Why should I vote?

[randwill]

In the upcoming presidential election I would vote for Kerry. However, I live in a red (will go Republican) state, so my vote will have no affect on the outcome of the election. Realistically, are there any other reasons I should vote, besides the "Civic Duty" and "People In Other Countries Wish They Had The Privilege You Take For Granted" and "What If Everybody Thought Like You" arguments.

[John Mace]

Well, If Bush wins in the electoral college, but not the popular vote again, you can help those who want to say "But he didn't win the popular vote!". We all really want to hear that for another 4 years...

You do realize, I hope, that there are likely to be other things on the ballot to vote on, too. So even if you think your presidential vote is not going to do anything, there still is a reason to vote. In that case, why not go ahead and take the extra 2 seconds to register your presidential vote?

[rodbots]

If Bush gets re-elected and continues his mad rampage across this country and the rest of the world, by voting you will have earned the right to say, "Don't blame me, I voted for Kerry." On the other hand, if Kerry is elected and begins a rampage of his own, you will kerry the blame for that.

[Neurotik]

Originally Posted by randwill

In the upcoming presidential election I would vote for Kerry. However, I live in a red (will go Republican) state, so my vote will have no affect on the outcome of the election. Realistically, are there any other reasons I should vote, besides the "Civic Duty" and "People In Other Countries Wish They Had The Privilege You Take For Granted" and "What If Everybody Thought Like You" arguments.

If you don't realize that there are other issues/offices on the ballot besides the president, then you probably shouldn't vote. Please stay home on election day.

[randwill]

I realize that there will be other issues and offices to vote for on election day. My question pertained to the presidential election. I'm sorry, I should have said that in the first sentence of my post.

[sturmhauke]

Originally Posted by randwill

Realistically, are there any other reasons I should vote, besides the ... "What If Everybody Thought Like You" arguments.

The problem is, far too many people do think like that. Voter turnout has historically hovered around 50%. If everyone actually voted, outcomes could be completely different. Go vote, convince your friends to vote. If you don't, you're letting me and other voters decide things for you.

[Knorf]

Is it possible that the historically low voter turnouts in the U.S. are a direct result of the Electoral College system, particularly the deal where one candidate gets all of the state's delegates?

Truly, if I lived in, say, Texas, it would be hard not to feel that voting for Kerry was absolutely useless. If the Electoral College system more closely reflected the nation-wide popular vote (for example, if the delegates were apportioned according to the popular vote of each state), it might feel less futile.

[fluiddruid]

I would vote because, if nothing else, every voter who votes against the status quo in a very liberal or very conservative state makes a better case against the electoral college -- which is, after all, the cause of your very dilemma.

[Ravenman]

I vote in elections in Washington, DC all the time, knowing full well that the outcome of literally every vote here is either predetermined or non-binding. (For example, our "primary" back in January allowed voters to cast their ballots, but no delegates were apportioned because of the vote -- that was done in caucuses a few weeks later.)

I do it because I like voting and I collect the "I VOTED" stickers they give out. I have a whole wall of 'em.

If they give out stickers where you live, randwill, maybe you can start your own collection. Or meet your neighbors who volunteer to run the polls.

[BF]

Originally Posted by randwill

I realize that there will be other issues and offices to vote for on election day. My question pertained to the presidential election. I'm sorry, I should have said that in the first sentence of my post.

Please vote, I don't care if it's a write-in or for the Lyndon LaRouche. Just do it.^(tm)

[Zagadka]

Is America so sad now that people need a concrete personal benefit from voting in order for them to drag their asses off the couch to vote?

Do you have any comprehension how different the political scene would be if America had 75% voter turnout instead of 50%?

I suppose you're also against organ donorship, too?

[HopeSL]

I have been wondering why I should vote as well...
So far I have not seen one one logical, thought-out answer. I have gotten the self-righteous lecture about it a lot. I have gotten what the governement and the media says about the whole thing endlessly chattered back at me like a bunch 'o chatterin' birds.

Frankly, I have never noticed any person who wanted/was in any political position that did the job for the job. What do these people get paid again? Then, the poor people get clumped together under a nice neat word called poverty then there is an "issue" of poverty in this country.

Why should I vote for anyone if its just voting for the lesser of <insert number> evils.

Oh and can somebody pontificate for me why people have decided that being lied to by our governing body and the media is ok? It is a common joke about politicians right? (When laws are followed to letter instead of the meaning or spirit)

Well, basically, I just don't think its funny and also dont see how people in those positions can not lie when the government is like it is. So, I don't vote.

I like living in a place that stands for freedom. I like being able to sit on my couch and watch people on tv lying to me. I like having rights. I just dont understand some of the common beliefs, standards, and aspects of the people of this country.

Please someone give me a good reason to vote.

[sturmhauke]

Originally Posted by HopeSL

I like living in a place that stands for freedom. I like being able to sit on my couch and watch people on tv lying to me. I like having rights. I just dont understand some of the common beliefs, standards, and aspects of the people of this country.

Please someone give me a good reason to vote.

Think about those two ideas together. Now think about government without democracy. Perhaps the king is strong and just, and treats his subjects well and leads them into peace and prosperity. Or perhaps he is paranoid, suspects you of treason, has you hauled out of your bed in the middle of the night with no explanation and imprisioned. No one tells you what you stand accused of, you are not allowed to speak to anyone about your supposed crimes, you rot in jail for a while, you are one day pronounced guilty and sentenced to hard labor, or your lands are confiscated, or you are executed. Under such a government, you have no voice and therefore no rights. Under a democracy, you are the government. But if you don't care enough to use your voice, and neither do you neighbors, and enough people slide into apathy, you will one day find your voice has been taken away while you were busy watching the latest celebrity gossip while you laze about on your comfortable couch.

[furt]

Frankly, I'd rather you didn't.

[Planet of the Shapes]

There's an ad running in the UK at the moment, to try to get more people to register to vote. Its basically this guy who trys to complain about various things, like hospitals, traffic etc and his friend saying "you don't do politics, remember", so he has to shut up. Its tagline is something like "if you don't do politics, there's not much you do do".

Its probably not quite as relevent in the US, where there is less government involvement in peoples lives, but the main point of it is still valid i think, politics affects so much of the world around you, and the vote if your chance to affect politics. If you don't use that chance but you then complain about the government then you're being hypocritical IMO.

[aahala]

Voting in the US is a right. It's not a privilege and it's not an obligation.

So if there's insufficient benefit for you to vote, don't do so. You ARE exercising a right by choosing not to participate.

[kniz]

Originally Posted by John Mace

Well, If Bush wins in the electoral college, but not the popular vote again, you can help those who want to say "But he didn't win the popular vote!". We all really want to hear that for another 4 years...

^{Don't encourage them!}

Originally Posted by rodots

On the other hand, if Kerry is elected and begins a rampage of his own, you will kerry the blame for that.

^{Your bad}

[Baker]

As regards the OP, if a person doesn't vote, they can't complain about how things are run. It's as simple as that.

Voting means you are taking sides in a issue(s), and participating in the governing process. As a character in a Heinlein book once said "Take sides! If you don't take sides you are always wrong."

I

[Clothahump]

Originally Posted by randwill

In the upcoming presidential election I would vote for Kerry. However, I live in a red (will go Republican) state, so my vote will have no affect on the outcome of the election. Realistically, are there any other reasons I should vote, besides the "Civic Duty" and "People In Other Countries Wish They Had The Privilege You Take For Granted" and "What If Everybody Thought Like You" arguments.

Vote, dammit. It's the most important thing you can or will do as a citizen of this country.

What was the final number? If 700-some odd people had gotten off their dead asses and voted in the last election, we'd be suffering under Gore as President (and airplanes would probably be flying into buildings on a weekly basis, but that's a seperate issue).

The fewer people turn out, the more important your vote becomes. If it's not cast, then don't complain about the results. Educate yourself as to who the better candidate would be (and sometimes it really is the lesser of two evils) and vote for that person.

[HumptysHamhole]

In the upcoming presidential election I would vote for Kerry.

You shouldn't vote.

[Dogface]

Originally Posted by randwill

In the upcoming presidential election I would vote for Kerry. However, I live in a red (will go Republican) state, so my vote will have no affect on the outcome of the election. Realistically, are there any other reasons I should vote, besides the "Civic Duty" and "People In Other Countries Wish They Had The Privilege You Take For Granted" and "What If Everybody Thought Like You" arguments.

Don't sweat it. Stay at home. Your vote is worthless. Just forget about it and let us run everything for you.

[Zagadka]

... I swear, I'm moving out of this ass backwards country. ;-)

Shame on you guys telling him not to vote because you disagree with his politics. That is sickeningly underhanded and against the concepts of democracy. You should be encouraging every person to vote, no matter their political outlook.

[Revtim]

I used to think my vote wouldn't make a difference.... then 2000 came along.

I live in Palm Beach County.

You bet your ass *I'm* voting!!!

[GawnFishin']

I don't think I'd like too much the idea of living in a place where I didn't have a say in the way my life and that of my family was governed. The rules of our society are created by our votes no matter what we may or may not think. We are society today, what we do today sets an example for our children, if we are so apathetic as to not care about our own future shouldn't we at least do this one thing to try to shape the future for our children?

What will your lagacy be?

[Dogface]

Originally Posted by Zagadka

Shame on you guys telling him not to vote because you disagree with his politics. That is sickeningly underhanded and against the concepts of democracy. You should be encouraging every person to vote, no matter their political outlook.

Here's a clue, take two, they're small: I put the issue in the starkest terms imaginable. He asked, flat out, if he should bother to vote at all because yadda yadda yadda natter natter natter. I decided to flatly answer "No, let us run the country." or words to that effect. How does he respond to that? That will determine whether or not he was really ambiguous or merely looking for an excuse to not bother with his civic duty.

[dalej42]

In college, I had an economics professor who kept explaining how voting wasn't rational: the "cost" of voting didn't equal the "benefit."

However, I'd say voting, even in a guaranteed Bush state makes sense. Even if I knew who was going to win the state, I'd still vote. Why? Well, I'd like to keep the election close. Also, the national political parties will look at the results as well. Perhaps it might mean the state will get more attention in the next election. Perhaps the national party will put more effort into the next Senate or Gov. race than they would have.

[athelas]

I'm a Pubbie who lives in a solid blue state (my county went for Gore 2-1 in the last election) but I plan on voting when I'm 18. Why? Well, with voter turnout as it is, especially among the youth brackets (?): I get to speak for three to five people. Where else can you do that?

Besides, boosting the popular vote's never wasted effort: see 2000.

[js_africanus]

Originally Posted by randwill

Realistically, are there any other reasons I should vote....

There are still local politics, which you should get involved in. Nat'l politics are important; however, what happens at the local level has a significant and immediate impact on your quality of life.

Besides, you may be mistaken on your Red State prediction.

[HumptysHamhole]

Shame on you guys telling him not to vote because you disagree with his politics. That is sickeningly underhanded and against the concepts of democracy. You should be encouraging every person to vote, no matter their political outlook.

It is called a joke Zag, lighten-up a little will ya. Seriously though I don't think that we should encourage anyone to vote. If someone dosen't have the sense enough to assert themselves in our government then I don't want them to vote. I especially do not want to encourage someone to vote who has no clue about the people/issues on which they will be voting. Informed people tend to vote more fequently and that is a good thing -- I want the ignorant to stay at home.

[Hazel]

In the upcoming Presidential election, it's believed that there are some states that the Democrats are sure to win, some that the Republicans are sure to win, and some that are up for grabs. If you live one of the "uncertain outcome" states, your vote does count. Re the other states, can we be sure that the pundits are right in all cases? IMO, no. I'd say that even if your state is in one of the two "all sewn up" columns, if you have a preference, go out and vote for the guy you like better.

If you don't much like either candidate, or if you are positive that your state is all sewn up by one of the Big Two, you have the opportunity to use your vote to send a message. Definitely a fun thing! One way to send a message is by voting for a minor party candidate. Want govt to get to work to end global warming? Want better environmental protections? Vote Green. Want marijuana to be legalized? Think goverment has become too powerful or too intrusive into pvt matters? Vote Libertarian. Think abortion should be completely illegal, no exceptions? Vote Right to Life? Etc. Alternatively, if you want to send an "a pox on both your houses" message, a write-in candidate is the way to go. Write in Donald Duck, for example.

That said, I am mystified that anyone could be indifferent as to who wins in 2004. Bush II strikes me as the most polarizing President of modern times. Is there anyone out there who isn't polarized? I'm sufficiently polarized that I would have turned out to vote for the Dem, no matter which of them got the nomination. It's one of those times, IMO, when one needs to vote against a candidate. I would think that, conversly, anyone who approves of Bush would be bound to feel strong antipathy toward even the least-left among the possible Dems.

[Munch]

Have you considered trading your vote? In 2000, there was a good deal of news about websites like nadertrader.com and the like where Gore supporters in strongly red or blue states would trade their votes with Nader supporters in swing states.

[Paranoid Randroid]

Originally Posted by Hazel

Want marijuana to be legalized? Think goverment has become too powerful or too intrusive into pvt matters? Vote Libertarian.

And this will accomplish exactly what? No percentage but no percentage of current libertarians voting libertarian could bring a favorable candidate into major office. (Ron Paul notwithstanding.) Seriously. It's almost like people are mocking me by telling me I can "take part" in my own "governing". I can't complain if I don't vote? It's as simple as that, really? If I vote I've done everything I can to bring about my desired state of affairs such that then have a clear right to jeer the political scene?

No, it's a tad bit more complicated. If I proselytize the libertarian line - if I think and act and set a libertarian example - then maybe, eventually, there'll be enough libertarians to make a difference. Voting now would be stupid and a waste of time. I'd be taking part in a system whose mechanations will inevitably result in an outcome that makes the baby Jesus cry on the inside.

Sorry, but no. Good news is that Murray Rothbard's Man, Economy, & State has been recently made available by the Mises Institute. I encourage anyone to read it.

[HumptysHamhole]

No, it's a tad bit more complicated. If I proselytize the libertarian line - if I think and act and set a libertarian example - then maybe, eventually, there'll be enough libertarians to make a difference. Voting now would be stupid and a waste of time.

I understand your frustration and I think that having a run-off in presidential elections would of course help make your Libertarian vote more worthwhile. However even in our present system I don't think that a Libertarian (or Green Party, etc.) vote is "stupid and a waste of time." Even if your preferred candidate dosen't win the media does pay attention to the number of votes a thrid party candidate receives. If your thrid party candidate receives significantly more votes than they were expeted to receive then it will bring more mainstream media attention to their cause in general. And don't fool yourself by saying that the media dosen't matter. If you want more people to join your cause you must get your information out to as many people as possible. High numbers of votes for third party candidates may also have the side effect of causing the two big parties to modify thier platform to include the ideas proposed by those third parties.

[kunilou]

You realize, of course, it wasn't just Florida that had a razor-thin margin in the 2000 election, but also New Mexico and New Hampshire.

But let's assume you live in a state where there isn't a snowball's chance in hell that your preferred candidate could win. Should you still vote?

Yes, because the presidential election isn't the only thing on the ballot. Here in Missouri, we have a bunch of elected officials who'd like to balance the state budget by cutting programs for poor people. I'd like to express my opnionm about that.

In my local election next week, five towns are banding together to ask for a sales tax to improve a major road. They haven't shown a plan, they can't say for sure what "vision" they have for the road and they can't say whether existing businesses along the road will be forced out. I'd like to have a say about that.

I'm sure that people who disagree with my opinions also would like to have their say on these issues. Good. Let's all vote.

[Hazel]

I suggested that one option is to vote for a minor party or write-in candidate as a means of sending a message. Cheese Monster replied:

Originally Posted by Cheese Monster

And this will accomplish exactly what? No percentage but no percentage of current libertarians voting libertarian could bring a favorable candidate into major office. (Ron Paul notwithstanding.) Seriously. It's almost like people are mocking me by telling me I can "take part" in my own "governing". I can't complain if I don't vote? It's as simple as that, really? If I vote I've done everything I can to bring about my desired state of affairs such that then have a clear right to jeer the political scene?

No, it's a tad bit more complicated. If I proselytize the libertarian line - if I think and act and set a libertarian example - then maybe, eventually, there'll be enough libertarians to make a difference. Voting now would be stupid and a waste of time. I'd be taking part in a system whose mechanations will inevitably result in an outcome that makes the baby Jesus cry on the inside.

Sorry, but no. Good news is that Murray Rothbard's Man, Economy, & State has been recently made available by the Mises Institute. I encourage anyone to read it.

Cheese Monster, I'm not suggesting that anyone vote for a minor party candidate (or for Donald Duck) with any expectation that he, she, or it will actually win. I'm suggesting that anyone who sees no point in voting for either of the two major party candidates can use his or her vote to send a message.

I don't think that the only votes that matter are the ones cast for the winner. The ones cast for the losing major party candidate are important in that it matters by how big or small a margin the winner wins. The ones cast for minor party and write-in candidates matter too. Turning out to vote but not voting for the candidate of either of the Big Two Parties says "I don't like the choices you two are offering me" -- staying home does not say this. Staying home indicates that you just don't care which one wins -- perhaps because you think they're about equally good, and either one would make a fine President.

[Bone]

Originally Posted by Baker

As regards the OP, if a person doesn't vote, they can't complain about how things are run. It's as simple as that.

Actually, your right to vote is independent of your right to complain. I like living in a country where I can exercise both, either, or neither at my discretion.

Beyond the "civic duty" and "people in other countries would love to be able to vote" reasons, in the narrow example described (ignoring local issues), the only quantifiable reason I can think of to vote is the infantesimle effect that your vote may have on those who analyze election results. Pretty convincing, no?

[davidm]

Suppose Kerry were to win the electoral college but lose the popular vote. Do you really want to listen to that for 4 years?
But seriously, popular vote may not determine the outcome but IMHO it does have some consequence and can send a message. If you want Kerry to win, then you should want him to win with as clear a mandate as possible.

[Trunk]

Originally Posted by sturmhauke

The problem is, far too many people do think like that. Voter turnout has historically hovered around 50%. If everyone actually voted, outcomes could be completely different. Go vote, convince your friends to vote. If you don't, you're letting me and other voters decide things for you.

Originally Posted by Zagadka

Do you have any comprehension how different the political scene would be if America had 75% voter turnout instead of 50%?

Sorry guys, I don't have any comprehension how completely different the political scene would be if we had 75 or 100% voter turnout.

Please give me some concrete examples where the outcome would have been different if we had greater voter turnout, and follow it up with an explanation of how if they other guy had won, the political scene would have been completely different.

They run surveys where they poll 1500 people and the margin of error when extrapolating to the whole country is roughly 3%.

Pretty much every election we have, it wouldn't make any difference whether 50% or 100% of the people voted.

Originally Posted by Baker

As regards the OP, if a person doesn't vote, they can't complain about how things are run. It's as simple as that.

Why is this so simple. There's a lot of things we have the right to complain about that we had no hand in bringing about. I can complain there's nothing good on TV even though I'm not a TV executive, don't have a Neilsen rating box, and never answered a survey about it. I can complain the Yankees are too rich to give us fair competition even though I'm not in the players union or on the competition committee. And I can complain that Bush is war mongering jackass or that Clinton was a sexual harasser whether I voted or not.

Logically, the people who don't have a right to complain are the people who voted for the guy who won. You voted for Bush in the last one -- keep your mouth shut if you think he's screwing up. You helped get him in there.

[mhendo]

Originally Posted by Baker

As regards the OP, if a person doesn't vote, they can't complain about how things are run. It's as simple as that.

This is really quite a silly statement. It assumes that the choices available to a voter always represent a set of options from which that individual is happy to choose. It is perfectly reasonable for someone to decide that none of the available options represent his or her idea of reasonable government, and decide on that basis not to participate at all. Personally, i would never take this route, because i believe that in virtually every election there is one candidate or one party or one set of issues that better represents my views and my idea of a good society.

I grew up in a country where voting is compulsory, and where voter turnout has not been below 94% since World War II, and i firmly believe in the civic importance of voting. But to suggest that not voting is nothing more than laziness, and that abstention relieves you of your right to be concerned about the way society is run, is simplistic in the extreme, and fails to take into account the problems of the two-party domination that characterizes many functioning democracies.

[GawnFishin']

All this complaining about "the man" doesn't listen or "whatever happens in government means nothing to me because they don't listen", "all the government does is raise taxes and tries to bleed me dry". "Why should I trust anything the government says." For sanity sake then make a stand the only opinion poll the government cares about is the vote! If your not going to have your say when it is time to say something then don't say anything! At all!! Ever!!! "The government doesn't listen!" Yes they do every time you vote trends are set. These trends are used to see what the public is thinking it all makes a difference. The one thing to remember is that an election is the one and only time you get to have your say, so by not taking part you are really only fooling yourself. Yeah I'll not vote that'll teach 'em. Really? It doesn't bother the people in power because by not voting your are in effect saying is "I like the way your government is screwing with me." Is this what you mean? If not then vote! Answering a Fox opinion poll does not make a difference because the government cannot be changed by a Fox opinion poll. The election of a governing body is the choice of the people within a society. If the people wish to exercise their right not to vote then why do they complain about not having a say in how their country is being run when in fact they do have a say? This is your one and only time to speak about the direction your country is taking.

Sure not every single voice is going to be heard clearly, and the opinion of every individual is not going to be considered for debate. But at least have the say, a grain of sand doesn't make a beach. Just like a single vote doesn't change a government but. But how many people failed to vote in the last election? Everyone screams about "he didn't win the popular vote" let me say voting itself doesn't seem to be all that popular anyway.

[Trunk]

People get to thinking the craziest things about voting.

Originally Posted by athelas

I'm a Pubbie who lives in a solid blue state (my county went for Gore 2-1 in the last election) but I plan on voting when I'm 18. Why? Well, with voter turnout as it is, especially among the youth brackets (?): I get to speak for three to five people. Where else can you do that?

You want to speak for 3 to 5 young people? What's that mean? Does someone see your ballot, determine your age, assume you're speaking for 3-5 people and somehow make a policy decision? Do you walk in, pull the lever, and feel a momentary sense of greatness as you know you vote respresents what 3 of your classmates are thinking?

And then this...

Originally Posted by athelas

Besides, boosting the popular vote's never wasted effort: see 2000.

Well, actually 2000 supports the exact opposite of what (I think) you're saying. A lot of people boosted the popular vote for Gore. It was a wasted effort.

[GawnFishin']

Originally Posted by mhendo

But to suggest that not voting is nothing more than laziness, and that abstention relieves you of your right to be concerned about the way society is run, is simplistic in the extreme, and fails to take into account the problems of the two-party domination that characterizes many functioning democracies.

I too grew up in a compulsory voting situation and I certainly got the impression that the political parties tended to pay more attention to what the public had to say because if you failed as a government your were more likely to be replaced. *Gough *gough..Anyway that being said the elections are the time to speak out in whatever way you can, gees if you don't like it change it and the only way to change it is to take part. If you don't participate how can you expect change?

[Trunk]

Originally Posted by 12 parsecs from home

Anyway that being said the elections are the time to speak out in whatever way you can, gees if you don't like it change it and the only way to change it is to take part. If you don't participate how can you expect change?

See, these are the kinds of things people say because there isn't really a logical reason to vote.

Your participation doesn't change things. It doesn't do anything. The people in power don't notice. The guy who lost doesn't notice. They don't care that you voted. You *FEEL* like you have to participate, but its really a lot less effort if you come to terms with the realization that your voting doesn't do anything more than my non-voting.

Next election. Vote. Do it. Remember what you voted for on every issue. Open up the paper the next day and re-tabluate the results based on if you had stayed home and not voted at all.

If there are other reasons you think you should vote, then by all means do, but you're not affecting the process any more than the guy who lives next door to you who didn't vote.

[Aitara]

Originally Posted by Bone

Beyond the "civic duty" and "people in other countries would love to be able to vote" reasons, in the narrow example described (ignoring local issues), the only quantifiable reason I can think of to vote is the infantesimle effect that your vote may have on those who analyze election results. Pretty convincing, no?

Actually, this 'infantesimle effect' may be one of the strongest reasons to vote. This analysis becomes the bible for politicians and their consultants. What issues brought out their supporters, what turned them away, who voted for them, who voted for their opponent. It is from this template that the candidates run for office. (In fact, I believe that a number of President Bush's recent decisions have been designed to consolidate his base) Not voting creates a vicious circle. For example, 18-21 represent the lowest turnout percentages in most elections with common reason being that the candidates don't address their concerns. Why should a candidate waste resources addressing the issues of a group that don't show up at the polls? Especially when they could spend their time on people that will vote. In a perfect system, candidates would listen to and address every issue. However, they have neither the time nor the resources to do so. They focus their efforts on those items that will generate the most votes. The bottom line is this: By not voting, you marginalize your issues. Granted, it is just the first step, but it is a necessary one. No, your single vote won't make a difference today, but when the results are analyzed and the candidates see who is voting and why, then your concerns may be addressed.

[GawnFishin']

Originally Posted by Trunk

See, these are the kinds of things people say because there isn't really a logical reason to vote.
If there are other reasons you think you should vote, then by all means do, but you're not affecting the process any more than the guy who lives next door to you who didn't vote.

How can you say this...??? Can you not see a reason for voting? If the people in power only have to convince 30 percent of the population then it is all the better and easier for them. And yes it becomes easier for them because they only have to justify their actions to the people paying for their campaigns because you don't care, which then becomes screw you because you don't care, the elected official is only interested in repaying the favour that got them elected. He does this by passing laws favorable to those that help get him elected giving out contracts to friends and such. When you have a situation where you have to justify your actions to the whole population then it is harder on the SOB's who would like to think they can do what ever they please. It also makes it harder for governments because campaign financing becomes more honest, because there is more of a need to explain why and how when every one has a say, a governemet then has to justify what they are doing to the people and not just to a select few. stand for something or fall for anything, no matter how small your part may seem it can have an effect if enough people feel the same way.

The Election is the time we are given to make ourselves heard collectively, maybe the pickings aren't that great between the two candidates but if you don't use the time given to you to make a choice how can you complain after the fact. Besides if you get enough people feeling the same way as you do and willing enough to take action on those feelings then things will change. If you do nothing how can you expect change.

Great arguement if you change I'll vote, yeah that's going to work.
I know it's not a perfect process but we have to be a part of that process if we expect change. How can you expect change if your not prepared to speak when you are given the chance?

[B. Serum]

Originally Posted by Neurotik

If you don't realize that there are other issues/offices on the ballot besides the president, then you probably shouldn't vote. Please stay home on election day.

Well, if you live in Virginia, you should vote for no other reason just to cancel out the vote of elitists who think some people shouldn't have the same rights as they do.

[cowgirl]

Echoing Aitara ...

Remember that the distribution between people who vote and people who don't vote is not random. People with certain interests are more likely to vote than others. So, the interests of those who don't vote are less important to politicians than the interests of people who do, for reasons which should be obvious.

For instance ...

I once heard that 70% of tenants don't vote. Seventy percent.

What that means is that any politician faced with a decision that may benefit tenants vs. one that may benefit landlords (or homeowners, or any other non-tenant) can tell him/herself that there's no need to consider what tenants want, because they're not going to vote anyway, and therefore s/he risks little by ignoring them or pissing them off.

So, as a tenant, I vote. And I sometimes write letters to my representative telling them so.

Now, replace 'tenant' with any other interest group that you identify with - student, woman, Asian-American, person under 25, person with environmental conscience, etc.

Although it's nice to think that politicians don't coldly say 'Well, we know that [people with characteristic X] don't vote, so we shouldn't be concerned about introducing policies that will hurt them' I think that quite a lot of decisions get made that way, explicitly or not.

Voting gives you leverage.

[GawnFishin']

Person A says "you change this law and I'll vote for you."
Person B says "I voted for you so don't change that law."
Politician says to person B "of course I won't, are you still coming to dinner Friday"
Politician still hasn't even recognised person A as being serious.

[GawnFishin']

Originally Posted by Hey you!

Well, if you live in Virginia, you should vote for no other reason just to cancel out the vote of elitists who think some people shouldn't have the same rights as they do.

Ain't reverse psychology amazing...

[Trunk]

Originally Posted by 12 parsecs from home

How can you say this...??? Can you not see a reason for voting?

No, I don't see a reason to vote. When election day comes around, I have a two part question to answer.

1) What is the purpose of going to the polls? A: to get my guy and my issues "in".

2) Does my going to the polls actually contribute towards those ends? A: No. I open the paper the next day and on every one of the issues I could have changed my vote and it wouldn't have mattered.

Originally Posted by 12 parsecs from home

If the people in power only have to convince 30 percent of the population then it is all the better and easier for them.

This is silly. If only 30 percent of the people vote, you're still going to have to get to those 30. 15 still want one thing and 15 still want another.

If you were able to poll 30% of the population about something they want (do you prefer Coke or Pepsi? Do you prefer Kerry or Bush?) and you made a decsion for the country based on that 30%, you would be incredibily accurate. Probably within hundredths of a percent. And THEN, you throw in something like the electoral college and those small percentages don't even matter (now THAT we saw in the last election).

But, the good thing about elections is that the 50% you're polling are the people that actually give a crap.

And that's another thing -- I don't give a crap. I really don't care if Bush or Kerry gets elected. I still get up, go to work, go home, eat, watch a little tube, and then go to bed. Whoever is president (or mayor or if Bill #43 passes) pretty much has no effect on my life.

Dang, we have about 50% who think W is doing great, and 50% who don't. I say "I don't give a shit about it"? I mean, no matter which side I come down on, 50% of the people are still going to think I'm a moron.