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  #1  
Old 06-03-2004, 02:46 AM
Sandlegs Sandlegs is offline
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Onan, onani, the japanese language and mastrubation

ok, i have a language question for all of those that are fluent, and have much info on the japanese language. Onani is the word for mastrubation in the japanese language.

The question is, does onani have any connection to Onan, the man in the bible who "spilled his seed upon the earth"?

It's too close to be a coincedence.

could the Portugese missionaries have taught this to the Japanese, and it stayed a part of their language?
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  #2  
Old 06-03-2004, 03:24 AM
Sandlegs Sandlegs is offline
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crap, i hate to directly reply to my posts, but i think i have the answer.

onanism is the old way to say mastrubation, so, i am am guessing the japanese is totally connected to it, without a doubt.

sorry for the post and all



moderators, you may close this thread if you wish
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  #3  
Old 06-03-2004, 04:41 AM
Richard Pearse Richard Pearse is offline
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No no, I'm interested in hearing more about this "mastrubation".
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  #4  
Old 06-03-2004, 04:42 AM
Dunderman Dunderman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandlegs
The question is, does onani have any connection to Onan, the man in the bible who "spilled his seed upon the earth"?
Yes, just like Sodom - sodomy. Note that it is widely accepted that Onan did not in fact masturbate but perform a coitus interruptus.
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  #5  
Old 06-03-2004, 08:22 AM
JRDelirious JRDelirious is online now
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And before lifting "onani[sm]" from some Western language, Japanese must have had a homegrown terminology for referring to that activity, terminology that is likely still available for use as an alternative to "onani", but the latter word caught on.

Think of how English has the various expressions "sodomy", "anal sex", "buggery", "act against nature", etc., acquired at various points in history, to refer to one same act.
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  #6  
Old 06-03-2004, 09:33 AM
jovan jovan is offline
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Originally Posted by JRDelirious
And before lifting "onani[sm]" from some Western language, Japanese must have had a homegrown terminology for referring to that activity, terminology that is likely still available for use as an alternative to "onani", but the latter word caught on.
Onani was imported via German, or so my dictionary says. Other words include masutaabeeshon, shuin, jii, and some more. Onani is by far the most common, though.
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  #7  
Old 06-03-2004, 10:05 AM
NiceGuyJack NiceGuyJack is offline
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Yes, like jovan says it's from the German language. There are a few words in Japanese with German origins, onani being one and arubaito being another. There was a rather strong Prussian influence in the late 20's early 30's after Britain cancelled their alliance with Japan after WWI. There are still remnants today in other areas of that Prussian influence. The Japanese boys’ school uniforms are from that era when Japan revamped their education system. They looked to the west and adopted the Prussian education system of that time. Although the curriculum might have changed since WWII, the Prussian style uniforms remain.

Going back to the OP, I must confess, I am still curious why, out of all the German words available, would onani make it into the Japanese language? Did a Japanese administrator catch a German diplomat knocking one out in the bathroom? Anyone have an answer to that one would have my eternal respect as the undisputed king of useless facts.
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  #8  
Old 06-03-2004, 10:09 AM
tremorviolet tremorviolet is offline
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The Japanese love to take English (or other foreign words) and make them their own. Like beito for "part-time job", taken from the German word, arubeit. My favorite Japanese word is onapetto which means "onanism pet" or, literally, the image to which one masturbates. They also have onaidoru or "onanism idol" for those who masturbate thinking of pop stars. What fascinating, useful terminology!
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  #9  
Old 06-03-2004, 10:13 AM
jovan jovan is offline
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Originally Posted by NiceGuyJack
Did a Japanese administrator catch a German diplomat knocking one out in the bathroom? Anyone have an answer to that one would have my eternal respect as the undisputed king of useless facts.
Okay, I'll give it a shot. Japan imported a lot of medical know-how from Germany. To this day, there are many medical terms that have German roots, such as rentogen (x-ray) and karute (medical chart).

Anyway, onani came to Japan via psychology. Add in the mix Freud and co. and it's not surprising that a German word was adopted.
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  #10  
Old 06-03-2004, 10:20 AM
NiceGuyJack NiceGuyJack is offline
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Originally Posted by jovan
Okay, I'll give it a shot. Japan imported a lot of medical know-how from Germany. To this day, there are many medical terms that have German roots, such as rentogen (x-ray) and karute (medical chart).

Anyway, onani came to Japan via psychology. Add in the mix Freud and co. and it's not surprising that a German word was adopted.

But of course! Well I stand by my words. You are the undisputed king of useless facts in my book, and have gained my respect accordingly.
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  #11  
Old 06-03-2004, 10:36 AM
NiceGuyJack NiceGuyJack is offline
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Actually, taken in context, it's not really useless information...
It is cultural history.

jovan, you still have my respect.
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  #12  
Old 06-03-2004, 01:48 PM
emekthian emekthian is offline
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Quote:
The question is, does onani have any connection to Onan, the man in the bible who "spilled his seed upon the earth"?

It's too close to be a coincedence.
Not necessarily. While in this case it seems that "onani" actually was a borrowed term, it's quite possible for two words in unrelated languages to be the same or similar, and have the same meaning. There's an interesting web page about that here.
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  #13  
Old 06-03-2004, 03:32 PM
bizzwire bizzwire is offline
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I believe the home-grown Japanese term is senzuri-suru.

Don't ask me how I know this.
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  #14  
Old 06-03-2004, 05:21 PM
MelCthefirst MelCthefirst is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bizzwire
I believe the home-grown Japanese term is senzuri-suru.

Don't ask me how I know this.
This was the term that I heard most often when living there - worked with adolescent boys, what can I say! Meaning a thousand times - I always thought that it would take less than a 1000 times, so, has anyone ever or would they be willing to count next time they go on a date with Miss five fingers and then report back?
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  #15  
Old 06-03-2004, 05:38 PM
Tentacle Monster Tentacle Monster is offline
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I know very little Japanese. However, "thousand strokes" is a male-specific term. The female equivalent translates into "ten thousand strokes".

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
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  #16  
Old 06-03-2004, 10:02 PM
MelCthefirst MelCthefirst is offline
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Originally Posted by Tentacle Monster
I know very little Japanese. However, "thousand strokes" is a male-specific term. The female equivalent translates into "ten thousand strokes".

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
sen = 1000
suru = do

Not sure where you get 10,000?
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  #17  
Old 06-03-2004, 10:49 PM
tremorviolet tremorviolet is offline
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According to Japanee Street Slang by Petr Constantine, female masturbation is manzuri. Man is 10,000. Other terms include "omankosuri" (snatch rub), "temanko" (hand-snatch - you probably can deduce that "omanko" is the c-word), "bobowaru" (literally splitting the snatch), "nigiribobo" (grab snatch), and, my personal favorite, "yubizeme" which means "finger attack"...

The book also says "sutabeeshon", from a truncated "masturbation" has become popular amongst the youth (in 1992 anyway).
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  #18  
Old 06-04-2004, 12:12 AM
Aeschines Aeschines is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tremorviolet
According to Japanee Street Slang by Petr Constantine, female masturbation is manzuri. Man is 10,000. Other terms include "omankosuri" (snatch rub), "temanko" (hand-snatch - you probably can deduce that "omanko" is the c-word), "bobowaru" (literally splitting the snatch), "nigiribobo" (grab snatch), and, my personal favorite, "yubizeme" which means "finger attack"...

The book also says "sutabeeshon", from a truncated "masturbation" has become popular amongst the youth (in 1992 anyway).
Yeah, onani, a very stupid word (in its English or Japanese versions) is the most common term I've heard.

A warning about Japanese slang: it has a shelf-life of about two months. I'm not joking. Sometimes those "street Japanese" books have terms that went out in the 60s.

Another thing about slang here is that it's so divided into compartments. You have manga-slang that only people who read manga are going to get (or at least use), terms made popular by TV, pr0n slang, college slang, schoolgirl slang, etc.

I gave up a long time ago trying to keep track of it or even learn it, since it never lasts long and is usually just vulgar, mindless BS, anyway.
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  #19  
Old 06-04-2004, 01:04 AM
tremorviolet tremorviolet is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeschines
A warning about Japanese slang: it has a shelf-life of about two months. I'm not joking. Sometimes those "street Japanese" books have terms that went out in the 60s.

I gave up a long time ago trying to keep track of it or even learn it, since it never lasts long and is usually just vulgar, mindless BS, anyway.
Yeah, I kinda figured most of the stuff in this book is out of date but I find it amusing anyway. It's a lot like a book I picked up that designed for a Japanes student coming to America for the first time. Horrndously dated dialogue.

But I think even dated slang is still pretty interesting. Like "obatarian". What a fascinating etemology for a useful term. Is the term still used in Japan?

[offtopic] An obatarian is a middle-aged bossy battle-ax of a woman. The term was coined from th words "oba" (meaning "aunt") and batarian (or "battalion", a term which became popular after the 1970's George Romero zombie movies - Battalion was th Japanese title)[/totally off-topic]
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  #20  
Old 06-04-2004, 09:47 AM
jovan jovan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeschines
Another thing about slang here is that it's so divided into compartments. You have manga-slang that only people who read manga are going to get (or at least use), terms made popular by TV, pr0n slang, college slang, schoolgirl slang, etc.
And, also, there's the whole issue of regions that factors in too. A certain word might be all the rage amongst the Yokohama ganguro (my god, why did they have to come back?) while being completely un-heard of in Nagasaki.
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  #21  
Old 06-04-2004, 11:38 AM
Aeschines Aeschines is offline
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Originally Posted by jovan
And, also, there's the whole issue of regions that factors in too. A certain word might be all the rage amongst the Yokohama ganguro (my god, why did they have to come back?) while being completely un-heard of in Nagasaki.
I have no idea what this means, this word! What you say here is, of course, 100% true.

We are in IMHO territory, but so often I'll be with a group of Japanese people (like the company crowd, or whatever), and they are all riffing on pop culture--it's phrases from TV, blah etc. Sure, I "understand" the Japanese, but I don't really know what they're talking about, and I just don't have the energy to care any more.

Totally tuned out, my friend.
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  #22  
Old 06-04-2004, 11:45 AM
Aeschines Aeschines is offline
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Originally Posted by tremorviolet
But I think even dated slang is still pretty interesting. Like "obatarian". What a fascinating etemology for a useful term. Is the term still used in Japan?
Never, ever heard this one. Then again, I never really been into Japanese TV, manga, anime, pop novels, etc. Pop music, yes, so I've picked up a few obscure words from there.

Japanese is much different than English in unexpected ways. The vocabulary and style of writing/speaking is very different depending on the medium. There are the "shuukanshi" (weekly mags) that have a style all their own. I find a lot of their headlines incomprehensible on their ads when I read them on the train (using abbreviations or nicknames for celebrities, etc.).

Language in Japan is like a game without winners. The kind of consistency and stability we have in the US just doesn't exist here. For example, we can recall 60s US slang even if we didn't live back then; it has slowly but not totally left the picture: groovy, heavy man, etc. Japanese slang is too ephemeral to make such a lasting impression, and very, very little of pop culture survives very long. Especially now.
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  #23  
Old 06-06-2004, 06:18 AM
Chimpy Chimpy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MelCthefirst
sen = 1000
suru = do

Not sure where you get 10,000?

manzuri-suru
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  #24  
Old 06-07-2004, 04:56 PM
MelCthefirst MelCthefirst is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaiv
manzuri-suru
Ahh, thanks.

So how many does it actually take?
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  #25  
Old 06-07-2004, 10:52 PM
The Great Zamboni The Great Zamboni is offline
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Originally Posted by MelCthefirst
Ahh, thanks.

So how many does it actually take?
I'll see...
onetwothreefourfivesixseveneightnineteneleventwelvethirteenfourteen...
This'll be a while. I'll be back.
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My name is not taken from a Sir Ben Kingsley Character.
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