The Straight Dope

Go Back   Straight Dope Message Board > Main > The BBQ Pit

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-04-2004, 12:03 PM
alice_in_wonderland alice_in_wonderland is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
A Cosmetician’s Rant (Warning: Weak)

For those of you who purchase cosmetics – please, a few tips:

1. Red lipstick is not pigmented with cow’s blood. When I correct this misassumption for you, please refrain from rolling your eyes, or looking pityingly at me, your entire demeanor saying “She just hasn’t discovered the conspiracy yet.”

There is no conspiracy. No company uses cow blood as a pigment. They probably used FDC Red #3, seeing as how it’s much less expensive and easier to obtain.

Really. I’m not shitting you here.

2. When you ask me to help you select a foundation, I’m obliged to select one that I think will look good on you.

You are fish-belly white (I can empathize, as I too am fish-belly white), and you have acne prone skin. I can tell this because you are pale and have acne. This doesn’t make you a bad person; it just means that a tan colored foundation for a “Normal” skin is just not going to work for you, irrespective of how “Cheap” it is. It’s going to make you break out worse, and look like you’re wearing a kabuki mask.

Also, when I select a different product from the same brand that’s a more appropriate color and formulation for your skin, that also happens to be $1 more expensive than what you’ve chosen, it’s not because I’m trying to scam you. It’s because it’s a better product for your coloring and skin type. Furthermore, choosing a “tan” color foundation will not make you look tan. It will look nasty and gross. No matter how many different ways you ask the question, I will not change my answer. Tan foundation on a fish-belly white person looks bad. Also, when I suggest getting a foundation in your color and using a bronzer to add a sun-kissed glow, don’t sneer at me about “How expensive” that’s going to be. Look, it’s the middle of winter – you can probably get away without the bronzer until spring and until then you can save your pennies until you have the $6 a bronzer costs.

I will never say that tan foundation for a normal skin is a good choice for you, regardless of your outraged indignation.

3. If you have done 27 processes on your hair in the past month including highlighting, cool-aid, permanent wave, and some sort of weird sparkle thing, most recently applied last night, and you ask me which bleach you can use that wont “Fry” your hair, guess what – I can’t help you. ALL of the bleaches will fry your hair.

Further, when I tell you that I can’t recommend a bleach type product for you because there is a distinct possibility that your hair will either break or fall out should you choose to use one, it’s not because I don’t like you, or I’m trying to be mean. It’s because I don’t want you to come back in 2 days with big chunks of hair missing, or a really unfortunate color on your head.

Yes, this means that I “Really don’t want the sale.” This is because crying teenagers are really not my thing. Suggesting that you allow your hair to calm down for a few weeks is not the “Most heinous injustice in the world”, it’s a practical piece of advice.

4. Finally, for those of you who really, really want me to do a cartilage piercing with the piercing gun – piss off. Whining, wailing and whinging will not change my mind. We won’t do it. This is because the gun shatters the cartilage, which can lead to a big, disgusting, nasty infection. Look – I have a whole binder full of disgusting pictures to dissuade people such as you.

I don’t care if 3 of your friends got it done at Claire’s and had no problem. This is not Claire’s, and we will not do it.

Mom’s – be advised, you stepping up and demanding that we do it “Or else,” makes you and idiot. I am advising your daughter not to have a procedure that can be hazardous to her health. I don’t give a flying rat crap if it was supposed to be her “Birthday Present”. Fine – take her to a professional piercer who will do it with a needle. Yes, it is going to be more expensive. Tough shit.

Frankly, it’s a matter of store liability. No one at my establishment is interested in getting sued because 60% of your daughter’s ear had to be amputated.

All other inquiries are welcome.

Sincerely,

Alice,
Your humble cosmetician.
Reply With Quote
Advertisements  
  #2  
Old 02-04-2004, 12:12 PM
kung fu lola kung fu lola is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by alice_in_wonderland
For those of you who purchase cosmetics – please, a few tips:

1. Red lipstick is not pigmented with cow’s blood. When I correct this misassumption for you, please refrain from rolling your eyes, or looking pityingly at me, your entire demeanor saying “She just hasn’t discovered the conspiracy yet.”
When I worked at a jeans store, I had to regularly debunk the "Tommy Hilfiger is racist" crapola. I had people actually swear to me that they had seen him make the offending comments on Oprah with their own two eyes.

Suuuuuuuuuuuuure.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-04-2004, 12:14 PM
Bruce_Daddy Bruce_Daddy is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Ah! But what is FDC Red #3 made of? Hmmm???
__________________
Edentrap
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-04-2004, 12:16 PM
alice_in_wonderland alice_in_wonderland is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce_Daddy
Ah! But what is FDC Red #3 made of? Hmmm???
Well, it's certainly not cow's blood, anyway.
__________________
Us doormats and dumbasses who believe in civilized society need more of your advice, O Bitch Queen! - Ensign Edison
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-04-2004, 12:22 PM
liirogue liirogue is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Hey alice, you don't happen in live around Oklahoma, do ya? I'm lookin' for an honest cosmetician in the area...

(And we Okies aren't as stupid as the people you described )
__________________
"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." Einstein

WMD: Weapons of Mouse Destruction (courtesy 5cents)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-04-2004, 12:41 PM
alice_in_wonderland alice_in_wonderland is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by liirogue
Hey alice, you don't happen in live around Oklahoma, do ya? I'm lookin' for an honest cosmetician in the area...

(And we Okies aren't as stupid as the people you described )
Sorry hon, I'm in Canada, which would be a hell of a commute for cosmetics.

I'm happy to recommened brands and products here, but for colors, you're on your own.
__________________
Us doormats and dumbasses who believe in civilized society need more of your advice, O Bitch Queen! - Ensign Edison
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-04-2004, 12:52 PM
Grey Grey is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
I had no idea women nickel and dimed cosmetics like that. Then again, my sisters used to actively search for small flaws in clothing to get discounts. Scary stuff all round!

[hijack]Whatever happened to our location tags? Anyone know if they’re coming back?[/hijack]
__________________
"When they discover the centre of the universe, a lot of people will be disappointed to discover they are not it." : Bernard Bailey
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-04-2004, 01:39 PM
cuauhtemoc cuauhtemoc is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce_Daddy
Ah! But what is FDC Red #3 made of? Hmmm???
It's made of people! Soylent Red #3 is made of people!
__________________
Tonight: Manos gets caught in a deadly game of Cat and Mouse...
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-04-2004, 01:41 PM
Kalhoun Kalhoun is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
I know they say that cosmetics are a big rip off, and that the cheap stuff is as good as the expensive stuff. In some cases, I think it's true. But I swear, when I ask a beautiful woman which brand she uses, they invariably say it's one of the expensive ones. It really DOES make a difference. Cheap make-up looks teen-ager-y.
__________________
The poster formerly known as "EchoKitty"
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-04-2004, 02:03 PM
Indygrrl Indygrrl is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Yeah, cosmetics and haircuts are two things I don't pinch pennies on. Of course, some cheaper items are just as good, but when you're talking about foundation and lipstick you really can't scrimp and look good.
__________________
"In a nation ruled by swine, all pigs are upward mobile."
Hunter S. Thompson
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-04-2004, 02:04 PM
Dung Beetle Dung Beetle is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 13,056
Re: cheap makeup

Thank God I need so little of it to enhance my goddess-like beauty.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-04-2004, 02:33 PM
alice_in_wonderland alice_in_wonderland is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
There are some people in the world that are blessed with really perfect skin. They can put the cheapest crap they want on their face and it still stays smooth and clear. These people number in the amount of 2. In the whole world.

For everyone else, it makes a difference.

You complement my skin. You notice how fresh and clean it looks. You ask what I use. I tell you and you sneer "Well, anyone could have good skin if they spent THAT much on products."

Yes, that is correct. Anyone could - so shut your damn mouth with your complaints. If you're too cheap to by good quality products, then you're not allowed to complain about how the cheap ones don't work as well.

And don't give me some lame-ass arguement about "I'm a student!" or "I'm a single mom!" or whatever. Sometimes the difference between the cheapest product and a much better one is $2. This is a product that will last 2-3 months if used correctly. Assuming you can afford cosmetics at all, you can scrape together 1/3 of a cent a day to get something that's not going to look crappy and make you break out.
__________________
Us doormats and dumbasses who believe in civilized society need more of your advice, O Bitch Queen! - Ensign Edison
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-04-2004, 02:37 PM
lezlers lezlers is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
I used to work for Clinique and they told us (on the sly of course, don't want to lose sales!) that foundation, powder and lipstick you should always buy at a counter, but mascara and eyeliner were pretty much exactly the same as the drugstore brands.

I forget about eyeshadow, though. I pretty much stick to that rule of thumb, except for when I'm exceptionally poor.

And I used to work at Claire's and we'd use the gun for cartilage peircings. But then again, Claire's is the evil empire, so the fact that they'd do something dangerous in order to make money doesn't suprise me in the least.
__________________
Thou sayest, motherfucker. Thou sayest - The Onion
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-04-2004, 02:46 PM
lezlers lezlers is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by alice_in_wonderland
And don't give me some lame-ass arguement about "I'm a student!" or "I'm a single mom!" or whatever. Sometimes the difference between the cheapest product and a much better one is $2. This is a product that will last 2-3 months if used correctly. Assuming you can afford cosmetics at all, you can scrape together 1/3 of a cent a day to get something that's not going to look crappy and make you break out.
I should move to Canada. If that were the only difference here in the States, I'd buy nothing but counter stuff. The difference here is more like $6 for drugstore foundation vs. $20 for counter foundation.

For someone like myself that likes to experiment with different colored eye shadows and liners, that much of a price difference tends to add up, which is why I'd tell people to go with expensive foundation, blush and lipstick, but go to the drugstore for the other stuff. Trust me, my eyes look the same now that I wear Revlon eyeshadow and mascara as they did when I wore Chanel. And it's a HUGE price difference.

I'm with you on the quality foundation though. That's why I always buy the more expensive stuff.
__________________
Thou sayest, motherfucker. Thou sayest - The Onion
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-04-2004, 02:57 PM
Miss Gretchen Miss Gretchen is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 1999
Quote:
Originally Posted by alice_in_wonderland
For those of you who purchase cosmetics – please, a few tips:

(snip, snip, snip)

Mom’s – be advised, you stepping up and demanding that we do it “Or else,” makes you and idiot.
All other inquiries are welcome.

Sincerely,

Alice,
Your humble cosmetician.
Or else what? Are they gonna jump over the counter, brandish the ear ring gun and start piercing indiscriminately? Sheesh.
SDMB "Insane customers and other people in general who are insane" threads still blow my mind. I simply can't imagine dealing with people with such complete disrepect and contempt. Yikes.

Oh yeah, the forbidding of tan foundation on ghostly white skin: Preach it, sister! Especially when the foundation ends abruptly in a ruler sharp line at the jawline. Claaaasssy!
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-04-2004, 02:58 PM
Dung Beetle Dung Beetle is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 13,056
Quote:
I should move to Canada. If that were the only difference here in the States, I'd buy nothing but counter stuff. The difference here is more like $6 for drugstore foundation vs. $20 for counter foundation.
Aha! I was puzzling over that as well.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-04-2004, 04:18 PM
alice_in_wonderland alice_in_wonderland is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Well, to clarify prices (and to assure you that you probably DON'T want to move up North:

For foundation (ie - liquid, in a bottle) we sell Cover Girl (the brand pale acne girl wanted) for about $10.50 a bottle (case). The Cover Girl product I was trying to steer her towards was $11.75 a bottle (case).

My store also sells Marcelle (which is a Canadian company - I don't think they have distribution in the US). For the same sized bottle, Marcelle is about $14. ($2.25 more). It is an excellent product for those with acne prone skin as it is totally free of fragrance, additives, etc. It's also an excellent product for those with sensitive skin for the same reasons. Additionally, it provides nice coverage and feels better on the skin than CG.

I don't have any foundations that are $6 a bottle. I have pressed powders starting at about $4. The brand is NYC. The quality is, well, you can imagine the quality - you get what you pay for.

Regarding counter brands being $20 - I wish. I use Elizabeth Arden, which is $34. We also sell Iman which is $30, Lise Wattier (also Canadian) which is $26 and Lancome which is $40.

Regular old Loreal is $22-$24.

Trust me - Canada is not the home of cheap cosmetics, sadly.

All that being said, there are other, less expensive options (such as tinted moisturizers, concealer with dusting powder, etc) that result in a nice finish, and I can certainly respect people trying to budget. However, if you ask for advice, don't get cranky when you don't like the answer or the price of the items suggest.

Another one of my faves is "Ooo, I love that eye-shadow you're wearing - I want that exact shade!" So you get the product, tell them the price ($18) and they balk. Ok, so you show them 7 other, less expensive products in very similar shades and they object becasue they're not IDENTICAL. Listen lady, if you want identical, pony up the $18. Otherwise, bite me.
__________________
Us doormats and dumbasses who believe in civilized society need more of your advice, O Bitch Queen! - Ensign Edison
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-04-2004, 05:42 PM
liirogue liirogue is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
You're talking Candian money though, aren't you? If it's $1 Canadian isn't it like $1.5 US, or summat?
__________________
"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." Einstein

WMD: Weapons of Mouse Destruction (courtesy 5cents)
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-04-2004, 05:52 PM
alice_in_wonderland alice_in_wonderland is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by liirogue
You're talking Candian money though, aren't you? If it's $1 Canadian isn't it like $1.5 US, or summat?
It's currently about $1.30 - so, the Lancome foundation would be about $30.
__________________
Us doormats and dumbasses who believe in civilized society need more of your advice, O Bitch Queen! - Ensign Edison
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-04-2004, 05:56 PM
BiblioCat BiblioCat is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by lezlers
I used to work for Clinique and they told us (on the sly of course, don't want to lose sales!) that foundation, powder and lipstick you should always buy at a counter, but mascara and eyeliner were pretty much exactly the same as the drugstore brands.
I used to use Cover Girl and Maybelline, and cheap drug-store stuff, exclusively. Then I started to break out, and I'd [b]never[/b[ had acne. I went to a dermatologist and she told me to use Clinique-brand products, because they were hypoallergenic and the best for sensitive skin.
I've been a loyal Clinique customer (for foundation and blush) ever since.
I still buy the old stand-by Maybelline mascara in the pink and green tube, though.
__________________
I'm not great at the advice. Can I interest you in a sarcastic comment?
"I tried doing that once, making every minute count. It gave me a headache." - Adrian Monk
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 02-04-2004, 06:04 PM
Guinastasia Guinastasia is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
All right, I use Cover Girl Professional Loose Powder in "translucent fair", as I have a very pale complexion. I've heard that loose powder is better for one's skin than pressed. Know anything about that particular item?

The best lipstick I can afford is around 8 or 9 bucks. I think it's Revlon ColorStay.

What about blush? I like cream blush myself, any advice on blush?
__________________
If the shoe fits, buy it in every color.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 02-04-2004, 06:34 PM
alice_in_wonderland alice_in_wonderland is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinastasia
All right, I use Cover Girl Professional Loose Powder in "translucent fair", as I have a very pale complexion. I've heard that loose powder is better for one's skin than pressed. Know anything about that particular item?

The best lipstick I can afford is around 8 or 9 bucks. I think it's Revlon ColorStay.

What about blush? I like cream blush myself, any advice on blush?
"Better for one's skin" is sort of hard to answer - it depends on the skin in question.

The best way for me to answer the question is this:

If you love your skin - If you're happy with the way it looks and feels - If you don't worry about breakouts (with the exception of the occasional hormonal thing), then you're using the right product for you.

Loose powders go on a little heavier (you get more on a brush), so they provide slightly more oil absorption - if you tend to get shiney, or if you have an oily skin, excellent. For a dry skin, not so good.

Pressed powders typically have more color - concealer and pressed powder is an excellent "foundation" for many - particularly young women/girls that want a "natural look.

Older persons, or those with fine lines (from sun damage or illness) should avoid all powders, as they settle in the lines and emphasize them.

For a young woman such as yourself, a covergirl or revlon lipstick is perfectly ok - I have some from both companies and like them quite well. When you get older, you may have to switch to something different as the lips can thin and product can feather which requires more than color application to fix.

Blush - choose a shade that is similar to what you look like when you ACTUALLY blush. Secondly - use it really sparingly - heavy blush looks bad on just about everyone (well, except supermodels doing runway shows - I'm assuming that's not what you're asking about here). As far as brands go, blush is the sort of thing you can go cheap on.

The items I suggest splurging on are:

Foundation - get the best you can afford in the best formulation for your skin type
Eye products - they're going around your eyes - cheaper is probably not better. (I'm particularly thinking mascara here, but the same can apply to shadows - I've used some cheap ones in the past and had problems with both my eyes and the skin surrounding my eyes)
Cleansing and moisturizing - the most important for your overall skin health.
__________________
Us doormats and dumbasses who believe in civilized society need more of your advice, O Bitch Queen! - Ensign Edison
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 02-04-2004, 06:42 PM
lezlers lezlers is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Ah, well that explains it, kinda. Cover Girl, Maybelline, Max Factor and Revlon are all drug store brands here. You can't buy them in a department store. $20 is what Clinique charges for foundation, I believe Elizabeth Arden, Lancome and some of the other brands you mentioned are more expensive. They usually range between $20-$50. Clinique is generally the cheapest counter brand.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinastasia
All right, I use Cover Girl Professional Loose Powder in "translucent fair", as I have a very pale complexion. I've heard that loose powder is better for one's skin than pressed. Know anything about that particular item?

The best lipstick I can afford is around 8 or 9 bucks. I think it's Revlon ColorStay.

What about blush? I like cream blush myself, any advice on blush?
I know you're probably not asking me, but I'm gonna answer anyway. Cream blushes are becoming really popular so almost all brands carry them now. Clinique's got a good one, retails for about 12 bucks, IIRC. I use BeneTint by Benefit. It's AWESOME. It's a sheer, liquid blush. It's red, so you can wear it with anything, makes you look like you're just naturally flushed. I love it because if I don't have some serious blush on, I tend to look like a corpse. You can also use it on your lips, but it's always dried mine out.

As far as powder goes, I use loose powder in the morning, to set my foundation, then use a compact throughout the day. I have really oily skin, and it works pretty well for me. I'll also use toilet seat covers (yes, you read me) before I put on compact powder, to blot excess oil. It's the same paper they sell for that specific purpose.

Except it's free.
__________________
Thou sayest, motherfucker. Thou sayest - The Onion
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 02-04-2004, 06:43 PM
dwyr dwyr is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Just outside the group
Posts: 2,593
Red could be beetles though.


Very tasty.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 02-04-2004, 06:50 PM
alice_in_wonderland alice_in_wonderland is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwyr
Red could be beetles though.


Very tasty.
And many companies still use animal products to make their lipsticks - cow's blood just doesn't happen to be one of them.

The best part of this lady's opinion was that only red lipsticks were bad - a beige or orange was fine, because the companies would use normal colorants for them.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
__________________
Us doormats and dumbasses who believe in civilized society need more of your advice, O Bitch Queen! - Ensign Edison
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 02-04-2004, 06:53 PM
alice_in_wonderland alice_in_wonderland is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Damn I keep forgetting to uncheck my signature!

BAH!
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 02-04-2004, 07:31 PM
GingerOfTheNorth GingerOfTheNorth is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2001
This strikes me as a very Canadian thread. Someone got upset, and we end up bonding. Now all we need is Tim's!

Alice, you are most lovely and I miss you very much.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 02-04-2004, 07:34 PM
Katriona Katriona is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by alice_in_wonderland
For those of you who purchase cosmetics – please, a few tips:

[

2. When you ask me to help you select a foundation, I’m obliged to select one that I think will look good on you.

You are fish-belly white (I can empathize, as I too am fish-belly white), and you have acne prone skin. I can tell this because you are pale and have acne. This doesn’t make you a bad person; it just means that a tan colored foundation for a “Normal” skin is just not going to work for you, irrespective of how “Cheap” it is. It’s going to make you break out worse, and look like you’re wearing a kabuki mask.

Also, when I select a different product from the same brand that’s a more appropriate color and formulation for your skin, that also happens to be $1 more expensive than what you’ve chosen, it’s not because I’m trying to scam you. It’s because it’s a better product for your coloring and skin type. Furthermore, choosing a “tan” color foundation will not make you look tan. It will look nasty and gross. No matter how many different ways you ask the question, I will not change my answer. Tan foundation on a fish-belly white person looks bad. Also, when I suggest getting a foundation in your color and using a bronzer to add a sun-kissed glow, don’t sneer at me about “How expensive” that’s going to be. Look, it’s the middle of winter – you can probably get away without the bronzer until spring and until then you can save your pennies until you have the $6 a bronzer costs.
As a fellow fish-belly white type, thank you. I spent my teenage years in the 80's being sold too-dark or too-pink foundations, "Because you need some color!" And they'd look at me funny when I said I thought that's what blush was for! I was an addict at a young age.

Guin, if you're in the US, Target's Sonia Kashuk line has some nice cream blush sticks, and IIRC, the brand is on sale this week. On the high end, Paula Dorf's cream blush pots are nice, and the Nars sticks.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 02-04-2004, 07:47 PM
Guinastasia Guinastasia is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Oooh, thanks for the tip!

I've been using a Cover Girl cream blush (or was it Revlon?) and cream shadow as well. I believe the shade is "Skin Light", a very subtle one. Unfortunately, I've run out.

I have oily skin, so a pressed powder works-I don't like putting a lot of stuff on my face, just enough to give me color.

Well, except for silver glitter occassionally.

According to Cecil, lipstick DOES contain fish scales.
__________________
If the shoe fits, buy it in every color.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 02-04-2004, 09:55 PM
CanvasShoes CanvasShoes is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Nearly Mile High
Posts: 9,182
Do you HAVE to use foundation and powder? I have really clear skin, and so far, it's not too wrinkly either.

My "trouble" spots are my eyes, they're, IMO, too small, so when I use makeup, I spend most of my time and money on eye makeup.

The only real trouble spot I have with my skin, is my chin, it's kindof reddish, though it's smooth and clear, no blemishes or ruddiness, just looks a bit 'blushy".

If it's really hot, and I'm going out on a special outing, I do the whole foundation/powder thing, but should we wear it all the time???
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 02-04-2004, 10:14 PM
alice_in_wonderland alice_in_wonderland is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by GingerOfTheNorth
Alice, you are most lovely and I miss you very much.
This is by far the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me. Really. I miss you too.

[b]Canvas - you don't need to wear anything - if you have a lovely smooth skin, leave it bare(except for sunscreen, of course).

For special occasions you could use a tinted moisturizer - it will give a polished look without looking quite so "made up." For someone who is usually natural doing the "full meal deal" can feel and look a bit too... something.
__________________
Us doormats and dumbasses who believe in civilized society need more of your advice, O Bitch Queen! - Ensign Edison
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 02-04-2004, 10:16 PM
Silver Serpentine Silver Serpentine is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Quote:
There are some people in the world that are blessed with really perfect skin. They can put the cheapest crap they want on their face and it still stays smooth and clear. These people number in the amount of 2. In the whole world.
Ummmm . . . That'd be me. I haven't had a zit since 8th grade. Using NYC liquid or powder (when I used something on my skin). No problems.

My face is slightly dry at my jawline near my ear, and shiney on the end of my nose. For about an hour after I get out of the shower.

I've actually had people come up to me and ask what makeup I'm wearing. When I tell them nothing, I can almost feel the glare as they say, "Lucky you."

Also, my eyebrows don't need to be plucked.



Ahem. Back to makeup. I love Almay eyeliner. The self-sharpening kind. Used to wear Wet&Wild, but it'd always blur and smear by the end of the day, which is a big deal when you wear as much eyeliner as I do, heh.

Don't wear lipstick. Can NOT find a good shade. Anywhere. Ever.
__________________
The beast what squeeks.

-Irish - Austin, TX
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 02-04-2004, 10:27 PM
alice_in_wonderland alice_in_wonderland is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnimistDragon
Ummmm . . . That'd be me. I haven't had a zit since 8th grade. Using NYC liquid or powder (when I used something on my skin). No problems.

My face is slightly dry at my jawline near my ear, and shiney on the end of my nose. For about an hour after I get out of the shower.

I've actually had people come up to me and ask what makeup I'm wearing. When I tell them nothing, I can almost feel the glare as they say, "Lucky you."

Also, my eyebrows don't need to be plucked.



Ahem. Back to makeup. I love Almay eyeliner. The self-sharpening kind. Used to wear Wet&Wild, but it'd always blur and smear by the end of the day, which is a big deal when you wear as much eyeliner as I do, heh.

Don't wear lipstick. Can NOT find a good shade. Anywhere. Ever.
Lucky you!

About 2% of grown women have "normal" skin. You're one, and actually, I'm one as well.

The only thing I will say is make sure you wear sun-screen. It sucks to have lovely smooth skin, go skiing, and wake up the next day with a sun-stash.

Not that I would know anything about that. (And yes I was wearing sunscreen - apparently the SPF wasn't quite high enough. )

Additionally, if you deeply want color on your lips, you could try a sheer lip tint - a bit more forgiving in the color department. Obviously, if you don't care about lip color, wear nothing and enjoy not having to worry to reapply.
__________________
Us doormats and dumbasses who believe in civilized society need more of your advice, O Bitch Queen! - Ensign Edison
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 02-04-2004, 11:27 PM
Silver Serpentine Silver Serpentine is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
We should start a club. Sit around and not talk about our skin. Or something.

And oh yes oh yes, I wear sunscreen. I'm pale, and I like it that way. SPF as high as I can find it. Going to the zoo, to a park, in the car for more than an hour in a day, and I'm wearing sunblock.

I don't worry too much about lip color anymore. I've gone 20 years without it so far, so it's not a big deal. "Gussied up" involves slightly shimmery mint lipgloss. I smoke, so color comes off way too quickly. Plus, I've actually grown to love the color of my lips naturally. Nice soft pink. `Course, that means I think most women look better without lipstick now, but oh well.
__________________
The beast what squeeks.

-Irish - Austin, TX
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 02-04-2004, 11:50 PM
alice_in_wonderland alice_in_wonderland is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnimistDragon
I smoke, so color comes off way too quickly.
Ahem. The cosmetician in me is compelled to point out that apart from sun exposure, smoking is probably the fastest way to prematurely age your skin. It's nasty, and leaves a yucky film on there.

Really, you should quit RIGHT THIS SECOND; however, I was young once - you can smoke for 2 more years and then you have to quit*. Really. You'll thank me when you're 40 and STILL have smooth lovely skin like a baby. Really.

[/preach mode off]

Anyhow - you might like to try Elizabeth Arden's Eight Hour Cream Lip Protectant Stick. It comes in 5 sheer tints, and has an SPF of 15 - reapply often at the Zoo, garden, skiing, particularly if you're eating or smoking. It feels really nice, moisturizes and wears very well.


*for cosmetic purposes only
__________________
Us doormats and dumbasses who believe in civilized society need more of your advice, O Bitch Queen! - Ensign Edison
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 02-05-2004, 12:49 AM
Astra Astra is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
I'm taking notes on this thread.

I'm a fellow pale-as-a-ghost girl with a tacklebox full of makeup from every cheap brand out there (and a few expensive items I caught on sale). My biggest weakness is eyeshadow. I probably have 30 pots of Jane eyeshadow (I get it for around 50 cents at a local salvage store, yay).

My biggest problem is that I have very oily skin everywhere but my nose - my nose is very dry. I've tried using moisturizer on my nose and then applying powder, but the powder just lumps up and makes my skin look uneven and peely. Only on the nose though. I rarely wear foundation, but it makes such a difference in evening out the redder areas of my face. If it weren't such a hassle I'd wear it more often. Any suggestions?

My other problem is that I can't make eyeliner last. It looks great when I first put it on, but then migrates until I look like the living dead.

My favorite product is the purple iridescent eyeshadow I got from the now-defunct Skinmarket store. Gorgeous stuff.
__________________
This has been another...
USELESS POST.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 02-05-2004, 01:11 AM
amarinth amarinth is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Emerald City, WA, USA
Posts: 8,378
I'm sorry, but I'm going to end the lovefest.

I don't tend to trust cosmeticians....I have had so many flat out lie to me, that I (possibly unfairly) put them at the same level as used car salesmen.

I have had so many pick out shades that were simply hideous and insist that it looked wonderful (usually because they had nothing that would match my skin tone - but they wanted to make the sale), when in fact it looked like I had a skin disease. ("No, my skin was not gray until you put that foundation on." or "Oh good, now I look like I have a drinking problem thanks to the crap you just put on my nose. That you say just goes on my nose and nowhere else") I have been painted like a clown in various makeovers, apparently, the thinking being that I have dark skin so the makeup must be applied by a trowel so it shows up.

I have had enough "questionable" experiences at the cosmetics counter that I'm skeptical when I walk up. I'll pay if I believe you ($85 for foundation that matched...and it really did match). I just don't like paying that much money for something that will look like crap when I take it home. And too many people have tried to get me to do exactly that.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 02-05-2004, 07:37 AM
Horrifying Howler Monkey Horrifying Howler Monkey is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
I'm 24 years old, and I have never gotten the hang of buying cosmetics. Once I managed to buy CG liquid foundation that looked good, total luck, any other time I have tried it has either been too pale or too orange. What part of you are you supposed to colour match to? My face is not all one colour. Someone told me the inside of your wrist, that was the time the colour was too pale.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 02-05-2004, 07:41 AM
CheekyMonkey613 CheekyMonkey613 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magayuk
What part of you are you supposed to colour match to? My face is not all one colour. Someone told me the inside of your wrist, that was the time the colour was too pale.
Maybe Alice will be along to help out. In the meantime, the guy at the MAC counter told me to match the foundation to the skin colour right under my chin. Also, I was told most caucasians should be looking at a foundation in the yellows, not the pinks. Works great for me.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 02-05-2004, 10:42 AM
alice_in_wonderland alice_in_wonderland is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by amarinth
I'm sorry, but I'm going to end the lovefest.

I have been painted like a clown in various makeovers, apparently, the thinking being that I have dark skin so the makeup must be applied by a trowel so it shows up.
Well, in defense of my profession (but not the boneheas you've seen in the past) generally, the bulk of cosmetic manufacturers seem to think that everyone, everywhere is a shade of fishbelly white, or that they are "tan." Obviously this doesn't excuse people for trying to sell you stuff that doesn't work for you - that's just obnoxious; but, some of us really just want our customers to be happy and look nice. Honestly, I sell so much stuff (little stuff, $4 nail polishes, files, lip glosses, hair dies, etc), that I make a good commission anyway without selling big ticket foundation items. However, I don't have sales quotas and I get paid a good base wage - sometimes at department stores the women are under huge pressure to sell and some will sell crap just to get the transaction. I find these people obnoxious. I'm not one of them. Ahem.

For a darker complexion, I like Iman (as in David Bowie's lovely wive, Iman). Her products are specifically designed for women of color and her foundations come in shades that have both golden undertones typically good for many African/Jamacian complexions, as well as greyer undertones which work well for Indian complexions. Some Latina women can wear her lightest or second lightest color in the gold range (or darker if they're tanned, I suppose).


Magayuk - don't feel bad - choosing a foundation color for yourself is very, very difficult. Generally, I like to try to match the darker part of a woman's face, unless it's MUCH darker than the lightest bit. If there is a big difference in tones, I will show the woman both the darkest (about 1/2 shade lighter) as well a the lightest (about 1/2 shade darker) and let her choose. Most women with darker complexions prefer the lighter look, and most with lighter complexions prefer the darker look - go figure.

Additionally, match the "white" part of your face - I always cringe when a gal comes in with pink foundation on becasue she was matching the rosy part of her cheeks - eek!

Basically, you'll need to experiment a bit. Most of the cheap (inexpensive?) companies don't provide testers and unless your store of choice elects to open a product for you to try, it's almost impossible to select a good color without trying it on. Save your pennies and opt for a slightly more expensive product that you can try in the store. The cosmetician should give you q-tips/sponges for you to try with as well as providing a space with a brightly lit mirror so you can check the color - if she (he) doesn't, go elsewhere. Additionally, ask this person for there opinion - they'll usually be able to be more impartial when it comes to color selection.

Finally, if they suggest a different brand or product, at least try it, even if it is a bit more expensive. Many times the formulation of a particular brand works better for certain skin types/colors.

Which brings me to Astra:

Firstly, make sure you're cleansing and moisturizing you face with appropriate products. Do you break out? If not (if you're just oily), I like Biopur by Biotherm - it's somewhat expensive (but not outrageous), and it's excellent to help control oil. Something to keep in mind - even oily skins need moisture - not oil, but water. Applying a moisturizer will make a nice base for whatever cosmetic products you want to try. I would use the oil control product all over your face except your nose, and then get a light moisturizer for the nose area. If it makes you feel better, you're not the only person I've met with this skin combination.

Regarding a foundation, for an oilier skin, a cream to powder is a nice choice, but shop around. Some of them are quite greasy - not a great choice for an oilier skin. Generally the types that are wet/dry work well on an oilyer skin - try them dry first to get a nice, light surface. For more coverage, wet the sponge.

Regarding color choice, make sure you're cleansed and moisturized when you're choosing and follow the steps I outlined above. The cosmetician should help you - if she (he) offers to show you a product, check it out. Remember, cosmeticians have skin types too, and there's the chance that her's is the same as yours.

When selecting a product, feel is as important as color - try it on - it should really feel like you're aren't wearing anything - this is one of the key differences between the cheap vs. more expensive brands.

Finally, and most importantly, if you feel like the person is pushing something or isn't listening to your concerns, leave. Really. Shop elsewhere.
__________________
Us doormats and dumbasses who believe in civilized society need more of your advice, O Bitch Queen! - Ensign Edison
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 02-05-2004, 10:47 AM
alice_in_wonderland alice_in_wonderland is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
amarinth, I wanted to add that a lot of times if you get a "makeover", the person is trying to show off their Phat Cosmetic SkillzTM- YO! Unfortunatly, this means you wind up looking like either a) a clown, b) a hooker, or c) like a makeup kit threw up on your face.

Trust me, I've been there.

If you were to decide that you wanted to give a cosmitician another try, you can a) find a store that carries brands you like, and b) book at a quiet time for "A nice, easy day look."

Generally "nice easy day look" means something very different than "makeover."

You should wind up with something more subtle that you might actually want to duplicate.
__________________
Us doormats and dumbasses who believe in civilized society need more of your advice, O Bitch Queen! - Ensign Edison
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 02-05-2004, 01:00 PM
Spiff Spiff is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: In the SPIFF Bunker
Posts: 2,566
Quote:
Originally Posted by alice_in_wonderland
No one at my establishment is interested in getting sued because 60% of your daughter’s ear had to be amputated.
But Alice, don't you know that amputation is the next what can I do to my teen-age body to piss off my parents and assert my independence by being exactly like my friends fad.

Piercings and tattoos are so passé ...

But on a serious note, I'd like to take issue with your statement that only 2% of women have "normal" skin.

Sorry, but I'm gonna take the hard Feminist LineTM on that one and call you out for implying that 98% of women have "abnormal" skin that needs "treatment," i.e., cosmetics.

No.

Your skin is fine. Really, it is. Step away from the checkout-lane magazine rack and throw out the Glamour and the Cosmo on your coffee table.

Stop buying into the bullshit that skin in its natural state is somehow defective and needs to be "fixed" with cosmetics in order to be attractive.

Alice's advice on using sunscreen to save your skin from premature aging is fine. Follow it.

But will she tell you that slopping cosmetics on your cheeks every day for unmpteen years will damage your skin? Why not?
__________________
"Immigrants! That's all they do, you know. Just driving around listening to the raps and shooting all the jobs."
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 02-05-2004, 01:00 PM
zweisamkeit zweisamkeit is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Okay, this is a question and a rant (so not too much of a hijack).

I have this weird skin that really pisses me off. I can't apply foundation or my skin flakes up horribly. No matter how much I moisturise, or what kind of moisturiser I use, I've never been able to get foundation to just apply nice. It turns my skin into flake-city. That, and I'm also slightly oily enough to get zits.

Right now I'm trying to use Clinique (the yellow soap bar, the light cleansing lotion, and once a week the 'daily' scrub, then following up with the yellow lotion); I didn't splurge on these as I don't really have money (if I knew they worked, I might, but I'm not shelling out that money to experiment). My skin still does the same thing.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 02-05-2004, 01:07 PM
BiblioCat BiblioCat is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by alice_in_wonderland
.... show off their Phat Cosmetic SkillzTM- YO! Unfortunatly, this means you wind up looking like either a) a clown, b) a hooker, or c) like a makeup kit threw up on your face.
Just cuz that's so funny, it bears repeating.

My turn, my turn!
I hate lipstick, because it feels so, well, lipsticky. I hate that gloppy, gooey feeling.
I do like Chapstick and am addicted to Burt's Bee's lip balm, and things like that, very light-feeling stuff. I always have a couple tubes of various brands of lip balm in every coat pocket and in my car.
I want some light color, but not bright red hooker lipstick.
What do you recommend? I'm willing to spend some money, but not $50 for a tube of lipstick.
__________________
I'm not great at the advice. Can I interest you in a sarcastic comment?
"I tried doing that once, making every minute count. It gave me a headache." - Adrian Monk
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 02-05-2004, 01:29 PM
alice_in_wonderland alice_in_wonderland is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiff
But on a serious note, I'd like to take issue with your statement that only 2% of women have "normal" skin.
Spiff - "normal" skin is defined as being not oily and not dry, and not having oily or dry patches - but just being the right degree of moisture throughout. Obviously, if only 2% of women have this skin type, it's not "normal," it's "abnormal. However, "normal" is the term that both cosmeticians AND dermatologists use.

Quote:
Sorry, but I'm gonna take the hard Feminist LineTM on that one and call you out for implying that 98% of women have "abnormal" skin that needs "treatment," i.e., cosmetics.
I was implying nothing of the sort, and have repeatedly said that if a person is happy with their skin using nothing, they should use nothing.

Quote:
Your skin is fine. Really, it is. Step away from the checkout-lane magazine rack and throw out the Glamour and the Cosmo on your coffee table.

Stop buying into the bullshit that skin in its natural state is somehow defective and needs to be "fixed" with cosmetics in order to be attractive.
Listen cookie, if you're "fine" with having cystic acne that aches and bleeds and forever scars your skin, or "fine" with having skin that cracks and feels tight and aches with dryness, then by all means do so. However, your implication that ALL women should be "fine" with their skin, irrespective of it's condition is farcical. I believe YOU'RE the one being rather narrow in your view.

Quote:
But will she tell you that slopping cosmetics on your cheeks every day for unmpteen years will damage your skin? Why not?
No, I won't, because it isn't true. If you would like to provide a cite that proves otherwise, I will be happy to read it.

Moisturizing and taking care of your skin is never bad for it. Furthermore, "Look Good, Feel Better" has rather conclusively proven that for some women, using cosmetics can improve their overall health, as well as speeding healing from disease.

Finally, bite me. If you don't like cosmetics don't use them, but don't you dare come into my thread condemning those of us who do like them, and do use them and expect to get away with it. It's obnoxious in the extreme. Next you’ll be criticizing those of us who like to shave our legs.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 02-05-2004, 01:38 PM
alice_in_wonderland alice_in_wonderland is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by zweisamkeit
I have this weird skin that really pisses me off. I can't apply foundation or my skin flakes up horribly. No matter how much I moisturise, or what kind of moisturiser I use, I've never been able to get foundation to just apply nice. It turns my skin into flake-city. That, and I'm also slightly oily enough to get zits.

Right now I'm trying to use Clinique (the yellow soap bar, the light cleansing lotion, and once a week the 'daily' scrub, then following up with the yellow lotion); I didn't splurge on these as I don't really have money (if I knew they worked, I might, but I'm not shelling out that money to experiment). My skin still does the same thing.
What kind of foundation are you using? There are different types that work with different skins.

Also, zits don't necessarily come from having oily skin - those with dry skins, combination skins and normal skins can still get pimples. Some people have sensitivity to environmental polution (smoke, smog, recirculated air, etc.) which can cause them to break out, even with a dry skin, for instance.

Secondly, Clinique is a nice brand and has some good products BUT it doesn't work for everyone - I have normal skin and have been told by a Clinique rep that their Clinique does not have products for my skin type. Really. (Which I was rather surprised at - I think perhaps she was new.) Anyhow - how long have you been using it? Generally you have to give things at least a few weeks before you can expect to see an improvement. If after 4 - 6 weeks of use there's still no difference, then Clinique is not the brand for you.

Regarding shelling out to experiment - never do this! Any reputable store will give you enough product to try for a week or so to see if you like it. For people that have troubled skin (bad acne, typically) I won't sell the product to them until I've given them samples to try to make sure they're not going to exacerbate the problem. Additionally, if someone does purchase something and has an adverse reaction, I will always either exchange it for another product, or refund their money completely. This is standard OP - if a counter or store does not offer this, I wouldn't purchase from them.

But - what sort of foundation are you using?
__________________
Us doormats and dumbasses who believe in civilized society need more of your advice, O Bitch Queen! - Ensign Edison
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 02-05-2004, 05:25 PM
zweisamkeit zweisamkeit is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Well, alice, I don't really use foundation since I generally see it as futile. Not only do I have the flaky skin, but I'm pale as pale can be.

What I've tried: Jane (hahahahahaha! I have tiny pores and it made my face look like crater city! Plus their lightest shade was dark orange on me in the summer), CoverGirl (too dark), Revlon Pro (the shade was okayish), Elizabeth Arden (too dark) and Clinique (too dark). All of those made my skin flake. The upper end ones were slightly less annoying, but there still was flaking. I've heard good things about MAC foundation though...
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 02-05-2004, 05:36 PM
BiblioCat BiblioCat is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by zweisamkeit
... Not only do I have the flaky skin, but I'm pale as pale can be.
... and Clinique (too dark). ..
I'm pale, too, not fish-belly white, but very fair. I freckle and burn in the sun, and always have a problem with foundations looking too dark or fake-tannish.
I use Clinique's Stay True line, the "01 - Stay Ivory" color. It's great; not too dark at all.
I also use their yellow moisturizer on my dry spots.
__________________
I'm not great at the advice. Can I interest you in a sarcastic comment?
"I tried doing that once, making every minute count. It gave me a headache." - Adrian Monk
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 02-05-2004, 11:13 PM
LifeOnWry LifeOnWry is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
I never have any luck at cosmetic counters. Sigh.

I have olive skin. Very mediterranean coloring all around, actually. For some reason, every cosmetician I have ever encountered either tries to sell me foundation for pale-skinned black women "because you're so DARK" or they try to sell me something ivory "to even out the sallow undertones." I had to laugh when I took home a sample of a very expensive foundation. The color was "clair buff" and I thought it was too pale in the store, but decided to get a look at it in my home mirror. It was like chalk. I later got a call from a friend who is a fish-belly-white blonde, saying she was delighted because she'd finally found the perfect foundation - "clair buff." I've decided that we olive-skinned people are doomed to be foundationless.

Why is it bad to pierce cartilage with a piercing gun? This has been a very "in" thing around here for quite some time, I've never heard of anyone having problems. I need to know, because I just told my daughter I'd take her to do it... for her birthday! I do not want to be a bad mom.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 02-06-2004, 12:11 AM
alice_in_wonderland alice_in_wonderland is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeOnWry
Why is it bad to pierce cartilage with a piercing gun?
The piercing gun generates a lot of force when it fires out the earring. For a fleshy lobe, this is not a big problem. However, cartilage is hard - it will shatter from the pressure. Then pieces of cartilage can sort of migrate around the area and the hole wont heal properly. Unproperly healed holes can let bacteria in. Bacteria can, of course, lead to nasty infection.

I've seen so many young girls come in with hideous infection in a cartilage piercing which appeared overnight (fine at bedtime, swolen, black and pusy by morning). These people are looking for antibacterial clensers and creams to try to save their piercing - they almost never do, and depending on the severity of the infection, part of the ear can need to be amputated.

Getting a cartilage piercing is fine - just make sure you go to a reputable piercer who uses a needle - the needle is much easier on the surrounding tissue.

It's more expensive (can be a lot more), but worth the extra money.
__________________
Us doormats and dumbasses who believe in civilized society need more of your advice, O Bitch Queen! - Ensign Edison
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@chicagoreader.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Publishers - interested in subscribing to the Straight Dope?
Write to: sdsubscriptions@chicagoreader.com.

Copyright © 2013 Sun-Times Media, LLC.