Writing the date

[AngelicGemma]

Why do American's write the date differently from the British? For example I would write todays date as 25/1/04. But I know Americans would write it as 1/25/04. Why is that?

[StarvingButStrong]

Originally Posted by AngelicGemma

Why do American's write the date differently from the British? For example I would write todays date as 25/1/04. But I know Americans would write it as 1/25/04. Why is that?

The American way seems logical to me -- it's just the written version of what I would say if asked the date: January 25, 2004 = 1/25/04.

So to me the question is, why do the British do it the other way? If I asked you the date, would you say 'January 25th" or do you actually say "the 25th of January"?

[aerodave]

Americans don't always write it month-day-year. In the military, the preferred format is DD Month YYYY. But it can vary a little depending on the context. And if it's expressed in numbers, as it is commonly on forms, it's either MM/DD/YY or YYYYMMDD

You might see today's date written one of a few ways.

25 January 2004
25 Jan 04
1/25/04
20040125

But it is never wreitten as 25/1/04. That's just far too confusing.

[C K Dexter Haven]

Most Brits (as well as most Europeans) would both write and say "25th January."

[aerodave]

And, in repsone to the second poster...

When we speak it, we sometimes say often say "January twenty-fifth." But "twenty-five January" probably more common. Typical government efficiency for you.

[jjimm]

What date is Independence Day again?

[Jayn_Newell]

The canadian method is dd/mm/yy as well, It makes more sense to me. You start off with the smallest unit of time--a day.

[Ximenean]

Originally Posted by StarvingButStrong

The American way seems logical to me -- it's just the written version of what I would say if asked the date: January 25, 2004 = 1/25/04.

So to me the question is, why do the British do it the other way? If I asked you the date, would you say 'January 25th" or do you actually say "the 25th of January"?

The most common form would be "January the 25th", I'd say, with "the 25th of January" coming a close second. I've never heard anyone say "25th January"; "January 25th" you do hear, but it sounds a bit formal.

[GorillaMan]

Originally Posted by Usram

I've never heard anyone say "25th January"

I do all the time....as a result of regional accents. I guess you'd write it something like "u'Twennyfiff u'Januree". Gawd bless Suffolk.

[LSLGuy]

Usram,

Originally Posted by Usram

The most common form would be "January the 25th", I'd say, with "the 25th of January" coming a close second. I've never heard anyone say "25th January"; "January 25th" you do hear, but it sounds a bit formal.

I'm assuming you're American, as am I. As someone else already pointed out above, in the US military dates are almost always written like "25 Jan 04". The only common exception is that computer input is often in 2005/01/25 format.

But the previous poster didn't explain military pronunciation. The correct style is said as "twenty-five January." The upcoming Superbowl will be held on "one February oh-four". Independence Day is celebrated on "four July" every year. In the military, dates don't have st's, nd's, rd's or th's.

Then again, two hours after noon is pronounced "fourteen hundred", not "two pee em," so it's not surprising that military folks say the dates differently than the public at large also.

I've been out of the service for almost 16 years and I still catch myself using military date formats and pronuciation from time to time, usually baffling my non-veteran co-workers.

[LSLGuy]

If anyone wants a crash course in the differences in international styles for dates, times, etc., open the Windows control panel & select "regional options."

My Win 2000 installation has about 75 choices to pick from. Each contains specific rules for punctuating numbers, currency, dates and times. You'd be amazed how many different formats are out there.

Many of those 75 choices differ only in the symbol used for the local currency, but there are still at least a half dozen distinct ways to write the date.

[aerodave]

Originally Posted by LSLGuy

But the previous poster didn't explain military pronunciation. The correct style is said as "twenty-five January."

Sure I did.

Originally Posted by me

But "twenty-five January" probably more common. Typical government efficiency for you.

[everton]

Originally Posted by LSLGuy

I'm assuming you're American, as am I.

No, Usram's British (as am I). Although many variations on the written and spoken form are common, today is the twenty-fifth day of January, so that would be the most logical way of saying it.

[David Simmons]

The only sure-fire way to write a date is "25 January" or "January 25." If space for writing counts then DD/MM/YY is the one only of such methods that makes sense.

But I don't want to be dogmatic about it.

[Phage]

I remember hearing that the style of MM/DD/YY came about with the Industrial Revolution, where monthly tallies and records became ingrained in the culture. At this point I think it comes down to tradition.

[AngelicGemma]

Originally Posted by StarvingButStrong

If I asked you the date, would you say 'January 25th" or do you actually say "the 25th of January"?

I'd say the 25th of January.

[everton]

Originally Posted by Phage

I remember hearing that the style of MM/DD/YY came about with the Industrial Revolution, where monthly tallies and records became ingrained in the culture. At this point I think it comes down to tradition.

That could be right, but I seem to recall something about the IR happening here (in the UK) too.

[Balthisar]

As a United Statesian, I do prefer the 25-Jan-2004 format myself. I detest the 01/25/04 and the 25/01/04 formats both, because they're indistinct, and Windows has a hard time figuring out that if I'm using Excel I want the mm/dd/yy format so I don't confuse other people with dd/mm/yy.

In any case, what I really prefer and use for organizing all of my own stuff is the yyyy-mm-dd format. Makes sorting in any type of program super, super easy.

[LSLGuy]

Originally Posted by audilover

Sure I did.

Whoops. Sorry.

[elfkin477]

Originally Posted by Jayn_Newell

The canadian method is dd/mm/yy as well, It makes more sense to me. You start off with the smallest unit of time--a day.

That depends on how you define "smallest." To me the month is the smallest, since it can only go to 12- we consider it ordered from smallest (1-12) to biggest (0 to infinite), which seems very orderly It's smallest number vs smallest increment of time.

[kniz]

Whatever method they use in Rome is the correct one.

[Mangetout]

Originally Posted by elfkin477

That depends on how you define "smallest." To me the month is the smallest, since it can only go to 12- we consider it ordered from smallest (1-12) to biggest (0 to infinite), which seems very orderly It's smallest number vs smallest increment of time.

I can't see any point in doing it for that reason though - it isn't as though the actual values expressed are going to remain ordered (for example 11th of December comes out as 12/11/yyyy - even though eleven is less than twelve).

I know it is mostly tradition, but I do think that ordering the units makes more sense (although from a strictly mathematical POV, they should probably be ordered with the smallest on the right).
Imagine if half the world decided to express the time of day as mm:ss:hh.

[minor7flat5]

Originally Posted by audilover

In the military, the preferred format is DD Month YYYY.

I'm curious... Has the military updated their date standard in the last fifteen years?

I say this because when I was in, in the mid 80's, we always wrote dates as such: 01-JAN-99, with a two-digit year. No variations.
Presumably, this changed with Y2K, no?

[Hari Seldon]

Well, I follow the ISO standard and write dates as YYMMDD or YYYYMMDD because that's the same order we write numbers, most significant digit first. It also sorts corectly on a computer. So 040126 > 040126 and it is also larger than 031225 and so on.

Let me make a minor hijack and mention that this is really a "mixed base" system. Once, when I was explaining to a class (in history of math) the possibility of number bases other than 10, I also mentioned that you could use a mixed base system, for example, base 60 in the first and second place and then base 24 in the third. This is essentially how we write time, except we use base 10 notation to actually represent the other bases. Sort of how we write IP addresses which are really 4 digit numbers in base 256. Anyway, I pointed out to the class that we learn to use daily a mixed base system in which the third and higher places were in base 10, the second place was in base 12 and the first place was in base that varied from 28 to 31 according to a complicated function of the second and third places. Most, but not all, of the students eventually got it.

[Colibri]

Originally Posted by audilover

Americans don't always write it month-day-year. In the military, the preferred format is DD Month YYYY. But it can vary a little depending on the context. And if it's expressed in numbers, as it is commonly on forms, it's either MM/DD/YY or YYYYMMDD

Scientific format will also normally be DD Month YYYY: 10 July 1998, or 10 Jul 1998.

On specimen labels, however, the month is often expressed as roman numerals, to avoid having the name of the month in a specific language, while at the same time making it distinct from the day: 10-VII-1998, or 10/VII/1998.

[Popup]

Originally Posted by Colibri

Scientific format will also normally be DD Month YYYY: 10 July 1998, or 10 Jul 1998.

Yet again, that would depend on location. In the European labs I've been in, we try to follow the internationally agreed standard ISO8601, i.e. YYYY-MM-DD (2004-01-26).
However, if there is any posibility for confusion to arise, I try to write todays date as "26 jan 2004" - That's fairly culturally neutral, as in most languages the first three letters of the months are similar or identic.

[Baldwin]

I've read that some of the Founding Fathers wanted to make a deliberate break with the British traditional format. At the top of the Declaration of Independence, it says "July 4, 1776". That'll show 'em! No need to muddy the waters with logic.

[aerodave]

Originally Posted by minor7flat5

I'm curious... Has the military updated their date standard in the last fifteen years?

I say this because when I was in, in the mid 80's, we always wrote dates as such: 01-JAN-99, with a two-digit year. No variations.
Presumably, this changed with Y2K, no?

Well, You still see 26-JAN-04 plenty often. It's all usually a matter of context. The tops of letters usuall have it long ways: 26 January 2004. Forms vary a lot, but it's there that you might see 26-JAN-04 or 26 Jan 04.

The biggest rule is that there is no rule. As long as the day comes first and the month is spelled out.

Ecept when people write the date after a signature, in which case it is sometimes written 1/26/04. But around here, most people date their signatures, and even their personal checks like 26 Jan 04. That's how I write my checks. Pisses my wife off.

[Colibri]

Originally Posted by Popup

Yet again, that would depend on location. In the European labs I've been in, we try to follow the internationally agreed standard ISO8601, i.e. YYYY-MM-DD (2004-01-26).
However, if there is any posibility for confusion to arise, I try to write todays date as "26 jan 2004" - That's fairly culturally neutral, as in most languages the first three letters of the months are similar or identic.

I was mainly referring to practice in scientific journals; at least the ones I see (even European, or at least UK-based ones) usually put the year last. Perhaps journals in other fields use other standards.

As for the names of the months, well, yeah, they are often similar but there are enough differences to make some unintelligible if you don't know the language. For example, Spanish ene/enero for January; French needs four letters to distinguish between juin and juillet. What months are these in Italian: giugno luglio? And Polish? stycz. luty mar.
kwiec. maj czerw. lip. sierp. wrzes. pazdz. listop. grudz. I would hate to have to read specimen labels done by a Polish collector.