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  #1  
Old 12-11-2003, 06:19 PM
Wesley Clark Wesley Clark is offline
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4 year engineering vs. engineering technology degree

A local college offers a B.S. degree in mechanical engineering and mechanical engineering technology. They also offer electrical engineering and electrical engineering technology.

What is the difference between the two BS degrees?
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  #2  
Old 12-11-2003, 06:25 PM
Horrifying Howler Monkey Horrifying Howler Monkey is offline
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I took Chemical Engineering & Chemical Engineering Technology. In my experience there was a lot more theory in the CE, where the CET devoted more time to lab work.
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  #3  
Old 12-11-2003, 06:26 PM
Wesley Clark Wesley Clark is offline
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Dont know if i was clear but for example there is a

B.S. degree in mechanical engineering
B.S. degree in mechanical engineering technology.

B.S. degree in electrical engineering
B.S. degree inelectrical engineering technology

whats the difference in skill, workload, pay, future, responsibility, etc.
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  #4  
Old 12-11-2003, 06:27 PM
hajario hajario is offline
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Are you sure the ME Technology isn't a BA instead of a BS? Some schools have an ET degree which is sort of an engineering lite but it's a BA degree. This is often the same as the engineering degree without the hard core design and lab classes (sometimes senior design project) at the end. If this is the case, I strongly recommend against it. You'll find it much harder to get a job with an ET degree. It will be nearly impossible in a tough job market.

Haj
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  #5  
Old 12-11-2003, 06:27 PM
Wesley Clark Wesley Clark is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Magayuk
I took Chemical Engineering & Chemical Engineering Technology. In my experience there was a lot more theory in the CE, where the CET devoted more time to lab work.
Hmm. so the engineering degree might be more managerial while the technology degree would be more along the lines of a regular worker?

One of the main things im wondering is if someone with a B.Sc. in engineering technology can obtain the same job/pay/responsibility as someone with a B.Sc. in engineering.
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  #6  
Old 12-11-2003, 06:28 PM
hajario hajario is offline
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OK. Now I see that they are both BS degrees. Take a look at the courses required and let us know the differences.

Haj
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  #7  
Old 12-11-2003, 06:29 PM
Wesley Clark Wesley Clark is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by hajario
Are you sure the ME Technology isn't a BA instead of a BS? Some schools have an ET degree which is sort of an engineering lite but it's a BA degree. This is often the same as the engineering degree without the hard core design and lab classes (sometimes senior design project) at the end. If this is the case, I strongly recommend against it. You'll find it much harder to get a job with an ET degree. It will be nearly impossible in a tough job market.

Haj
No its a B.Sc. degree.
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  #8  
Old 12-11-2003, 06:30 PM
Wesley Clark Wesley Clark is offline
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virtually all the classes for both are scientific. i dont know if i can post them on SDMB but here goes.

For the technology degree.

ASSOCIATE OF SCIENCE DEGREE

FRESHMAN YEAR 1ST SEMESTER (15 HOURS REQUIRED)
First Semester
*MET 105 Introduction to Engineering Technology (3 cr.)
*MET 141 Materials I (3 cr.)
*CGT 110 Technical Graphics Communication (3 cr.)
MATH 153 Algebra and Trigonometry I (3 cr.)
ENGL W131 Elementary Composition (3 cr.)

FRESHMAN YEAR 2ND SEMESTER(18 HOURS REQUIRED)
Second Semester
*MET 111 Applied Statics (3 cr.)
TCM 220 Technical Report Writing (3 cr.)
*MET 102 Production Design & Specifications (3 cr.)
*MET 142 Manufacturing Processes I (3 cr.)
OLS 252 Human Behavior in Organizations (3 cr.)
MATH 154 Algebra and Trigonometry II (3 cr.)

SOPHOMORE YEAR 1ST SEMESTER(17 HOURS REQUIRED)
Third Semester
*MET 211 Applied Strength of Materials (4 cr.)
COMM R110 Fundamentals of Speech Communication (3 cr.)
PHYS 218 General Physics I (4 cr.)
*MET 242 Manufacturing Processes II (3 cr.)
MATH 221 Calculus for Technology I (3 cr.)

SOPHOMORE YEAR 2ND SEMESTER(16 HOURS REQUIRED)
Fourth Semester
*MET 214 Machine Elements (3 cr.)
PHYS 219 General Physics II (4 cr.)
*MET 230 Fluid Power (3 cr.)
*MET 220 Heat/Power (3 cr.)
Technical Elective (3 cr.)
Total Hours for A.S. 66 cr.

BACHELOR OF SCIENCE DEGREE

JUNIOR YEAR 1ST SEMESTER(15 HOURS REQUIRED)
Fifth Semester
*MET 320 Applied Thermodynamics (3 cr.)
*MET 213 Dynamics (3 cr.) TCM 340 Correspondence in Business & Industry (3 cr.)
*IET 150 Quantitative Methods for Technology (3 cr.)
MATH 222 Calculus for Technology II (3 cr.)
JUNIOR YEAR 2ND SEMESTER(16 HOURS REQUIRED)
Sixth Semester
*MET 350 Applied Fluid Mechanics (3 cr.)
*MET 310 Computer-Aided Machine Design (3 cr.)
*MET 344 Materials II (3 cr.)
EET 116 Electrical Circuits (4 cr.)
CPT 140 Programming Constructs Lab (3 cr.)
SENIOR YEAR 1ST SEMESTER(15 HOURS REQUIRED)
Seventh Semester
*MET 328 CAD/CAM for Mechanical Design (3 cr.)
*MET 384 Instrumentation (3 cr.)
*IET 104 Industrial Organization (3 cr.)
TCM 370 Oral Practicum for Technical Managers (3 cr.)
*IET 350 Engineering Economics (3 cr.)

SENIOR YEAR 2ND SEMESTER(17 HOURS REQUIRED)
Eighth Semester
*MET 414 Design of Mechanical Projects (3 cr.)
Social Science Elective (3 cr.)
CHEM C101 & C121 Elementary Chemistry I (5 cr.)
Technical Elective (3 cr.)
Social Science Elective (3 cr

for the engineering degree

First Semester (15 cr.)
CHEM C105 Chemical Science I (3 cr.)
COMM R110 Fundamentals of Speech Communication (3 cr.)
ENGR 195: Introduction to the Engineering Profession (1 cr.)
ENGR 196: Introduction to Engineering (3 cr.)
MATH 163 Integrated Calculus and Analytic Geometry I (5 cr.)
[P: MATH 151 (153-154)]

Second Semester (18 cr.)
ENG W131 Elementary Composition I (3 cr.)
ENGR 197 Introduction to Programming Concepts (3 cr.)
[C: MATH 163]
MATH 164 Integrated Calculus and Analytic Geometry II (5)
[P: MATH 163]
PHYS 152 Mechanics (4 cr.)
[C: MATH 164]
Science Elective (3 cr.)

Sophomore Year

Third Semester (18 cr.)
ECON E201 Introduction to Microeconomics (3 cr.)
MATH 261 Multivariate Calculus (4 cr.)
[P: MATH 164]
ME 200 Thermodynamics I (3 cr.)
[P: PHYS 152; C: MATH 261]
ME 270 Basic Mechanics I (3 cr.)
[P: PHYS 152; C: MATH 261]
PHYS 251 Heat, Electricity, and Optics (5 cr.)
[P: PHYS 152]

Fourth Semester (17 cr.)
ECE 204 Introduction to Electrical and Electronic Circuits (4)
General Education Elective (3 cr.)
MATH 262 Linear Algebra and Differential Equations (4 cr.)
[P: MATH 164]
ME 262 Mechanical Design I (3 cr.)
[P: ENGR 197, ME 270; C: ME 274, MATH 262]
ME 274 Basic Mechanics II (3 cr.)
[P: ME 270; C: MATH 262]

Junior Year

Fifth Semester (17 cr.)
General Education Elective (3 cr.)
ME 272 Mechanics of Materials (4 cr.)
[P: ME 270]
ME 310 Fluid Mechanics (4 cr.)
[P: ME 200, ME 274]
ME 330 Modeling and Analysis of Dynamic Systems (3 cr.)
[P: ECE 204, MATH 262]
Statistics Elective (3 cr.)

Sixth Semester (17 cr.)
General Education Elective (3 cr.)
ME 314 Heat and Mass Transfer (4 cr.)
[P: ME 310]
ME 340 Dynamic Systems and Measurements (3 cr.)
[P: ME 330]
ME 344 Introduction to Engineering Materials (3 cr.)
[P: Junior Standing]
ME 372 Mechanical Design II (4 cr.)
[P: ME 262, ME 272, ME 274]

Senior Year

Seventh Semester (14 cr.)
General Education Elective (3 cr.)
ME Elective (3 cr.)
ME Elective (3 cr.)
ME 414 Thermal-Fluid Systems Design (3 cr.)
[P: ME 262, ME 310; C: ME 314]
TCM 360 Communication in Engineering Practice (2 cr.)
[P: ENG W131, COMM R110]

Eighth Semester (14 cr.)
Free Elective (3 cr.)
ME Elective (3 cr.)
ME 401 Engineering Ethics and Professionalism (1 cr.)
[P: Senior Standing]
ME 462 Engineering Design (4 cr.)
[P: ME 344, ME 372; C: ME 414, ME 482]
ME 482 Control Systems Analysis and Design (3 cr.)
[P: ME 340]
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  #9  
Old 12-11-2003, 06:37 PM
hajario hajario is offline
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If you wouldn't mind, just tell us what is different between the two. I'm sorry but I don't want to go through that list and try to figure that out.

Haj
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  #10  
Old 12-11-2003, 06:52 PM
hajario hajario is offline
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I got your email Wesley and the link to the programs at your prospective college.

The BS looks like the classical ME degree, a good mix of theoretical and applied science.

The BSET is the follow on to the ASET. The ASET is a two year degree which will prepare you to be a technician. It's very much applied science hands on. The BSET will continue to be more applied and hands on. You'll specialize in one area, something like tool design. People with this sort of degree are typically going to be more limited in their careers which is fine if there is one specific thing that you really love.

I think that the BS will be more rigerous and serve you better.

I've given you the basics from reading the web site and, of course, YMMV. You should really call one of the advisors at the university for the true details.

Haj
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  #11  
Old 12-11-2003, 07:09 PM
Wesley Clark Wesley Clark is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by hajario
If you wouldn't mind, just tell us what is different between the two. I'm sorry but I don't want to go through that list and try to figure that out.

Haj
i honestly do not know. I am assuming the technology degree is more hands on and less cerebral.
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  #12  
Old 12-11-2003, 07:14 PM
bughunter bughunter is offline
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Well, it appears from the curricula posted by Wesley Clark that the MET degree is oriented more towards manufacturing processes and production, whereas the ME degree goes much more in depth into theory and analysis.

With the ME Technology degree, you'll be better suited for jobs with titles like "Manufacturing Engineer" or "Industrial Engineer," or even "Quality Assurance Engineer." Your job will be to plan and oversee the manufacturing processes, and you'll be working on the production floor where you interface between the design engineers and project management on one side, and the machinists, assemblers and technicians who actually apply the tools to the hardware and make or assemble the end products and their drawings.

With the ME degree, you'll mostly sit behind a computer all day and do analysis and design, taking top level technical requirements and turning them in to instructions for draftspersons who make the drawings for the machinists to read. You'll also do analyses to justify your designs, like calculate internal stresses and heat transfer, life cycle and reliability estimates, etc.

I can't say you'll be any more or less likely to find work with either degree, or that you'll be guaranteed more pay or management opportunities. That all depends on how assertive and motivated you are, and how well adapted you are to the role you choose. If you like the more abstract, egghead stuff, and are very good at math, then choose the ME degree. If you like getting your hands dirty and prefer to work with the craftsman-ey side of things, and identify more with the machinists than with the design engineers, then choose MET.

Either way, if you want to guarantee a career on the management side, then you will also want a degree in business administration later. Lots of places offer this as continuing education so you can attend classes in the evenings while you work as an engineer during the day.

If you plan to go beyond a BS degree in engineering, then definitely take the ME degree.
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  #13  
Old 12-11-2003, 07:40 PM
Wesley Clark Wesley Clark is offline
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Yah. im thinking because its a tech degree its not taken as seriously. thats my main fear. i want to be taken seriously and to be given an opportunity to perform managerial or advanced jobs, not just taking order with no real hope of advancing i guess.
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  #14  
Old 12-11-2003, 07:41 PM
BubbaDog BubbaDog is offline
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Casual observation:

Schoolwise a tech degree has much less study of engineering theory and adds additional classes in application.

The tech classes are still pretty tough but not quite as tough as the pure engineering theory classes

People with engineering tech degrees usually work for people with engineering degrees.

Some states won't qualify techs to get an engineering license.

The tech degree is still a fairly strong degree and, depending on your employers rules, a tech is not limited from management positions. It just might take a little longer to make the corporate climb than the engineers.

Bubba
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  #15  
Old 12-11-2003, 08:09 PM
Wesley Clark Wesley Clark is offline
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when i look at the Civil engineering technology AS degree it says

"The curriculum is not intended to prepare students for registration as professional engineers."

it doesnt say taht about mechanical engineer technology or electrical engineer technology

for engineering it says

"Graduates of this program are qualified for high-level positions as technologists"

so looks liek the best i could hope for is a technologist position with one of those degrees. maybe a normal engineering degree is better?
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  #16  
Old 12-11-2003, 08:11 PM
Wesley Clark Wesley Clark is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wesley Clark

for engineering it says

That should say

for electrical engineering it says



I shouldnt post drunk.
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  #17  
Old 12-11-2003, 10:16 PM
Una Persson Una Persson is offline
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Umm...I didn't see whether this was a United States college or not, but one thing you may want to check is whether the tech degree will allow you to sit for the F.E., and later the P.E. Those can be pretty important for some career paths, and will only be more and more important in the future IMHO.
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  #18  
Old 12-12-2003, 10:56 AM
Sunspace Sunspace is offline
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Electrical Engineering Technologist (Sheridan College class of '85) here.

In Ontario, the Technologist diploma (not a degree here), when I took it, was a three-year program heavily weighted toward practicalities. We were very hands-on: build this, service that, etc, with enough theory to support it, but we did not get into extremely theoretical design.

There was also a two-year Technician program.

This sorts neatly into the hierarchy at work: engineers design the stuff, technologists implement their designs, and technicians repair things.

If I wanted to get my electrical engineering degree, I'd have to go to university and at a minimum take another year of classes to get the four-year minimum requirement. I suspect that I'd have to take quite a bit more; things have advanced a lot since I was in school.

In Ontario, EETs have their own professional association, OACETT, separate from the professional engineers.
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  #19  
Old 12-12-2003, 12:07 PM
Galena Galena is offline
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I agree with Una Persson. If you really want to be an engineer, you want the degree path that will allow you to be a "Professional Engineer" otherwise known as a P.E. Being a P.E. is extremely important for your progression in some engineering fields (like mine, Civil/Environmental). I've heard it's not that important to Electrical Engineering, but if in ten years the company you work for tells you that they want you to become a P.E. (in order to give you a promotion or a raise) you will be kicking yourself for not taking the program that led to it. A P.E. is important because the US government requires a P.E. to examine, supervise, and approve most engineering designs before they are implemented.

IMHO, an engineering degree is better, because your chances for advancement are higher and you are less likely to be stuck doing repetitive or non-design work. If you aren't too interested in having a lot of responsibility, an engineering techonology degree might be better.
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  #20  
Old 12-12-2003, 12:43 PM
Balthisar Balthisar is online now
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Wesley Clark, what is it you want to do with your life? You can live very, very comfortably with the tech. degree, assuming you're not talking about stopping at an associate level -- although in many industrial fields all you need is a high school diploma and proven skills (I know a few control "engineers" like this).

In my specific field of the auto industry, there's no such thing as an engineering degree -- technology degree is all that exists (last I heard, there's only one doctor in the field in the USA, and I worked for him for a bit). Despite not being "real" engineers, the responsibility and decision making is all the same. You can advance to the same levels. There's nothing really holding anyone back, and the rarity of the occupation can lauch you forward. Granted this is one example of a more arcane field than say, an electrical engineer.

Of course, I'm talking about accredited, well known universities (there're only two that I know of for this field), not something like a tech. school (which aren't bad, just different).

The fact is, once you have a degree and the skill set and experience that an employer is looking for, it doesn't really matter what the degree is in. Although as said, to get to upper management you'll want the MBA.
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  #21  
Old 12-12-2003, 01:00 PM
hajario hajario is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sunspace
In Ontario, the Technologist diploma (not a degree here), when I took it, was a three-year program heavily weighted toward practicalities. We were very hands-on: build this, service that, etc, with enough theory to support it, but we did not get into extremely theoretical design.
This system only applies in Canada. The US is very different and doesn't have anything equivalent. In many respects, I like the Canadian system better.

As far as the PE goes. Getting your PE is more or less a requirement for Civil, Structural and Geotechincal Engineers. It's generally not all that necessary for MEs and EEs. You only really need it as an ME if you plan to go into construction engineering. This is low tech (design of air conditioning and heating systems, ductwork layout, plumbing..) and typically pays a fair amount less than something like manufacturing. On the plus side, the industry is more stable.

I passed the PE and have a stamp and I did briefly work in the construction field. I enjoyed it but I like high tech better. I have never heard of an ME in a high tech field needed a PE.

Haj
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  #22  
Old 12-12-2003, 01:10 PM
hroeder hroeder is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wesley Clark
virtually all the classes for both are scientific. i dont know if i can post them on SDMB but here goes.

For the technology degree.

ASSOCIATE OF SCIENCE DEGREE

F
:wally The first task in going to college is to learn to read. It says "Associate of Science Degree". That is a two year degree designed to prepare technicians to do hands on work. It is NOT an Engineering Degree.
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  #23  
Old 12-12-2003, 01:15 PM
Wesley Clark Wesley Clark is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Balthisar
Wesley Clark, what is it you want to do with your life? You can live very, very comfortably with the tech. degree, assuming you're not talking about stopping at an associate level -- although in many industrial fields all you need is a high school diploma and proven skills (I know a few control "engineers" like this).

In my specific field of the auto industry, there's no such thing as an engineering degree -- technology degree is all that exists (last I heard, there's only one doctor in the field in the USA, and I worked for him for a bit). Despite not being "real" engineers, the responsibility and decision making is all the same. You can advance to the same levels. There's nothing really holding anyone back, and the rarity of the occupation can lauch you forward. Granted this is one example of a more arcane field than say, an electrical engineer.

Of course, I'm talking about accredited, well known universities (there're only two that I know of for this field), not something like a tech. school (which aren't bad, just different).

The fact is, once you have a degree and the skill set and experience that an employer is looking for, it doesn't really matter what the degree is in. Although as said, to get to upper management you'll want the MBA.
i dont know what i want to do with my life. mechanical engineering and chemistry (or biochemistry) where the 2 fields i wanted to go into. i guess i want chemistry because my dads a pharmacist (pharmacists are basically just chemistry majors with added on pharmacological studies). So i'm either trying to follow in my father's footsteps with the chem degree or i want an engineering degree. I want something i'd like but i also want something that pays a living wage (30k a year or more), preferably with job security and the ability to work part time or around the clock (all 3 shifts open). Also from info ive read i've come to the conclusion taht liking what you do is only a minor factor in job satisfaction. Having good coworkers, work freedom, a good boss, good customers, the ability to learn new things, etc are more important to job satisfaction than whether you like the purpose of your job.

I'd prefer chemical engineering (again, the father being a pharmacist thing) but i would much prefer mechanical instead of something like electrical. As far as the other engineering degrees (Biomedical, nuclear, aeronautics) i dont think there are enough jobs in the US to justify getting a degree in them.

These mech engineering tech degree is from IUPUI, an accredited state college here, the degrees are accredited by the ABET. I looked into tech degrees and i heard that you should check that the degree is accredited by the ABET before you sign up.

I wouldn't stop at the A.S. level, no. However the IUPUI website says those with B.S. degrees in Mech. engineering tech. are only qualified to be 'high level technologists'.

What do you mean 'live quite comfortably'? do you mean like $25/hr or so with a BS degree is possible? I'm sure its possible i know a guy over the internet with an A.A(pplied).S. in production technology who makes about $70k a year. However it being possible to make a great wage and actually earning a great wage are 2 totally different things.
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Old 12-12-2003, 01:17 PM
Wesley Clark Wesley Clark is offline
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Originally posted by hroeder
:wally The first task in going to college is to learn to read. It says "Associate of Science Degree". That is a two year degree designed to prepare technicians to do hands on work. It is NOT an Engineering Degree.
nice work nitwit. had you actually read the post you would've seen that the AS in technology transfers into the BS in technology. the schedule is broken down into the AS & BS. AS is semesters 1-4, BS is 5-8.

:wally
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  #25  
Old 12-12-2003, 01:21 PM
chappachula chappachula is offline
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think of it like this-compared to medicine: a full engineering degree is like a doctor, a Technical degree is like a nurse.
Both good professions, but different, and appropriate for different kinds of people.
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  #26  
Old 12-12-2003, 01:22 PM
Wesley Clark Wesley Clark is offline
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Originally posted by chappachula
think of it like this-compared to medicine: a full engineering degree is like a doctor, a Technical degree is like a nurse.
Both good professions, but different, and appropriate for different kinds of people.
yeah thats kind of the impression i was getting. technologists work hands on to complete the PE's agenda while the P.E.s work more on a cerebral & managerial level.
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  #27  
Old 12-12-2003, 01:23 PM
hroeder hroeder is offline
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it is a stepping stone. At the end of sophomore year you'll find this "Total Hours for A.S. 66 cr. " That means you're awarded an Associate Degree after two years. And you can exit at that point. If you want to continue for your Bachelors then you need to take the remaining courses.
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  #28  
Old 12-12-2003, 01:24 PM
Wesley Clark Wesley Clark is offline
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Originally posted by hroeder
it is a stepping stone. At the end of sophomore year you'll find this "Total Hours for A.S. 66 cr. " That means you're awarded an Associate Degree after two years. And you can exit at that point. If you want to continue for your Bachelors then you need to take the remaining courses.
Yeah i know. The courses for the BS in mech. eng. tech vs. mech eng. are totally different though.
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  #29  
Old 12-12-2003, 01:42 PM
F. U. Shakespeare F. U. Shakespeare is offline
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Just one engineer's $0.02:

I would vote for getting the engineering degree unless you have some insurmountable obstacle (e.g., you can't do the required math, your wife is expecting triplets, etc.). Bottom line: it will give you more options.

My undergrad degree is in electrical engineering. Although I didn't pursue the P.E., I was later able to qualify immediately for various graduate programs that interested me, in applied math and computer science. Had I gone the ET route, I still could have done so. But I would have had a lot more deficiency classes to take. The engineering background is wider.

And even if you never go to grad school or sit for the P.E., I would wager that an engineering degree will offer a slight advantage (over ET) with prospective employers.

This is not to denigrate anybody with an ET degree. (Some of the most competent engineers I've ever worked with held ET degrees). I am referring here to the value of the respective degrees.
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Old 12-12-2003, 01:49 PM
F. U. Shakespeare F. U. Shakespeare is offline
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I would also like to state that a good engineering curriculum will prepare you very well for technical, hands-on work -- it does not inevitably steer you towards management.
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  #31  
Old 12-12-2003, 02:17 PM
hroeder hroeder is offline
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Go get an aptitude test. Following in Dad's footsteps is not a career choice. IVY Tech or IU will give you one. Then talk to the advisor.

The average number of hours in a year is 2080. So if you're making $20 an hour, you're making making $40K.

If you can get into IU, go and take a year of college before you decide what you want to do. You'd be amazed how many people change their majors. Only a minority actual finish in what they started in. First year undergrad (except for those "tech" degrees) is basically the same all over the map. And you can make a better decision with that experience behind you.
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  #32  
Old 12-12-2003, 02:38 PM
Wesley Clark Wesley Clark is offline
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i already have 2 years of college. 52 credit hours. right now im in nursing school but i fear flunking out. My academics are really good but i screwed up on a clinical day and got 0s for it so now i fear failing out and i'd rather not spend another 2.5 years getting a degree that was suppoesed to be a 2 year degree.
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  #33  
Old 12-12-2003, 03:01 PM
Galena Galena is offline
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Quote:
What do you mean 'live quite comfortably'? do you mean like $25/hr or so with a BS degree is possible? I'm sure its possible i know a guy over the internet with an A.A(pplied).S. in production technology who makes about $70k a year. However it being possible to make a great wage and actually earning a great wage are 2 totally different things.
Oh, $25 an hour with a BS in Electrical Engineering is very possible. That's about where most of my university's graduates in EE start straight out of college. Some of the engineers I have worked for have made upwards of $100K per year. I don't know about the Engineering Technology salary though...we don't have any of those...
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  #34  
Old 12-12-2003, 03:33 PM
Wesley Clark Wesley Clark is offline
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yeah $25/hr is attainable with a regular engineering degree. Thats a little higher than starting wages for a B.S. engineer, something like that. Getting to 60k a year after 4-5 years with a BS in engineering is doable too.

I looked at salary.com and for an introductory engineering technician in indianapolis and fort wayne, median income is 32k a year to start, goes up to 40k a year after 3-4 years of experience. However that is for someone with only a high school degree, someone with an AS might get a little better pay. Pay is pretty much the same no matter what engineering field you go into i guess.
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  #35  
Old 12-12-2003, 05:54 PM
Voyager Voyager is offline
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Take a look at the math in the two options. the technology one starts with algebra, and slowly works its way up to calculus. The engineering one starts with full calculus, and goes from there. If you can do it, I agree that the engineering degree gives more options.

BTW, very few engineering managers I know have MBAs. Some very high level ones do, but the company typically paid for it. You can easily make it to second level manager without one - in fact in many places it is a hindrance.
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  #36  
Old 12-12-2003, 07:00 PM
Wesley Clark Wesley Clark is offline
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well the main reason im looking at engineering tech is i want to graduate ASAP, then maybe go back to school to finish a degree. there is no AS in engineering around here, just an AS in engineering technology.
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  #37  
Old 12-12-2003, 07:29 PM
GroverCrawford2000 GroverCrawford2000 is offline
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I went to IPFW in Fort Wayne which probably has a similar program since their both part of Purdue. Most of the people who start out in the ME program end up switching to the MET program when they can't pass calculus in the 2nd year. A lot of people who struggle as ME's end up doing a lot better when they switch to MET because it is a lot easier. Personally I'm glad I stuck it out as an ME because I've found there are some jobs where they will only hire ME's but if they're willing to hire an MET they'll almost always hire an ME too. About 5 years ago when I graduated the going rate in the Fort Wayne area for ME's right out of school was about 40-45k per year
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  #38  
Old 12-13-2003, 10:40 AM
Balthisar Balthisar is online now
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wesley Clark
What do you mean 'live quite comfortably'? do you mean like $25/hr or so with a BS degree is possible? I'm sure its possible i know a guy over the internet with an A.A(pplied).S. in production technology who makes about $70k a year. However it being possible to make a great wage and actually earning a great wage are 2 totally different things.
Absolutely -- I'm salaried (using me as an example) so don't get paid hourly. But salary / 2080 > $25 hour by a good deal. Granted I started my career making considerably less, and without any degree at all. I got out of the Army in 1996 to take a job making $12.80/hour (considerably more than the Army had been paying). In 1999 (not too long ago!) I added $10/hour by having experience and switching companies. In 2000.5 another considerable increase by having experience and switching companies, with regular increases since. I'm currently crossing my fingers for another position in my same company that would be yet another substantial increase by virtue of increase my "level" (no lateral transfers right now, so if they want me they have to promote me). I'm just below midway for my current level; the next level has a maximum base salary of over $100,000 (not that I expect maximum). Of course unless I get an advanced degree, the next level is pretty much the most I could expect to attain -- beyond that is considered the lowest level of upper management (which doesn't really interest me, and it's not impossible, but an MBA would really, really help. Not an advanced engineering degree, but business).

In all, from $12.80 to significantly-over-$25 took four years. I'm not rich by any stretch of the imagination, and I wouldn't say well-to-do. But money is never a struggle (thank you God), and comfortable never means having to worry about the gas bill. On the other hand our only luxeries are being able to use Macs instead of the alternatives <shudder>, and having a full-sized, nice car. FWIW, I still live in the same house I bought when I made $12.80 per hour (improved by now), but mostly because it hasn't sold all summer long.

I work in the auto industry in Michigan, by the way.
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  #39  
Old 12-13-2003, 03:10 PM
Wesley Clark Wesley Clark is offline
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thanks Balthisar, thats encouraging. However im more of a pessimist so i'll assume that after struggling for a year to find a job i'll find some $13/hr technician job somewhere with an ASMET. Maybe go up to $18/hr with a BSMET. Hell if i know though.

Im just hoping that there is a job market for an ASMET. I would naturally go on to get a BSMET if i could find a job.

Does anyone know what all remedial coursework (if this is possible) i would have to do to qualify as a PE or to apply for a graduate degree in engineering? i am not sure its possible or not im just throwing the idea out right now.

IUPUI also offers an AS in biomedical engineering technology, however this transfers into a BS in EE technology. i dont want to be an EE.
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  #40  
Old 12-13-2003, 03:13 PM
Wesley Clark Wesley Clark is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Balthisar

I work in the auto industry in Michigan, by the way.
Theres an engineer i talk to from another board who does that too in michigan as well. Hes an industrial engineer though (not a technologist), but hes in the auto industry. Hes doing pretty good with 4 years of experience under his belt (around 65k a year), however he says that the engineering market has bad waves of hiring and firing where he is at.
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  #41  
Old 12-14-2003, 01:53 PM
Balthisar Balthisar is online now
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Wesley Clark, see The NCEES for everything about being a P.E. I'm not, and not considering it, and don't think it's necessary. But I don't design bridges. Heck, I don't even design cars, so it doesn't really matter. In the auto industry, the P.E.'s would oftern be DRE -- design release engineers. Others may do the work, but someone responsible (who I imagine is PE, maybe not?) has to sign off on it.

The auto industry in Michigan has its tentacles in everything. There's a lot you could do here and legitimately say you work in the auto industry. Me, I work directly for one of the Big 2 (used to be Big 3, but Chrysler doesn't count anymore) directly. It's a little bit more secure, especially as an engineer and especially in the more limited fields. Contractors have a rough time (been there) when the economy bounces. Vendors, too, have all their ups and downs. There's a special class of vendor called "build houses" or "integration shops" that definitely have their ups and downs. There are a lot of engineers and skilled trades that work in these. Build houses (like Pico or Utica Enterprises) typically design and build our entire assembly lines! I'd really go off on a big tangent describing everything they do, so I won't unless anyone asks. But without them, we couldn't survice. No one at Ford or GM (for example) knows how to build the assembly lines now days, so we sub that out. It's big money for a lot of engineers and skilled trades, but when we hit a downturn, new projects dry up. With no new projects, there's no new work, so a lot of layoffs, even though the Big 2 may not lay off anyone. Kind of the hidden story behind the auto industry.

A lot of the brighter guys that work there take great advantage of it. Despite being non-exempt, competition pretty much mandates overtime pay. So there'll often be months of work for 12-hours days, seven days per week. If you're not like some bozos who indebt themselves too much, you save this and take advantage of the layoff as a vacation. What you've earned on premium time is more than enough until the next big order comes in.
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  #42  
Old 12-14-2003, 04:42 PM
Una Persson Una Persson is offline
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As an aside, being a PE has some odd advantages. I recently discovered that my PE stamp can be used to certify that a passport photo is a "true and accurate representation" of a UK citizen who is in the US and getting their passport renewed whilst over here. And that the PE stamp actually supercedes a notary's stamp in acceptibility for that odd case.

A PE is also considered to be an "expert witness" in engineering matters by default in some States. It seems to be in my State.

When I made my earlier point, I wasn't pushing PE versus non-PE. All I was saying is, it's something to check out and consider. I think that over time there will continue to be a slow evolution of the importance of the PE.
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  #43  
Old 12-15-2003, 05:03 AM
Balthisar Balthisar is online now
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That's pretty, well, odd, Una Persson né Anthracite.

FWIW Wesley Clark, I'm not trying to talk anyone out of getting their PE!
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  #44  
Old 12-17-2003, 03:31 PM
Wesley Clark Wesley Clark is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wesley Clark
Theres an engineer i talk to from another board who does that too in michigan as well. Hes an industrial engineer though (not a technologist), but hes in the auto industry. Hes doing pretty good with 4 years of experience under his belt (around 65k a year), however he says that the engineering market has bad waves of hiring and firing where he is at.
I just talked to him and i was misinformed. he is an Industrial engineering technologist with a BS rather than an industrial engineer. So apparantly there is a future in that field. He told me he works with alot of engineering technologists.

My big worry is still getting an ASMET and not being able to go back for a BSMET. I dont know if credits would transfer across state lines (like if i did the ASMET at IU in indiana and tried for a BSMET at Florida state) that'd be up to each particular college's decision.
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