the real jackpot window, it jumps randomly left or right. Some particularly vicious ones will actually jump multiple spaces.
By default, the jackpot timing window is 3ms, which is humanely hittable somewhat with practice. This setting is legal to operate as a game of skill. The only randomness is what way it jumps if you hit it close but not in the jackpot zone. if you are not aware of that, you will go around for ages trying to get the right timing.
There is a setting called “winability”. this setting stretches the timing window for the jackpot to the maximum after enough games have been played. Many games on location have this set, with the jackpot window set to 1ms. This is the true rigged setting, and it’s very common. a human cannot hit a 1ms timing window with any reliably whatsoever. you don’t know what timing window you are getting. This would be gambling, if tickets were items of valuer.
This is confirmed with the manual. there’s no reason to believe the clones of the game are any different. There IS an optical illusion that causes the lights to blend together as you follow them, and that does make it harder to learn the timing, but not impossible.
Incidentally, spin-n-win at dave and busters doesn’t cheat, it just uses a 2ms window for the jackpot, nearly impossible for a human to hit reliably.
I play backgammon online but there are never any Americans playing. I believe that the regulators have ruled that backgammon is a game of chance, rather than skill and it is not allowed online. Chance certainly plays a large part in the game but a skilled player will always win in the long run over a less skilled player.
The fact that the game hides the real jackpot window, and doesn’t always jump forward if you are late and backward if you are early is rather dishonest.
The video where the robot gets equally on both sides of the jackpot when it can hit a 1ms window proves that.
the incandescent lights can’t even light and unlight fast enough to show the real timing window. So they don’t bother. and while if you actually hit any of the normal lights you know if you are too early or late, the game stubbornly refuses to tell you if you are early or late if you are very close.
spin n win actually DOES light the jackpot light for the right number of ms. when it’s set to a very small window, you can’t even see the light. It doesn’t cheat the way that cyclone does. if you watch when you put in a coin you can see that it seems to jump over the jackpot even when you aren’t pressing it. This is your sign that the jackpot window is very small.
It has no “winability” setting like the cyclone. but there is a rumor that the latest firmware will cut the jackpot window in half after a jackpot is hit for a good number of spins. and that there is no limit to the number of times it will cut the jackpot in half. But after enough spins are played, it will go back to original operator settings. This firmware update was made because people were hitting the jackpot too much at 5 ms.
Ex-arcade tech, Tech supervisor, and arcade operations supervisor at a small amusement park. This is exactly correct. The timing of this particular game can adjusted.
Rigged, no, the manufacturers actually have to be careful they are not making “gambling machines” they can get in trouble. We actually had a horse racing game for a while that was technically gambling, we had to get rid of it. A hard to hit jackpot is not “rigged” any more than a perfect game of skee ball to get a jackpot. its not supposed to be easy.
As far as tips in general, steady hands and good eye hand coordination are the only “solution”
Much like a casino, most arcades have a desired “dispense ratio” in our case it was 40%. almost all ticket dispensing games have ways of adjusting them to shift dispense ratios. In our case the owners didnt really care of some games were tighter or looser as long as the dispensing games as a whole did not exceed 40% We did do an analysis of those games every week and charted it against the last couple months. Sometimes a malfunctions caused over dispense situations. Our skeeball machines were kinda famous for mucked up sensors causing them to keep kicking out tickets until it ran out. All of our games also no matter how badly you missed gave 1 ticket.
I know tons about arcade games and arcade operations, feel free to ask anything.
