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  #1  
Old 09-24-2004, 06:32 PM
cryptic_j cryptic_j is offline
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What is worse:- Underage girls who look/act much older - or girls who look underage?

What I mean here - before I get accused of anything...

If you find a girl attractive - at a club, or walking down the street - and maybe you chat her up - - is it worse if she IS underage but looked and acted older... or if she looks underage but is say - in her mid twenties...

It's a debate I've had with work colleages before - and it's a touchy subject.


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  #2  
Old 09-24-2004, 07:09 PM
chaparralv8 chaparralv8 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cryptic_j
What I mean here - before I get accused of anything...

If you find a girl attractive - at a club, or walking down the street - and maybe you chat her up - - is it worse if she IS underage but looked and acted older... or if she looks underage but is say - in her mid twenties...

It's a debate I've had with work colleages before - and it's a touchy subject.


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How old are you? If you're 17-19 and she's 15 then you only have to avoid sex, drugs and alcohol and you'll be fine. If she's 20-23 but looks a lot younger than that, there's no problem at all.

However, if you're 25-30 and she is a lot younger than you, then you may have a problem. As an adult, you should be able to recognize pretty quickly whether you're talking to an adult or an adolescent.
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  #3  
Old 09-24-2004, 07:10 PM
casdave casdave is offline
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Men who are not secure enough in themselves to want to date a woman and instead look for a child substitute.
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  #4  
Old 09-24-2004, 09:38 PM
Mr2001 Mr2001 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cryptic_j
If you find a girl attractive - at a club, or walking down the street - and maybe you chat her up - - is it worse if she IS underage but looked and acted older... or if she looks underage but is say - in her mid twenties...
Worse in what sense?

The former is worse in that you're likely to get in trouble because of it.

The latter is worse in that it says something unfortunate about the type of girls you're attracted to.
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  #5  
Old 09-25-2004, 12:54 AM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is online now
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Once when I was around 22, I was flirting with a girl I though was around my age, maybe a year or so younger. I then found out she was 17. While legally I might have been in danger I don't feel I was acting immorally. I honestly believed I was hitting on a woman my own age.

On the other hand, if I had been flirting with a 21 year old in the mistaken belief that she was only 17 (or an 18 year old in the mistaken belief she was only 14), I would have been legally okay but morally I would be wrong.
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  #6  
Old 09-25-2004, 01:34 AM
Mr2001 Mr2001 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Nemo
On the other hand, if I had been flirting with a 21 year old in the mistaken belief that she was only 17 (or an 18 year old in the mistaken belief she was only 14), I would have been legally okay but morally I would be wrong.
Would you still feel you were acting immorally if you were in a jurisdiction where the age of consent were lower than 17 (or 14)?
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  #7  
Old 09-25-2004, 03:43 PM
ThatGuy ThatGuy is offline
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the whole immoral thing based on age of consent legality seems so silly to me. My girlfriend of two years and i are a few years apart, and now we are on different sides of the age barrier. I have a hard time believing that my dating her was pefectly fine a year ago but is now immoral (until another year goes by). Doesn't an age difference law make more sense?
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  #8  
Old 09-25-2004, 07:16 PM
capacitor capacitor is offline
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Definitely full-figured, adult-acting 15 year olds. Hands off the jailbait.
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  #9  
Old 09-25-2004, 08:52 PM
laigle laigle is offline
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I'd say it's merely a shift in the moral problem. You hitting on a girl who looks underage but isn't is a moral issue for you. A girl who is underage passing as older to seduce unwitting men is a moral issue for her. Scale, as always, is situational.
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  #10  
Old 09-25-2004, 09:06 PM
BrainGlutton BrainGlutton is offline
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The OP should have phrased the question, "Which is better . . . ?"

That said, it would be a tough call!
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  #11  
Old 09-25-2004, 10:58 PM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is online now
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Quote:
Would you still feel you were acting immorally if you were in a jurisdiction where the age of consent were lower than 17 (or 14)?
I know there are areas where 14 is the age of consent. In my opinion, anyone who would travel to another city with the intent of picking up women who are too young back home has some moral issues. Of course, in my opinion at least, I don't think a 14 year old should be having sex with anyone else, including another 14 year old.

Personally, I'm old enough now where I'd feel immoral dating a 25 year old.
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  #12  
Old 09-25-2004, 10:58 PM
Anaamika Anaamika is offline
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First of all, is this even a Great Debate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by casdave
Men who are not secure enough in themselves to want to date a woman and instead look for a child substitute.
Isn't this a bit harsh? I mean, he's not even talking about dating yet, just about meeting someone at a club or on the street.

In answer to the OP, I'm female and I have to say it's the 15 year old girls looking and acting much older that are much worse.
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  #13  
Old 09-25-2004, 11:45 PM
Lamia Lamia is offline
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If this is a moral question and not a strictly legal one, then we've got to consider intent. Someone who flirts a bit with a mature-looking adolescent at a club, but refuses to take things further when it becomes apparent that they aren't dealing with an adult, has not done anything morally wrong. Someone who goes after an adult they believe to be an adolescent has the same intent as someone who goes after actual adolescents.
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  #14  
Old 09-26-2004, 12:27 PM
cryptic_j cryptic_j is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrainGlutton
The OP should have phrased the question, "Which is better . . . ?"

That said, it would be a tough call!

Funny you should say that - when I was discussing this at work - and said about girls who look much younger, one person said "You've seen some that good?"


My rule of morality for dating would be if they are older than my sister... (I'm 25, she is 17) - - in the UK 16 is the legal age...

having said that, when I was single I did hit on people her age.. (but I was a few years younger)

luckily it's not an issue for me now...

but the legal/moral thing is interesting - - I mentioned to my girlfriend last year that Hilary Swank was hot and that "I would" - to tease her ( I hope to god I've got the right name here ) - -and she berated me because she's 16.. not 18... and therefore that was both immoral AND illegal (my girlfriend is American, legal age 18)

When I was 22 I had a 16 year old girlfriend - - although potentially frowned upon by some of my friends - - there was no real moral or legal issue in it that I saw ( it didn't last.. I was too immature for her ) - - but the idea of that relationship to m,y current girlfriend would be the same to me as someone going with a 14 year old and being 20.

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  #15  
Old 09-26-2004, 12:40 PM
ParentalAdvisory ParentalAdvisory is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr2001
The latter is worse in that it says something unfortunate about the type of girls you're attracted to.
So if you're a guy who's attracted to a women who is 24, but looks 16, makes the situation unfortunate and immoral some how?

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  #16  
Old 09-26-2004, 01:09 PM
yoyodyne yoyodyne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cryptic_j
- - I mentioned to my girlfriend last year that Hilary Swank was hot and that "I would" - to tease her ( I hope to god I've got the right name here ) - -and she berated me because she's 16.. not 18... and therefore that was both immoral AND illegal (my girlfriend is American, legal age 18)
I don't think that would be a problem
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  #17  
Old 09-26-2004, 01:13 PM
Lamia Lamia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cryptic_j
but the legal/moral thing is interesting - - I mentioned to my girlfriend last year that Hilary Swank was hot and that "I would" - to tease her ( I hope to god I've got the right name here ) - -and she berated me because she's 16.. not 18... and therefore that was both immoral AND illegal (my girlfriend is American, legal age 18)
You mean Hilary Duff, right? Anyway, the American age of consent varies from state to state. In some places it's 18, but in most states it's younger. I believe 16 is actually the most common age of consent in the US, and in a couple of states teens are "legal" at 14 or 15.

The age of consent may actually be 18 wherever your girlfriend comes from, but judging solely from what I've seen in related GD threads it seems that many Americans have the mistaken idea that there's some national age of consent and that this age is 18.
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  #18  
Old 09-26-2004, 01:33 PM
Mr2001 Mr2001 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParentalAdvisory
So if you're a guy who's attracted to a women who is 24, but looks 16, makes the situation unfortunate and immoral some how?
Immoral? No. But it is unfortunate, because your eyes (and, uh, other parts) are attracted to her body, not her age. One day you may find out that the girl who looks 16 really is 16, and then you may find yourself branded with the scarlet letter of a sex offender.
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  #19  
Old 09-26-2004, 01:52 PM
BrainGlutton BrainGlutton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cryptic_j
but the legal/moral thing is interesting - - I mentioned to my girlfriend last year that Hilary Swank was hot and that "I would" - to tease her ( I hope to god I've got the right name here ) - -and she berated me because she's 16.. not 18... and therefore that was both immoral AND illegal (my girlfriend is American, legal age 18)
I believe you were thinking of Hilary Duff. (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0240381/)

I know I do. Sometimes at 2 in the morning.
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  #20  
Old 09-27-2004, 05:58 AM
Scissorjack Scissorjack is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrainGlutton
I believe you were thinking of Hilary Duff. (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0240381/)

I know I do. Sometimes at 2 in the morning.

Maybe he was thinking of Hilary Clinton. Now she's old enough.
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  #21  
Old 09-27-2004, 09:32 AM
nocturnal_tick nocturnal_tick is offline
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I believe that it is far, far worse to mistake an older girl for being younger, than vice versa, but only if it infringes on the legal age limit. I mean what 30 year old woman wouldn't want to be mistaken for 25!

Unfortunately young girls are looking much older in recent times. I mean walk down the street and you'll see at least a handful of girls younger than 15 showing off flesh and wearing makeup and the like. Heck I've seen 8 year olds dressed up like that. I have the worst feeling that because of this social trends may start to take a turn for the worst.
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  #22  
Old 09-27-2004, 11:35 AM
BrainGlutton BrainGlutton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nocturnal_tick
Unfortunately young girls are looking much older in recent times. I mean walk down the street and you'll see at least a handful of girls younger than 15 showing off flesh and wearing makeup and the like. Heck I've seen 8 year olds dressed up like that. I have the worst feeling that because of this social trends may start to take a turn for the worst.
Or, we could just lower the age of consent . . .
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  #23  
Old 09-27-2004, 12:22 PM
dropzone dropzone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamia
You mean Hilary Duff, right?
She's a good example. A couple years ago, when she was illegal in most states, I could've sworn she was in her mid twenties. She looks like she's pushing thirty, now.
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  #24  
Old 09-28-2004, 10:17 AM
cryptic_j cryptic_j is offline
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Hilary Duff! (d`oh!) !#


I knew I had the name wrong deep down I think - - that serves me right

my girlfriend lives in Missouri...


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  #25  
Old 09-28-2004, 12:53 PM
Bryan Ekers Bryan Ekers is offline
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"So my girlfriend says: 'You know what? You're a pedophile.' So I says: 'Ooooh, pedophile. Big word for a twelve year-old.'"

For some reason this joke has always amused me.
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  #26  
Old 09-28-2004, 01:37 PM
Scarface Z Scarface Z is offline
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eliminate pedophilia

i figure i should start a dating site where pedophiles can meet and hook up with midgets and vice versa. think anyone would take the bait?
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  #27  
Old 09-28-2004, 04:20 PM
Mr2001 Mr2001 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Ekers
"So my girlfriend says: 'You know what? You're a pedophile.' So I says: 'Ooooh, pedophile. Big word for a twelve year-old.'"

For some reason this joke has always amused me.
Peter: "You better watch who you're calling a child, Lois. Because if I'm a child, do you know what that makes you? A pedophile. And I'll be damned if I'm gonna stand here and be lectured by a pervert."
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  #28  
Old 09-28-2004, 09:12 PM
Lamia Lamia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarface Z
i figure i should start a dating site where pedophiles can meet and hook up with midgets and vice versa. think anyone would take the bait?
Why would adult dwarves want to date pedophiles?
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  #29  
Old 09-29-2004, 02:59 AM
elfkin477 elfkin477 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamia
If this is a moral question and not a strictly legal one, then we've got to consider intent. Someone who flirts a bit with a mature-looking adolescent at a club, but refuses to take things further when it becomes apparent that they aren't dealing with an adult, has not done anything morally wrong. Someone who goes after an adult they believe to be an adolescent has the same intent as someone who goes after actual adolescents.
That's how I and several other women who look very young for their age look at it too. At sixteen, I looked about twelve. Older guys - by older I mean at least a decade older, some a few decades older- who would leer or flirt really creeped me the hell out because for all they knew, I was as young as I looked. Although the age of consent was in fact 16 in my state at the time, which would make it not legally wrong to hit on me or whatever, there's something really wrong with a grown man who'd look that way at a kid who for all appearances seemed so much younger than they actually are. They might not be pedophiles, but a lot of us assumed they probably were.
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  #30  
Old 10-01-2011, 12:16 AM
DemiserofD DemiserofD is offline
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I find these arguments to be unfair; being attracted to a certain body type doesn't make a person a pedophile any more than swallowing your own blood when you suck on your cut finger makes you a vampire.

I, for one, know that while I am attracted to the slender underdeveloped body type, i find little enjoyment in actually talking to people who are actually this age, and i strongly doubt their reactions to various...stimuli would be what i want, either.

Honestly, i find the entire system that limits various activities based solely on age to be, frankly, ridiculous. Take, for example, a japanese or chinese woman; they naturally have a body type that is very petite. In many cases a western person would not be able to tell the difference between a western child and a japanese or chinese fully grown female, so long as the woman makes regular use of a razor.

Another thing to consider is that in olden times, girls would be married EXTREMELY young. Not just baby marriages, either; girls would be married as young as 8 or 9 years old, and they would very soon take up all the same duties as any wife. Girls having children at 12 or 13 was extremely common...many people think that Mary, from the bible, was around that age when she became pregnant, so this has been happening for 2000 years.

Not entirely applicable, of course, but the point still stands; age has nothing to do with the ability to pursue sexual activities. I have met 14 year olds that are more intelligent and mature than people twice their age, and i've met 40 year olds that never left grade school(maturity-wise, anyway). The age limit is an arbitrary and subjective thing.


Pertaining to the question...i believe that it is the intent that matters, not the age. You do not intend to hurt the person in question. Isn't that good enough? Age means nothing, so long as your intentions are good. A good person with good intent will do far less damage to an underage girl, than a bad person with bad intent will do to a legal girl.

And that's all i have to say about that.
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  #31  
Old 10-01-2011, 12:51 AM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is online now
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Have you been waiting until this thread was old enough for you to post in it?
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  #32  
Old 10-01-2011, 01:08 AM
Farmer Jane Farmer Jane is offline
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I'm 26 and am frequently mistaken for a high school-er or a young college kid. I'm O.K. with that (most of the time). The only time I've ever been marked for older than what I was is when a student thinks I 'must be really old, like twenty eight or thirty or something'. Ha ha.

What really freaking irks me are the teens I teach that try to look older. Ugh. Ugh. Ugh. Put your ass cheeks back in your shorts and cover your chest area. Please. You do not look older. You look like a hooker with zits and braces.

How come we aren't complaining about parents who let their 8, 9, and 10 year old daughters dress like sluts? Short shorts/skirts, bare midriffs, mascara...? I saw a few girls at the synagogue yesterday who had skirts that were too far above the knee and they were tweens. Tweens. Wtf! At a conservative synagogue! THAT is alarming.
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  #33  
Old 10-01-2011, 02:19 AM
Locrian Locrian is offline
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I hate both situations, but I go with the looks under age.

I've been at weddings, parties, etc., and I'm a short guy. I tend to look for the small, cute and sexy factor. One time at a wedding, one hot girl was there with her boyfriend (booo!) but she had a little sister, and they both looked young, almost like twins. The one with the boyfriend was drinking from the bar, so I thought her sis was, maybe, 23-24. SHE WAS 15!!!

Then the opposite another time when a girl looked waaaay too young and she was actually chatting ME up! I paid no real attention to her and she left later. My friends were like, "Dude, she loved you! She's 28!!"

Last edited by Locrian; 10-01-2011 at 02:19 AM..
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  #34  
Old 10-01-2011, 11:52 AM
njtt njtt is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
Have you been waiting until this thread was old enough for you to post in it?
That made me laugh out loud!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DemiserofD View Post
Girls having children at 12 or 13 was extremely common...many people think that Mary, from the bible, was around that age when she became pregnant, so this has been happening for 2000 years.
God is such a pedo!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DemiserofD View Post
Pertaining to the question...i believe that it is the intent that matters, not the age. You do not intend to hurt the person in question. Isn't that good enough? Age means nothing, so long as your intentions are good. A good person with good intent will do far less damage to an underage girl, than a bad person with bad intent will do to a legal girl.

And that's all i have to say about that.
Well, yes, but I suspect that most actual pedophiles do not actually want or intend to harm children. They probably like to imagine having some sort of mutually fulfilling sexual relationship (even if they are smart enough to know that that is not a realistic hope). They are still going to harm the children, though, if they actually indulge their desires.
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  #35  
Old 10-01-2011, 12:01 PM
John Mace John Mace is offline
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Originally Posted by njtt View Post
God is such a pedo!
Well, God does love all his children, right?

He must love zombies, too.
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  #36  
Old 10-01-2011, 12:23 PM
apollonia apollonia is offline
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Originally Posted by DemiserofD View Post
Another thing to consider is that in olden times, girls would be married EXTREMELY young. Not just baby marriages, either; girls would be married as young as 8 or 9 years old, and they would very soon take up all the same duties as any wife. Girls having children at 12 or 13 was extremely common...many people think that Mary, from the bible, was around that age when she became pregnant, so this has been happening for 2000 years.
Please provide us with a reputable citation that in "olden times" (and please let us know to which point in history you are referring to), girls would be habitually married at age 8 or 9, be expected to "take up the same duties," and it would be "extremely common" for them to bear children at age 12 or 13. Refer to typical people, not aristocrats engaging in very young marriages for political purposes. Let us know at which point these girls would achieve menarche and be capable of bearing healthy children at age 12 or 13. Cite examples. Show your work.
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  #37  
Old 10-01-2011, 12:26 PM
Wesley Clark Wesley Clark is offline
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Define worse. Back in college I had a couple incidents where I'd talk to a woman (there were 30k college students in my town) only to find out she was a high school student instead of in college. So I'd back off, but that is a very dangerous issue. They should make women under 18 wear armbands or something so you know who is under 18, or at the very least tell them to stop dressing like hookers.

If you are hitting on women who are in their 20s and who you know are in their 20s but look like teenagers, that isn't really bothersome to me because that is just a thought. I wouldn't do it, but if that is your thing then go ahead. Just as long as you know they are over 18. Hitting on someone you actually think is 13, then being surprised to find out they are actually in their 20s is weird.

Take Spanky G who used to be the drummer in the bloodhound gang. Due to a kidney disorder when he was 17/18 he looked like he was 12. There is a pretty good shot of him at around 4:40

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJfFf1JJImY

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/pic...19715unoki.jpg

If some woman who knew he was 18 or so when that video was made liked him because he looked young, that is her thing. Midgets and people with endocrine problems need love too.

Last edited by Wesley Clark; 10-01-2011 at 12:29 PM..
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  #38  
Old 10-01-2011, 12:37 PM
njtt njtt is online now
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Originally Posted by apollonia View Post
Please provide us with a reputable citation that in "olden times" (and please let us know to which point in history you are referring to), girls would be habitually married at age 8 or 9, be expected to "take up the same duties," and it would be "extremely common" for them to bear children at age 12 or 13. Refer to typical people, not aristocrats engaging in very young marriages for political purposes. Let us know at which point these girls would achieve menarche and be capable of bearing healthy children at age 12 or 13. Cite examples. Show your work.
I am not sure the burden of proof is on DemiserofD here. What s/he said is pretty widely believed. I am not saying it is true (I don't really know), but if you happen to know better, you should be telling us how you know.
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  #39  
Old 10-01-2011, 12:47 PM
Farmer Jane Farmer Jane is offline
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It was my understanding that women may be betrothed (which in some circles has the legal implications of a bed-marriage) but not having sexual relations (aka 'married' married) and that in early Roman times, betrothed women may seal the deal around fifteen or so. Not eight years of age. Obviously that's going to vary from culture to culture and throughout different time periods. Not sure which 'olden days' you refer to.
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