The Straight Dope

Go Back   Straight Dope Message Board > Main > In My Humble Opinion (IMHO)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-19-2004, 01:01 AM
fknmclane fknmclane is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Bruce Lee vs Chuck Norris ... who actually wins?

I've heard arguments on this topic for some time now. First of all, did Chuck Norris and Bruce Lee ever fight in real life?

If they did, is it humanly possible that Bruce Lee was beaten? The man was a superhuman force, succumbing only to allergic reactions. Is it possible that the Texas Ranger going by the handle "Walker" actually took him down?

I think not, but I need confirmation or I need to be postively rebuffed. I know this is the place to ask, so please...a little help?

Thank you.
Reply With Quote
Advertisements  
  #2  
Old 09-19-2004, 01:14 AM
Duckster Duckster is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 12,927
WAG.

Since the martial arts are self defense, any actual fighting between the two would violate the Prime Directive for one or both of them.

Norris began the Walker, Texas Ranger role 20 years after Lee died.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-19-2004, 01:19 AM
JimOfAllTrades JimOfAllTrades is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Here’s a link to a discussion from about a month ago on this very topic:

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...d.php?t=270485

No clear conclusions, but Norris was apparently a lot tougher than people give him credit for.

A fight between Norris and Lee with both in their prime might have been closer than you’d think.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-19-2004, 04:07 AM
Shakes Shakes is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Dallas Tx.
Posts: 10,376
No way, both are great fighters. But I can't imagine Chuck beating Bruce.

Bruce is about three times as quick as Chuck is.. Or at least it seems that way to me. I have no cite to back this claim up.

/Avid fan of the Green Hornet.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-19-2004, 09:34 AM
MEBuckner MEBuckner is offline
Charter Member
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Posts: 10,358
Moderator's Note: Moving to IMHO.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-19-2004, 09:47 AM
SteveG1 SteveG1 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
In their prime, both were excellent. Lee was incredibly fast, Norris was extremely strong with perfect technique. One had a great roundhouse, the other had the prettiest spin kick I've ever seen. However, in his youth, Norris practically owned the tournaments. This gave him more experience against a wider variety of fighters. Lee may have been a little faster, but Norris was/is a very smart fighter. If they had ever faced each other in a tournament, it would have been awful close. Their big fight scene in one movie is still considered one of the best ever filmed, and a real fight would have probably looked just like that... brutal efficiency, mind blowing power, technical excellence from both of them. It would be too close for me to place any bets either way.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-19-2004, 02:06 PM
alterego alterego is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
What movie, SteveG1?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-19-2004, 02:10 PM
alterego alterego is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Oops nevermind, I found it in the other thread. Here's a crazy tidbit:
Quote:
In 1997, Chuck achieved another milestone in his life by being the first man ever in the Western Hemisphere to be awarded an 8th degree Black Belt Grand Master recognition in the Tae Kwon Do system. This was a first in 4,500 years of tradition
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-19-2004, 02:25 PM
JThunder JThunder is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Chuck wins, since Bruce is already dead.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-19-2004, 04:01 PM
Burrido Burrido is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
I tend to lean toward Lee wining. Norris was a great tournament fighter, but how was he when the refs are gone? Probably not as good. TKD sparring is limited on what you can and cannot do. ie No punching to the face. By all accounts, Lee fought alot of street fights in Hong Kong.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-19-2004, 04:27 PM
Boyo Jim Boyo Jim is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 30,877
Well, if there would be no rules to the fight except to win, it would be probabably boil down to who is the better shot. Neither of thes guy were idiots -- wouldn't YOU bring a gun if you were fighting either of them? I sure as hell would.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-19-2004, 04:57 PM
START START is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Wow that would be a good fight, Chuck Norris is definitely no push over and Bruce Lee if he won would not get an easy victory. I would root for Norris because so many people make the mistake of thinking he would be the underdog in the fight.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-19-2004, 05:20 PM
Sam Stone Sam Stone is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 25,531
My money is on Norris, for a simple reason: He outweighed lee by about 40 lbs. Lee was a very small man, and weight and reach are a big deal. Just ask a boxer who tries to move up in weight classes, even though he may be only moving up 10 lbs or so.

One unknown factor is how mean Chuck Norris was vs Lee. Lee was a reknowned street fighter in China who got in scraps all the time. He also famously was challenged by an extra on the set of 'Enter the Dragon', and beat him senseless. Norris was a great tournament fighter, but that doesn't mean much when it comes to a knock-down street fight. So Lee might have an edge there.

But then, for all I know Norris was mean as a snake himself, so it's an unknown.

Anyway Joe Lewis probably beats them both. Not at the same time, though.

What we need is to go back and collect all these guys in their prime and hold a UFC style winner take all tournament. Throw in Bill 'Superfoot' Wallace, and Benny "The Jet" Urquidez.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-19-2004, 07:56 PM
alterego alterego is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Stone

What we need is to go back and collect all these guys in their prime and hold a UFC style winner take all tournament.
How about Mortal Combat?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-20-2004, 06:09 PM
bughunter bughunter is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by fknmclane
Bruce Lee vs Chuck Norris ... who actually wins?
David Carradine, laughing all the way to the bank.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-20-2004, 11:17 PM
SteveG1 SteveG1 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by alterego
How about Mortal Combat?
How about a lumberjack or cage match?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-20-2004, 11:40 PM
Karellen Karellen is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2000
Lee was better by far, in technique, smoothness, and strength. His reactions and movements against whoever he faced consistently demonstrated a natural intelligence that never faltered. He could adapt and improvise in a way that Norris simply could not and still cannot.

We are talking about acting, right?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-21-2004, 12:05 AM
I Love Me, Vol. I I Love Me, Vol. I is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Amoral a Roma
Posts: 3,172
I gotta go wid Ditka.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-21-2004, 12:19 AM
buttonjockey308 buttonjockey308 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
I'd give the fight to Harry Caray.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09-21-2004, 09:05 AM
pravnik pravnik is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: TX
Posts: 13,378
Since this is the internet and all, I do have to point out that Lee was simply incapable of being defeated. Bruce Lee in his lifetime beat up thousands of men women and children, most of them at the same time, receiving only a small cut on his upper lip for his troubles, which did not bleed. A 40 story building, a shipload of iron ore, and a Boeing B-29 Superfortress once challenged Bruce Lee to a four-way death match; none was ever heard from again. Bruce Lee is widely regarded by most paleontologists to have traveled back in time and beat up the dinosaurs, causing their extinction. Bruce Lee soundly defeated the color brown. Pangea is believed to have separated after it lost a bet against Bruce Lee.

On the other hand, a 40 pound weight difference is pretty significant...
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 09-21-2004, 09:12 AM
pool pool is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Its 40 pounds of body hair!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 09-21-2004, 10:37 AM
My Darn Snake Legs My Darn Snake Legs is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
<hijack> What about Jet Li? That guy is super-ridiculus-fast.</hijack>

I'd probably take young Norris. The size and weight make up for the slight edge in quickness I think.
__________________
"Though the ignorant might sometimes be able to block the knowledgeable from getting what they prefer, the ignorant will never get what they prefer at all except by accident." - Thomas Christiano
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09-21-2004, 09:08 PM
Burrido Burrido is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by pravnik
Since this is the internet and all, I do have to point out that Lee was simply incapable of being defeated. Bruce Lee in his lifetime beat up thousands of men women and children, most of them at the same time, receiving only a small cut on his upper lip for his troubles, which did not bleed. A 40 story building, a shipload of iron ore, and a Boeing B-29 Superfortress once challenged Bruce Lee to a four-way death match; none was ever heard from again. Bruce Lee is widely regarded by most paleontologists to have traveled back in time and beat up the dinosaurs, causing their extinction. Bruce Lee soundly defeated the color brown. Pangea is believed to have separated after it lost a bet against Bruce Lee.

On the other hand, a 40 pound weight difference is pretty significant...
"This one time, someone dropped a spoon, and he killed the entire town!"
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 09-21-2004, 09:46 PM
My Darn Snake Legs My Darn Snake Legs is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Ninjas are totally sweet.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 09-21-2004, 09:55 PM
Evil Captor Evil Captor is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyo Jim
Well, if there would be no rules to the fight except to win, it would be probabably boil down to who is the better shot. Neither of thes guy were idiots -- wouldn't YOU bring a gun if you were fighting either of them? I sure as hell would.
I wouldn't just bring a gun, I'd bring a lot of Evil Minions with guns. Unfortunately, Evil Minions can't hit the broad side of a barn and they lead with their chins when they fight, so I'd prolly get my ass kicked anyway.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 09-21-2004, 10:36 PM
StGermain StGermain is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Toon Town
Posts: 9,415
Thisi s totally off-topic, but Chuck Norris is in Nashville today signing his new book. The DJ on my radio station talked about when Norris came to town in the mid '80's promoting the movie Delta Force. He interviewed Chuck then, and Chuck found out the DJ had a son who was in a coma. After the interviews, Chuck went with the DJ to the nursing home caring for the DJ's teenaged boys and he stayed for 3 hours talking to the boy, because he'd heard that coma patients needed the stimulus. No TV cameras, no publicity, just a famous man taking time out of his busy schedule to help a father and son.

The son remained in the coma for 6 years before he eventually died. The poster Chuck gave him hung over his bed until he died.

That makes him a winner in my book.

StG

BTW - my brother Rob worked out with Chuck's brother Aaron when he (my brother) was in the SEAL teams. Aaron wanted my brother to come work with Chuck, because Rob was a martial artist and looked remarkably like Chuck at the time (I think Rob was better looking until his nose got broken so many times in fights). I think Aaron wanted him as a stand-in/stunt man. Rob didn't take him up on the offer.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 09-22-2004, 09:31 AM
pravnik pravnik is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: TX
Posts: 13,378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burrido
"This one time, someone dropped a spoon, and he killed the entire town!"
I had to deliberately restrain myself from saying that one time I saw him totally uppercut some kid just because the kid opened a window.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 09-22-2004, 09:42 AM
bordelond bordelond is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Quote:
Originally Posted by My Darn Snake Legs
I'd probably take young Norris. The size and weight make up for the slight edge in quickness I think.
I have heard many times that without refs and rules, virtually any fight will end up on the ground.

Is much known about either Lee's or Norris's respective grappling abilities? Lee's history as a streetfighter (how well is this attested to, BTW?) would suggest that at worst he was an especially slippery guy to grapple with. But in an on-the-ground situation, Norris's size advantage might come more into play.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 09-22-2004, 11:09 AM
Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Dogpatch/Middle TN.
Posts: 28,714
<ahem>























Batman, if he's prepared.


Thank you.

You may go now.
__________________
"He is an abomination of science that curdles the milk of all honest men!"~~One Dr Chouteh, possibly commenting on Bosda Di'Chi.Or not.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 09-22-2004, 11:09 AM
pool pool is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Quote:
Thisi s totally off-topic, but Chuck Norris is in Nashville today signing his new book. The DJ on my radio station talked about when Norris came to town in the mid '80's promoting the movie Delta Force. He interviewed Chuck then, and Chuck found out the DJ had a son who was in a coma. After the interviews, Chuck went with the DJ to the nursing home caring for the DJ's teenaged boys and he stayed for 3 hours talking to the boy, because he'd heard that coma patients needed the stimulus. No TV cameras, no publicity, just a famous man taking time out of his busy schedule to help a father and son.

Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 09-22-2004, 01:24 PM
Jayrot Jayrot is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
I can say with absolute certainty that Bruce Lee would win in a googlefight with Chuck Norris.

cite
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 09-23-2004, 01:56 PM
lurkernomore lurkernomore is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Norris. Norris was too much bigger. There IS a reason they have weight classes. Lee, pound for pound, was probably better.

And there is probably some 225 pound guy we never heard of that would beat either. The same way Chuckie Zito supposedly levelled Van Damme in that strip club.

Wonder how old Tex Cobb would do....
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 12-05-2004, 07:12 AM
China Guy China Guy is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 9,399
IIRC, it was Fist of Fury where Bruce and Chuck duke it out in the Roman Collesium.

Bruce had impressive ground techniques and was a master of sticky hands. No idea how Chuck fares in those areas.

In a real fight, speed and quickness will overcome 40 pounds. Come on, we're talking about who can break who's knee first and not boxing
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 12-05-2004, 10:58 AM
Enola Straight Enola Straight is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayrot
I can say with absolute certainty that Bruce Lee would win in a googlefight with Chuck Norris.

cite

Impressive Fnord technique, grasshopper.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 12-05-2004, 09:18 PM
Carnac the Magnificent! Carnac the Magnificent! is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by China Guy
IIRC, it was Fist of Fury where Bruce and Chuck duke it out in the Roman Collesium.

Bruce had impressive ground techniques and was a master of sticky hands. No idea how Chuck fares in those areas.

In a real fight, speed and quickness will overcome 40 pounds. Come on, we're talking about who can break who's knee first and not boxing

Actually, "Return on the Dragon."

It's important to remember that Norris' championships pre-dated the full contact era.

Another key fact: Norris was one of Lee's students.

Another: Lee said the best "street fighter" he had ever seen was North Carolinan Joe Lewis. Superfoot Wallace was another (full contact) rink fighter. In a street fight, a street fighter will have a distinct advantage.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 12-05-2004, 09:23 PM
Carnac the Magnificent! Carnac the Magnificent! is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
[QUOTE=Carnac the Magnificent!]Actually, "Return on the Dragon."

[QUOTE]


Return OF the Dragon.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 12-06-2004, 12:06 AM
Sam Stone Sam Stone is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 25,531
I mentioned him before, but he seems to have passed unnoticed:

Benny "The Jet" Urquidez. Mean as a snake, brutal in the ring, and look at the record:
  • Black Belts in 9 different styles
  • Professional fighting record: 200-0
  • Title defense record: 63-0, with 57 knockouts
  • Six World Championships in five weight divisions for 24 consecutive years.
  • "The Jet" is the longest reigning World Champion of all Professional Sports in history

Quote:
Coming out of retirement in 1993 at the age of 42, he again demonstrated his unique fighting style, defeating Yoshihisa Tagami the 25-year-old Japanese World Welterweight Champion to win the World Light Middle Weight Championship.
Best kickboxer ever. He had a spinning back kick that was so fast you could hardly see it, and the impact from it would make you go 'oomph' in sympathy with the guy who just got hit. He ended fights with that kick on numerous occasions.

Special trivia bonus: He was the 'hitman' who tried to kill John Cusack in the school in "Grosse Pointe Blank".
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 12-06-2004, 08:47 AM
Shodan Shodan is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Milky Way Galaxy
Posts: 26,201
Benny Urquidez also won one of the first "NHB" tournaments in Hawaii, beating a guy named Goodridge (IIRC) who outweighed him by seventy pounds in the finals. This was back in the seventies.

Regards,
Shodan
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 12-06-2004, 09:59 AM
BMalion BMalion is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 9,602
All this talk of Bruce Lee's street-fighting cred, any proof?
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 12-07-2004, 09:25 AM
Shodan Shodan is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Milky Way Galaxy
Posts: 26,201
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMalion
All this talk of Bruce Lee's street-fighting cred, any proof?
Well, he is alleged to have broken Bob Wall's ribs with a kick while sparring with him during the filming of Enter the Dragon. Bob Wall was a point tournament champion. Lee was also boxing champion of Hong Kong as a younger man. He also kept a diary of the street fights he got in while living in Hong Kong and studying wing tsun.

Nobody is invincible, and no doubt he looked better fighting in movies than he would have IRL. And he never fought any grapplers that I know of, so I suspect he might have been just as surprised as the strikers were in the first several UFCs. There is almost no mention of ground fighting in Lee's Tao of Jeet Kune Do, or any of the rest of his works.

I read an anecdote in Black Belt magazine where Lee was asked what he would do if confronted with an opponent who began a fight by sitting down on the ground, as the old Fusen jujutsu-ka did in a famous 1900 tournament in Japan. Lee said he would walk away.

I suspect Lee was genuinely good. Not as good as he appeared in the movies, but nobody ever is.

Regards,
Shodan
Reply With Quote
Reply



Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@chicagoreader.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Publishers - interested in subscribing to the Straight Dope?
Write to: sdsubscriptions@chicagoreader.com.

Copyright © 2013 Sun-Times Media, LLC.