SDMB Musical Lovers' September Discussion - "Kiss Me Kate"

[ThatDuckIsEvil]

Howdy Do!!! Since I made my pick two days late, I thought I'd give everyone two more days to watch the flick.

Kiss Me Kate is just great fun. All the tunes are catchy and slick. And Anne Miller - YOWZA! Her "Too Darn Hot" number is just...... awesome. Everytime I watch it I always say: "Damn, I wish I could dance like that. I wish I had THOSE LEGS!!"

I've mentioned before that Catherine Grayson's voice is way too high for my taste and it sometimes grates the nerves = as in Show Boat and Anchor's Aweigh. But in this film, either it's toned down a bit or I'm just too entertained to let it bother me. She is great as Lily.

Howard Keel is a Legend. Plain and Simple. Anyone who says otherwise can come step outside with me and discuss it.

The comedic timing, the dancing, the sets and costumes. All of it is just pure unadulterated fun. Kiss Me Kate will always be one of my Top Ten.

Hope you Enjoyed It!!!!

-Duck

[DeVena]

I love this movie. Brush Up Your Shakespeare is not only well done but funny with the great choreography.

The first time I watched it, I thought it was incredibly annoying how they kept flinging various crap at the camera (shoes, hats, scarves, ann miller). Then I found out that it was originally filmed in 3-D. Now THAT's a version I'd love to see!


Oh and was Bob Fosse hot or what?

[twickster]

Sure, TDIE, start the thread when I'm in the middle of a ridiculously busy workday! (Not to busy to see that you'd started the thread, of course ... )

I'll have plenty of blah-blah later -- but just wanted to throw out my first impression, which was that it was odd that they did two of the best numbers in the movie, "So in Love" and "Too Darn Hot," in the first ten minutes -- and both outside the context of the show within a show.

Obviously they were moving stuff around from the stage version -- I'm pretty sure Cole Porter didn't appear in it -- but I'm less familiar with the stage version. I saw about half of the revival on PBS about six months ago, and know that they did "Too Darn Hot" as a number in the alley outside the theater where the chorus was kicking back (sic). They also start with "Another Op'ning," which doesn't appear at all in the movie -- is that song part of the original show, or not?

I'm going out tonight ... dang, y'all will have to wait till tomorrow for more than you wanted to know about what twicks thought about this film ....

[jayjay]

Originally Posted by twickster

Obviously they were moving stuff around from the stage version -- I'm pretty sure Cole Porter didn't appear in it -- but I'm less familiar with the stage version. I saw about half of the revival on PBS about six months ago, and know that they did "Too Darn Hot" as a number in the alley outside the theater where the chorus was kicking back (sic). They also start with "Another Op'ning," which doesn't appear at all in the movie -- is that song part of the original show, or not?

"Another Op'nin'" was definitely in the film's overture, though it wasn't actually included as a number. It was in the stage version.

I've always been ambivalent about the film version of KMK. On the one hand, Howard Keel and Kathryn Grayson are superb, and of course, Ann Miller. Keenan Wynn and James Whitmore just nailed the thugs. But I wasn't terribly happy with putting "Too Darn Hot" in the front and giving it to Ann Miller (when it was originally sung by Fred's valet), and the final dance number was TOO LOOOOOONNNNGGGGGG, Fosse and Hermes Pan aside.

I have to admit, though, that "Why Can't You Behave" and "Always True to You, Darling, In My Fashion" are enough to keep me humming for days, before we even get into "So In Love"...

[kunilou]

I did it on stage, and it certainly has good music, but...

I'm sorry, Howard Keel and Kathryn Grayson are just too stiff.

On the other hand, I feel perfectly comfortable arguing that james Whitmore and Keenan Wynn were the greatest comic relief in the history of movie musicals.

Keenan Wynn is truly one of the most under-appreciated actors ever.

[twickster]

Originally Posted by kunilou

On the other hand, I feel perfectly comfortable arguing that james Whitmore and Keenan Wynn were the greatest comic relief in the history of movie musicals.

Well, them and Eric Blore and Edward Everett Horton.

[Voyager]

I got to see Ann Miller live in Sugar Babies on Broadway, and she was fantastic 30 years after KMK.

I love the music, but my peeve with the movie is the censorship. Notice that they didn't use the words for Too Darn Hot in the opening? And they censored the hell out of Brush Up Your Shakespeare - at least if the version I saw at McCarter Theater was using accurate lyrics! But it is one of the best adaptations of Shakespeare ever, IMO.

[Fenris]

You guys do know that the movie was originally shot in 3D, right? That's why there's all those converging lines in on the ground (especially during the "Tom, Dick and Harry" number)...to highten the 3D effect.

I'm normally not a huge fan of 3D movies, but I'd love to see this one--if a 3D print even exists anymore.

[Fenris]

Originally Posted by Voyager

I love the music, but my peeve with the movie is the censorship. Notice that they didn't use the words for Too Darn Hot in the opening? And they censored the hell out of Brush Up Your Shakespeare - at least if the version I saw at McCarter Theater was using accurate lyrics! But it is one of the best adaptations of Shakespeare ever, IMO.

ALL movie musical adaptations from the '50s back were censored. Broadway was way more risque than Hollywood. Even a show as clean and wholesome as Oklahoma!, one of the cleanest musicals out there had lyrics changed by Hollywood
Original
They got a big thee-ater they call a 'burly-kew'
fer 50c y' c'n see a dandy show!
One of th' gals was fat 'n' pink 'n' pretty
As round above as she wuz round below
I could swear that she wuz padded from her shoulder to her heel
but later in th' second act when she begun t' peel
she proved that ev'ry thing she had wuz absoutely real!
She went about as fur as she could go...

Movie version
They got a big thee-ater they call a 'burly-kew'
fer 50c y' c'n see a dandy show!
One of th' gals was fat 'n' pink 'n' pretty
As round above as she wuz round below
I could swear that she wuz padded from her shoulder to her heel
but then she started dancin' and her dancin' made me feel
that ev'ry single thing she had wuz absoutely real!
She went about as fur as she could go...

Sadly, it's a convention of the genre. But I agree--"Brush Up Your Shakespeare" is far better with the original lyrics.

[amarinth]

As is "Always true to you" and the Kate/Petruchio scene is better with the original lines but I'm guessing the Hayes code wouldn't allow "With my tongue in your tail"

I already returned the tape - so this'll be somewhat random.

I've never seen the live show (always ended up missing it somehow) so, I didn't know where "Too Darn Hot" was really supposed to be. I liked Ann Miller dancing it (given) but more than once, I really hated pan & scan (there she is, dancing, and for some reason all we can see is from the collarbone up. Show me her legs and feet, at least torso for goodness sakes!) I'd forgotten how good the non "play within a play" costuming was because the play w/in a play costume is so hideous (Who came up with the idea to put Kathryn Grayson in a not found in nature colored wig that clashed with her costumes? She looked awful, even compared to the other people in the skintight, dayglo unitards). I also think I would have liked So In Love somewhere else, too. (It's the only song that either Howard Keel or Kathryn Grayson sings that I like - I have a hard time liking them, because "Wunderbar," "I've Come to Wive it Wealthily," and "Where is the life that late I led" just aren't my favorite tunes, and I flat out hate "I Hate Men" both the song and the staging.)

I don't get "We Open in Venice" is it used as a set change in the show? Because it doesn't really work (also it was clear that KG just wasn't the dancer that the other three were).

"Tom, Dick, or Harry" and "Why Can't You Behave" on the rooftop would have been amazing to see in 3D.

In the Debating Society thread, I said I didn't like the plot, and I still don't (I don't like the plot of Taming of the Shrew, either). I just have a hard time laughing at her slapping him around and him spanking her on stage. I don't think it aged well. Or maybe it's just me.

The Fosse number at the end was great to watch (it didn't really fit, but I didn't really care).

[supervenusfreak]

Good heavens this was such a fun movie to watch this afternoon. . The DVD had a great mini-documentary hosted by Ann Miller herself, with interviews with Kathryn Grayson, looking lovely, and Howard Keel, looking as handsome as ever. I think that the dancing and the songs are absolutely terrific. Anytime Ann Miller was on screen tapping away, there was such a wonderful energy. As for the 3-D thing, I would LOVE to see it like that. In the documentary, Ann explains that is why she is seen throwing things at the screen during "Too Darn Hot". A boffo choice!

[supervenusfreak]

Ok now jayjaybear is mocking me for using the word "boffo" in my post! Am so gonna get even with him the best way I know how!

[twickster]

svf -- we're all mocking you for using the word "boffo" ...

[supervenusfreak]

Originally Posted by twickster

svf -- we're all mocking you for using the word "boffo" ...

LOL. What can I say. Big ole musical geek here.

[Krisfer the Cat]

Okay, its been a couple years since I saw this movie( even tho I have the VHS< the VCR is hooked to the TV the 8 yr old dominates), but I remember having the biggest WTF? at Ann Miller and "Too Darned Hot". The first version I had of it was played on Dr. Demento, of all places, and way a LOT more risque. The version I was most familiar with was Erasure's on the Red, Hot and Blue CD and frankly my feeling was that Ms Miller did unto the song what Jason does to kids at the lake. I had the hardest time watching the rest of the movie.

*looks around " Ummm why do you all have ropes? Oh come on I'm not that auuuuuuggghhhhhh"*

[twickster]

I was about 20 minutes into writing my post last night when I lost my internet connection -- naturally, I was working directly in the reply box. I was too disheartened to start again immediately. Have no fear, I'm in notepad now.

kunilou -- I'm with you on Kathryn Grayson and Howard Keel. They're both way too stagy for my taste (unlike, say, my idol Fred, who was a monument of naturalism -- but I digress). It kind of works in this film, which is all about staginess, but Howard Keel always makes me think of Jon Lovitz doing Master Thespian.

Voyager, Fenris -- I was intrigued by your reference to the original lyrics ffor "Brush Up Your Shakespeare" and found the following link. Heh. That Cole Porter -- what a rascal!

amarinth -- disagree about the "show within a show" costumes -- I like 'em. De gustibus. I do, however, totally agree about "I Hate Men" -- the song itself doesn't work, let alone Ms. Grayson's performance of it.

Everyone -- agree that it would be way cool to see the 3-D version.

Other thoughts:

As I said the other day, I don't like that the two best numbers are jammed into what is effectively an intro to the movie. "So in Love" is just an amazing song (it's on the Caetano Veloso CD I keep talking about, and I always stop and listen to it when it comes on). I was expecting it to be reprised later in the movie -- in part because I had a mental image of who I thought was Howard Keel standing on stage in a candy-colored costume singing it in something I've seen recently. Then I realized it wasn't from a compilation movie (I mentioned elsewhere watching That's Dancing recently), but from De-Lovely. That was a relief, I thought I was totally losing my mind. Anyway, it's a gorgeous song, and I can't believe they just blew it off with what is an almost off-hand presentation at the very top of the movie.

On Ann Miller -- she's phenomenal. That thing she does of her toe vibrating at a million miles a minute are called nerve taps, and they are really, really hard to do at the speed and control she does them. I think she's great -- I love her ability to sell a song and dance. And, no, I do realize she's not exactly all about naturalism either -- but her gusto is delightful.

I was intrigued by Tommy Rall. (Totally OT -- too bad he never became a big star, becasue RALL would be a very useful crossword entry) Here is his IMDb bio. I'd thought I'd never seen him before -- I think I can be excused for not having noticed him as one of the Seven Brothers for whom there were Seven Brides. Makes sense that his main training was in ballet -- what a dancer!

A wonderful choice, ThatDuckIsEvil -- I really enjoyed it, once I found a copy. (Neither of the two local branches of the library I visit regularly had it, nor did my usual video store -- had to go to my backup video store. I was a little surprised.) As I mentioned in an earlier post, I saw about half of the PBS broadcast of the recent stage revival on TV a few months ago -- unfortunately, I had to go out in the middle of it, I'm wishing now I'd taped it. I'd like to watch that again and compare the way the two divvy up the songs, etc.

[Fenris]

Originally Posted by amarinth

I don't get "We Open in Venice" is it used as a set change in the show? Because it doesn't really work (also it was clear that KG just wasn't the dancer that the other three were).

Th' thing about "Kiss Me Kate" that you gotta keep in mind (especially in the stage version) is that it makes no sense. It's never clear (in the staged version--it was cleared up a little in the movie with the fake Cole Porter playing "Too Darned Hot" for Lois) if Fred is putting on "The Taming of the Shrew" or "The Taming of the Shrew-The Musical!"It's also not clear if the characters in the play are actors performing "TTotS-TM!"--"We Open In Venice" would suggest it (the "Troupe of strolling players"), but it's never seen again--are the characters singing because they're in "TTotS-The Musical" or are they singing because "Kiss Me Kate!" is a musical and people sing in musicals?

Another bit of weirdness is that in the second banana subplot, nothing happens. They've actually got more songs that they sing to each other than Fred and Lilly--She sings "Why Can't You Behave", then he sings "Bianca" then she sings "Always True To You Darling (In My Fashion)"--but nothing happens in their relationship. I know-I keep going back to Oklahoma! but it's apt here--they're essentially Ado Annie (compare "I Cain't Say No!" to "Always True To You"--they're both loose women, but Ado Annie's price ("Whatcha gonna do when a fella gets flirty/'n' starts ta talk purdy, Whatcha gonna do?") is considerably lower than Lois's ("Mister Harris, plutocrat/
Wants to give my cheek a pat/ If the Harris pat/Means a Paris hat/Baby!...") but essentially the same. Ditto with Will and whatshisname. Good guys who make dumb choices. But in Oklahoma! the subplot is important and it's resolved. In Kiss Me Kate, it's just forgotten.

Don't get me wrong, if I was listing top 20 classic musicals, it'd be in it, and it might make the top ten. But don't make the mistake of trying to figure it out. It is a thing of beauty but it doesn't make a ton of sense.

[ThatDuckIsEvil]

Exactly why I love it so much, Fenris, I agree with you. You can't take it seriously, it's plain ol' eye/ear candy.

Had NO idea it was filmed for 3D. Bizarro.

Glad this one sparked a good convo. Hope those who disliked it weren't too annoyed watching. Can't wait for the next pick!