MENSA

[Grendel69]

Straight Dopers vs MENSA...

Beforehand MENSA claims that this cannot happen as the Straight Dopers have not provided evidence in the form of IQ test results that they are worthy enough of MENSA's attention. After a roundhouse and two right hooks MENSA can no longer complain as they lack teeth...

I hate those bastards. I truly wish a pox upon them.

[Spiritus Mundi]

Why?

[concrete]

dont bother me one bit..gotta 153 i.q

[Coldfire]

Yeah right!

concrete, that was the DOG IQ test. To convert your IQ to human standards, please substract 100 (one hundred). Can you do that for us?

[mikehardware]

My boss was into the local Mensa group, and tried to recruit me, since I've got high enough test scores to qualify.

Anyway, there was a whiteboard outside our computer room that we used to post messages. The computer needed repairs, so the sign read "Computer is DOWN" for a couple of days. When it was repaired, I changed it to "Computer is UP". I walked in with the boss after lunch, boss looks at the sign, and tries to figure it out. "Computer is U... P... U... P..." like it's some sort of acronym !!! I laughed so hard!

[Grendel69]

I don't like 'em cause of the damn exclusivity.

Intelligence=X

If you don't fall into the category of X, you can't join...dumbass.

That's the basic principle (albeit incredibly overstated) that annoys me. I like dopers better (in the month that I have known 'em) cause they're an bit more diverse and in touch with this world. If I have to ask someone how to fix a car, I am asking a doper.<director's note: asskissing sounds should be inserted here. i want volume!!!>

ben

[Ukulele Ike]

Well, geez, Grendel, ALL clubs are exclusive.

To belong to Mensa, you have to have a high IQ.

To belong to the Menudo Fan Club, you have to like Menudo.

To belong to my club, you have to be a white male heterosexual Protestant with a trust fund. And no surnames ending in vowels, either, greaseball.

So what's the problem?

-- Uke, beating all the libertarians to the thread

[Parrot]

Straight Dopers vs MENSA... ?

Sounds like there's a few SDMensans out there.
How bad can an SDMensan be? They come here to live, love, laugh, and be happy. And rant and kvetch.

[billehunt]

I was a member of Mensa about 15 years ago. They were a bit pretentious for my tastes, so I left.

Hmm, now that I think of it, the pretentious level on SD is above average as well.

Hmm, not that I really think of it, my personal pretentiosness is a bit on the high side too.

Maybe Mensa's not so bad after all.

[Sake Samurai]

I was a member for a while, but became quite agitated and frustrated by the level of stupidity around me. Sure, they all have "high" IQ's, but I continually had to explain how my IQ went off the scale and came back around so it likes like it's a 65, but it's really more like a 265. They never got that through their giant skulls so I'd tease them about how an anagram of "MENSA" is "SEMAN". It works better when shouted at the top of one's lungs while leaning forward with arms back.

[VaHermit]

Give me an ounce of common sense before a pound of book lernin' anyday.

Last week I recieved my state certification as an industrial hydraulic tech. My daughter ask if I was going to frame it or put it in the drawer. My answer?...in the drawer with the others.

I now have a total of nine certificates- none framed. Why?
Because I worked for them and tested for them for my own satisfaction and (to the tune of the army jingle..be all that I can be..) I didn't do it to show off or to wave them in anyones face. I did it for me, period! (Well...maybe to get a small raise at work so I can get off welfare)

I don't know if I could pass the Mensa test or not, but I really couldn't care less. What would it get me other than a banner to wave and a sure means of alienating my friends?

If you feel secure about yourself, why brag?

[Grendel69]

...VaHermit!!! That's what I was getting towards pretty much. Damn intelligence if one can't apply it and use it in the real world. The SDMB people debate things that are applicable to their lives in many manners. Political issues (Kissinger's foreign policy), functional things (the very recent 'how to get rid of groundhogs'), and sometimes inane things that are simply for amusement and curiosity (most postsin the BBQ pit for instance). talking to MENSA-ites(?) it's like a giant schlong comparison contest.

"my iq is 185!!!"
"mine is 190!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HA!!!!!!!!!"

Ukele...but the degree of the exclusivity and the manner in which the criteria are determined and measured (a fricking test!?!?!?!?!) is bizarre.

[WallyM7]

Gren:

I am with you. I think. Maybe. I don't know.

I paid the bastards $35 for the test, but they told me to take a hike.

Said I was close, and to try the test again. I don't think so.

I'd think I'd rather be with the common people.

[Milossarian]

I'm a member of MANSA. I think it's the same. Maybe it's better. I'm not sure.

I got it off a matchbook cover. Or maybe it was an infomercial at 4 a.m. Anyway, all it required was a second mortgage - but for that kind of prestige ....

I mean, those MANSA guys were getting the chicks.

[Lynn Bodoni]

talking to MENSA-ites(?) it's like a giant schlong comparison contest.

"my iq is 185!!!"
"mine is 190!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HA!!!!!!!!!"

What? I've been involved in four chapters in three states...and I've NEVER heard anyone comparing IQs. Ever. For that matter, they don't really care if you're the M or a family member or guest when you go to a meeting, at least in my experience.

It's perfectly possible that this sort of thing goes on in every single chapter except the ones I've been in...but I rather doubt that it does. This sounds a lot more like someone's conception of what an M meeting is like.

[Iguana Boy]

Well, I passed their tests, but I agree with VaHermit and Grendel69. What good is intelligence if you can't apply it practically?

"You may be able to work out how long it takes to fill a bath with both taps full on and no plug, but you still bought those magic beans"

Why aren't MENSA members all rich?

Intelligance is only one factor (and yes, it is a factor) in being succesful (ina material/financial sense), but it can be outweighed by other factors eg luck!

[Ukulele Ike]

Hey! I'm fucking brilliant and I don't make a lotta money, because it's against Buddha Nature.

[Oncle Bière]

Why aren't MENSA members all rich?

What makes you think we aren't ?
Monsieur Ike d'ukelele is pulling your chaîne.

We all share in the conspiration globale called the IMF; le Fonds monétaire international.
And your Monsieur Greenspan works for us.
(We know where his bodies are buried. There are several Swiss attachés "M.I.A." from a certain early meeting of his Fight Club.)

[Beakeroni]

You're not really supposed to take it. They want you to fill it out and give it back.

I wish someone had told me!

[Morgan]

The problem with Mensa is that they actually believe an IQ is an accurate representation of intelligence. The stated purpose of their organization is “to identify and foster human intelligence for the benefit of humanity.” Yet, the best solution 100,000 Mensans could come up with is an IQ test.

Sure, being able to recognize anagrams, decode cryptograms and figure out which picture is different from the others measures one ASPECT of intelligence, but it doesn’t come close to measuring the whole package.

I don’t see Mensa sending out invitations to people who represent the top 2% of artists or comedians. Clearly, artistic ability is an aspect of intelligence, as is the ability to recognize humor in various situations. For that matter, I don’t see Mensa kicking people out because they are not in the top 2% of socialization abilities.

Mensa is a club of people who can solve certain types of puzzles. Period. It is unfortunate that Mensa believes otherwise.

[i1055]

MENSA is just one letter away from menso (ask your hispanic friend)

what is MENSA's purpose, do they raise money through fund drives to cure cancer, do they promote tourisim or goodwill, what do they do???

mensa vs. menudo fan club: menudo fan club is not exclsionary, any one can join, not that i would know... i swear, it wasn't me it was my brother... "vamos a la playa"

im on the same page as vahermit and morgan

M.E.N.S.A. - My ego, not surpassed anywhere

[Spiritus Mundi]

I am not a member, but I can understand the urge that prompts some people to join. I enjoy discusisons about mathematics, philosophy, art, programming, history, comic books, combat, sports, poetry, variations in unix implementaions, movies, animals, religion, kinesthetics, etc. There have been times in my life when it was not easy find a knowledgable partner for some of those conversations. I never tried mensa, but if some folks find it a good place to meet interesting people with diverse interests then I say good for them.

Is it "exclusive"? Sure. So what?

[Diagonal Twin]

Like Groucho Marx said, I wouldn't want to join a club that would have me as a member.

[Grendel69]

But i had to move three days ago. Not much time.

Anyways, I think Morgan has the most comprehensible, not frothing at the mouth, relatively coherent summary of MENSA.

The original root of my MENSA hatred is from high school. One of the more academic kids in my class became a MENSA-ite. He would attempt to defend a position, even if he knew it was wrong, simply so he could garner attention, posture in front of the class, and demonstrate a superiority. Needless to say the kid was an ass. He would take a stance (say being Pro-Mcnamara's Vietnam Conflict policy) and defend it vigorously (something that I admire), BUT there would never be any concessions. He would state that the US was correct in its actions in 'Nam and martial all the relevant facts. When anyone would question him, he would disregard their facts, act for a perfect source (difficult to do in class with no internet in front of ya') and claim that it was all untrue. There was no gray area for him. It was all black and white.
Now, obviously all the MENSA-ites aren't like him. But I think it demonstrates a pertinent point about things like MENSA. There is no soul in it. The test itself is vapid. As Morgan said, its most puzzles. Anagrams and trick questions, and number series, etc. The test is like some horrid version of of the SAT for grownups.




(note: This is the same kid whose parents, grandparents on both sides, sister, and brother all went to Harvard).

[Lynn Bodoni]

Now, obviously all the MENSA-ites aren't like him. But I think it demonstrates a pertinent point about things like MENSA. There is no soul in it.

I think that MOST Ms are not like the guy you're talking about. For crying out loud, he was a teenage boy! And as for soul...in Mensa, as with many other things, you get out what you put in.

It's just a social club with a rather quirky way of choosing who it lets in. I liked it because when I went to a meeting, I was fairly sure that I'd be able to find someone interesting to talk to.

[Grendel69]

A teenager he most certainly was not!!! Whenever he walked the halls there was a fould stench of brimstone. He was the devil incarnate. Old Scratch, Beelzebub, Lucifer...Man what an awful human being.

Anyways, you are right. Most of them/you aren't like that (at least to such an extreme degree...

What am I saying?!?!?! Burn in hell MENSA scum. Come on everybody! Who is with me? <<Insert sounds of crickets chirping and pins dropping) Ahhhh fuggedaboutit...

[Olentzero]

Ex-Mensan here... belonged once for approximately a year in 1994. Didn't really get much out of it, save for getting laid once by a fellow Mensan. Of course, there wasn't much happening in DC as far as Mensa activities - most of it was out in the 'burbs beyond the reach of the Metro and I didn't have a car. Maybe I'd get more out of it now, but then again I have the SDMB and Pyroto online, and the family and my political group (and some upcoming translation classes) in real life. Which I get a lot out of as it is.

On the other hand, I remember reading a testimonial from one high school kid who joined Mensa and said it was like a breath of fresh air - meeting people he could relate to much more easily, and using that to learn how he could turn his keen intellect into something that didn't alienate the other students at his school. I could have used that.

Having said that, I will definitely defend Mensa's right to exist and to admit whoever it wants to based on whatever criteria it chooses to establish. Any organization is going to have its share of obnoxious prigs and I certainly didn't see that the locals here in DC had a disproportionate number.

A lot of clubs are exclusive. A lot more aren't. It depends on what the point of the organization is and how its members perceive themselves and the organization.

[Formerly Bandersnatch]

Every M you met was a jerk, therefore all M's are jerks. Don't generalize or anything. I'm currently a lapsed member. And primarily because when I moved to the area, one of the first mailings I received announced the renaming of the local newsletter to The Brainiac. My first thought was I'd rather not associate with that kind of pretentious boor. And just never bothered renewing. The local I was a member of in Boulder, Co, had some of the nicest people I'd ever met. They were just people. We played games, had dinners, went bowling. And they didn't care in the least what your IQ was. Or even if you were a member. It was fun. Pure and simple. I'm eligible obviously. But so what. I'm just a guy. I've crawled through the mud with a rifle, washed dishes, towed car, flipped burgers, installed mainframe OS's. And I usually do well on tests. Perhaps I'm doing the M local here in Omaha a diservice by not walking into a meeting and asking "who the fuck came up with that newsletter name?". Like is always said. You get out of it, what you put into it. Perhaps these people need a little bit of earthy advice.

[NTM]

Icefalcon is NOT a puppet just because he says something embarassing (in this case, that he's smart) in a first post.
So Trollbusters, Back Off!

[andros]

That's quite a chip on your shoulder, NTM.

[Formerly Bandersnatch]

Actually I don't think I said I was smart. Just that I'm eligible for Mensa membership. To me it just means I do well on tests. My point, if I had one, is that just because the entry requirements are scoring in the top 2% of a standardized test, it doesn't mean that Mensa is a collection of elitists. It's just a criteria. There are many organizations I can't join because I don't meet their admission requirements. Should I cry elitism?? M's are just people with a common link. And as for the argument that if we're so smart why aren't we rich, I think Scott Adams said it best. "It doesn't really have any practical application" Hard work will get you much further.

[Grendel69]

I think this argument about "elitism" hasn't been fleshed out. A white Jew can't apply for a scholarship aimed at African Americans. Does this mean the scholarship program is elitist? Maybe and maybe not.

I think the word elitist is being thrown around because the criteria used for MENSA membership are questions on a standardized exam. Answering these questions correctly grants one membership in an organization that supposedly is the creme de la creme of intellectualism. Yet the questions are rather silly. Pattern identification involving number sequences and such. Truthfully, most of the questions are trick questions. So... the group that defines itself as being the creme de la creme of intellectualism is using trick questions and puzzles that could conceivably be found in the NY Times Sunday edition????? Does this strike anyone as bizarre that such a limited set of criteria are used to determine intellectual capacity?????


I think some of the social benfits mentioned by Spiritus Mundi and others are understandable.

(wait for it......................)

BUT, I think that's a dangerous line to toe if one is going to assert that MENSA is not exclusive. "I can't find anyone with whom to talk about UNIX, thus I join MENSA." certainly will be interpreted by some as being a polite way of saying "99% of the people around me are borderline retarded. I need someone of my own intellect."

Now I don't think that's what madame moderator Lynn or Icefalcon were really saying, but I suspect that it might be true for a lot of MENSA members.

Note: I have interacted with more than just one MENSA member. This entire diatribe isn't based on one isolated experience...

[Formerly Bandersnatch]

Grendel, I certainly won't try to argue that Mensa is not exclusive. It obviously is. There is another group that takes the top 1%. That excludes me. But I really don't care. If a group has criteria that must be met for membership, then it's exclusive. Before I was an NCO, I couldn't go to the NCO club.

Elitist? That's more difficult to define. To me that's an attitude. Have I seen that in Mensa? Yep. Do I think it's prevalent. No. But my experience is not wide spread. I've read various articles in newsletters and magazines (Mensan) that indicates to me that most Mensans just like to have fun. But there are snobs. There are snobs everywhere. But I figure if somebody thinks he's better than me, because he has a higher IQ, fuck 'em.

I think my entire point is to not judge an organization by a few asshole members. And the more I think about it, I might just re-join, walk into the local meeting dressed like a slob (as I usually am), and shout "WASSUP? Where's the keg?".

And this doesn't even touch the discussion about what is IQ, and does it really mean anything?

[FreakFreely]

Joined Mensa as a youth, met some helpful compassionate mentors, bless thier hearts, they did me a world of good, if nothing else exposing me to the pleasure of being with people smarter than me. Checked in five years later, and once again at ten and, eh, no biggy. One thing I did learn: if you're in Mensa and havent told anybody, dont! It pisses people off, and I mean universally. Non-members, check it out, experiment. Let it slip in a bar conversation with a stranger, for example, that you are in Mensa. Bet you drachma to dipthongs you get an immediate hostile response. Odd, isnt it? Brag you can bench-press 300lbs, cool, you're a sex machine, they ask for detail, brag that you got a high IQ and they istantly hate your guts.

Mostly: intelligence isn't a virtue, it is merely a characteristic. Compassion, patience,...those are virtues.

[Grendel69]

in hope that there was no sarcasm in that reply...YUP YUP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Formerly Bandersnatch]

Odd, isnt it? Brag you can bench-press 300lbs, cool, you're a sex machine, they ask for detail, brag that you got a high IQ and they istantly hate your guts.

Mostly: intelligence isn't a virtue, it is merely a characteristic. Compassion, patience,...those are virtues.

FreakFreely, I couldn't agree more. Your first statement is supported by Grendel's opening remarks. That's one thing that I learned early. Sort of a "don't ask, don't tell" philosphy. For that matter, you get less of a reaction if you say you're gay. And besides, if you brag about your IQ, you're sure to follow it immediately by doing something stupid.

Something just occured to me. And after almost 49 years, it's somewhat of a shock. Perhaps I became an underachiever simply to avoid being set apart. Society seems to hate those who appear to be smarter. Beaten as a child, harrased as a teen, ostracized as an adult. A bumper sticker seems to be making the rounds that supports this concept. "My kid beat up your honor roll student" I absolutely detest this.

Grendel, perhaps this explains why people join Mensa. You know that you're among people that won't look down upon you simply because you do well on tests. That everyone around you has been through the same thing. That when someone calls you a nerd, a freak, or a geek, it's said with a smile. You hate Mensa because they won't let you join? Your answer is violence? Perhaps you didn't catch FreakFreely's comment on compassion.

[Balduran]

I think I have to agree with Grendel on this,

We played games, had dinners, went bowling. And they didn't care in the least what your IQ was. Or even if you were a member. It was fun. Pure and simple.

If they didn't care in the least what your IQ was, then why have a test? I'm sure they were very nice to those people that weren't members, but I wouldn't be suprised if the non-members felt like they were being looked down on.

I can understand the urge that prompts some people to join. I enjoy discusisons about mathematics, philosophy, etc.

Is it "exclusive"? Sure. So what?

and

I will definitely defend Mensa's right to exist and to admit whoever it wants to based on whatever criteria it chooses to establish.

What about the poor spuds like me who like to talk about these things too but can't pass the test?

The main difference between MENSA and the Menudo fan club is the fan club is open to everybody who has an interest. MENSA is not, and the criteria to get in is a test that is used to tell how "smart" someone is. Now, MENSANS may not feel the test is a big deal and they're really nice people who just want to have a good time, but that is because they passed it. To the rest of us you are saying "you're not good enough to join".

Fine, you have a right to exist, but we have a right to get a little steamed about your selection criteria.

You hate Mensa because they won't let you join? ... Perhaps you didn't catch FreakFreely's comment on compassion.

Yes, we should love the MENSANS for telling us we're too stupid to talk to them. Perhaps you should read FreakFreely's comment again too.

[Balduran]

Odd, isnt it? Brag you can bench-press 300lbs, cool, you're a sex machine, they ask for detail, brag that you got a high IQ and they istantly hate your guts.

Mostly: intelligence isn't a virtue, it is merely a characteristic. Compassion, patience,...those are virtues.

You've answered your question above. It's cool that they can bench 300 because it is something you could do if you worked really hard. So you admire the guy's determination. When they're bragging about a characteristic that you don't have you'll get pissed because there's nothing you can do to match it. Think about someone bragging they're better looking than you and how you'd react.

[Morgan]

/me checks around to make sure we are in the BBQ pit.

You are all idiots.

I can just hear you whining. “Nobody likes me when I brag about my IQ.” You really aren’t the sharpest knives in the drawer, are you?

News flash: Nobody likes a braggart.

Odd, isnt it? Brag you can bench-press 300lbs, cool, you're a sex machine, they ask for detail, brag that you got a high IQ and they istantly [sic] hate your guts.

What is really odd is that someone can make a stupid claim like this and nobody points out the obvious flaw.

Yes, I’ve met people who say stupid things like “Me bench 300 lbs” or “I’ve been with a dozen different women in as many weeks.” These people are socially inept. Bragging is always inappropriate. If someone asks you how much you can bench, or what you got on your SATs, then, if you really want to, go ahead and answer the question. Otherwise, keep your mouth closed.

Once again, proof that being able to solve certain types of puzzles has nothing to do with intelligence.

[elucidator]

[quote]
You are all idiots.

You really aren’t the sharpest knives in the drawer, are you?

This unworthy one humbly beseeches the luminescent Himself. Permit me to bask in the Wisdom. Consider the following:

Once again, proof that being able to solve certain types of puzzles has nothing to do with intelligence.

Well, then, what attribute does puzzle-solving ability relate to? Manual dexterity? Binocular vision?

While it is very likely a mistake to define intelligence as problem-solving, to flatly state that it has nothing to do with it is bong-water dumb. Dumb as a barrel of hair, dumb as a box of rocks. Certainly we cannot actually define intelligence, as such, but we're reasonably sure it has something to do it being able to figure out stuff. Not much debate on that one. Pretty much a concensus.

Yes, we are all idiots. And we saved you a seat.

[Morgan]

Well, I could defend my over-reaching exaggeration (which was clearly inserted for emphasis, and not to be taken literally) by explaining that intelligence is "the ability to adapt effectively to an environment either by making a change in oneself or by changing the environment or finding a new one," Britanica, and the environment at issue is a free-market democratic society. I would then explain that in such an environment obtaining wealth is the obvious way to adapt, since money can ensure that all the fundamental biological imperatives are met in the best possible manner. My conclusion would obviously be that the tools needed to obtain wealth has very little to do with puzzle solving ability and much more to do with socialization skills, innovation, and tenacity. By Mensa’s own admission its members are very diverse in their socioeconomic standings, therefore not all people of high IQ are able to adapt effectively to the environment around them.

Like I said, I could say all that. But, instead, I’ll just sit down next to everyone else. Thanks for saving me a seat.