Theism v. Atheism Books

[Meatros]

Lately I've been going over the cosmic question over and over again to little avail. I've picked up a few books-from both sides of the fence, atheistic and theistic and that left me thinking:

What are the best books that cover this matter? What is the best book for critical thinking, that supports theism? The best book that supports atheism?

I realize that this is going to be an opinion, but I'm asking it none-the-less.

Thanks,

[js_africanus]

Try the Internet Infidels: www.infidels.org . Though, if you go to the forum, please don't invite any of them back to the SDMB.

[gobear]

Why not? The more skeptics, the better, I say. I post there, too, and I have yet to lead anyone anywhere.

[FordPrefect]

I have only read one book specifically on atheism, but I liked it. It was "Atheism: The Case Against God" by George H. Smith.

[tdn]

Three authors spring to mind (not for theism debate, but for fantastic critical thinking that falls a little more on the atheist side -- but just a little):

Sherman
Gould
Sagan

They now seem like old pals of mine.

[Amun]

I've been told that C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity is quite good. I borrowed a copy of it from a friend, but haven't had time to really delve into it yet.

[Meatros]

Originally Posted by js_africanus

Try the Internet Infidels: www.infidels.org . Though, if you go to the forum, please don't invite any of them back to the SDMB.

Um...I'm actually a member there...

[Meatros]

Originally Posted by FordPrefect

I have only read one book specifically on atheism, but I liked it. It was "Atheism: The Case Against God" by George H. Smith.

I'm actually reading that now, I like Smith's style. I'm not too far into it, but he seems to be going into really fine detail (in the first 50+ pages) so I'm thinking it will be a good read.

[Meatros]

Originally Posted by tdn

Three authors spring to mind (not for theism debate, but for fantastic critical thinking that falls a little more on the atheist side -- but just a little):

Sherman
Gould
Sagan

They now seem like old pals of mine.

I've actually read a few books from each of them .

Which books did you have in mind, incidentally.






Also, Gobear, if you don't mind me asking, what's your screen name on II?

[jsc1953]

By cosmic coincidence, I just read in today's paper about a book that sounds like what you're looking for: "The Question of God: C.S. Lewis and Sigmund Freud Debate God, Love, Sex and the Meaning of Life" by Dr. Armand Nicholi (Free Press). Unlike the cites above, this appears to present both sides of the argument.

[iamthewalrus(:3=]

I will second Mere Christianity.

I read it a few years ago, and remember enjoying it and learning quite a bit about Christianity and arguments for Theism in general. For what it's worth, I'm an atheist, but many of my Christian friends strongly recommended the book.

[js_africanus]

Originally Posted by Meatros

Um...I'm actually a member there...

A rose among thorns.

[FriarTed]

You may find some good pro-theism stuff in the later works of Mortimer Adler. Also, J.P. Moreland has been recommended to me. CS Lewis, much as I am an admirer, was not a rigorous philosopher- he was more a literary scholar. A lot of his Christian writing appeal to the emotions & imagination as much as to the intellect, and is vulnerable to dispassionate philosophical dissection because of that. Years ago, I was into Francis Schaeffer & was impressed by his work then, but I haven't read him lately & not sure how well he holds up.

[coffeecat]

Theism: The Varieties of Religious Experience, by William James.

[DaPearl]

Though it is not exclusively about atheism and theism, Ibn Warraq's Why I Am Not a Muslim covers the topic extensively. The book is a bit controversail as an attack on Islam, but much in the book can be applied to other religions and Warraq makes compelling arguements.

I've read a bit about eastern religion in the past two but I'm drawing blanks at the moment on specific titles.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

I'll second William James and throw in Alan Watts as good writers about the religious experience.

I haven't found a book that I think makes a truly convincing argument for formal theism, though. that's kind of an uphill battle. There simply isn't any evidence or any necessity to postulate such a thing. They tend to be (as C.S> Lewis is) largely based on appeals to emotion, arguments from assertion (such as Lewis' insistence that the Bible is "unique" among religious texts) and retreads of classical "proofs" such as the cosmological ("First Cause") and teleological (intelligent design) arguments.

I think the better pro-theism arguments tend to be those that are more poetic and allegorical than systematic. Try John Irving's A Prayer for Owen Meany for instance.

I've read Atheism: The Case Against God and it does a good job of presenting the atheist position but it proves nothing absolutely. Carl Sagan's Demon-Haunted World is about as good as it gets for teaching critical thinking.

[Apos]

I agree with the condemnation of Lewis. He writes in a very fatherly way that is endearing, but he uses this good will to hide extremely sloppy arguments rife with false dilemna, straw men, and just plain nastiness towards those that don't agree with his position. George Smith is likewise far too nasty, but he is at least open about what he is doing.

Michael Shermers' "How We Believe" however, is a great book if you are looking to understand the subject from a more statistical perspective (with some surprising results about why people tend to believe) and without the nastiness, though it is still at heart a skeptic and agnostic's work. It won't change your mind on anything, but it gives you a lot to think about.

[ResIpsaLoquitor]

I recommend Tell Me Why by Michael and Jaina Novak. Basically, the daughter (Jaina) is spiritually on the fence, and throws question after question at her father about God, religion, and numerous other topics of the day. His responses are loving but thorough. I didn't find the book terribly preachy--I think the style allows the reader to side with either Michael or Jaina (although I do think that dad gets much more time in the spotlight).

[RikWriter]

Sagan's "The Demon Haunted World" makes a good case against at least fundamentalist religion.

[Thudlow Boink]

Good call on the William James, coffeecat.

One book you might find interesting: The Whys of a Philosophical Scrivener by Martin Gardner. Here's the introduction in its entirety:

This is a book of essays on what I believe and why.

Roughly half of the book is about God and other religious issues (chapter titles include "The Proofs: Why I Do Not Believe God's Existence Can Be Demonstrated"; "Faith: Why I Am Not An Atheist"; and "Prayer: Why I Do Not Think It Foolish."), the other half covering politics, economics, ethics, aesthetics, and other philosophical issues. There's a lot of interesting food for thought there, well thought out, clearly written, and backed up by much reading and thinking.

Gardner is known both for his writings on recreational mathematics and for his skeptical debunkings of pseudoscience and the paranormal (among other things). Isaac Asimov himself once wrote, "I think Martin knows everything."

[tdn]

Originally Posted by RikWriter

Sagan's "The Demon Haunted World" makes a good case against at least fundamentalist religion.

That would be my first choice.

For Sherman, Why People Believe Weird Things.

(Quick check of my bookshelf, that would be Shermer, not Sherman.)

[jsc1953]

Originally Posted by DaPearl

Though it is not exclusively about atheism and theism, Ibn Warraq's Why I Am Not a Muslim covers the topic extensively. The book is a bit controversail as an attack on Islam, but much in the book can be applied to other religions and Warraq makes compelling arguements.

I've read a bit about eastern religion in the past two but I'm drawing blanks at the moment on specific titles.

The title sounds like a reference to Bertrand Russell's Why I Am Not a Christian .

[RikWriter]

Originally Posted by tdn

For Shermer, Why People Believe Weird Things.

I have that one too...good read. Also interesting is The Lucifer Principle.

[Apos]

Why people believe weird things focuses much less on religion than it does on case studies about Holocaust denial, witch hunts, Randian cults, and creationism. It doesn't really touch as much on theistic arguments as does How we Believe.

You could always try Alvin Plantinga for some fairly high powered arguments for the existence of god. I don't happen to agree with most of them, but it's definately high level, well thought out stuff.

[DaPearl]

Originally Posted by jsc1953

The title sounds like a reference to Bertrand Russell's Why I Am Not a Christian .

Indeed it is, though I'm unfamiliar with Russel's work.

[Voyager]

I have Atheism, the Case Against God but I wouldn't recommend it. Smith's arguments have many holes in them, speaking as an atheist. For instance, his arguments against first cause is that matter is eternal, which is just wrong. Russell's book, though a collection of essays, is much better, IMO.

Another one I like is Atheism: A Reader edited by S. T. Joshi. It is a collection of essays about atheism, and includes one from Demon Haunted World.

[digs]

Didn't someone dub C.S. Lewis "Apostle to the Skeptics"?

Appropriate for this thread.

[beajerry]

Michael Shermer's How We Believe is the best I've read, beside
Sagan's Demon-Haunted World.

It may sound odd, but a great book that helps one with critical thinking is How To Think Straight About Psychology by Keith Stanovich.

More to the theistic study would be any book by Mircea Eliade, Huston Smith, Karen Armstrong. They are more concerned with the history and theory of religions, but the more one knows about Other religions, the clearer it is that they are all about the same thing, just different symbols and methods.

[RikWriter]

An interesting, but ultimately IMHO unconvincing argument from the theist side is "Finding Darwin's God" by Kenneth Miller.