Presidential order in Tom Clancy's novels

[Little Nemo]

There was a recent thread about the Presidential order on the television series West Wing. In one post, I mentioned the same subject in Tom Clancy's novels. So I decided to start a new thread.

WARNING: THERE ARE NUMEROUS SPOILERS AHEAD!

Has anyone figured out the order of Presidents in Clancy's books? We know the following:

The first few books had an unnamed "President". This president eventually ran for re-election and was defeated.

Then there was President Fowler, who eventually resigned and was suceeded by his Vice President Durling.

Durling had Kealty as Vice President. Kealty resigned and was replaced by Jack Ryan.

Ryan became President almost immediately when Durling was killed.

Ryan was eventually re-elected and Robert Jackson was his Vice-President.

Kealty apparently suceeded Ryan, but there were mentions of Jackson being assassinated. I was never clear about whether Jackson was assassinated before, during, or after, being elected President.

Bare minimum we have four elections here; the President's (before the series began), Fowler's, Ryan's re-election, and Kealty's. More realistically there were probably more; for example, Fowler might have been in his second term when he resigned, Durling might have been re-elected after assuming the office, and perhaps Jackson held office before being killed.

I won't attempt to figure out where all this fits in with actual Presidents who were named in the series or with historical events mentioned in the books.

[HPL]

Originally Posted by Little Nemo

There was a recent thread about the Presidential order on the television series West Wing. In one post, I mentioned the same subject in Tom Clancy's novels. So I decided to start a new thread.

WARNING: THERE ARE NUMEROUS SPOILERS AHEAD!

Has anyone figured out the order of Presidents in Clancy's books? We know the following:

The first few books had an unnamed "President". This president eventually ran for re-election and was defeated.
.

For what it's worth, I think the Unnamed president is supposed to be Reagen, considering he's in the 1980's era books(Red October, Cardinal, Danger). Maybe Bush 1 as well(who loses to fowler at the end of Clear and Present Danger(either the early 1990's or the late 1980's).

Fowler is supposed to be Clinton, I believe, with what's her name(the rather liberal woman who fowler was having sex with) supposed to be hillary or something like that.

[BrotherCadfael]

Originally Posted by HPL

Fowler is supposed to be Clinton, I believe, with what's her name(the rather liberal woman who fowler was having sex with) supposed to be hillary or something like that.

Fowler was NOT a take-off on Clinton, as The Sum of All Fears was published a year BEFORE Clinton was elected.

[Little Nemo]

I think there are some parallels. "The President" does have some similarities to both Reagan and Bush Sr. Durling appears to be based on Gore and Kealty on Ted Kennedy.

A possible timeline:

1984: "President" (R)
1988: Fowler/Durling (D)
c.1990: Fowler resigns, Durling becomes President
1992: Durling/Kealty (D)
c.1994: Kealty resigns, Ryan becomes VP; Durling killed, Ryan becomes President
1996: Ryan/Jackson (R)
2000: Kealty (D)

Confusing the issue is the fact that I believe Ryan once mentioned Reagan and Bush Sr as former Presidents. It also occurs to me that "the President" might be more than one man; was the President in Clear and Present Danger ever definitely identified as being the same man as the President in The Hunt for Red October?

[Ranchoth]

Kealty? Wasn't he the rapist? How'd HE get elected?

[dalej42]

I believe that Ryan "got bored: with the Presidency and resigned, making Jackson president. Jackson was assassinated and somehow Kealty took office. Teeth of the Tiger doesn't really go into all the details. There are some gaps. Did Jackson appoint a new VP? If not, did Kealty run for a House seat, get elected speaker, and then assume the Presidency?

BTW, the idea that Jack Ryan would resign the presidency because of boredom is ridiculous. I dpn't think Teeth of the Tiger was completely ghostwritten, but that book has some serious flaws.

[Lok]

I never got the impression that Ryan got bored with the Presidency. It was just stated that he resigned, possibly in order to force an African-American as President. Robby was assassinated almost immediately by an old racist that couldn't stand that happening, and Kealty became apparently won the next election, based on his former status as Vice-President. Clancy had to do something to avoid having Jack Ryan show up in the book.

[Little Nemo]

I'd be happy to reread the early books. And I'm willing to reread some of the latter ones like Executive Order and The Bear and the Dragon. But if I have to work my way through those Rabbit and Tiger books a second time, I'm going to be pissed.

[ElwoodCuse]

Little Nemo: despite Clancy's obvious political leanings, he did mention in one of the books that Ryan is technically an independent.

And yeah, Teeth of the Tiger pretty much brought this whole universe crashing down for good. Kealty the rapist and scumbag is PRESIDENT? Robby Jackson assassinated and he gets a page of some casual mentions? And most glaring, the overt September 11 references. As if one horrific "plane + hijacking + building = very bad things" event wasn't enough. I let the first plane hijacking reference go because of the end of Debt of Honor, but when the one guy started talking about Cantor Fitzgerald I was like "Shouldn't you be working on Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow instead, Tom?"

[Little Nemo]

In one of the middle books, Ryan said something like "I don't belong to your party" to Durling. Clancy at that point was still trying to be coy over the partisan thing.

But I think since then, it's been established that Ryan has been a Republican. For example in Teeth of the Tiger the guy who ran the assassination outift was described as being a Democrat and belonging to a different party than Ryan.

[Jonathan Chance]

Originally Posted by Little Nemo

A possible timeline:

1984: "President" (R)
1988: Fowler/Durling (D)
c.1990: Fowler resigns, Durling becomes President
1992: Durling/Kealty (D)
c.1994: Kealty resigns, Ryan becomes VP; Durling killed, Ryan becomes President
1996: Ryan/Jackson (R)
2000: Kealty (D)

There's a hole there. When Ryan becomes President HAS to be an election year because it's stated that he'll only be serving for '9 months'. So that means he's taking the VP oath of office in April of an election year (96? 2000?) or so.

Further backing this up is that Ding Chavez mentions during Executive Orders that the primaries are over and NO one on the ballots are alive. I'd have loved to see the parties sort that one out.

[dalej42]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Chance

Further backing this up is that Ding Chavez mentions during Executive Orders that the primaries are over and NO one on the ballots are alive. I'd have loved to see the parties sort that one out.

I think that is easy. Both parties would have nomination conventions. Even with the deaths of the superdelegates in DC, both parties would have enough delegates for a quoram. Since only DC was destroyed, there would be sitting governors would could be nominated.

[Little Nemo]

In The Teeth of the Tiger a character says that Kealty only became President "by accident". It's shortly after a reference to Jackson's assassination. The simplest explanation is that Kealty was Jackson's VP, but I find it virtually impossible to believe that Clancy would have meant that.

The best theory I can think of that fits what I remember reading along with the greater sense of Clancy's world, is that Jackson and Kealty were running against each other. Jackson had a lead and looked certain to be elected. But very shortly before the election he was assassinated. Kealty then went on to beat whoever had been Jackson's Vice Presidential candidate and was the new Presidential candidate.

The upside is this fits what's written (I think). The downside is it's very contrived and something this unlikely probably would have been mentioned more directly.