Can I polyurethane on Green wood? I'm building a cane!

Factual Questions
1

Ok, awhile back I posted a thread about making a cane for a friend who has a stroke. Well, I made one alright…looked really nice. I thought, *I’ll stain and poly it over the weekend. Well, I went down to the basement and lo and behold my nice freshly done cane had a big old crack in it.

So, here I am with a new cane, all completed; I do not want this one to crack…so can I polyurethane it now! And not wait? Are there any drawbacks to this? What could go wrong?

Thanks…BTW…I finished last night and am at work now…it was fine when I left it over night, I doubt it’ll crack in 8 hours…

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shameless bump…no one knows? Where’s Philster?

3

Bad idea. Green wood has a high moisture content. If you poly over it, you seal that moisture in and the cane will dry unevenly, then break or crack. You need to hang the cane in your garage and let nature take its course. If it cracks, start over again.

4

If you must use green wood, it will have to dry. Sometimes slowing down the drying by coating the end grain with a wax will minimize cracking. In the alternative, you could make your cane from well-seasoned wood, if your design or method of manufacture will allow.

5

Hmmm…ya kow, I always assumed you couldn’t poly over treated wood, but I’ve read various accounts on how to paint treated would and poly over it.

A number of things I’ve read hinted at minimizing exposuire to the chemicals in treated would by poly-ing over it…so it’s do-able.

Treated wood doesn’t have to be wet. I think that’s the trick in all this: to have a piece of wood treated to resist rot from weather, yet be dry to poly over it or even to paint over it.

You might want to by a wood product suitable for outdoors (untreated), treat it yourself, and proceed with poly. The treatment/preservative should contain any extra steps in the instructions as to what needs to happen between treatment and the poly or paint coat.

I’ll go back and read some links that I reference and add info if available.

6

Some woodworking lathe turners used to use PEG. I think it can be quite nasty and I’m not sure it is good for a cane. My first thought is some type of oil that would be used on boats. Here is an article on an alternative to PEG which you might check out and see if it is available in your area.

7

Hmmm…Ok. Problem is, I should have used a pre-treated peice of wood bought from a lumber yard. Unfortunately I used a one-piece-stick cut from a living tree. It’s as green as it gets. I liked the shape and what can I say?

I looked at Toddly’s link and I see I can buy something to preserve it, but a quick check of the local wood boat wright stores and they do not carry it. :frowning:

I guess I’ll have to break down and buy a piece of lumber. DAMN! I DIDN’T WANT TO DO THAT!

Philster said:

I have some Johnsons Water Seal left over from doing the deck last summer…will that work?

8

In general, green wood will check as it dries unless you take care to dry it slowly and evenly. Putting poly on green wood is probably a waste of time as the wood is going to change its dimensions (slightly), probably causing crazing or other problems in the finish.

Wood turners face roughly the equivalent problem a lot of the time and solve it by controlling the drying process. One approach, already mentioned, is to wax or paint the ends of the wood. Another is to put the wood in a plastic bag (possibly with some wood shavings) and let it come to equilibrium. Open the bag to reduce the humidity, seal it and wait some more. Repeat until the wood is dry.

Also, if you are using a branch to make the cane, it will probably have the pith in its center. This is almost guaranteed to cause checking.
I’m not sure how treated wood entered this discussion, but you don’t want to use treated wood in a cane or anything else that people are going to be handling a lot. Note that “treated” (pressure treated with chemicals to make weather resistant) is not the same as “seasoned” or “kiln-dried” (water content reduced to 7%).

9

If someone said this in your previous cane thread, sorry, but…

I can understand the sentiment involved with wanting to make a cane for your friend, but since your friend has a real medical disability, and you’re obviously an amateur woodworker with little knowledge of coatings, their application, and safety, wouldn’t it be better to go to a medical supply store and buy a professionally-designed cane?

If your friend has any kind of health insurance, it should cover the price of a cane. If not, there are associations that will donate one.

As for treated lumber… what Finagle said.

Not to be snarky, but the only reason to use treated lumber for a cane is if your friend intends to stand out in the yard 24/7 in all kinds of weather.

You also might want to check whether a deck urethane coating is something that is safe for constant, daily handling…

10

If you made this cane by cutting a branch off of the tree and trying to dry it, that’s why it checked. Did you read the book I recommended in the other thread (Green Woodwork by Mike Abbot)? I still have it here, and if you need it I’ll mail it to you. Book rate is very cheap. Send me an email; I’ll be glad to help.
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If you start with the right piece of wood (split from the log, not just a dried tree branch) you shouldn’t have trouble with radial checking. If it’s just a cut branch, I’d expect checking every time (except I have seen a few nice hazel walking sticks that didn’t check). But most tree branches in North America will check, some to the point of actually splitting.

It will dry nicely in the form you cut it to, and once it’s dried you can put a finish on it. For a natural wood cane, I’d recommend boiled linseed oil.

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For those who might be curious, here’s the other thread alluded to above.

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Yep, I already got Abbot’s book - I love it - and I have bought some of the tools he mentions…Very informative especially the the parts on how a tree grows and how certain tool cut etc…etc…and I will most likely use your and his recs for boiled linseed oil. I only posted this again to see if there were people who had actually crafted a cane…trials and tribulations with doing so was what I was looking for. And thank you again for turning me onto the book!

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quote: I have some Johnsons Water Seal left over from doing the deck last summer…will that work?

Well, that’s better than green wood which contains arsenic and might be wet. Even if you succesfully poly over ithe green stuff, 5-10% of the contaminants will get past the poly. Using a sealer then a paint or poly is ok. The poly should be rated for exterior use.

Like others have said, it’s not the best approach anyway.

14

One final note:

No matter what kind of paint, varnish, sealant, etc. you put onto your cane, mere paint is not going to increase the structural integrity of the wood. If the wood wants to crack, it probably will, eventually. If that crack is bad enough to weaken the cane, a few coats of polyurethane isn’t going to hold your friend’s weight if they lean on the cane.

Use cured wood, but stay away from treated lumber, which is meant for fence posts and decks, not walking sticks.

Even an old axe handle or an old hockey stick will probably be better than a green branch out of the nearby woods.

15

Well i’m sorry it took me so long to see this thread,

I’ve made dozens of canes, walking sticks, staffs, and the like for myself and friends. Sold a couple of them as well. I’ve had them used by people with disabilities (myself included) and here’s my 2 cents.

Definately stick with boiled linseed oil. It will give you the nicest finish, and it will develope a beautiful patina as it is handled. The best way to apply it would be to place the cane (as long as it’s dry wood) in a coffee can full of linseed oil (add 1/3 - 1/4 turpentine to improve the soak-into factor,) for a week or 2 so it can soak up as much as it wants, when you are done just put the lid on the coffee can and store, it will be good for years. Think of a piece of limp celery in a glass of water and you’ll get the idea. if your stick is the right size you can also insert it into those golf-ball tubes and completely soak it, but that’s most likely not necessary. Polyurethanes tend to rub off where handle and the sracthes show up more. After a while they look dingy.

I’ve made many canes from greenwood but they do have to be dried. I found that if I lashed the cane in a bundle with pipes or other sticks, it dried straight. Depending on the design of your cane you may want a little bending or twisting.

Be sure and examine the cut end of your branch, is the center soft and spongey? No good. Mulberry worked well for me, Oak is good, Maple, good. Play around with it. One tree can furnish both good and bad branches. Strip the bark off, of course.

I reccomend using those rubber cane tips for the bottom, wood will just wear out and split, especially if it gets heavy use on sidewalks and such.

I cannot get more detailed without knowing more, is there a handle? How is it attached? is it just a bend? Is your friend a 100 lb. old lady or a 350 lb. biker?

Plan on making more than one cane, you’ll get better with practice.
That’s my 2 cents, have fun.

16

My brother-in-law makes canes. He is in West Texas and uses mesquite. I have quite a stylish cane he made me and I just love it. It’s all nobby with such pretty grain.

He lives in a very dry area and gathers large mesquite limbs that have dropped. He then lets them dry for several months before starting to carve. Some of the branches don’t dry well and can’t be used for canes and end up as wood chips. But the branches that are used are incredibly strong. He lets the canes rest after carving (several weeks) and then uses several coats of poly. My cane is truly a work of art; I get so many comments on it. And it is exceptionally stable without being too heavy. I like it so much better than the metal monstrocity.

Good luck in making your friend’s cane - but please try to make the strongest cane possible.

17

Brian - I am looking for a one piece fits all cane. I have one now that looks beautiful, but it’s green. I have done some wood working in the past but in this case treat me like a kindergardner. You are saying I should get some linseed oil, add a third turpentine, and put said mixture in a coffee can, then place the stick into the coffee can? Right so far?

After two weeks, what should I be observing? Will the grain look much different? Will I need to poly it after that? Will the top crack when it is in the linseed oil mixture? Essentially the cane is completely fashioned now…Thanks for your insight! And everyone else too!

18

I have also made many canes/walking sticks. Havn’t had any trials or tribulations, however.
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If you want to actually soak the cane in linseed oil, use the linseed oil/turp mix per BMalion. Find a long, thin box. Line it with a bin liner/ trash bag. You get the idea.
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Good stuff.
By the way, what material did you end up using?

19

A nice straight piece of Red Oak from the woods in my back yard! I’ll try soaking the cane…Do I poly it after?

20

Nope… just keep is soaked awhile, then wipe it off. The oil will oxidize, forming a tough coating. (You’ve heard of “hand rubbed oil finishes”?)
Is this red oak a branch, or split wood?