Combat Armor

[XT]

I just started a book called The Forever War, by Joe Haldeman. Looks pretty good so far (ironically one of the star clusters mentioned in the book is the Aldebaran Sector...for those of you who've seen Aldebaran's posts you'll know what I'm talking about ).

Anyway, only a short way in the book starts to talk about Combat Armor. This is a theme I've seen in a lot of other books (Starship Troopers, Hymn Before Battle, Armor, etc) and I thought I'd open a thread to chat about it if anyone is interested.

Is fully articulated and self contained Combat Armor possible? Is it something we'll eventually attempt to develop? Would it be useful in combat? How would it be used? What would it be like? How would it function?

I assume power would be the major constraint as making something that a human could stand in that could walk and move shouldn't be a major task. What kinds of power sources could be used?

Anyway, feel free to go off on tangents and talk about whatever related to the books or to combat armor. Hopefully some dopers will be interested in the subject...its always facinated me.

-XT

[Bill Door]

I'm going to predict that by the time such armor is possible there won't be any value to putting human beings in it. Just like the Comanche helicopter program was recently cancelled partly because of Rumsfeld's liking for unmanned aircraft, such as the Predator drone.

[rabbit]

Completely uncited reference here but I remember watching a program called (I think) Beyond 2000 many years ago, which showed upcoming technologies, where they interviewed a couple guys that were working on at least a prototype for one.
This was in the US and the only part they showed was the "legs" which they had based on kangaroos (somehow. Dont ask didnt understand the explanation myself.)
Basically looked like a harness with pogo sticks stuck to each leg, so the total height of the wearer was around 8-9 feet. Some sort of coil or spring basically absorbed the energy of the wearer on the downstride, and released it when pushing off so that there was little loss of energy (and therefore didnt need to add that much to get the thing moving. It was all metal so looked pretty heavy).

What really amazed me was that when the guy started moving, he was "running" pretty damn fast, and it looked JUST like the Japanese anime I was into at the time.
Very cool. Never heard any more about it though.

[Wearia]

The thing that holds it back is cost. Sure its cool and possible, but it'd probably cost a few mil a suit. Then when someone gets hit by an RPG you lose a few mil and a soldier. It makes more sense to remote control the thing, so in the case of iminent destruction, no human life is lost. There just doesn't seem a practical way to make it, and make it worthwhile to use.
However, if its not for a military application is might be worth considering. If someone found another use for such a suit (HazMat or Repair maybe?) it could be worthwhile. Something maybe like SCV's in StarCraft.

[Rabid_Squirrel]

Like the OP mentioned, a major hurdle is power. The has been a few 'lifter suits', like the ones used by Ripley in Alien/s, that actually work. What you don't see is the large large and immobile pump powering the hydraulics. There was a prototype built recently for nurses to lift patients, can't find a cite though.

In terms of storing power, fuel cells has been tossed around due to their high power/weight ratio, but I think the cost is still too high.

[XT]

Well, I guess it would come down to how useful such armor was. If it was good enough to allow an individual soldier to do things that 10 or 20 soldiers couldn't do, then it might be worth the cost. I know in Hymn Before Battle the individual suits cost what a small starship cost...but they were so useful that it was worth it.

As to the power, this is a major stumbling block IMO. Certainly you can make hydrolics small enough to enable a self contained suit, but how would you power it enough to run the hydrolics, electronics, enviromental (cooling, heating, water, air, bio), etc? You could run it on fuel cells but something like this would take a LOT of power I think.

Still, it would be cool to have soldiers that could run 60 miles per hour, jump 30 feet into the air and lift a large truck up. Also, I wonder if you could build in enough armor protection (maybe layers Chobom armor like in the M1A1?) to protect the soldier but still allow mobility.

-XT

[Miller]

Originally Posted by Wearia

The thing that holds it back is cost. Sure its cool and possible, but it'd probably cost a few mil a suit. Then when someone gets hit by an RPG you lose a few mil and a soldier. It makes more sense to remote control the thing, so in the case of iminent destruction, no human life is lost. There just doesn't seem a practical way to make it, and make it worthwhile to use.
However, if its not for a military application is might be worth considering. If someone found another use for such a suit (HazMat or Repair maybe?) it could be worthwhile. Something maybe like SCV's in StarCraft.

Wouldn't most of those objections apply equally to contemporary armored vehicles? How much does an Abrams tank go for these days?

[Bryan Ekers]

Each of the necessary joint articulations at the wrists, knees, hips, shoulders, elbows, etc. would represent a weak point, and a failure of any one of them would seriously affect mobility and effectiveness. It'd be easier to put the soldier in a miniature tank, hovercraft, dune buggy or other well-established vehicle pattern with fewer moving parts in its superstructure. I can picture late 21st-century soldiers wearing uniforms made of some descendant of kevlar, though, giving them light armor but keeping them fully mobile.

Besides, it's not important to beef up the killing power of a single soldier. Much better to use technology to enhance the soldier's ablity to gather and pass on information to artillery or air units and let them smoke the target.

[Ranchoth]

The U.S. government's DARPA is running a research project on powered exoskeletons now. I don't know if they've had any success so far.

...Actually, according to this article, a fella named Kazerooni has built a recent exoskeleton. Said article is also the only place where I've found an image of the "Hardiman 1" exoskeleton prototype built by GE in the 60s. It would have allowed an operator to lift several hundred pounds effortlessly...except that GE's engineers could only get one limb at a time to operate properly.

[Hunter Hawk]

And for the do-it-yourselfers, there's always the Project Grizzly approach...

[tracer]

Originally Posted by xtisme

I just started a book called The Forever War, by Joe Haldeman. [ ... ] Anyway, only a short way in the book starts to talk about Combat Armor. This is a theme I've seen in a lot of other books (Starship Troopers, Hymn Before Battle, Armor, etc)

Just FYI, The Forever War -- which started life as the short story "Hero" -- was originally Joe Haldeman's answer to the over-the-top pro-military flagwaving in Starship Troopers. His use of powered armor suits was directly inspired by Starship Troopers, too.

However, Starship Troopers wasn't the first time the concept appeared in written science fiction. E.E. "Doc" Smith's Children of the Lens mentioned a suit of armor so heavy that it had to have built-in servomotors for its wearer even to be able to move. (Why the wearer couldn't just use one of the ubiquitous Inertialess Drives lying around in that universe, I don't know.)

[DevilDan]

What factors make armor a good idea?

"Urban" or "Low Intensity" activities: hallways and doorways, mainly human-sized opponents, squads rather than battalions. The bigger the armor, the more cumbersome, however. You can't realistically climb stairs if your feet are too big.
No A.I.'s that can adequately do the job, and no tele-operation is feasible (the drone is the killer app). Another killer app: genetic engineering of "creatures" (not necessarily very human) that can get the job done.
Adequate power and mechanical tech.
Difficult environment (atmospheric composition, pressure, maybe vacuum, NBC situations). NBC = Nuclear, Biological, Chemical weapons.

In the excellent webcomic Schlock Mercenary, the tech available make it feasible to build pretty tough armor into a regular uniform. No weapons or strength augmentation, but a good idea. The weapons are guns, rifles, and tanks. This makes sense, since guns may need a lot more power, can give off a lot of heat or exhaust or have a mean recoil, and allow for more variety with a minimum of fuss. Do you really need superior physical strength at the cost of agility? Do you need big bulky armor with lots of guns stuck on it, making you a bigger target for others?

In Peter F. Hamilton's "The Naked God" books, mercenaries and soldiers received surgery and implants and augmentations that gave them their edge: chameleon skin, boosted strength, "wraparound" or extra eyes, armor, connection to communication gear and computers, extra arms, all-around puncture- and burn-proofing, ability to survive many G's of acceleration, etc.

A lot of thought went into some of the Iron Man tech, some good ideas or maybe inspired post facto invention. The latest armors are a sandwich of different layers with different functions: various armors on the outside, a power source layer, a servo-motor layer, a layer to sense the wearer's movements, environmental conditioning, the computing elements, etc. Everything at a very small scale, making the armor less bulky. The War Machine armor (the black and silver one) carried a lot of firepower (rockets, flamethrower, chain gun) that achieved a big force multiplier effect, but also gave a lot of variable response flexibility (e.g. non-lethal force, short range and long range, armor piercing, etc.). The multi-millionaire superhero schtick does away with a lot of the questions we've brought up, like cost and motivation.

Starship Troopers is a good read and the armor had some clever functions, but it's based on badly outdated and unimaginative concepts of warfare and strategy. The Starship Troopers cartoon had a good idea: a squad of marines was augmented with one or two armor-wearing soldiers (although the armors were close to being tanks): force-multiplier effect, gave the unit more options and a bigger punch.

The Sand Wars books mention one interesting use for armored operatives: body guards. On the other hand, can you imagine suicide bombers wearing some of these puppies? Hopefully, that will never be anything but wild speculation. Think of RoboCop, on the other hand. Nearly armor, and there aren't big logic or plot holes. If the makers offer the tech to amputees or people with birth defects, they'll get a whoile hell of a lot of volunteers.

Armor won't ever be a good idea if the guns keep getting deadlier and their range keeps increasing. Picture armored soldiers against automated drones that pick up heat or electronic signatures. Or just motion sensors. It's way easier and cheaper to make smart mines and big guns (or big tasers, to short out circuitry).

[audiobottle]

Unfortunately, no cite, but I remember reading an article recently in Popular Science about a suit that could be used for people with very low-mobility. It had a backpack sized power source and a frame work that fit around your legs (I don' t remember if they had anything for your arms). The suit basically sensed when you wanted to push or bend your legs and would move for you. With it the inventor was able to leg press something like 450 pounds effortlessly. I bet I could find it if I just...
I thought it was in the Popular Science 100 Greatest Inventions list, but I just looked through it online so I don't think it was. I read it in some magazine while waiting for an appointment so who knows what mag it was from?

[smiling bandit]

Wouldn't most of those objections apply equally to contemporary armored vehicles? How much does an Abrams tank go for these days?

Not really equivelant. The Abrams is far better protected than any human being could be, armored or no. Additionally, it mounts a far bigger gun and drives far faster and longer. Frankly, there simply isn't a comparison.

The basic fact of the matter is that "mechs and power suits" are not cost-effective. With given technology it's always better to use more practical designs.

[Johnny Bravo]

Just wanted to jump in to say that Forever War was a very cool book.

Fun Fact: Haldeman initially had trouble getting his book published because publishers didn't think readers wanted 'yet another novel about Vietnam.'

[BMalion]

Besides, why go to all the trouble of getting the firepower of a tank into a small room? Just blow the building up from outside.

[Kiger]

Well here ya go! These guys built a set of Halo armor . It even has a real working headlamp and...
Yeah, I know.
(slinks away)

[XT]

Of course, an Abrams tank wouldn't be as mobile (in theory) as a powersuited trooper. A tank can't duck, it can't jump, it can't go up a mountain, etc. So, if mobility was a factor then some kind of powered armor might be worthwhile if it could be made cheaply enough and give a certain amount of protection.

History has been full of the struggle between weapons advancement and armor with one side and then the other coming to the front. Maybe it won't be powered armor like in the SciFi books (though I STILL say it would be way cool ) but some kind of body armor that protects the trooper head to foot, along with an advanced electronics capability (GPS, encrypted squad, platoon, company, battalian, etc communications, maybe sensors to detect enemy, etc). I know the Army is working on such a suit atm, along with an advanced assault rifle that ties into the helmet...and even 'smart' amunition that can be fired around corners or explode via a proximity fuse when its in range of the target.

I think making each individual soldier more lethal IS a meaningful thing.

-XT

[Paul in Qatar]

Such a gadget is possible, but don't hold your breath, Most military innovations are based upon civil applications.

Until we get nifty Power Loaders (as seen in Aliens), we do not have a basis for a power suit.

Much the same effect could be achieved by developing a medical regime of some sort of safe bodybuilding drug. We could have battalions of 150Kg linebackers if we wanted to.

This just brings us to other angles to noodle over. If we could grow 'em that big, would we want to?

[XT]

Brings up a good point though. There was another series I read (can't remember the name of it off the top of my head and I'm at work) where soldiers (and even civilians to a lesser extent) were given nanites that increased reflexes, strength, regeneration, eyesite, etc. They also had implants that allowed data access and communications and such. Maybe instead of an exoskeleton and powered armor, we will give such enhancements to the people themselves? I know several people are looking at civilian implant technology for data communications and such and it does seem we are going that way. And medical nanite technology is also something thats being researched. Is this a more likely scenerio than powered armor?

-XT

[FunGuy from Yuggoth]

Originally Posted by xtisme

I just started a book called The Forever War, by Joe Haldeman.

Have to agree with Johnny Bravo, The Forever War is an excellent book.

For another take on combat armor, read Forever Peace, also by Haldeman. Not exactly a sequel to The Forever War, though.

[BMalion]

Originally Posted by FunGuy from Yuggoth

Have to agree with Johnny Bravo, The Forever War is an excellent book.

For another take on combat armor, read Forever Peace, also by Haldeman. Not exactly a sequel to The Forever War, though.

Um... yes it is.

[Wearia]

Originally Posted by smiling bandit

Not really equivelant. The Abrams is far better protected than any human being could be, armored or no. Additionally, it mounts a far bigger gun and drives far faster and longer. Frankly, there simply isn't a comparison.

The basic fact of the matter is that "mechs and power suits" are not cost-effective. With given technology it's always better to use more practical designs.

Pretty much what I was going to say. For mobility you sacrifice armoring and increase the chance of becoming scrap metal.

[Johnny Ecks]

Those armor suits in the last matrix movie had to be the most poorly designed pieces of military hardware i've ever seen in a movie. Huge, clumsy, complicated, and offering the pilot no protection, a limited firing arc. A jeep with a turret on the back would have done the same job much more efficiently- And been immune to emp, with a properly designed engine. That kind of thing is the problem with power armor. If you have the technology to build man-wearable power armor, imagine what that same technology packed into a more efficient shape-ie a tanklike chassis- could do.

[emekthian]

Power Suit, pfff.

What the military needs is a Gravity Suit. The Navy SEALS aren't going to have any use for a Chozu-made suit that's as slow as molasses underwater!


On a more serious note, I can see how "combat" armor could be useful in situations like going underwater (the marines could don the suit, and use it to walk around underwater looking for survivors of a submarine wreck) or space exploration (walking around on the surface of Mars?).

[Lizard]

Originally Posted by xtisme

enemy, etc). I know the Army is working on such a suit atm, along with an advanced assault rifle that ties into the helmet...and even 'smart' amunition that can be fired around corners or explode via a proximity fuse when its in range of the target.

They have a working prototype of the small, proximity-fused ammunition. I saw it on the Discovery Channel. It seems like an awful lot of weight and expensive, delicate technology to lug around for only a small combat advantage.

Personally, I am annoyed at just how much so-caled "science" fiction completely ignores real science and physics. Why would any military spring for armored suits that protect every part of a soldier, when its far cheaper and more efficient to simply treat flesh wounds to the arms and legs?

[XT]

Originally Posted by Lizard

Personally, I am annoyed at just how much so-caled "science" fiction completely ignores real science and physics. Why would any military spring for armored suits that protect every part of a soldier, when its far cheaper and more efficient to simply treat flesh wounds to the arms and legs?

Well, from what I understand, hydrostatic shock from a lot of the new generation of weapons is such that its approaching the point where even a leg or arm wound can be fatal.

-XT

[smiling bandit]

That's rather rare though. And I'm not sure that you can make bullets much more lethal than they are. But even so, there are limited gains to be had from armoring legs and arms, because that really slows down your troops and makes their aim suck.

[MMI]

Originally Posted by BMalion

Um... yes it is.

Forever Peace is not a sequel to The Forever War. Doesn't even share the same history/universe, IIRC. However, Haldeman has also written Forever Free, which is a sequel to The Forever War.

[BMalion]

Originally Posted by MMI

Forever Peace is not a sequel to The Forever War. Doesn't even share the same history/universe, IIRC. However, Haldeman has also written Forever Free, which is a sequel to The Forever War.

D'Oh!

[InquisitiveIdiot]

Does no one here read Slashdot?

[Bryan Ekers]

Originally Posted by xtisme

History has been full of the struggle between weapons advancement and armor with one side and then the other coming to the front. Maybe it won't be powered armor like in the SciFi books (though I STILL say it would be way cool ) but some kind of body armor that protects the trooper head to foot, along with an advanced electronics capability (GPS, encrypted squad, platoon, company, battalian, etc communications, maybe sensors to detect enemy, etc). I know the Army is working on such a suit atm, along with an advanced assault rifle that ties into the helmet...and even 'smart' amunition that can be fired around corners or explode via a proximity fuse when its in range of the target.

I think making each individual soldier more lethal IS a meaningful thing.

-XT

Yes, it is, and if/when the fancy-schmancy new OICW rifle gets into play, American elite forces will be able to smoke much larger infantry units. But trying to turn individual soldiers into tanks is kinda silly, since tanks already exist, and for the amount of money you'd spend developing and deploying personal armor, you could make a hell of a lot of really really cool tanks.

I don't expect to see a Navy Seal team given the mission to destroy an enemy airfield. It'll always be easier to send them out lightly armoured and stealthy to find the airfield, gather intel from a distance, and signal coordinates back to HQ so the field can be torched by cruise missiles and unmanned drones.

[tracer]

Originally Posted by smiling bandit

But even so, there are limited gains to be had from armoring legs and arms, because that really slows down your troops and makes their aim suck.

You're absolutely right. Which is why, if we armored their arms and legs, the armor should be ... power-assisted! So we're back to Powered Combat Armor again.

[The Long Road]

It seems that this will depend on material development more than any other factor. With current technology, the wearer would need strong armor to survive attach which means lots of weight which in turn means slow movement. While battle tanks were mentioned for comparison, they can only survive in the modern battlefield with infantry support. Those pesky enemy soldiers tend to hide in all sorts of places waiting to shoot the tanks full of holes when given the chance.

A few articles I read long ago dealt with the subject of giving soldiers this type of armor and all were negative. For one thing, soldiers are very effective at staying out of harms way. Be it a foxhole or shell crater, if there is some form of shelter, a soldier will find it to stay alive. A soldier encased in hundreds of pounds of armor isn't going to be nimble and is probably going to be hit by most things shot at him. This goes back to the more armor adding more weight using more power cycle which means you end up with a battle tank. Said tank-like soldier isn't going to be able to move fast, won't be able to enter above the first floor of many buildings as he will fall through the floor and will cost a fortune.

Did anyone see the movie Steel besides me? I doubt it but I was wondering about the plausability of that movie. Cover yourself in steel and run around for a few minutes. Wouldn't your heart explode if you could even move to begin with?

[jinty]

I'll add my vote in favour of Forever War being an excellent book. Not just the combat armor; there are lots of other fascinating sci-fi concepts in it too, such as:

SPOILER:

The gadget that creates an opaque sphere round itself inside which powered weapons don't work.

and

SPOILER:

All the stuff about relativity, with the protagonist's life covering IIRC more than a thousand years of earth history.

You might also like John Steakley's Armor.

[smiling bandit]

You're absolutely right. Which is why, if we armored their arms and legs, the armor should be ... power-assisted! So we're back to Powered Combat Armor again.

I understand your line of thinking, but the problem with that is that it further increases the size of the "suit" and introduces new problems with building an engine, power source, etc, all of which massively increase the cost. You can't just add an off-the shelf engine for this. It would have to be specially designed and built in huge quantities. And there would be limits to how fast you make such a machine: a soldier's legs can only go so fast before they start being damaged, even if the legs aren't really providing motive power.

I'm not saying the government would pass on, say, Fallout-style power armor. I am saying we're unlikely to ever create such a suit, at least for the foreseeable future.

You can also posit awesome materials science increases, but I don't see that happening in the foreseeable future either.

[XT]

Originally Posted by jinty

You might also like John Steakley's Armor.

Yes, I mentioned it briefly in the OP as one of the novels that deals with powered armor. I enjoyed the first half of the book...the second half of the book I didn't enjoy as much.

Anyway, I guess it comes down to utility on the battle field. If you could make such a suit that was reasonably light and fairly mobile then I can certainly see the benifits. Certainly it would make soldiers reasonably immune to small arms fire as well as shrapnel and indirect artillary fire (short of a direct hit). Again, the main stumbling block I see is power. Even if you went with a more modest power assist armor (i.e. the powered armor would simply negate the effects of weight and allow for generally natural movement by the soldier...he could run, jump, etc 'normally' even when wearing several hundred pounds of armor) the power requirements would be prohibitive. I've tried to think of different power sources that could work but haven't come up with anything that is powerful enough or sustainable enough to make it work.

In a lot of the books they talk about using nuclear power sources but I have no idea how you'd shield something like that...or how much even a very small 'reactor' would weigh. Certainly it couldn't be very safe. Anyone have any thoughts on how a personal reactor would work, what it might weigh, and what you could do to protect the occupant of the armor?

-XT

[toadspittle]

In Starship Troopers, the MI has very specific functions--usu., extremely quick, precision strikes that damage things exactly as much as the govt. wants, no more, no less. I believe Rico says something like, "If they wanted us to kill only left-handed redheads, we'd do it." The Special Forces, basically. They don't seem set up for the type of police/patrol work that would seem to be half/most of our military's job at the present. Plus, the suits have the speed/agility of something between a tank and a helicopter (very high jumps possible), not to mention an arsenal that a nuclear sub commander would envy (our current military would never entrust nukes to privates).

And Heinlein seems to acknowledge the fact that human brains on the scene are always going to be more effective than remotes in critical situations--and that communications failures are bound to happen (my personal beef when it comes to UAVs, etc.). Remotes are great when the mission isn't critical, or when our communications dominance is absolute--neither of which will be true for all cases.

[Mr. Miskatonic]

Originally Posted by tracer

Just FYI, The Forever War -- which started life as the short story "Hero" -- was originally Joe Haldeman's answer to the over-the-top pro-military flagwaving in Starship Troopers. His use of powered armor suits was directly inspired by Starship Troopers, too.

Funny, I had read one of his commentaries in one of his short stories sets where he denies completely that he was writing an answer to Heinlien. He wasn't aware of such a comparison until someone looked at his manuscript and said "Hey! Your writing a riposte to Heinlien!".

His claim about the battlesuits was that they would obviously be needed on the planets they would be fighting on. Heinlein was less an inspiration than a lack of atmosphere.

I think there are about 3-4 variations on one section of "Forever War" that Haldeman has written. They all deal with the first "battle" and the return home:

SPOILER:

The original has Haldemann returning to find the world very zombie-like and homosexuality being encouraged as a form of birth control. The variations have our hero returning to a very crime-ridden world. Another version has a scene that could have inspired Mad Max.

[toadspittle]

Purely FYI, a story on a DARPA powered exoskeleton; it's used to increase the ability of soldiers/firefighters/etc. to carry loads on their backs. Pretty neat.

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994750

[BrotherCadfael]

Originally Posted by Mr. Miskatonic

Funny, I had read one of his commentaries in one of his short stories sets where he denies completely that he was writing an answer to Heinlien. He wasn't aware of such a comparison until someone looked at his manuscript and said "Hey! Your writing a riposte to Heinlien!".

Supposely Heinlein thought very highly of Forever War, calling it "one of the best".

[XT]

Originally Posted by toadspittle

Purely FYI, a story on a DARPA powered exoskeleton; it's used to increase the ability of soldiers/firefighters/etc. to carry loads on their backs. Pretty neat.

Definitely too cool. I wonder how they will make a new engine thats twice as powerful but half the size. I wouldn't want to take the prototype into combat though...the thought of having gasoline and an internal combustion engine strapped to my back leaves me a bit cold. The fuel cell approach sounds promissing though. And this is the early stages. Maybe powered armor (or at power assisted combat troops) ISN'T so far fetched after all.

Originally Posted by BrotherCadfael

Supposely Heinlein thought very highly of Forever War, calling it "one of the best".

*Spoilers for Forever War to follow*



I have to admit I enjoyed the book, but I was puzzled why the Earth went down hill so fast. WHY was there a population explosion? Why was there such lawlessness world wide? Why was there an energy crisis to a people who had star travel?? They could move between the stars for gods sake....moving around the solar system, with its vast natural resources was childs play. Not to mention that they could move to other star systems, with its immense natural resources. I enjoyed the relativity stuff with the soldiers aging only a bit and the people back on earth aging a lot. Thats something missing from a lot of SciFi IMO. But other parts of the story just puzzled me. Why would people go back to subsistance farming, and this be the most effective???? Its totally insane. It makes zero sense. Its like the author is describing two different races or something...the star faring race and the planet bound race. Why would they use zepplines for gods sake? They can go to the stars, but they use old style zepplines?? There were a lot of puzzling things to me.

-XT

[Cervaise]

Originally Posted by FunGuy from Yuggoth

For another take on combat armor, read Forever Peace, also by Haldeman. Not exactly a sequel to The Forever War, though.

I was going to mention this. The soldierboys used by the military in the book are exactly what some people in the thread have suggested: an armored robotic combatant remotely piloted via VR by a trained human "soldier." Much more plausible than having an actual person strap a nuclear reactor to his back.

[rabbit]

Im surprised that no one has mentioned Masumune Shirow's Appleseed. There's an amazing example of exoskeletons and combat armour that's very well thought out. Primary use is urban warfare. More flexibility than a tank seems to be the main theme.

[psiekier]

Originally Posted by rabbit

Im surprised that no one has mentioned Masumune Shirow's Appleseed. There's an amazing example of exoskeletons and combat armour that's very well thought out. Primary use is urban warfare. More flexibility than a tank seems to be the main theme.

Damnit, rabbit, you beat me to it!

I've always loved the idea of powered armour, from Starship Troopers and Armor all the way up through Warhammer 40,000 and Bubblegum Crisis.

Appleseed is, IMHO, one of the more realistic depictions of the genre, owing to Shirow's Tom Clancy-esque attention to detail.

The "Landmates," as they are called, are large, but suitably agile. They work not by fitting over the body like a suit (as Rico describes the suits in Starship Troopers), but rather by having the operator encased in the middle body and amplifying and mimicking his movements with the mechanical joints.

Like xtisme pondered, the big problem in the practicality is just how good is this armoured fellow compared to his alternatives? Heavily armoured combat vehicles are virtually invulnerable to small arms fire and some can shrug off hits from all but the most advanced man-portable heavy weapons. The much-ballyhooed M1A1 served well in the first Gulf War against enemy tanks because it could survive hits from other vehicle-mounted weapons, much larger than those a human (even armoured) could carry.

I submit to you that, like the current research for a powered leg exoskeleton, the first and best applications are likely to be civilian; they will probably be best realized in the areas of law enforcement, construction, and search & rescue.

Policemen trained in the use of a heavily armoured suit would more than a match for any number of typical bad guys. Where the LAPD had a armoured car to facilitate resolution of shoot-outs and armed hostage situations, you could have an officer who need not fear being shot by anything short of really really illegal guns, and who could easily restrain any suspect smaller than an escaped 800 pound gorilla.*

Construction workers could lift much heavier loads than normal. Sure, you might manage something similar with careful planning, a team of labourers, and a couple of forklifts, but there'd be less back problems to worry about. Plus, imagine all the potential for built-in tools: arc welders, nail guns, and pneumatic hammers just to name a few.

I also like the possibilities for firemen. An armoured firefighter could carry large tanks of retardant foam on his back into a blaze where it would be unsafe or impossible for others to follow.

Who knows? We'll have to see where this leads.


* - In Starship Troopers, Rico compares a suited MI trooper to a big steel gorilla, but assures the reader that if a gorilla and a Mobile Infantryman were to swap hugs, the gorilla would get the short end of the stick.