American Invasion

I am so sick and tired of hearing about how American movies, fast food, language etc. are damaging other cultures. I hear Americans say that we are imposing our culture on other nations, and I've heard non-Americans (the French come to mind) complain about American influence in their culture. Last I checked, the American governemnt wasn't forcing other nations to watch American films. If you don't want a McDonald's in your country then stop eating there! These are all capatalistic ventures fueled by supply and demand. If a country doesn't like the effects of American imports after they've been imported, that is their problem to deal with. Again, don't like the movies? Then don't go to the theater. If American businesses weren't making money overseas, they wouldn't be there.
My fellow Americans, we need to stop apologizing for the success of our capitalists.
To my non-American friends: Stop blaming us every time you disapprove of changes in your own culture.
OK, I've finished ranting and I feel much better now. I'm going to lie in my fox hole now and await the onslaught.


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"I think it would be a great idea" Mohandas Ghandi's answer when asked what he thought of Western civilization

I seldom hear that the US is IMPOSING their culture on us. What I mainly hear is, "we're stupid to absorb their culture so readily". But then again I don't think that American culture is being "Imposed" or "Absorbed" at all to much. We take the things we like, for example hamburgers, and leave the rest we don't like. (eventhough there are peoble who don't like what the other peoble liked about your culture. ? Thats how peoble are) You Americans do the same you know. It's just harder to see because there are a lot of diffirent cultures in America beforehand.

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I seldom hear that the US is IMPOSING their culture on us. What I mainly hear is, "we're stupid to absorb their culture so readily". But then again I don't think that American culture is being "Imposed" or "Absorbed" at all to much. We take the things we like, for example hamburgers, and leave the rest we don't like. (eventhough there are peoble who don't like what the other peoble liked about your culture. ? Thats how peoble are) You Americans do the same you know. It's just harder to see because there are a lot of diffirent cultures in America beforehand.

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You're right Lucky. People here often complain about a perceived U.S. cultural hegemony, and it's just not there. For example, people talk as if there were a conspiracy to force such "American" concepts Halloween and Santa Claus on unsuspecting children, when it's the local media and the parents themselves who are destroying local customs. As you say, if you don't like it, don't buy it.

Somewhat tangentially: I also wonder where they get off complaining about the U.S. process of certifying nations as partners in the war on drugs, as an attack on national sovereignty. Regardless of what you think about the Drug War and whether the U.S. drug consumption is the cause or effect of the illegal drug trade, the fact is that it's money at the U.S. Government's disposal and it can pretty much put any conditions on how it's apportioned.



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"Anything is peaceful from one thousand, three hundred and fifty-three feet."

Hoe;
You are entirely right that the US absorbs many, many things from other cultures, and it's not that it's 'harder to see', as you suggest. We just don't complain about it. And the reason we don't complain about it is because we find it enriching. We don't blame, for example, the Irish for making St. Patrick's Day a big holiday here. Instead, we learn about it, enjoy it, and celebrate with the Irish-Americans. Those who have no interest in it simply don't participate.
I have to thank both posters for your very nice responses. I expected rants from non-Americans accusing us of being akin to the Evil Empire, but I am pleasently surprised. I'm curious: Which nation do you guys call home?

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"I think it would be a great idea" Mohandas Ghandi's answer when asked what he thought of Western civilization

Well, Lucky I'm from Iceland. As you've noticed there have been many anti- Icelandic posts here lately. But I think it's mostly on the frindly side, jesting.
Anyway, as we don't have American-Icelanders as a part of our culture it's impossible to celebrate, lets say Valentines day, with American-Icelanders. (In the same way you celebrate St. Patrics day with Irish-Americans)
So if we're going to celebrate Valentines day it has got to be purely Icelandic event borrowed from America. That's the thing that irritates some peoble, that it's not an "Icelandic" custom.
For me it's like you said, if you don't like it, leave it.
Peronally I don't parttake in Valentines day. I feel that every day should be the day to express your feelings to the one you love.

What I've noticed however is that a lot of Americans are very toutchy(forgive my spelling) about other natoins opinion of them, and get extemely defensive (and sometimes agressive) if someone non-American points something out.

Feel free to e-mail me.


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...and I've heard non-Americans (the French come to mind) complain about American influence in their culture. Last I checked,
the American governemnt wasn't forcing other nations to watch American films. If you don't want a McDonald's in your country then stop eating there!

I'm sorry, but at this point, all I can think of is "That's 'cause they don't know what a Quarter Pounder is."


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~jon

Lucky, to answer your question (one of these days I'll sit down and figure out how to blockquote, but for now please bear with me and scroll up): I am an American who calls Mexico home.

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"Anything is peaceful from one thousand, three hundred and fifty-three feet."

Hoe, in response to your comments about Americans' sensitivity to criticism:

America is a great melting pot, where people from every cultural, racial, national, and ethnic origin have come together to form a society. Like most families, we are quick to criticize ourselves, but, IMHO, we are not tolerant of criticism from outsiders. BTW, I think this is generally true (to greater or lesser extent) of most nationalities.

Most of us came here because our parents, or grandparents, or great-grandparents, were escaping poverty and persecution and seeking a better life for themselves and for their children. (Obviously, there are many exceptions to this generalization, including black Americans whose ancestors were brought here forcibly.) We appreciate and are grateful for the freedom, tolerance, and attitude of equality that exists here...as well as for the economic opportunities. America is not perfect, but most Americans consider they are far better off than had our ancestors NOT come here.

Much of American culture is a mish-mosh of influx from diverse other cultures. We had Greek food for lunch yesterday, and Chinese food for supper.

We can be self-critical; God knows, there are many failures, and enormous gaps between reality and our ideals. But we are not tolerant of criticism from outsiders.

Most other nations of the world are populated very largely by a single ethnicity, a single culture.
- It's very easy to sit in a country where 98% of the population is the same race, and to be critical of the U.S. for still having difficulties dealing with racial relations.
-It's very easy to sit in a country where the 98% of the population is the same religion, and not understand how Americans can be so divided about issues like abortion.
-It's very easy to sit in a country with high tax rates and a socialized medical system, and be critical of the large number of Americans without medical insurance.

However, IMHO, most Americans feel that outsiders don't really understand America, and therefore aren't in a fair position to be critical.

Coupla things:
David Bowie's "I'm Afraid of Americans". Wouldn't it be sunning, amazing and scary if all Americans decides to get up of their couches, out of their cars, and worked for some common goal, all together on the same page?
As I was watching Armageddon last year, I wondered why it was only the US who sent up a drill/explosives team. Duh, it's a US movie. We're the only country who would make a movie like that.(and ID4, Deep Impact, T2) And the other countries love them.

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"On the edge of sleep, I awoke to a sun so bright..."

This will probably end up being so much mindless blather, but here goes anyway...

I think that the reason American culture has been so successful, and the reason that so many people in other countries object to it, is because, stemming from a root objective of "freedom" and combining elements from so many other cultures, American culture filters out anything that entails self-sacrifice, suffering, discomfort, and, to a lesser extent, courage and bravery.

Most American cultural products are aimed at keeping an individual warm, cozy, well-fed, and mentally stimulated, but not to the point at which uncomfortable thoughts appear.

This is, of course, a very attractive place to be. Who doesn't want to be comfortable, well-fed and happy?

Americans have succeeded, for the most part (let's ignore the inner cities and poverty-stricken rural areas for the time being - they don't produce culture like Hollywood or MacDonalds), in liberating themselves from all that is horrible in the world - hunger, political oppression, fear, discomfort, daily battles against nature, etc. Forgive the generalization, but that's what the New World was for, wasn't it? It was a chance to start over and get things right. (Once it stopped being a penal colony, that is.)According to popular culture, it's worked.

Other countries have objections to American culture because it makes their long-held traditions of self-sacrifice, discipline and stiff-upper-lip attitudes seem at best irrelevant and at worst comical. These attitudes arose from a world in which life was (and still is, in many European nations) harder, in which many more people had to share far fewer resources, in which you didn't get ahead by owning a bigger vehicle (horse, whatever) and in which living frugally was the best method of survival for everyone who wasn't a member of the nobility.

Then along comes America - sucking resources in a manner that Europe or Asia never imagined, championing the idea that everyone can consume as much as he or she wants and be thought the better of for it. Naturally, this idea is attractive, but at the same time it goes against a way of life that Europeans and Asians have learned to take pride in.

I don't know if humanity can handle American culture for much longer. It's fun. It feels good. It doesn't require thought, sacrifice, bravery, discomfort or anything else that our instincts tell us to avoid. It's based on consumption and greed, the foundations of capitalism and the natural progression of our desire to be more successful as a species. However, logic dictates that given a finite supply of resources, something has to give somewhere.

Technologically speaking, we're not all that far from a level at which we could almost sustain this type of American culture world-wide, indefinitely. We need to re-engineer all our toys to be more energy-efficient, use energy from the sun more than energy that will run out (fossil fuels), recycle much more than we are, and accept that if we want to keep going like this then we must give up on the idea of preserving wilderness. Really, the only sacrifices we'd need to make would be accepting a few limits on what one can do to make money and maybe a limit on the number of children an individual can have.

Unfortunately, the collective work necessary to accomplish this may already be outside of our capabilities, ironically, because too many of us have internalized the American "you can't make me do anything I don't want to do" ethic. If you want to know why Europe has had so much more success initiating environmental reforms, that's it in a nutshell. If you want to know how Japan gets its workers to put up with more stress, fewer holidays, fewer benefits - again, less American ethic.

I'm not saying there's anything intrinsically wrong with the American ethic. It may end up being our species' limiting factor, which would make sense, given that it's a very natural way to live and we don't seem to have to try very hard to acclimatize humans to it. But I don't think that at our current technological level, it's sustainable. Picture us as a pack of wolves who have just come across a massive herd of caribou, and while we're devouring them as quickly as we can, our furry girths expanding to an unhealthy level, we're calling all of our friends and relatives from less caribou-dense areas, convincing them that they can come and just stand here and eat caribou until they die from lack of exercise and heart failure, happy as clams. Given the chance, any wolf would do this. I don't think we're any different. This hypothetical wolf population would grow tremendously and be technically very successful (although other wolves who didn't join them might think that they were soft and fat and ugly, and lacked a connection to their old wolf cultural activies of hunting and travelling and starving periodically) but eventually, the fat wolves would eat all the caribou, unless they learned caribou husbandry techniques, which they really couldn't be bothered to do because it would be hard and it would interfere with their caribou-eating techniques. Then they would all die, because they'd have no clue how to go back to running around looking for food.


So I guess that's the problem with American culture, really - it's just a little too attractive, and people on the outside looking in, people who were raised with different ideas about consumption and growth and materialism, are uneasy about that. Our instincts tell us that to live this way is good, but unless you were raised American, your cultural values tell you that maybe it's not such a hot idea after all.

I think that's enough babbling for one afternoon.

This is an interesting article you've written Eris. I agree with much of it.

I think that the success Hollywood has had in dominating the worlds movie industry has made America look lusher, happier, more apealing. When you see so many American movies you start to believe that everything in them is true to the letter. Therefore you want to move there, you want to imitate them, become like them. Please forgive me, but I think this propaganda has worked enormously well for the US.

My brother and my friend lived for one year in seperate parts in the US as exchange students. What they told me was that allthough they lived with wonderfull families and made some good friends there, they would never considder moving there. Their wiew of America changed a lot during that year.

What they also said was that Americans considder them selves the free'est(how the hell do you spell that) nation in the world, while at the same time experienced a lot more freedom at home. What they were talking about was curfew at night, cencored books in highschool, fear of being murdered, and so on. So Hollywood portrays America as the Über-promised land which in fact it is not.

So getting back to the Hollywood thing. If for some reason Hollywood was in Germany, maybe Baiern, we would all be eating sauerkraut und Bratwurst, and wearing Deutsche Lederhosen, cursing them for imposing German culture upon us.

I rest my case, waiting for the guilty verdict of trolling.(whatever that is)

Aufviedersehen, oder sonnst Mann sagen aufviederlesen..?

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Maybe I'm not understanding this thread, but I think you all are missing the point.

In the rush to contain the evil Red menace, the US spent billions building up nations around the globe as buffer zones to commie aggression. Amongest the things we built were tv and radio stations. Then we slapped our foreheads and said "You guys don't have a tv industry? Here! For a (small fee) you can have ours!" The results were to make shows like 'Little House on the Prairie' the most popular show in Turkey. We have without any evil designs thrust America upon the entire globe. Everybody wants to be a middle class white American.

It's somewhat narrow sighted to then say no one is forcing these people to buy American goods when American life is being sold to them through tv. It is equally unfair to demand that these countries stop acting that way. We still haven't forgiven Iran for trying to toss the American devil out. A "revolution" that has already failed, even if they don't know it yet.

It gets down to the level of Americas bemoaning the loss the Amazon rain forest without offering any reason for the peasant farmers there to stop the slash and burn. It is within our means to go down and buy the land just as it was in our means to buy up all those former Soviet nukes. But that requires long term thinking and planning and in America the only thing that matters is the current market quarter.

The evil that remains is the promise that being American will make your life better. That there is some magic formula of American success. The result is the "One people. One planet. One slab of concrete" joke. Having the world owned by Wal-Mart, Disney and Ford is not in anyone's best interest.

Mann soll 'viederlesen' sagen. ; )

I believe America would be largely condemned and resented no matter what we did. We are a very large, very rich country, with a powerful military. If something goes wrong in the world, we are condemned because we had the power to stop it. No matter what evil occurs, it was always "within our means" to stop it. On the other hand, when we do intervene overseas, there is always at least one group condemning us for heavy-handed interference. It's time we stopped paying so much attention to these things and work on our processes for deciding what WE think is right. The inefficiency in this seems to be our chief weakness as a nation right now, in my opinion, or one of them anyway.

Also, I must object to the idea that America popped into existence consuming madly while the noble Europeans and Asians calmly made due with what they had. Have you looked at Japan lately, and their environmental record? Look in this month's issue of Scientific American to see how the 1,216,000,000 people of China have denuded Asia of endangered species (the article is on turtles, but of course it goes beyond that), and are now buying wildlife from the U.S. for folk medicine and food. Why are the Asian tigers threatened? Why are the Rhinos going? Because their gonads and horns, respectively, are believed in the east to make men virile. The charge that the U.S. is consuming unchecked RELATIVE to the rest of the world doesn't hold up under scrutiny.(Though the world is consuming too rapidly, and this is a very serious problem)
The U.S. consumes a lot of ENERGY, but we are not as destructive of our resources as many, many other nations.

At the bottom, I think most American's resentment of criticism from abroad stems from several things:
1) Few foreigners in my experience have any knowledge of American history.
2) Not surprisingly, foreigners tend to relate America's problems to what they know - their own country. Unfortunately, this oftens translates as an attitude of "you'd be so much better if only you were, well, more like us!". We do this, too, and other countries rightly resent it. Well, so do we.
3) Foreigners I've met tend to view all countries with the same tools, even when they do not translate. For instance, if I went and lived in, oh, say, London for a year I'd have a pretty good idea what England is like; most of what is interesting in England happens in London. It is the center of government, culture, education, business, finance, commerce, industry, etc. etc. But there is no such primate city in the U.S. Washington is the government center, New York is the financial center, Boston is the education center, the culture we export comes from L.A. mostly. Chicago has a very different culture from New Orleans, which is nothing like Seattle. Heck, even San Francisco and Los Angeles are very different. Much more different than, for instance York and Liverpool. I can't tell you how many times I've heard someone say "Oh yes, I know all about what America is like - I lived in Los Angeles for two years!". I think you can see why Americans find this hopelessly naive. It's a tool that may work in some countries -England, Russia (I'm guessing), Japan, - but it simply doesn't in other countries like the U.S. (it wouldn't work in China either, for similar reasons, or Australia either). There are other tools of assessing a country that fail as well, but you get the idea.
4) There is a tendency to pick and choose to make criticisms work. I've heard Europeans say that Europe is a more secular place than America! When you pin them down, they are comparing Denmark to Louisiana. But that's silly. Does religion not intrude in people's lives in, oh, Ireland? Does the main church not have enormous political clout in Greece? Italy? Spain? What's that little to-do in the Balkans these days between Christian Serbs and Moslem Albanians? When Europe is viewed as a whole, religion is much more socially important in people's day-to-day lives than it is here (mostly in bad ways). But Europeans tend to think of "Europe" as whatever part they are from, and compare this to whatever part of America allows them to feel superior. The parts that don't support the argument are dismissed as peripheral to European identity. As though the Scopes trial represented mainstream American thought.

I'm sorry, but at this point, all I can think of is "That's 'cause they don't know what a Quarter Pounder is."


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~jon

Ahhhhh yes, but do know what they call a Big Mac?



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>^,,^<
KITTEN

He who walk through airport door sideways going to Bangkok. - Confucius

Eris mentioned the evils of Capitalism.

I don't even know a concise way to adress that except to say It works and the alternatives don't.

Of course, it would be nice if we could live frugally, sharing resources so that all may live in comfort. Equitably distributing wealth, living sane lives without buying whatever thing we want. Perhaps having a government that can enforce this type of behavior, making factories produce sensible products that people really need and making sure that entertainment has some social value. But then, the countries that have tried this haven't fared so well.

Even the poor in America live better than the middle class in most countries. Our rising tide lifts all boats.

Don't whine about capitalism!

Even the poor in America live better than the middle class in most countries.

This is an oft-repeated maxim with absolutely no basis in truth.

Our rising tide lifts all boats.

What if you don't have a boat?

Don't whine about capitalism!

Wouldn't it be a fascinating experiment if the U.S. was really capitalist? Remember when it was, back in the late 1800s and early 1900s, and we had sweatshops and child labor and no environmental controls and 18 hour workdays and . . .

You can take a snapshot of any system in motion and say "Look at all the problems"... but one thing that I love about the good ole U.S. of A. is that things are always changing, and I'd say for the better.

Child labor, unfair work standards, and environmental hazard are problems that plague all countries and societies on this planet. But the U.S. is making progress on all counts. Show me a country where people have the level of safety for their persons and their property, the level of opportunity, and the level of freedom enjoyed by Americans. I recognize that American society has its problems, and there are some who do not have equal levels of or access to these concepts, but systemically I'd venture to say that the United States economic and political model is superior.

Yes, there is materialistic decadence, yes you run in to unbridled greed, but I think the U.S. demonstrates as well as any society the truth to Smith's Invisible Hand.

I forget the exact quote, but Jefferson said something to the effect of, a revolution is needed every now and then to keep things interesting... when things stay interesting, the system stays dynamic. And the U.S. system (and the human component thereof) is such that it allows for a social revolution every now and then, without changing the fundamental framework of the system.

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"Anything is peaceful from one thousand, three hundred and fifty-three feet."

Thor and Pldennison;

I challenge both of you to come up with some statistics regarding the standard of living for the poor in America vs. the middle class of most countries.
I don't know about 'most', but my experiences would suggest many. I do a lot of charity work in the Third World, and if America provided to it's welfare recipients the lifestyle of the Third World middle class, they would be screaming of inhumane treatment.

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"I think it would be a great idea" Mohandas Ghandi's answer when asked what he thought of Western civilization

I will take that challenge, Lucky.

So pldennison, (or should I say Comrade Dennison) we are not a capitalist economy, if a nation is capitalistic, it can't have labor laws, a booming economy doesn't help the poor and average folks in Honduras live in the lap of luxury.

I had a suspicion you were a socialist after the private property debate. But I have a suspicion you can offer a more lucid demonstration of your position.

I will put the US against any successful socialist or communist country such as Cuba...no...well, such as Rus...no....or. Nor...no...well hell, I'm stumped. I'll just have to look that up tonight. .

So pldennison, (or should I say Comrade Dennison)

No, you shouldn't, because a) it's a stupid tactic and b) I have never nor, probably, will I ever vote for a member of the American Socialist or Communist parties.

we are not a capitalist economy,

No, we are a mixed economy. Our business community relies heavily on preferential taxation, protectionist import/export practices, government purchases, and military contracts. If our system was purely capitalist, it would never survive.

Incidentally, I ask you again: What does the rising tide do to people without boats? (Hint: They drown.)

if a nation is capitalistic, it can't have labor laws, a booming economy doesn't help the poor and average folks in Honduras live in the lap of luxury.

I'm not sure what you're asking here. And no, a booming economy does not, generally stated, help the poor, as you can see by our own current economy, with record-level Dow numbers and record profits from nearly every business segment, being plagued by layoffs.

I had a suspicion you were a socialist after the private property debate.

Well, check yourself, because you're wrong. I may tend more towards the left than the right, but I believe in private property and I believe in profit. I don't believe in exploitation and I don't believe in Objectivism or selfishness as a virtue. I'm a humanist.

Peronally I don't parttake in Valentines day. I feel that every day should be the day to express your feelings to the one you love.

Maybe it'd be easier for you to swallow that holiday if you took a more American point of view and celebrated the machine-gunning of 7 people on the north side of Chicago in 1929. Who says our culture should not be emulated?

Nickrz, you crack me up!

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"I think it would be a great idea" Mohandas Ghandi's answer when asked what he thought of Western civilization

pldennison, Once again, your original, slightly cryptic post led me to believe that you were taking a more extreme position than you really do. In response to my defense of capitalism you insinuated that if we were a capitalis economy then we would have children working in dangerous conditions and would have 18 hour work days.

Agreed on the mixed economy. Agreed on a reasonable level of government regulation to protect from gross abuses.

What happens when the tide rises and you don't have a boat? well if you are in the water without a boat, you are going to drown anyway. How long can you tread water?

Correct me if I am wrong, but the unemployment rate is as low as it has been in 30 years. In Colorado it is under 4%. I would say that there are less "drownings" than when unemployment is 12%. (and show me the statistics on these massive lay-offs that you mention.) I am not saying that there are people who can't partake in our prosperity, but they are few and like it or not we currently do have welfare, SSDI, HUD and other programs that address this.

Bottom line, more people do well in a prosperous economy than in a depressed economy.

People can argue all day that we should have a more equitable economic system like (insert European country here) but we are doing better than they.

pldennison, Once again, your original, slightly cryptic post led me to believe that you were taking a more extreme position than you really do. In response to my defense of capitalism you insinuated that if we were a capitalis economy then we would have children working in dangerous conditions and would have 18 hour work days.

No, I was pointing out that, to the extent that we really were laissez-faire capitalist in the late 19th and early 20th century, the system was subject to abuses that nobody really wanted. Hence, our current mixed economy.

What happens when the tide rises and you don't have a boat? well if you are in the water without a boat, you are going to drown anyway. How long can you tread water?

Huh. Well, that's compassionate. Some people, you know, can't afford boats. I sure hope someone fishes them out before they do drown.

(and show me the statistics on these massive lay-offs that you mention.)

I can't believe that you would not be aware of the fact that, in recent years, many companies are achieving their record profits by reducing costs through layoffs. According to Challenger, Gray & Christmas, one of the major firms tracking this trend, May 1999 was the fourteenth consecutive month that job cuts were higher than the same month a year ago, and the ninth consecutive month that job cuts exceeded 50,000. It's a fact. Hell, Procter & Gamble announced 15,000 job cuts on Wednesday, and this is a company whose profts increased 8.2% last quarter, raising their EPS by 7 cents per share.

Sickeningly enough, the very announcement of job cuts usually results in an increase in trading volume and a jump in share price of a company's stock. In any case, however, the layoff trend is no secret.

I am not saying that there are people who can't partake in our prosperity, but they are few and like it or not we currently do have welfare, SSDI, HUD and other programs that address this.

Yep, and those are the first programs that the capitalists leap for when we talking about reducing the budget.

Bottom line, more people do well in a prosperous economy than in a depressed economy.

I don't agree. You think the average Joe is affected by the Dow hitting 10,000? Think again. The gap between the richest and the poorest is wider than it has ever been.

People can argue all day that we should have a more equitable economic system like (insert European country here) but we are doing better than they.

Not until we have single-payer health care, at the very least.

IF you would have said Laissez-faire capitalism the first time around, I would have better understood your position.

This layoff thing really gets me. The unemployment rate is decreasing. More people are working. I don't care if layoffs quadruple as long as there are plenty of jobs.

As unemployment decreases, there are less workers available. As the worker to job ratio decreases, salaries increase to attract the few available workers. Also, the minimum job requirements decrease. Felons, high school drop outs, folks we never would have hired 15 years ago are all now on our payroll because we can't find enough workers.


Layoffs cut the fat out of businesses. Would it be better to keep around uneeded employees? Remember, we are talking about business which strives to be competetive and make a profit. If there are excess workers they must be cut. That is a cold fact of life.

I just took over a new department. Our company has grown steadily for the last 4 years. 4 years ago we had 12 people. WHen I came in we had 6. About 30% of the work being done was unnecessary or could be outsourced. one employee left and was not replaced and we are still under capacity. Should I hire another person and pay them a salary to sit around and doodle? And the outsourced work over the past 4 years has created jobs at other companies.

One more point, it sounds as if you are arguing that the economy is a zero sum game. it is not. Guaged by the increase in housing sales, I would say that a lot average Joes have been benefitted by the economy. And all of those guys out there banging away with hammers on those new houses are better paid, better off average Joes than they were when the economy was in a slump. I disagree with your perceptions of the plight of the working man.

You are right about my assumption. There are a few main reasons that I think companies have layoffs:

1) business is in the toilet and operating costs must be cut e.g. the steel mills most companies in the great depression.

2) the company is simply overstaffed

3) The company decides to outsource much of what is being done in-house

4) An increase in efficiency (e.g. an automated computer system, elimination of non critical proceses) makes jobs obsolete.

5) the company head is trying to maximize profits over teh short term


In your case, it is probably a good thing that you got out of a company that is making very poor management decisions. I would run to their biggest competitor and try to get hired. They are going to be able to steal some clients away from your old company.

When the unemployment rate is 2%, layoffs lose their danger. Good luck on the job hunt.

Thor said:

" Layoffs cut the fat out of businesses. Would it be better to keep around unneeded employees? Remember, we are talking about business which strives to remain competitive and make a profit. If there are excess workers they must be cut. That is a cold fact of life".

I agree with the latter part of the quote, Thor. If there are truly unnecessary employees they must be removed. However, you assume that all layoffs/downsizings are a result surplus employees. Some are a result of simple corporate greed.

At the risk of sounding like a sour grape (I was downsized a few weeks ago as an engineer with a large food company), there weren't surplus employees in our group. In fact, we were all working overtime on our projects and my manager is now pulling his hair out. The cold fact is that some downsizings are a result of CEOs wanting to keep their bonuses high.

Interestingly enough, the company had a large catered picnic for all remaining employees to celebrate the cost-cutting operation.(adding insult to injury, IMHO) They probably spent more on the catering than on my salary. (Is there a way to draw an eye-rolling smilie face?)

But since unemployment in NE is so low (2%) finding another job is not a big problem, especially if you have computer/engineering/science skills. As far as I'm concerned, the company that downsized me just shot itself in the foot.

PR

There is an awful lot of anti-American sentiment in the world, and I think it can be put down to jealousy. The US is the most powerful country in the world and an awful lot of people don't like it. Someone has always had to hold that crown, though, and it just so happens that at the moment it's your turn.

I don't want to get into some slanging match about the rights and wrongs of American culture - some very good points have been made, and they have laid to rest my rather racist anti-American feelings. I do want to say just one thing, though,

If a country doesn't like the effects of American imports after
they've been imported, that is their problem to deal with

How can a smaller nation deal with the onslaught of a huge American corporation that has decided it's going to be a part of our culture too? Yesterday Wal-Mart bought Britain's third biggest supermarket chain, what the hell are we supposed to do about it?
Stop going?

Just one more thing..

I seldom hear that the US is IMPOSING their culture on us. What I mainly hear is,
"we're stupid to absorb their culture so readily".

Sometimes we can't help absorbing American culture as it IS imposed on us. I'm getting increasingly annoyed by the amount of American spelling that is being thrust upon the British public by American companies who can't be bothered to change the type. British English and American English have two very separate spelling systems, and the sooner companies accept that then the better as far as I'm concerned.

Anyway, just minor gripes there, this thread has certainly opened my eyes, and I shall not be damning about Americans ever again. Sorry

Thanks, Biggles. And I'll stop complaining about four pound pints of ale and things on toast.
See? We can have world peace

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"I think it would be a great idea" Mohandas Ghandi's answer when asked what he thought of Western civilization

There once was a Native American man who flew to Italy and claimed it in the name of his tribe. Just to show how stupid the idea was.
He even had a flag made up for the occasion...
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"...I believe that Drugs should declare War on America..."

--A nanoMouse

Fact: 20% of the worlds population currently consumes 90% of the worlds resources.

(That 20% being you and me and a few other Americans.)

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"...When the last tree has been cut, and the last animal killed, when the last fish is caught, the rich will find they cannot eat their money..."

Black Elk Speaks
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What will happen when there is a car on the road for every China-man?

What will happen when the third world countries find that they cannot become first world for lack of supply?

What will happen when they insist...

spellig errors are meant as an insult, please do not forgive them.

ameriKa...
ive always said that the public is a very stupid bunch of people that do not act on their own personal interest, nor their own personal intellects. as that group of people we call public increases in numbers, it also decreases in intelligence, and where im looking from ameriKa looks to be the hugest collection of people to form a public.
thus making them the dumbest lifeform on this planet. i mean, the public wants clinton for president (hes proved that he is human yes, but is that a trait you are looking for in a man of his status), and talking about movies, please someone tell hollywood to make international versions of movies like id4 and other crappy movies that do not really have to marvel the wonders of the ameriKan flag, i mean... there are others who can save the world too, and without shit for brains people like the director of id4, who made universal soldiers too. no mentioning in names here, dont want to get personal, why, because i have belives in what one person can do, take somebody, almost anybody out of that group im calling public and that someone isnt that bad, that someone has just been brainwashed by ameriKan tv, fatfoot and fastfood, freedom speeches and blinded with the colors of the ameriKan flag. people you are smarter than that, look at yourselves as you want to be, not as anybody else wants you to be. say no you are wrong, stop watching tv, think before you order couse the food is there before you even get hungry, and for everybody, and dont poke your nose into other peoples matters. NEVER EVER hurt another human being!
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people who were trying to kill Gunnar at hillsend stopped just before they reached his house and asked themselves "i wonder if hes at home?", to make sure they sent one ahead to check it out, he crawled onto the roof to take a look inside through the grass, as he peeked inside Gunnars spear stabbed him in the stomach causing him to fall down to the ground, he then crawled to his comrades who asked "was he home?", the poor hurt man said "that i do not know, but i do know that his spear was!"
from the book "brennu-njálssaga" (icelandic history in fiction from approx. the year 1200, this book is based on facts happening in iceland around the year 1000)

The USA does indeed push its culture on other countries.
http://www.usia.gov is the website for United States Information Agency. This taxfunded agency spreads American Culture around the world. Particulary 3rd world countries are given tv-stations and are encouraged to show american shows. In most European countries, USIA have given funds to parties supporting commercial TV (which arrived late in Europe).
This is from the website:

The Office of Cuba Broadcasting directs the operations of Radio Marti and TV Marti-two broadcast operations that provide Spanish- language news, features, and entertainment programs to listeners and viewers in Cuba.

Of course it's political. And I'm not taking a stand, but to say that the US doesn't peddle its culture to other countries is just plain wrong.

ct

To say that the US pushes its culture on the world is correct to an extent. But pushing only goes so far. To think that our insistence alone is the determining factor of the spread of US culture is to sell short the people of the world. We are talking about people who are able to make up their own minds, able to decide if they will purchase Nike, Coca-Cola, etc. These are conscious decisions they make to purchase and consume.
It is true as well, that many of these decisions are made by the younger generations who don't seem to put much thought into it. An example: Last year I was teaching in a Korean Women's university. One day, in a funk, I asked my students why Korean popular culture emulated Black American culture to such a large degree. This is seen in the music and clothing industry the most. And I added, "why do you do this when you don't like blacks at all." Koreans are overt racists and they make no effort to hide their dislike of blacks of any nationality. I gave them plenty of time to think about it and the overwhelming response was that it was the "fashionable" thing to do. They admitted that they only cared about the superficialities of Black American culture and that they certainly did not want to import any other part of their culture.

Now, granted, these were 18-22 year olds, yet they probably represent the largest segment of the population that demands and consumes
US products. Their mindless (in my opinion) acceptance of US culture is THEIR fault, not ours. These people have a choice and they make it everyday. They don't have to go see US movies, they don't have to wear Hilfiger clothing, and they certainly don't have to eat at McDonald's. They do these things because they want to, that's it. They find these things appealing for whatever reason.
The fact that so much mindless consumption goes on in the world illustrates the fact that people are people. To suggest that the "public", as bj0rn calls them, throughout the world are brainwashed by US culture is suggesting that the people are pretty damn stupid to begin with. Of course, this flies in the face of cultural superiority that so many people seem to affect when discussing the US. It's the only defense they have, because as someone said earlier, other countries are jealous of the US's power and wealth, just as your officemate is jealous of your new title or raise. People are jealous by nature, I guess.

But taking the position of cultural superiority is the only recourse they have and they soothe themselves by convincing only themselves that they have "culture" and the Americans are vulgar and crass. Perhaps that may be so, but we sure are getting the best of you folks, aren't we?

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It may be that your whole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

bobnat, charlie tan, i agree! alot of things you said is so very true, but i dont think it is a conscious decision, do you deny the influence commercials have on the human mind?
i hope not because if you do you are failing to see how harmful they really are. if macdonalds and coca-cola were not advertised in tv or magazines not so many people would buy those products. i try to avoid those products, due to the illusion they give of utopia and satisfaction in consuming theese products in ads. the mind then creates the connection that it is satisfying to consume theese products regardless of their quality.
facts are what you should act on, everybody knows coca-cola is bad for your teeth (could count more things but no need, i think you know where im heading), smoking is bad for your lungs (tar, not nicotin), macdonalds have even made the food for you before you even order...

thus i reach a conclusion that it is not a conscious decision to watch american films, eat american food and stuff like that, they are just more skilled in the art of lying using various methods which those more weak minded cant see through.

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recipy for lying: be dumb so no one can suspect you of treachery, you are not bright enough for that.

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bane of society: (a certain country inhibited by the stupidest lifeform on the planet)which boasts itself up with lies, and therefore stupidity.
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i have belives in the individual!

Bj0rn you seem to be looking for a fight but I am not going to give it to you... Just wanted to point out some issues. To begin with, are all of your misspellings meant as insults or are some of them attributable to ignorance? Sorry, had to get one poke in...

Your argument seems to suggest that other nations are more easily duped by US advertising? I have lived in the US for over 30 years and do not eat at McDonald's, wear Nike shoes or drink Coca-Cola. Advertising isn't the issue... What matters is that the US is producing marketable products. Products that are obviously more marketable than some of the "home grown" ones. The US doesn't force its products on foreign markets, it merely offers them. If foreigners allow them to do business in their countries and the population supports those businesses with their patronage who is to blame? You should be more thankful... US industries supply 1000s of overseas jobs and revenue. If you don't like it then don't shop at American owned businesses. If you don't want American businesses in your country then elect (that is, if you have the right to vote as you may not in some nations) officials who will bar them. Look at China, they have successfully banned many American business. But at what cost? I can't think of a more backward nuclear power than China.

Before you try rampaging against the US you need to realize that the fault lies with you and whatever nation you live in... YOUR people use American products and patronize American owned businesses and YOUR government allowed the American business access to your land in the first place.

Take some personal responsibility here and save the drama for your mamma...

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PS Have a nice day.

ducks3:you seem to have misunderstood me, i was not saying that there were us ads in my country, i was saying there were ads made in my country but the product being advertized is mostly from the us, true enough, not your fault, but i wasnt blaming anyone. i was pointing out the damaging effects ads can have without so many people realizing it.

this about my spellig, i did that to get intelligent replies, and i dont consider replies on violent nature intelligent. please read in the thread: i couldnt refrain from asking.....is the intelligent life in iceland. for a complete(hopefully) understanding on this subject.

Here we go again.

Thor wrote: I had a suspicion you were a socialist after the private property debate. But I have a suspicion you can offer a more lucid demonstration of your position.

What the hell does that have to do with ANYTHING?
Why the hell does Pldennison have to defend himself? His political views are his right and you have no right(whether he's a socialist or not) to stamp him.

Do you know what socialism is? Or is it just Socialist = communist = Bad Guy?

Thor wrote: I will put the US against any successful socialist or communist country such as Cuba...no...well, such as Rus...no....or. Nor...no...well hell, I'm stumped. I'll just have to look that up tonight. .

Yeah? well... look it up. You'll find France, Denmark, Sweden, Norway there amogst many other. Put US against them any time.
Cuba and Russia have never been socialist countries. I think you misunderstand socialism for totalitarian communism.
Please know what you're talking about.

You also said socialism has never worked. Well let's see...Nomadic native American Indians before Europeans conquered them. Worked just fine...until you fucked them over.

I'm writing this for the defence of all political belives of all posters. To scare people by accusations of being a commie is outright stupid.

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Hoe said:

His political views are his right and you have no right(whether he's a socialist or not) to stamp him.

This from the guy who just called me a Nazi.

this isnt complicated papabear, he wasnt calling you a nazi, he was only pointing out graphically how you are acting. you see, you obviously were offended by it. and tell me now, is there something to be offended about, or did his words really point out the truth which you are trying to deny by hiding yourself behind a flag "everybody" thinks saved the world. (clarification for those who cant read between lines: "everybody" = americans. referance = papabears thread "we couldnt refrain from asking......is there intellEgent life in iceland" saved the world = go see id4, x-files or any of this "it happened in america")

My god bjorn! You must carry the BIGGEST chip on your shoulder about The United States! Tell me, do you stay mad at EVERYONE forever?

I think I may have actually deciphered some meanning from bjorn's last post. Apparently he thinks there's actually some correlation between real life in the USA and American movies.

The Native Americans Socialist? What on earth are you talking about? "Chief Running Bear, The tribe increasing your corn, beaver pelt and arrow tax. We are also nationalizing your teepee."

ANd as for Norway, Sweden, France, Denmark...how are you defining success.

Look, America is partially socialist too. Just not to the extremes of the example you cite. Socialism is a financial disincentive to the people. Look at the unemployment rates in the above countries.

well duh! to begin with american movies are made by americans, for americans, in america etc. etc. etc.
i do of course know and value the art of acting, but belive me when i say this, i dislike any movie, whereever it is from that mentions anything about national pride and babble like that. fabricate a country and take pride of their acomplishments, call it movieland or something. and preferably send it to the dark side of the moon!
basically stick it where the sun doesnt shine

bj0rn