Pedal pedal baby...it's the Tour de France

[LilyoftheValley]

Or, as Bob Roll says: Tour day France.

So, is anyone watching the Tour yet? I'm still in Euro 2004 mode myself, but I'm looking forward to switching over. I only watched about 10 minutes on Saturday, but I've already seen one spill. And not a bad second place finish at all by you-know-who.

I've gotta root for the "local kid" Tyler Hamilton to show us his stuff. Who will you be rooting for?

[Lamar Mundane]

BooBooFoo is the official SDMB commentator for the tour, despite his not-very-well-hidden disdain for Lance Armstrong.

Are you a Boulderite? He lives here most of the time now.

I'll stick with Armstrong for one more, myself.

[LilyoftheValley]

Originally Posted by Lamar Mundane

BooBooFoo is the official SDMB commentator for the tour, despite his not-very-well-hidden disdain for Lance Armstrong.

Doh! I remember Boo Boo Foo's thread from last year, but for some reason I thought that he was no longer a member. Did I step on his toes by starting this thread?

Are you a Boulderite? He lives here most of the time now.

Nope, not Colorado. I just live (and ride) in the general area of Tyler's old hometown. I suspect he's the only reason we get more than an inch on the Tour in the the Sports section of the Boston Globe.

[Avenger]

Should be a great race this year again. Here is an English version of the official website for anyone who wants more info on the riders or course. The lack of any individual time trial before the race hits the Pyrenees is likely to mean that a lot of the top riders are quite close together at that point and the likes of Heras and Mayo really launching into Armstrong.

The bookmakers here all have Armstrong as favourite, with Ullrich second best, but Ullrich should be favourite for me. He showed what he could do last year despite a horrendous preperation, this year has been better and he should be the man to beat.

The lack of any British riders at all, after David Millar's drugs confessions, is a disapointment, but the TV coverage is on ITV2 and, even more comprehensively (and live eveey day) on British Eurosport. I would urge anyone who has never seen this race to get tuning in. The ITV2 highlights show especially is a great introduction, they go through all the tactics and everything.

Can one of our American friends clarify the spoiler situation for us here? Are you guys watching live or how much of a delay is there? Most of the coverage in Europe is live or highlights within about 2 or 3 hours of the stage finish, I think.

[Muffin]

And for the best Tour de France film ever, check out Triplets of Belleville.

[Ellis Dee]

Originally Posted by Avenger

Can one of our American friends clarify the spoiler situation for us here? Are you guys watching live or how much of a delay is there? Most of the coverage in Europe is live or highlights within about 2 or 3 hours of the stage finish, I think.

I'd watch if it were broadcast. To my knowledge, it is not.

[Evil Captor]

I'm getting it on a cable station called the Outdoor Life Network, and I'm not aware of any tape delays, but I'm not paying that close attention yet. Yesterday they showed the first stage, but I don't know when. You guys in Europe get up too early, anyway.

[wmulax93]

I want to watch, but OLN has some other crap on right now.

[carterba]

I think OLN shows the last two hours of each stage live. Stage 1 was on from 9:00 to 11:30 this morning. Then they repeat it throughout the day, with more commercials.

I'm looking for Lance to win, Tyler Hamilton to place, and Jan Ullrich to show.

[Rick]

did anybody catch the ads running on TDF?
The one of the Posties delivering mail was a hoot.

Go Lance, go.

[Dopef1sh]

I really wish Vinokourov was in it this year. That kid is phenomenal. Too bad he had to break his collarbone.

[LilyoftheValley]

Originally Posted by Avenger

Can one of our American friends clarify the spoiler situation for us here? Are you guys watching live or how much of a delay is there? Most of the coverage in Europe is live or highlights within about 2 or 3 hours of the stage finish, I think.

It's shown a couple of times a day here on OLN, as carterba said. I can't speak for everyone else (particularly the West Coasters), but my plan is to just not open the thread until I've watched the day's events, whether live or on repeat.

[Call me Frank]

Originally Posted by Rick

The one of the Posties delivering mail was a hoot.

Yeah, I liked that one too.

[capybara]

*I* just went to the *Prologue* the other day. Tried to pick up a spot late, though, and couldn't see a damn thing, but got a photo taken with The Devil and camped out where the riders roll through after their runs and got some good pictures. Stood around drinking a Leffe Blond from the bottle-- I love living in Belgium. Liége was a frikkin' zoo this day, though.

[teela brown]

I'm a West Coaster, and we get it fine on OLN here. Coverage starts at 6:00 a.m. most days, and finishes around 8:15. I never miss it, and I watch it partly because I love bike racing, and partly because I love to look at footage of the magnificant European countryside. You folks in Yurp have the most beautiful agricultural land, small towns and big cities in the world - I'm jealous.

And thank the gods of broadcasting that Kristin Gum is nowhere to be seen or heard during the live coverage. What happened to her? Not that I care!

[Lamar Mundane]

Aside

Lance Armstrong's girlfriend Cheryl Crow has some cycling chops, too.

Crow could keep up. She is a religious Pilates practitioner and didn't flinch when Armstrong suggested she climb L'Alpe d'Huez. The most famous mountain in the most famous race in the world, L'Alpe d'Huez is 9.3 miles, stretching from 2,376 feet to 6,105 feet. There are 21 switchbacks.

Yes, she made it. Did it in 90 minutes. She was asked how much she trained for it.

"For that? Oh, I didn't train for that at all," she said. "Lance said, 'Hey, we're going to be near L'Alpe d'Huez. You should go ride it.' I was like, 'OK.' He told me how to start: Get in your smallest gear and go slow, like you feel like you're going to fall over. Go as slowly as you can so you're saving energy.

"I think L'Alpe d'Huez is about focus and concentration. It's not necessarily about inconsistencies. You're going slowly uphill with no giant, out-of-nowhere climbs and then descents. It's just a straight, steady climb up and with that mind, you can get into the pace that you're going and hopefully lose yourself."

[carterba]

So that was a heck of a move by Postal today, huh? Pick up the pace, split the peloton, and leave Iban Mayo in the dust. By the end of the day tomorrow, he'll be at least 6 minutes back. Can he get back into it in the mountains, or is he done?

[Avenger]

Originally Posted by carterba

So that was a heck of a move by Postal today, huh? Pick up the pace, split the peloton, and leave Iban Mayo in the dust. By the end of the day tomorrow, he'll be at least 6 minutes back. Can he get back into it in the mountains, or is he done?

Should be fun watching him try, either way!

[Mycroft Holmes]

Originally Posted by carterba

So that was a heck of a move by Postal today, huh? Pick up the pace, split the peloton, and leave Iban Mayo in the dust.

You could tell a lot of riders had never ridden in the "Hell of the North" otherwise known as Paris-Roubaix. Postal and the other teams did a great job of using the cobblestones to their advantage. Their teeth are probably still rattling today!

[Neurotik]

Originally Posted by carterba

So that was a heck of a move by Postal today, huh? Pick up the pace, split the peloton, and leave Iban Mayo in the dust. By the end of the day tomorrow, he'll be at least 6 minutes back. Can he get back into it in the mountains, or is he done?

I know nothing about cycling strategy - what does this mean?

[Trunk]

That was an awesome, powerful move yesterday.

I was kind of rooting for Mayo (I think he's Basque?) but now he could be cooked.

So, today is a team trial and I heard that they "capped" the margin this year at 2:00, meaning no team could lose more than 2:00 to the winning team.

First of all, that almost seems like a shot at Postal. Is that something they've EVER done before?

Secondly, what's to stop a team from totally dogging it if they realize they're going to be a 1:50 or something? Just ease up and save their energy for another day.

Oh, one more basic question to anyone who might know. . .

Aren't the teams different sizes? What if postal has 10 members, and T-Mobile only has 8 (based on withdrawals or whatever). Doesn't that put Postal at a disadvantage.

[Trunk]

Originally Posted by Neurotik

I know nothing about cycling strategy - what does this mean?

Basically what you had yesterday was the "peloton" (the big group of riders all together). Mayo had fallen and was working his way back towards the peleton.

Well, about 3/4 of the way through the race, on some cobbles, several members of Postal went to the front of the peleton and started riding like the dickens. Well, about 20-30 riders went with them and they split the peleton. They had enough members in that lead group to garner the aero-benefits of a pack (if only a couple riders go ahead, they don't have enough people breaking wind to sustain the lead typically), so they were able to distance themselves from the rest of the riders.

Unfortunately, Mayo was in that second pack, which ended up losing to the first pack by about 3 minutes.

[Trunk]

what I kind of left out was the basic racing dynamic. on a "stage" race like yesterday, it's most efficient for riders to travel in a group (peloton).

what you tend to get is a small group that will leave the peloton, but with only a few people breaking the wind, they tire and get "reeled" in by the peloton. Not always, but often. Sometimes they get "points" bonuses for being first to certain checkpoints along the route, so it can be beneficial to break. The points are some alternative scoring that I don't really understand.

So, when postal moved yesterday, if it was just a few of them they might have been reeled in. But, they had enough people go with them (people who probably feared they wouldn't be reeled in) to make their own mini-peloton. That mini-pel including Ullrich, Hamilton, and I think Heras. It DIDN'T included Mayo.

Actually, Mayo, maybe suspecting a break, fell when he was trying to get closer to the front (according to the announcers). He was a victim of walking the fine line between agression and patience.

So, you might ask, "how do you time the riders in the peloton at the end". What they do, AFAI can tell is reward time bonuses to places 1-2-3 so that there's always a mad sprint at the end. But, the rest of the peloton gets the same time. I think this system avoids having 100 riders try to fit across 10 feet of pavement.

That said, I think at some cut-off point in the peloton, they all get +5 seconds from there on back, and maybe a +10 from some other point on back. The point is, they reward a group of riders with the same basic time, except for the first three.

(this is all completely different on climbs where aero isn't as important, individual time trials, and team time trials.)

[Mycroft Holmes]

Originally Posted by Trunk

Basically what you had yesterday was the "peloton" (the big group of riders all together). Mayo had fallen and was working his way back towards the peleton.

Well, about 3/4 of the way through the race, on some cobbles, several members of Postal went to the front of the peleton and started riding like the dickens. Well, about 20-30 riders went with them and they split the peleton.

[small nitpick]Not quite 100% correct.[/small nitpick]

What happened is that most of the favourites (Armstrong, Ullrich, Armstrong) were at the front of the peloton where they belong, since it is a much safer place to be, especially when coming to dangerous passages where crashes are likely. If you are at the front of the peloton the crash will inevitably be behind you. The peloton always picks up the pace before coming to a cobblestone section, because the first ten or so riders to get onto the cobblestones have a huge advantage. They can basically pick their own line through the cobblestones, and they don't have to worry as much when someone "loses it" on the cobblestones, as they won't be riding six abreast on an eight foot wide path. Now, just as the peloton was accelerating before getting to the first patch of cobblestones, there was a crash in the peloton, and Mayo was caught behind the crash. The same thing happens every year in the Paris-Roubaix race. the peloton will be riding in one big bunch up to the first cobblestone passage, and then all hell breaks loose.

Almost immediately all the "big guys" in the front of the peloton realized the chance they had, and they decided to use teamwork (the Postal, T-Mobile and Phonak teams decided to work together) to seperate from the rest of the peloton. Mayo's team (Euskatel) tried to catch up almost all day, but there was nothing they could do against three teams who decided to work together.

[Mycroft Holmes]

Originally Posted by Trunk

Secondly, what's to stop a team from totally dogging it if they realize they're going to be a 1:50 or something? Just ease up and save their energy for another day.

Oh, one more basic question to anyone who might know. . .

Aren't the teams different sizes? What if postal has 10 members, and T-Mobile only has 8 (based on withdrawals or whatever). Doesn't that put Postal at a disadvantage.

Actually, nothing can stop a team from dogging it if they realize they are more than two minutes behind, with no chance of making the time up. And yes, the rule change is considered a dig at Postal and Lance by most people. I guess the organizers think it's a way of making the whole Tour more competitive.

Also, the final time of the team time trial is ridden by the fifth rider from the team to cross the finish line. so basically, you could race the whole thing with five guys going all out, and the rest of the team walking their bikes to the finish. Actually, it is a serious disadvantage if you have less riders to start with, and they drop out from the "train" early. The riders are constantly switching who is leading the "train" so that they can split the work of cutting through the wind. When you are riding behind someone doing all the work, you can save some precious energy, and the team as a whole will ride much faster than a team with less riders in the "train".

[Trunk]

Now that I think about it, they did focus on what you said. . .it was key to get into the top 10-15 BEFORE the cobbles because you wanted to be there ON the cobbles. They mentioned that a lot of crashes tend to happen before the cobbles because of that rush to the front, which is what happened yesterday.

Anyway -- does anyone know what the deal is about riding team trials with teams of different sizes? Most of the teams seem to have 9 members, but some have 8. Do you only have to race 8?

[Trunk]

preview

thanks. I didn't realize that about it being the 5th man, so I get how less riders would be a disadvantage. I was thinking it was the 9th man or something.

[Mycroft Holmes]

Originally Posted by Trunk

Most of the teams seem to have 9 members, but some have 8. Do you only have to race 8?

The teams that are racing less people have already had people drop out or disqualified. I think someone was disqualified in the 1st stage because he finished more than half an hour after the field, after crashing.

In the mountain stages there is actually a little bus called the "sweeper" that rides well behind the field, and picks up any stragglers who are so far behind that they have no chance of making the finish in time. Some very big names in cycling have had to ride in the "sweeper".

[teela brown]

Phew! What a TTT today! Rain, wind, it was brutal!

SPOILER:

And Postal wins it and Lance dons the yellow! I really thought Phonak was going to grab the time trial today, but the blue train blew them away. Sheryl Crow, interviewed right after the finish, was right: they looked like a bobsled. Awesome team coordination, USPS. Terrific speed and recovery in the face of adversity, Phonak.

[ShibbOleth]

A question on the crash yesterday:

In previous races, it seems when there was a crash the other teams would stop/slow down to let the downed rider back into the race. Is that not always the case, or am I missing something? I thought it was a sportsmanship thing.

[Mycroft Holmes]

Congratulations US Postal! As I suspected, Lance was basically screwed over by the new rules. Instead of gaining over a minute on Tyler Hamilton he gains twenty seconds. Instead of gaining over a minute on Jan Ullrich he gains fourty seconds. Oh well, it should keep things more interesting. I'm already excited about the mountain stages. Things should get really exciting then.

[carterba]

I guess the point of the time-loss limit is to prevent damage to GC contenders who are on teams that aren't as rich as, say, Postal---which is kind of like giving baseball teams extra at-bats against the Yankees. If they want to limit damages, they should just shorten the course, not change the rules.

Nice work by Phonak and Tyler Hamilton today, but Postal was awesome. I want an animated GIF of the Blue Train...

[Trunk]

Mycroft -- I'm missing something.

I thought they put a "cap" on it like if you beat me by 4:00, they would change it to 2:00. But why would a "gaining a minute" be changed to "gaining 40 seconds".

Can you explain?

[Mycroft Holmes]

Originally Posted by ShibbOleth

In previous races, it seems when there was a crash the other teams would stop/slow down to let the downed rider back into the race. Is that not always the case, or am I missing something?

I guess it's not the case when you can eliminate two or three strong candidates for the yellow jersey. Basically Mayo was punished for not being near the front of the peloton like all the other favourites. Someone who has ridden Paris-Roubaix or one of the other spring races knows that the kilometers before reaching a stretch of cobblestones can be very chaotic and dangerous. Lance and most of his US Postal teammates have ridden a spring classic before, so they knew they had to be at the front of the peloton.

I guess Mayo can count this as a learning experience. He is still young, and he won't make the same mistake again. It's amazing how many people don't realize how the Tour can be a very tactical, strategic battle. It's not only the best cyclist who wins, it's usually the smartest too.

[Jackknifed Juggernaut]

In some previous years, the TDF didn't have a team time trial. So if they really wanted to take a swipe at Lance, they could have eliminated it alltogether. I think that limiting the loss was very fair today, especially since the weather was bad for the teams starting early. Postal took advantage of having to spend the least time in the rain.

In any case, I think that this year's winner will be determined in the unprecedented L'Alpe d'Huez time trial.

[Mycroft Holmes]

Originally Posted by Trunk

I thought they put a "cap" on it like if you beat me by 4:00, they would change it to 2:00. But why would a "gaining a minute" be changed to "gaining 40 seconds".

Well, US Postal finished 01'07" ahead of Phonak and 01'19" ahead of T-mobile. According to the old rules, Lance 's lead over Tyler Hamilton would have grown from 16 seconds to 1'23", but now it's only 36 seconds. So, that's a whopping 47 seconds that Lance had "stolen" from him. Jan Ullrich would have been 01'34" behind Lance, instead of the 55 seconds he is behind him now. That's 39 seconds that Lance had "sotlen" again. Sometimes (but rarely) the final margin can be just seconds. Witness Greg LeMond beating Laurent Fignon by mere seconds in 1989.

[carterba]

Trunk, the time loss caps were incremental. The difference between USPS and Phonak was over a minute, but the rule says that second place can lose no more than 20 seconds. For each place, the maximum time loss goes up: third place, 30 seconds; fourth place, 40 seconds; etc, up to last place, 4 minutes.

[Trunk]

Originally Posted by carterba

Trunk, the time loss caps were incremental. The difference between USPS and Phonak was over a minute, but the rule says that second place can lose no more than 20 seconds. For each place, the maximum time loss goes up: third place, 30 seconds; fourth place, 40 seconds; etc, up to last place, 4 minutes.

ah -- that's what I was missing. tough to find that kind of stuff.

Thanks to all.

Looks like tomorrow we get a bit hilly.

So, in others opinion, does Lance hold onto the jersey for the rest of the tour?

[Evil Captor]

I don't know how the hell you race on cobblestones. I once rode on some cobblestoned streets in Savannah, GA, and I was sweating tire damage because the stones were not small, they were quite large, and each one made a distinct "bump" as it hit my tires. Racing over something like that boggles the mind. Then againk I guess it boggles the riders, too.

[fiddlesticks]

Originally Posted by Trunk

So, in others opinion, does Lance hold onto the jersey for the rest of the tour?

Unlikely, still too many flat stages between now and the mountains. However, unless there is a successful escape tomorrow, I doubt that Lance will lose it immediately. He's put quite a gap not only on his main Tour victory rivals but also the sprinter types who have been battling for the yellow up until today. It'll probably take a few days worth of sprint bonuses to work that time back.

[Avenger]

Originally Posted by ShibbOleth

A question on the crash yesterday:

In previous races, it seems when there was a crash the other teams would stop/slow down to let the downed rider back into the race. Is that not always the case, or am I missing something? I thought it was a sportsmanship thing.

I thought this at the time too. It wasn't so much that they didn't slow down to wait (bit much to expect with an entire peleton not far from the finish), but that US Postal and Phonak took it upon themselves to drive the pace along in a deliberate attempt to ensure that Mayo could not get back to them. If they had not been doing that (and really there was no reason why they should in the normal context of the stage), he would've had a better chance of rejoining.

I can't help thinking that if Armstrong fell off tomorrow and some rival teams immediately went to the front of the bunch and drove the pace, there would be something of an outcry.

[LilyoftheValley]

Originally Posted by Mycroft Holmes

Also, the final time of the team time trial is ridden by the fifth rider from the team to cross the finish line. so basically, you could race the whole thing with five guys going all out, and the rest of the team walking their bikes to the finish.

Except that they have to finish within 25% of the team's time, or be disqualified, right? (Or was it 25% of the fastest time?)

As for today's results:
I'm not a particularly big Lance fan, but even I was touched by how close the team seemed to be. The smiles and hugs among the teammates after they crossed the line seemed sincere, and were nice to see. (I know, what a girly reaction. )

While we're on "girly reactions", I'll admit a small distate for Sheryl Crow since I still feel loyal to Kristin and the kids.

And a yay for Tyler.

[Archergal]

Originally Posted by LilyoftheValley

While we're on "girly reactions", I'll admit a small distate for Sheryl Crow since I still feel loyal to Kristin and the kids.

Uh, what's this about Sheryl Crow and Lance? Did I miss a memo or something? Wasn't he married with a kid or kids??

[Rick]

Originally Posted by ShibbOleth

A question on the crash yesterday:

In previous races, it seems when there was a crash the other teams would stop/slow down to let the downed rider back into the race. Is that not always the case, or am I missing something? I thought it was a sportsmanship thing.

If the race leader (yellow Jersey) falls the pack will not race away assuming he can get back up. See the video of Lance's fall last year.
In a pervious year, jan Ulrich fell just before a big climb. Lance waited for him to come back on the course, then droped him like a bad habit. Lance IIRC was in Yellow at that point, but since Ulrich was close he waited.
As far as I can tell this is not a rule, but rather courtsey, and custom.
Where is Boo Boo Foo when we need him to 'splain this stuff?

Uh, what's this about Sheryl Crow and Lance? Did I miss a memo or something? Wasn't he married with a kid or kids??

Was is the correct word. I have heard that Lance has a very "My way or the highway attitude" Aparently it was the highway for Kristin.

[Ellis Dee]

Originally Posted by LilyoftheValley

While we're on "girly reactions", I'll admit a small distate for Sheryl Crow since I still feel loyal to Kristin and the kids.

It appears to be for the best for all concerned, if you can believe what you see "in print".

Link

Unless, of course, Sheryl was in the picture before the separation. That wouldn't be good at all. I'm pretty sure that wasn't the case, though.

I'm definitely rooting for Lance to set the record this year.

[teela brown]

For watchers of OLN: what did you think of the series, "The Lance Armstrong Chronicles"? I think we saw a bit of the "my way or the highway" attitude displayed there.

[Trunk]

I'm not sure if I saw "The Lance Armstrong Chronicles". I've been tuning in and out so I'm not sure what I'm catching.

Definitely, team-wise, he seems like that's the case. Like Heras and Hamilton maybe didn't want to do it all for the glory of Lance, so they're gone.

Yesterday was interesting. I guess that Lance isn't going to hold onto the jersey.

I guess he should be able to make it up in the mountains though.

As I watch this year, it seems amazing that he would win 5 in a row just from the number of people you see go down, or just die on a certain day. 5 years is about 110 days of riding, without a mishap serious enough to take him out of contention? That's remarkable right there.

[Mullinator]

Strategy question. I know enough about the Tour to be dangerous but some of the strategies elude me.

In Stage 5, the peleton was content to let the breakaway group pedal along and win by a bundle of minutes. Today, the peleton reeled the breakaway group back in.

Why? Why was one group allowed to win by so much and the other one was slapped back to earth? Is it based on who the break away people were and the likelihood of them using it as a springboard?

[teela brown]

I'm no expert, either, Mullinator, but I believe the riders in the breakaway pack were all strong sprinters who may be able to forge ahead on the flats, but who are sure to be buried as soon as the first mountain stages start. The strongest riders in the peloton were simply not worried by letting these guys get ahead for now.

Was this the case, cycling experts?

[fiddlesticks]

With the wind and the rain on Thursday (especially the wind) no team was willing to waste energy at the top of the pelaton to reel the breakaway back in. Postal/Mobile/Phonak had no interest in bringing back the breakaway because none of the riders were overall Tour threats. The teams more interested in setting up their spinters for daily stage wins didn't want to waste their energy for future stages to get this particular stage.

Today's stage had nicer weather so the effort to bring back the breakaway wasn't nearly so great.