GLBT National Day of Silence: Shut the Fuck Up!

The BBQ Pit
1

I am an openly gay professor at a small liberal arts college/university in Georgia. I am active in the fight to add sexual orientation to the state’s non-discrimination policies and especially to the university’s hypocritical “we embrace diversity [but spousal benefits & non discrimination for homos? get real]” policies. When I learned that the newly formed GLBT student society was manning a booth today I was glad and decided to go by and show support, assuming it would be a booth with info on the organization, perhaps a petition of some sort and maybe a rainbow flag or two, and I was even expecting a standard deviation or two of misguided student activism just as you have in other college-students-with-causes booths.

Instead, the booth (the first public presence of the GBLT group) was dedicated to the National Day of Silence. Alright, the difference between the kid from Life Goes On and this nonsense is that Corky didn’t have a choice about being retarded but these people did.

Here’s the booth: it’s draped in black cloth while two male and two female students man it wearing black gags (not ball gags, but just south of). They are pinning cheesy pink felt triangles on the few people who stop there. If people ask questions they nod or shake their head but will not talk. They have really poorly copied (and grammatically incorrect) sheets telling of hate-crimes against gays.

M-kay…

WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SUPPOSED TO ACCOMPLISH? Yes, I know that hate crimes exist- I’ve little doubt they always will and against a wide variety of demographic minorities- but your goal here is visibility and acceptance. You’re making the defining essence of homosexuality one of persecution and victimhood by this showing, and you’re not going to get there with an accusatory stance looking like a bunch of bondage freaks pinning symbols of oppression of a sort I guarantee you’ve never endured on passersby.

I honestly believe that cheap theatrical stunts by activists are at best impotent and at most detrimental to their cause (and do you honesty think that Jiang gives a fuck what a few college students in Georgia think of his Tibet policies?). This is just a frigging no-brainer. You don’t see the Black Student Union pinning little Klan hoods on passersby and communicating only with their feet, or Jewish students pinning little felt-stars on folks and only speaking Yiddish, and that’s because they know that playing up their historic victimhood is the first way to be seen as victims (and preachy).

I’ve been gay longer than these kids have been alive, since the only gay organization on most colleges was the Theater Department, and to borrow a line from the movie Opposite of Sex,

So please take my advice- you want to do something for the cause of gay acceptance? Start with these:

1- Learn all you can about gay history and gay rights issues
2- Learn how your government works
3- Learn the main arguments and assertions of the religious right and other homophobes and how to combat them with logic and reason (and which are outright lies)
4- Loosen up
5- Live openly- let people who know you think “____ is gay… and s/he ain’t so bad”
6- Smile.
7- Talk.

But do not, repeat DO NOT, mistake the anti-gay elements in 21st century America with the anti-gay elements of Nazi Germany. There’s a slight distinction between being forbidden to marry and having to fight for orientation based discrimination, unfair as it is, and being sent to concentration camps after getting the everloving shit beaten out you in the street by uniformed soldiers who could just as easily have cut your throat in front of a street full of witnesses with complete impunity. THE HOLOCAUST IS NOT TO BE TAKEN LIGHTLY- don’t make a comparison when there’s not one.

And don’t do drugs and stuff.

Seacrest out.

2

You’re a college professor and you haven’t figured out that the salient characteristic of a college-student-activist is an utter lack of humor and a freakishly large dose of drama?

I look back on my student-activist days and I can’t help but shake my head and laugh. Bitter anger, morose bleakness, ultimate victimhood, utter hatred of the “privileged”…that’s student activism. It’s been student activism since at least the mid-80s.

They grow out of it eventually…

3

Sheesh, Sampiro. Such vitriol aimed at members of your own community who chose to take action in the fight for recognition and acceptence. Just because they chose a tactic different from one you would (if you would take action) does not really justify your excoriation of their attempts to fight discrimination.

Before I continue, let me point out that I am not gay or transgender, just a pretty typical WASP type male, who happens to think that a persons choice of sexual partner is their business. I recently participated in a wedding ceremony of two neat women. I begged to be the flower girl, and got to skip down the isle (all 6’ 200 lbs of me) in a sundress tossing flower petals. My wife was a little uncomfortable, but she got over it. It was a beautiful ceremony despite my campy performance.

Having tried to establish that I am not some gaybashing homophobe I would like to state the following:

If you are concerned about the issues why were you not involved at an earlier stage so you could have helped determine the strategy or form of protest. It seems kind of nasty to not participate or take action and just complain about the actions of others. At least they are trying to do something. Would it not be more productive for you to make contact with the students and offer some type of assistence or guidance. Seems like that would be more beneficial to your goals than criticizing the students just because they chose a tactic you do not like.

You then state (From some where way beyond left field)

I have no idea how to adress the part about Jiang and Tibet. You just tossed it in out of the blue. I do not understand how it is relevant to gay student activists seeking to make others aware of the discrimination the are subjected to.

Then you go one to say that they should take your advice. It seems a bit silly for you to address us, would it not be more productive for you to address you plea to the students in question?

Next you admonish US (not the students) to learn about “Gay History” is it different than regular old history? I mean the plight of homosexuals seems to be part of plain old history. To designate “gay history” smacks of victimhood to me.

You then say:

[QUOTE]
3- Learn the main arguments and assertions of the religious right and other homophobes and how to combat them with logic and reason (and which are outright lies)

My first question concerns the parenthetical- “and which are outright lies” my question is, Which, what? Secondly what good does it do to try to argue logic with religious biggots, their beliefs are not based on logic therefore you can’t defeat them with logic. Would it not be better to just ignore those who will never accept you and focus on the accepting but so far apathetic people?

then you say

[QUOTE]
Live openly- let people who know you think “____ is gay… and s/he ain’t so bad” It would be better to live with integrity and yes openly, and be thought of as a good person period. Not as a gay who ain’t so bad.

Again, your comments about the Holocaust seem plucked out of thin air. Who was comparing the plight of gays in 2004 America to that of gays in 1930’s Nazi Germany? Did I miss something?

you sign off with

My only comment is I remember college professors as slightly more eloquent. Things have really changed.

I don’t mean to be insulting, I just felt you were a little harsh on the students. I hope you accept my comments for what they are worth. Which is absolutely nothing. If I have offended you please tell me how and I will either attempt to clarify and if I can’t then I will offer my apologies.

PS. OT but I always kind of thought “Gay and Lesbian” was kind of redundant. Does not the term Gay encompass both Lesbians and Homosexual men?

4

Originally when “gay” came into widespread usage it encompassed male and female. As the feminist movement gained steam at roughly the same time as the gay liberation movement there was a strong surge in lesbian separatism and many “gay women” stopped identifying a “gay” and began identifying as “lesbian.” Certainly lesbians identified as such prior to women’s lib but it was the separatist movement and the attempt to appear more inclusive of women and “women’s issues” that led many G organizations to add the L to their acronyms. Later to be joined by B, T, sometimes Q (questioning) and in the case of Gay-Straight Alliances and GLSEN, S.

Makes one long for the good old days when we were all “homophiles.”

5

I guess I don’t understand your frustration with this manifestation, Sampiro. It seems a little harsh for people who are on your side.

I don’t see what you’re saying about defining homosexuality in terms of persecution and victimhood. Surely there’s a time for that? Surely we don’t have to pretend that everything is okay in order to avoid making the general public uncomfy?

And “historic victimhood?” Um, Yom ha-Shoah is this week. You’ve heard of the Nazi persecution of Queer people, naturally, but the average citizen has not. When I was in cegep, I was invited as the facilitator of the Queer group on that campus to put together a display for the Yom ha-Shoah display as well. If that was “playing on historic victimhood,” I suppose Hillel, the group that organized the display, was as well.

Are you arguing that the symbolism they used to denounce persecution of Queer people was counterproductive? If so, why don’t you join their group and offer support and insight that might help them undertake actions you regard as helpful to the cause, rather than snarl at them? They are your allies, you know.

6

Thanks Otto. I really was just curious. :slight_smile:

7

What did they accomplish? If anything they made people less inclined to gay visibility- as said, they were wearing black gags and refused to communicate other than with a nod or head-shake. Futile gestures are by definition no better than no gestures at all.

Oh how nice… celebrate diversity by acting like a Mel Brooks movie depiction of a flaming fag. What’s next: black-face for a NAACP fundraiser?

Not to mention, black people love you.

Valid question. There are several reasons, but the most important are that I’m already overextended in faculty responsibilities due to participation in umpteen committees (the scourge of academica) overseeing a massive move project as the library takes possession of a new building. I’ve been involved in the past (in fact I founded the first GLBT student org at the last college where I was employed) intend to be more involved in the future.

[QUOTE]
At least they are trying to do something. /QUOTE]

There is no try or try not, young Skywalker.

I intend to do this, but I’ll have no time before summer. I have made contact with their faculty sponsor offering my services after June.

It’s a poorly placed comment on the ineffectiveness of ill-informed and impotent gestures through student activism. (Most colleges have a “Free Tibet” movement manned mainly by students who can’t point to where Tibet is on an unmarked map and can’t discuss the Communist takeover with any degree of depth greater than “it was bad” and seem completely oblivious to the fact that Tibet before the Communists wasn’t exactly a land of plenty and satisfaction.

Again, I intend to.

  1. The gay students aren’t on this MB (to my knowledge) any more than the various neighbors, bosses and co-workers other Pitters are pitting are here.

  2. Your view of history is… interesting. You really need to share it with the trustees of some of the universities across the world who seem to suffer from the delusion that military history is a field distinct from Russian history is a field distinct from women’s history is a field distinct from economic history is a field distinct from U.S. Civil War history is a field distinct from ancient history is a field distinct from political history is a field distinct from black history is a field distinct from etc etc ad nauseum. All of history is just “plain old history”… too bad you weren’t on my thesis committee or I wouldn’t have been nearly as nervous.

A valid point about lack of clarity. It should have read to the effect of “learn the main arguments and assertions of the religious right (including which are outright lies)”, meaning distinguish rhetorical and religiously based argumentation from that based on the “studies” of Paul Cameron, for example.

I agree and disagree. It is true that you are not likelty to change the minds of fanatics, but you can change the minds of people who have been reared by fanatics or of those who are on the fence. However, you are NOT going to change their minds by refusing to speak to them or by recitation of uninformed rhetoric. As for ignoring “those who will never accept you”, I mean no offense when I say that you can’t really understand without being gay why that’s not easy to do just as I as a white man can never fully empathize with how a black person feels when they’re called a ‘nigger’ or pulled over by cops for no apparent reason. When the passionate philippics are about you, they’re harder to ignore, and while you’re not likely to change the minds of the Falwellians and the Bushites out there, by learning to combat their rhetoric you will at least be a bit more empowered and sure of your own worth in a knowledge = power kind’a’thing (an argument Malcolm X used to encourage black Americans to study black history; being uneducated, Malcolm was unaware that all history is one and there’s really no such thing as black history).

I don’t really understand your point. Gays who live lives of integrity are going to be seen as “gays with integrity”- the same for other minorities. They should just be seen as “Mark, Rick or Steve, the nice guy who works at the mall”, but they’re not.

I said very clearly that they were pinning cheesy pink triangles on people who stopped to ask for information. While we’ve established that your view of history is a bit less complicated than mine, you are familiar with the historical significance of the pink triangle aren’t you?

You are aware that this is “The Pit”, jein? If you were reading one of my essays or attending one of my lectures or reading my prose then you’d be reading something a bit more eloquent. This, however, is a rant, the Pit being the place for good ol’ take-your-shoes-off-and-bitch-a-spell semi-anonymous rantings, not scholarly or lyrical exposition.

But, to feed your appetite for eloquence I’ll say “Fuck you, and I sing the body electric”.

Just because you’ve called me ineloquent, hypocritical, belligerent, partisan with no understanding of history while establishing your credentials as a Friend of a Friend of Dorothy by stating that you acted like a stereotypical fag at a lesbian wedding, why would I be insulted?

Technically, but since gay men and women have separate as well as common issues they’ve divided somewhat, coming together in alliance when needed. Sometimes this gets a tad ridiculous: when I was at the University of Alabama I attended one (1) meeting of the Gay Student Association (it’s name at the beginning of the meeting) and they literally changed names about 4 (four) times during that one (1) meeting, opting for “Gay & Lesbian Alliance”, then trading that in favor of “Gay, Lesbian & Transsexual” Alliance to include Transsexuals, then adding in “Transgender” to add in those who weren’t transsexual but preferred to self identify as members of the opposite sex, and finally tacking on “and Friends”. My own friend Susan petitioned to change it to “GLBT & Friends & Susan” since she wasn’t gay or a BLT and wasn’t friends with the entire group, just me, but they respectfully declined.

8

What did they accomplish? If anything they made people less inclined to gay visibility- as said, they were wearing black gags and refused to communicate other than with a nod or head-shake. Futile gestures are by definition no better than no gestures at all.

Oh how nice… celebrate diversity by acting like a Mel Brooks movie depiction of a flaming fag. What’s next: black-face for a NAACP fundraiser?

Not to mention, black people love you.

Valid question. There are several reasons, but the most important are that I’m already overextended in faculty responsibilities due to participation in umpteen committees (the scourge of academica) & I’m overseeing a massive move project as the library takes possession of a new building. I’ve been involved in the past (in fact I founded the first GLBT student org at the last college where I was employed) intend to be more involved in the future.

[QUOTE]
At least they are trying to do something. /QUOTE]

There is no try or try not, young Skywalker.

I intend to do this, but I’ll have no time before summer. I have made contact with their faculty sponsor offering my services after June.

It’s a poorly placed comment on the ineffectiveness of ill-informed and impotent gestures through student activism. (Most colleges have a “Free Tibet” movement manned mainly by students who can’t point to where Tibet is on an unmarked map and can’t discuss the Communist takeover with any degree of depth greater than “it was bad” and seem completely oblivious to the fact that Tibet before the Communists wasn’t exactly a land of plenty and satisfaction.

Again, I intend to.

  1. The gay students aren’t on this MB (to my knowledge) any more than the various neighbors, bosses and co-workers other Pitters are pitting are here.

  2. Your view of history is… interesting. You really need to share it with the trustees of some of the universities across the world who seem to suffer from the delusion that military history is a field distinct from Russian history is a field distinct from women’s history is a field distinct from economic history is a field distinct from U.S. Civil War history is a field distinct from ancient history is a field distinct from political history is a field distinct from black history is a field distinct from etc etc ad nauseum. All of history is just “plain old history”… too bad you weren’t on my thesis committee or I wouldn’t have been nearly as nervous.

A valid point about lack of clarity. It should have read to the effect of “learn the main arguments and assertions of the religious right (including which are outright lies)”, meaning distinguish rhetorical and religiously based argumentation from that based on the “studies” of Paul Cameron, for example.

I agree and disagree. It is true that you are not likelty to change the minds of fanatics, but you can change the minds of people who have been reared by fanatics or of those who are on the fence. However, you are NOT going to change their minds by refusing to speak to them or by recitation of uninformed rhetoric. As for ignoring “those who will never accept you”, I mean no offense when I say that you can’t really understand without being gay why that’s not easy to do just as I as a white man can never fully empathize with how a black person feels when they’re called a ‘nigger’ or pulled over by cops for no apparent reason. When the passionate philippics are about you, they’re harder to ignore, and while you’re not likely to change the minds of the Falwellians and the Bushites out there, by learning to combat their rhetoric you will at least be a bit more empowered and sure of your own worth in a knowledge = power kind’a’thing (an argument Malcolm X used to encourage black Americans to study black history; being uneducated, Malcolm was unaware that all history is one and there’s really no such thing as black history).

I don’t really understand your point. Gays who live lives of integrity are going to be seen as “gays with integrity”- the same for other minorities. They should just be seen as “Mark, Rick or Steve, the nice guy who works at the mall”, but they’re not.

I said very clearly that they were pinning cheesy pink triangles on people who stopped to ask for information. While we’ve established that your view of history is a bit less complicated than mine, you are familiar with the historical significance of the pink triangle aren’t you?

You are aware that this is “The Pit”, jein? If you were reading one of my essays or attending one of my lectures or reading my prose then you’d be reading something a bit more eloquent. This, however, is a rant, the Pit being the place for good ol’ take-your-shoes-off-and-bitch-a-spell semi-anonymous rantings, not scholarly or lyrical exposition.

But, to feed your appetite for eloquence I’ll say “Fuck you, and I sing the body electric”.

Just because you’ve called me ineloquent, hypocritical, belligerent, partisan with no understanding of history while establishing your credentials as a Friend of a Friend of Dorothy by stating that you acted like a stereotypical fag at a lesbian wedding, why would I be insulted?

Technically, but since gay men and women have separate as well as common issues they’ve divided somewhat, coming together in alliance when needed. Sometimes this gets a tad ridiculous: when I was at the University of Alabama I attended one (1) meeting of the Gay Student Association (it’s name at the beginning of the meeting) and they literally changed names about 4 (four) times during that one (1) meeting, opting for “Gay & Lesbian Alliance”, then trading that in favor of “Gay, Lesbian & Transsexual” Alliance to include Transsexuals, then adding in “Transgender” to add in those who weren’t transsexual but preferred to self identify as members of the opposite sex, and finally tacking on “and Friends”. My own friend Susan petitioned to change it to “GLBT & Friends & Susan” since she wasn’t gay or a BLT and wasn’t friends with the entire group, just me, but they respectfully declined.

9

Sorry for the double posting above; it happens to all men after a certain age.

It’s precisely because we’re on the same side that I’m frustrated; had this been the Baptist Student Union or Students for a Free Tibet staging some weird and pointless “look at me” fest, I’d have just chuckled to myself and walked on.

But to pin Rosenwinkels on those who stopped while refusing to talk to them?

Again, nobody “heard” of it from these students- they were silent and the literature they passed out didn’t even mention what the Rosenwinkel was. Besides which, not to even slightly disparage what happened to the gays under Paragraph 175 (in fact, imo to compare the discrimination against gays today to the plight of Hirschfeld and company IS to disparage them) there are more immediate and pragmatic concerns in Georgia today- the state legislature has just approved a referendum on whether gay marriage should be banned in the state constitution for instance. THIS, as well as Georgia’s refusal to add orientation to non-discrimination policies, is what should be protested and acted against.
Now, had the Jewish Student Union or any other organization elected to have booths and displays for Yom ha-Shoah, then by all means it would be in place for gays to participate- that’s a particularly overlooked chapter of the Holocaust- but not a stand alone performance art piece of masturbatory attention getting.

Unless you’re working on a Gibson movie get off the cross; AGAIN, had this been part of a Holocaust display then their actions would have been appropriate. It wasn’t. And also AGAIN, had their purposes been to inform then they wouldn’t have been gagged and silent.

I do intend to become active as soon as I can. How exactly anonymously "snarl"ing at them on a message board THAT EXISTS STRICTLY FOR THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT OF VOICING FRUSTRATIONS is undercutting them I’m not sure (in fact my reason for pitting them here is to blow off some steam so that I don’t bruise feelings by armchair quarterbacking the ineffectiveness of their debut outing to the sensitive egos of teenaged gays) I’m not sure, but excuse the Perrier outta me for having an opinion that could in any way state that not all gay activism is productive.

10

Well, Sampiro, if it matters, coming from a hetero female, I think your OP sounded literate and sensible, especially #5, and the paragraph that followed.

It sounds as if we might be roughly in the same age bracket, so I can understand the “kids these days” mindset. But jayjay was right, they will grow out of it.

11

Oh God, it’s finally happened: I’ve become Paul Lynde.

Kids! What’s the matter with kids today!
kids, who can understand anything they- don’t- say!

12

Sampiro, I right with you , brother. I wrote a much shorter post in a thread on this subject to the effect that maintaining silence is doing exactly what our enemies want. Does anyone think that Tom DeLay or John Ashcroft wants gay students to infrom, educate, and enlighten nongay folk about our issues? I’m quite sure they’re cackling to themselves about how those dumb college queers are making this fight too easy.

Askeptic: what **Sampiro said, doubled. If you were a Radical Faerie, your performance might have been acceptable. As it is, your wrong-headed show of “support” only further heloed to reinforce stereotypes for any nongay folks at the wedding, who would think themselves tolerant for being nice to big men who like to flounce around in dresses.

I support my androgynous borthers and sisters, but for you to do this was just tacky in the extreme.

signed,
Gobear, a total Kinsey 6 who would rather french John Ashcroft than wear a dress

13

Gobear, sugar, I am sending the bill for the industrial chemicals it’s going to take to get that image out of my brain.

Robin

14

Sampiro, does the student group have a faculty advisor? Are they looking for one? Would a faculty advisor sensitive to these issues help them out?

15

I would venture to say that, like most beginner activists, these students’ hearts were in the right places, just their heads were up their asses. As was said in Priam’s thread (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=252146), the sentiment behind the gesture was worthwhile, the execution is just a little awkward.

It sounds as though they’ve latched on to some easily visible symbolism and thrown it all together into a hodge-podge protest - and I think this kind of slipshod organization is typical of beginners. They’re not educated enough to be effective, but their outrage and sympathy is probably sincere.

16

Paul Lynde was gay?!

If I’d’a known that, I never would have laughed at his jokes. Thank God we’ve got Bruce Vilanch as the center square now.

17

I think you should change the name to “Friends of the BLT”, so I can join. Because I love BLTs.

Especially when the tomatoes are home-grown - not those store-bought things.

Then you could be really inclusive. Have a National Day of Silence for vegans, for all the tomatoes who have died in our nation’s diners, one for Orthodox Jews for the pigs, PETA just so they don’t feel left out, and (especially) for gay/lesbian/bisexual/transgender/transvestite/metrosexual/people who are gay but have no sense of style/Barbra fans who aren’t gay (both of them)/straights who like show tunes/those who are faking it because their roommates need the toaster who would willingly give gays everything they want if askeptic will promise never to post the image of him in a dress again.

Regards,
Shodan

18

Sorry to hijack but that’s simply not true. The gay male experience and the Lesbian experience were quite different from the late 1800s until the modern political gay movement (the one manifesting around the AIDS crisis). While they may have congregated together, they were not homogenous, and didn’t have very much in common. Gay men and women uniting to lobby is a very new idea. Traditionally, the progress of men’s rights and women’s rights have been disproportionate enough (race and gender issues of suffrage for example) to cause tension.

The main feminist movement of the 1970s froze out lesbians, not to mention women of color and working class women. While there may have been a concurrent lesbian movement, it accomplished little more than a body of distopian fiction by the likes of Lisa Alther and Jane Rule, quickly trampled by the arrival of the 1980s.

Are you sure you’re cut out for your job? You don’t seem to grasp the simultaneous empowerment/impotence existence of 18 year olds who finally get a chance be unleashed upon the world to make a difference and no real tools (money, access) to accomplish their goals. What college small liberal arts college hasn’t heard of the National Day of Silence? LifeOnWry’s link is very relevant.

19

I agree with you, Sampiro. I’m not going to go the trite route and shake my head at these kids these days because I’m not that old myself, but I think you have every right to feel exasperated.

Just curious, if you don’t mind, where do you teach?

20

Of course that takes out the gays, but then otoh tomatoes are technically fruits, so that puts them back in again.

Ah, but it wouldn’t work- sooner or later some Muslim or orthodox Jewish or Vegan kid would be offended by the reference to bacon. Pity.

I am quite positive I’m cut out for my job, and I’m proud to say that seems to be the nearly unanimous consensus of my students and peers. I also think that challenging the professional competency of another Doper is dirty pool even for the thread, so please don’t be offended if I invite you to service yourself in a manner most carnal and unenjoyable using diesel powered lawn implements.

I do understand that. I was 18 and gay and mad-as-hell once and it wasn’t that long ago (true there was no film then, but the chroniclers did a pretty good job of recording it on vellum). I’m was (and am) something of a drama queen to boot, but I also understood the difference in making a point and being a public spectacle. I don’t condemn these kids or anything close, but I happen to think that a liberal arts education is the time to start exercising some reasoning and critical thinking skills, and even for an 18 year old from a not-great educational background However, even when I was 18 I could tell the difference between effective and ineffectual gestures, and I expect nothing less of these kids.

Somebody asked about the faculty advisor: actually I think that’s part of the problem. There are two: one is a very nice lady (lesbian) who I’m 99% sure just signs off as faculty sponsor and says “Have a nice day” (she’s stretched wwwaaaaay thin as it is) and the other defines the phrase “flaming liberal” (in the “silly professor, PETA is for kids” sort of way that makes even other liberals look at their watch and fumble for their keys) who probably thought that waving a Holocaust symbol was a great idea.

As mentioned, when I have time after this semester, I intend to become more active with the group. I want to see them address current and close-at-hand political issues and promote gay visibility without gimmicks.