Please explain this poker chip question

[kittenblue]

The store I work in sells a very nice poker set that has very basic, plastic chips in red, white and blue. Now I know very little about the current poker craze, and the last time I played we used pretzels and M&M's instead of chips, so I don't give a lot of importance to these things. Several customers have asked if we carry clay chips, so I assume that's the hot thing these days, but I always get the image of clay pigeons and think of them as very breakable!

So the other day a woman contemplating buying our nice, wooden-boxed set asks me how many grams the chips are. Forgetting for a moment that I am a retail lackey eager to make a sale, I say I don't know and then ask, "Is that really important?"

The withering stare I got was enough of an answer.

So I googled, and discovered that people seem to care about this. We have a cart at the mall "Casino Island" that sells these fancy-schmancy chips in aluminum suitcases, so I could go ask them, but I think they are biased.

So will someone please explain why the weight of the chips is so darned important? I mean, our box of plastic ones weighs a ton...if they were clay I wouldn't be able to lift it, I fear.

[Reno Nevada]

Well, clay chips "feel" better than plastic ones, and allow you to do neato tricks like shuffling two stacks of chips together with one hand while waiting for the deal. Plus, unlike M&Ms, you don't have people eating the antes, which throws off the betting.

With clay chips, the weight is (as far as I know) a measure of the quality of the chip. Heavier ones are higher quality and less likely to break.

Of course, if the chips are plastic, the weight doesn't mean jack, but your customer probably didn't know that.

[Tripler]

I bought very nice plastic (okay, they call them 'clay composite') chips, and I have to admit that the weight makes all the difference. The heavier the chip, the more "real" it feels. They're easier to stack and count, easier to throw into the pot, and much easier to handle in general.

About two years ago, I bought 500 chips, and now I found that isnt' enough. I have to go buy some more now. But you can find them anywhere online, for relatively cheap. I pay $0.25 per chip, but I tell you, these chips will last for years.

Shoot me an e-mail if you want me to send you a link to where I buy mine from.

Tripler
I'm a poker and craps player. That's why I needed so darn many.

[Otto]

Here's some more information about various compositions of poker chips.

[jnglmassiv]

Otto's link, while good at describing the chip differences, makes me wonder something. The author(s), like Tripler seem to say that weight is all the difference. But the article goes on the say that metal-under-plastic chips are somehow inferior. So now its not weight? Or are they just being elitist?

[StGermain]

We play with clay chips at home. Old clay chips, probably from the '50's. The thing about clay chips, besides the weight, is the sound. They have a low, solid sound. These were custom chips, with the original owner's initials in the middle of each chip. It's just nicer.

My family has always been a card-playing family. The kids (now in their 40's) played with the plastic chips as kids while the adults were playing in another room with the good cards and the good chips. And the good snacks, come to think of it.

StG

[Otto]

Personally I couldn't care less what the chips are made out of. Chip tricks don't impress me. The sound they make as they splash into the pot doesn't impress me. All that I care about when it comes to poker chips is getting them and exchanging them for cash at the end of the game.

[Sam Stone]

I much prefer clay chips, for lots of reasons. For one thing, they are much more stable when stacked. Ever accidentally knock over a stack of plastic chips? It's much easier to do, and when you do they can scatter and roll all over the place. Clay chips, when knocked over tend to just go 'thump' and stay where they are.

Second is the feel. A pile of heavy chips just feels a lot better than handling those lightweight plastic chips with the serrated edges. I'm one of those guys who fidgets - at work I've always got a pen spinning on my hand, or I'm squeezing a skoosh ball or something. I like playing with the chips while I'm playing cards. Soothing.

But maybe most important is the noise level. Put eight people around a table, given them all piles of plastic chips, and all night long you're going to listen to high-pitched 'ting ting ting' sounds. People splashing the pot make a racket. Even just stacking chips after winning a pot is loud. Clay chips are very quiet, and the nosie they make is lower pitched and much more pleasant.

Clay all the way. I spend a couple of hundred bucks for clay chips ten years ago, and I still have them and use them, they look like new, and they make every game we play with them more pleasant.

[Yeticus Rex]

I just bought (and gave it to my wife to give to me for Christmas) a clay composite poker chip assortment in an aluminum case for $60 at Costco. It contains:

150 white chips
150 red chips
100 blue chips
50 green chips
50 black chips
2 decks of cards (bicycle decks)
5 red craps style dice

I'm pretty sure thats the correct counts of chips......if not, I will post again to clarify. Really, really nice. It's one of those "I gotta haves". I tried to give a link to Costco, but it's not on their online shopping site.

[tracer]

Originally Posted by Yeticus Rex

I just bought (and gave it to my wife to give to me for Christmas)

[tracer]

Originally Posted by kittenblue

Now I know very little about the current poker craze,

The only two things I know about the current poker craze are:

(1) The game is always always always no-limit Texas hold-'em. Always. You are never allowed to play draw poker, or 5 card stud, or anything that doesn't involve flops, turns, and rivers. And:

(2) The poker chips they use on TV have insanely high values ($1000, $5000, $10,000, etc.), and there is no standard as to what the various colors mean. Every Poker show uses different chips with different values. There are apparently no universal standards for chip values above $500. So, knowing that white = $1 and red = $5 won't help you one bit.

[Waccoe]

The greater the weight of my poker chips, the greater my feeling of sexual potency when playing poker.

Heavy cufflinks anf tie pins are also a help.

[Otto]

Originally Posted by tracer

(2) The poker chips they use on TV have insanely high values ($1000, $5000, $10,000, etc.), and there is no standard as to what the various colors mean. Every Poker show uses different chips with different values. There are apparently no universal standards for chip values above $500. So, knowing that white = $1 and red = $5 won't help you one bit.

Which is more dramatic, a $1000 dollar pot with 100 chips in it or a $1,000,000 pot with 100 chips in it? Of course it's meaningless in a tournament situation but TV is about the drama.

(The chips also represent the buy-ins of the players. $10,000 buy-in gets you $10,000 in chips, multiplied by say 300 players and you're playing for three million dollars in chips! Except you're not, you're playing for whatever the prize pool is.)

AFAIK the various poker shows use the chips of the home casino. Borgata uses Borgata chips, Bicycle Club uses Bicycle Club chips and so on.

[KidCharlemagne]

I'm not typically guilty of falling for "Bigger is Better,' but I am when it comes to poker chips. I have the 13.5 gram clays and they just feel great. I love the weight and love the sound.

[kittenblue]

I took a closer look at the plactic chips in the set we sell, and they aren't the real cheap plastic chips with serrated edges...they are heavier and better looking. But I can't open a sleeve up and go weigh one on Godiva's scale, so the weight remains a mystery. But as soon as some bratty kid rips a sleeve open......

[commasense]

Originally Posted by kittenblue

I took a closer look at the plactic chips in the set we sell, and they aren't the real cheap plastic chips with serrated edges...they are heavier and better looking. But I can't open a sleeve up and go weigh one on Godiva's scale, so the weight remains a mystery. But as soon as some bratty kid rips a sleeve open......

Weigh the whole sleeve, and divide by the count.

[Yeticus Rex]

Originally Posted by tracer

Come to think of it......

The chips at Costco are 11.5 gram chips, but they look like this 13.5 gram set. No dealer or blind buttons though.

[Quercus]

One operational reason (as opposed to esthetics) for clay (or clay imitation) solid chips is that they are easier to count, as a stack of X chips is always the same height. So make a stack of ten, then you can count ten chips by making a stack that size. A stack of the cheap plastic ridged-edged chips varies too much to be able to count by height easily.

Plus the heavier 'clay' chips just feel nicer in the hand. Like drinking wine out of a nice glass versus a cheap plastic cup.

[Dunderman]

Originally Posted by tracer

(1) The game is always always always no-limit Texas hold-'em.

Actually, limit hold-'em is pretty common, and getting more so. Some experts consider it a better test of skill than no-limit.

[SmackFu]

It seems like a lot of the problems cited with plastic chips are due to the serrated edges. Wonder why they don't just ditch those? You'd still have the lack of weight but at least they'd stack better.

[KidCharlemagne]

Originally Posted by Priceguy

Some experts consider it a better test of skill than no-limit.

While pot-limit is probably considered the game where skill matters the most. No-limit is definitely starting to lost it's luster imo with so many preflop all-in's and worse yet calls.

[Otto]

But it's the idiots who make those dumbass all-in moves and call with hideous draws that pay you off more often than not.

[JSexton]

Originally Posted by SmackFu

It seems like a lot of the problems cited with plastic chips are due to the serrated edges. Wonder why they don't just ditch those? You'd still have the lack of weight but at least they'd stack better.

They're serrated to stack better, not worse. Because theose super cheap Hoyle chips are so light, a stack would blow over in mild breeze. The serrations let the chips sort of lock together, giving more stability to the stack. "Real" chips are heavy enough to be immobile.

[Icarus]

Originally Posted by Otto

But it's the idiots who make those dumbass all-in moves and call with hideous draws that pay you off more often than not.

[slight hijack]
I've been curious about this, especially watching the non-pro celebrity matches. Are you saying that, even though it's a very unsophisticated strategy, it is often a winning strategy? It sure seems like it in my admittedly anecdotal observations.[/slight hijack]

[Maus Magill]

Originally Posted by tracer

(1) The game is always always always no-limit Texas hold-'em. Always. You are never allowed to play draw poker, or 5 card stud, or anything that doesn't involve flops, turns, and rivers.

And what the hell is up with that? What ever happened to stud poker?

This Texas Hold-em crap reminds me of playing in fifth grade when every other frappin' card was wild.

Real poker = 5 card stud.

[JSexton]

Originally Posted by Icarus

[slight hijack]
I've been curious about this, especially watching the non-pro celebrity matches. Are you saying that, even though it's a very unsophisticated strategy, it is often a winning strategy? It sure seems like it in my admittedly anecdotal observations.[/slight hijack]

It's a very swingy strategy. Either you make a ton of money, or are gone really quickly. But when you are at a table with, say, five of these goons, and only two or three careful players, then the odds are that at least one goon will hit big, and now you have to deal with a big stack who can afford to throw money around.

Bottom line: It's not something I'd recommend for individuals to try. However, when playing against several people employing this strategy, you lose some of your best weapons. You can't bluff someone who is willing to call anything with marginal hands, for example.

[KidCharlemagne]

Originally Posted by Otto

But it's the idiots who make those dumbass all-in moves and call with hideous draws that pay you off more often than not.

No doubt. But alot of pros would rather give up some big gains for consistency of return.

[kaylasdad99]

I'm way glad that tracer hijacked this into a discussion of Texas Hold-'em Poker.

All this talk of chips was making me want a snack.

[tracer]

Believe me, 13.5 gram potato chips are anything but appetizing.

[tracer]

Originally Posted by Maus Magill

This Texas Hold-em crap reminds me of playing in fifth grade when every other frappin' card was wild.

What, you don't like to play "7 card stud, hole cards wild and all like 'em"?

Here's an idea: 6-card stud where you have to make the best six-card poker hand!

"Hah! My two three-of-a-kinds beats your three pair!"

[Sam Stone]

And what the hell is up with that? What ever happened to stud poker?

This Texas Hold-em crap reminds me of playing in fifth grade when every other frappin' card was wild.

Real poker = 5 card stud.

Nope. Texas Hold'em requires more skill. There's a reason why 5-card stud has died out. Now, 7-card stud is a MUCH better game. The additional betting rounds allow a good player to bet more or less as he gains information.

[Otto]

Originally Posted by JSexton

It's a very swingy strategy. Either you make a ton of money, or are gone really quickly. But when you are at a table with, say, five of these goons, and only two or three careful players, then the odds are that at least one goon will hit big, and now you have to deal with a big stack who can afford to throw money around.

Bottom line: It's not something I'd recommend for individuals to try. However, when playing against several people employing this strategy, you lose some of your best weapons. You can't bluff someone who is willing to call anything with marginal hands, for example.

That's pretty much it exactly. You can make money even at a table full of them (often referred to as "maniacs") but it's hard. You have to tighten up, restrict your play to higher quality starting hands and be prepared to throw away hands which you otherwise wouldn't. In the long run these sorts of players tend not to do well; they throw money at hands they shouldn't be anywhere near and the few times they hit are generally far outweighed by the many times they don't.

I was in a single table side game with three of this type out of nine players. I wasn't getting much of anything in the way of cards so I was holding back. I ended up taking second (and doubling my buy-in) without winning a single pot until there were only four players left because the maniacs kept battling each other and taking chunks out of each other, weakening themselves to the point where the more solid players could pick them off.

[Dunderman]

Originally Posted by Maus Magill

This Texas Hold-em crap reminds me of playing in fifth grade when every other frappin' card was wild.

Why? I've never played in a hold-'em game with wild cards. I don't think anyone does.

Real poker = 5 card stud.

It's fun, but it's not a game I'd play seriously.

[KidCharlemagne]

Originally Posted by Maus Magill

And what the hell is up with that? What ever happened to stud poker?

This Texas Hold-em crap reminds me of playing in fifth grade when every other frappin' card was wild.

Real poker = 5 card stud.

I could certainly understand how you might think 7-card stud is "real poker," but certainly not 5. There just isn't a nice enough range of probable hands to make it interesting. OTOH, after two rounds of 7-card stud, I'm exhausted. already.

[Maus Magill]

Originally Posted by KidCharlemagne

I could certainly understand how you might think 7-card stud is "real poker," but certainly not 5. There just isn't a nice enough range of probable hands to make it interesting. OTOH, after two rounds of 7-card stud, I'm exhausted. already.

I liked 5-card stud, because it took real intestinal fortitude. Unfortunately, I am horrible at bluffing, and I like to keep my money, so I don't play poker any more. Actually, I'm horrible at all types of gambling.

Back to the OP, I feel chips is chips.

[JSexton]

Originally Posted by Otto

That's pretty much it exactly. You can make money even at a table full of them (often referred to as "maniacs") but it's hard. You have to tighten up, restrict your play to higher quality starting hands and be prepared to throw away hands which you otherwise wouldn't. In the long run these sorts of players tend not to do well; they throw money at hands they shouldn't be anywhere near and the few times they hit are generally far outweighed by the many times they don't.

I was in a single table side game with three of this type out of nine players. I wasn't getting much of anything in the way of cards so I was holding back. I ended up taking second (and doubling my buy-in) without winning a single pot until there were only four players left because the maniacs kept battling each other and taking chunks out of each other, weakening themselves to the point where the more solid players could pick them off.

::blink, blink:: Didn't we already have this conversation in a pit thread a while back?

[Hamlet]

Originally Posted by Yeticus Rex

I just bought (and gave it to my wife to give to me for Christmas) a clay composite poker chip assortment in an aluminum case for $60 at Costco. It contains:

150 white chips
150 red chips
100 blue chips
50 green chips
50 black chips
2 decks of cards (bicycle decks)
5 red craps style dice

I'm pretty sure thats the correct counts of chips......if not, I will post again to clarify. Really, really nice. It's one of those "I gotta haves". I tried to give a link to Costco, but it's not on their online shopping site.

I love, love, love Costco. I had been in the market for poker chips for awhile, but I couldn't bring myself to spend the dough for clay chips, so I was thrilled to see the chip set at Costco for a very reasonable price. The chips were all wrapped up, so I wasn't sure if they were clay or clay composite, but they were certainly heavy enough, so I got 'em. I really like them. They're not the top of the line, but they're nice and heavy and feel good in your hand. They don't sound perfect when you riffle them, but you really can't beat them for the price. I also noticed that the entire pallet sold out in about 3 days.

[KidCharlemagne]

Since we're talking about buying chips, I'll bring to your attention that if you sign up at Party Poker now, you can get a free 300pc 11g set by for playing just 250 raked hands with a minimum deposit of $100. That's a damn good deal.

[Otto]

Originally Posted by JSexton

::blink, blink:: Didn't we already have this conversation in a pit thread a while back?

Naw, in the Pit thread I was telling the poker posers who hit with crap over and over in the same session not to lecture like they were lord god king poker. If they're losing they can lecture all they want. I'll remember everything they're saying about why they're playing their shitty hands the way they're playing them and use it against them and take even more of their money.

Although now that I think about it, I pretty much was just giving out a synthesis of the comments some folks were making in that thread. Must be good advice if I paid attention to it.

[Dag Otto]

Originally Posted by tracer

What, you don't like to play "7 card stud, hole cards wild and all like 'em"?

Here's an idea: 6-card stud where you have to make the best six-card poker hand!

"Hah! My two three-of-a-kinds beats your three pair!"

Slight correction: In 6-card stud 'two three-of-a-kinds' is called a 'Full House Royale'

[Dag Otto]

Originally Posted by Maus Magill

This Texas Hold-em crap reminds me of playing in fifth grade when every other frappin' card was wild.

Real poker = 5 card stud.

Shhh! Don't tell him about Omaha high-low.

[friedo]

Originally Posted by Dag Otto

Shhh! Don't tell him about Omaha high-low.

What about one-eyed Witchita fizzbin?

[Uncommon Sense]

"One-eyed jacks and dueces are wild and I don't know if I'm winnin' or losin' this godamned dumb game!"

[asterion]

Originally Posted by Dag Otto

Slight correction: In 6-card stud 'two three-of-a-kinds' is called a 'Full House Royale'

(Insert your own Pulp Fiction joke here)

Seriously, people really play 6-card stud?

[tracer]

I thought 6-card stud was like 7-card stud except with only one hole card; i.e. each player tried to make the best 5-card hand with the 6 cards he/she was dealt.

Does 6-card stud really use all 6 cards to make a hand, so that 3 pair and a 6-card straight flush are possible?

[Dag Otto]

Originally Posted by tracer

I thought 6-card stud was like 7-card stud except with only one hole card; i.e. each player tried to make the best 5-card hand with the 6 cards he/she was dealt.

Does 6-card stud really use all 6 cards to make a hand, so that 3 pair and a 6-card straight flush are possible?

Oh, yes. Nothing like having your quad aces busted by quad threes with a pair kicker.



I've never heard of 6 card stud. I suppose you could do it at home if you wanted to have more than seven players playing 7 card stud, but even then you would want to stick with 5 card hands to keep the arguements down ("No, a six card flush beats three pair" "Does not!" "Does too!"). Never in a card room or casino.

[Gary T]

Originally Posted by kittenblue

I took a closer look at the plactic chips in the set we sell, and they aren't the real cheap plastic chips with serrated edges...they are heavier and better looking. But I can't open a sleeve up and go weigh one on Godiva's scale, so the weight remains a mystery. But as soon as some bratty kid rips a sleeve open......

Weigh the sleeveful and divide by the number of chips it contains.

[fruitbat]

Now that this has become a general poker hijack I wanted to share something that didn't rate its own thread, Now I know that given the millions of hands dealt online you will see most everyting eventually, but this was rather extraordinary.

***** Hand History for Game 1039563516 *****
50/100 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 6380808) - Sat Oct 09 12:23:47 EDT 2004
Table Table 11046 (Real Money) -- Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 7
Seat 1: Three_Chip (745)
Seat 2: marco40 (415)
Seat 3: deadbydawn13 (825)
Seat 5: saewty (1080)
Seat 7: wdcbooks (1420)
Seat 8: smokinmunges (2220)
Seat 10: melch1 (1295)
deadbydawn13 posts small blind (25)
saewty posts big blind (50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to wdcbooks [ 9h, Jh ]
wdcbooks calls (50)
smokinmunges calls (50)
melch1 folds.
Three_Chip folds.
marco40 calls (50)
deadbydawn13 folds.
saewty checks.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Th, Qh, 8h ]
saewty bets (50)
wdcbooks calls (50)
smokinmunges folds.
marco40 folds.
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 6h ]
saewty bets (375)
wdcbooks raises (1320) to 1320
wdcbooks is all-In.
saewty calls (605)
saewty is all-In.
** Dealing River ** : [ 7h ]
Creating Main Pot with $2285 with saewty
Creating Side Pot 1 with $340 with wdcbooks
** Summary **
Main Pot: 2285 | Side Pot 1: 340
Board: [ Th Qh 8h 6h 7h ]
Three_Chip balance 745, didn't bet (folded)
marco40 balance 365, lost 50 (folded)
deadbydawn13 balance 800, lost 25 (folded)
saewty balance 0, lost 1080 [ 4d Kh ] [ a flush, king high -- Kh,Qh,Th,8h,7h ]
wdcbooks balance 2625, bet 1420, collected 2625, net +1205 [ 9h Jh ] [ a straight flush, queen high -- Qh,Jh,Th,9h,8h ]
smokinmunges balance 2170, lost 50 (folded)
melch1 balance 1295, didn't bet (folded)

Not only did I make the seven card straight flush, but if you count the other guy we made eight cards to the straight flush. Next day I flopped a royal.

[Waccoe]

Bad luck that smokinmunges didn't get the King.

[JSexton]

Originally Posted by Dag Otto

Shhh! Don't tell him about Omaha high-low.

No game, not even Guts, makes me want to drink bleach more than Omaha. What sadistic bastard invented this? Trips in the hole! Yay! Except you can't actually play them all, sucker!