How many votes will the religion factor cost Kerry?

[BrainGlutton]

John Kerry is liberal, pro-choice Catholic. Which makes me wonder:

1) Are a lot of Catholics going to listen to their bishops and not vote for him, because he is pro-choice? Do the bishops really have that much power over their flock nowadays?

2) Are any Protestants going to refuse to vote for him, not because he's a liberal, but because he's a Catholic? Or did that attitude die with JFK?

3) Is anybody going to refuse to vote for him because he had Jewish ancestors? (I very much doubt it, I'm just including that for the sake of completeness.)

[Whack-a-Mole]

In general the Christian Religious Right is just that...right wing politics. The reasons for it are numerous such as family values and anti-abortion. They had a poor showing in the 2000 election and word is Karl Rove is working hard to see to it that they go to the polls this time around in big numbers.

1) Most Catholics I know vote their conscience and I know many who are liberal in general and do not vote the way the Pope/Bishops/Priests may want them too. That said as in any group you will see a spectrum of people and certainly there are many who will vote republican if their priest says that is the "correct" choice.

2) Haven't heard a thing about someone not voting for Kerry because he is Catholic. I think that died with JFK. Probably are a few out there who would vote on that basis alone but I doubt they add up to much and not enough for anyone on either side to take the time to worry about.

3) Again, have heard no such thing and think very few, if any, will vote on that basis.

[SteveG1]

I'm Catholic, and I don't let anyone, including some bishop, tell me how to vote.

[OliverTwistofLime]

If anything, for people who think as I, Kerry's religious stand would be advantageous to him.

I don't feel any President should shove religion on the populace as in Bush's stand on embryonic stem cell, abortion, and the like.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

My wife and my dad are both Catholic and are both voting for Kerry. In my experience, the laity of the RCC has not been especially responsive to any political overtures by the Church.

And just to be fair, the Church also condemns a few things that Bush supports, like the death penalty and illegal wars. And don't forget that Bush once campaigned at an openly bigoted, virulently anti-Catholic university. You could easily make a case for Bush being more toxic to Catholic ideology than Kerry.

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

And just to be fair, the Church also condemns a few things that Bush supports, like the death penalty and illegal wars. And don't forget that Bush once campaigned at an openly bigoted, virulently anti-Catholic university. You could easily make a case for Bush being more toxic to Catholic ideology than Kerry.

But some bishops have actually come out and said that any Catholic politician who is pro-choice is in a state of mortal sin and should be denied communion, and that good Catholics should not vote for such politicians. I don't think any bishops have said the same thing about politicians who are pro-war or pro-death-penalty.

[SteveG1]

Some bishops are "loose cannons" and they do not have the official backing of Rome. Even if they did, I for one will be voting MY way.

[BobLibDem]

1) I'm a Catholic Democrat and I'm pro-choice. If that makes me a "cafeteria Catholic" then so be it. Kerry has had my vote for months. My thoughts on abortion are similar to Kerry's- personally against it but I feel it not my place to impose restrictions on others. I don't think many American Catholics pay any heed to the bishops on voting or on contraception.

2) Any Protestants who would refuse to vote for a Catholic are probably the types that would vote for Bush anyway.

3) I don't believe so. Again, anyone who practices religious bigotry is likely already a Bush supporter.

[Frostillicus]

Frankly, I don't see many Catholics voting for Kerry just because he is Catholic, just as I don't see many Protestants voting against Kerry solely because he is Catholic. And anyone who would vote against him solely on the basis that he has Jewish ancestors is too stupid for words.

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by Frostillicus

And anyone who would vote against him solely on the basis that he has Jewish ancestors is too stupid for words.

We do have some of those, believe it or not. But I'm encouraged that, when Lieberman ran for VP in 2000, nobody raised an objection because he was Jewish. Not out loud, anyway. Thirty or even 20 years earlier, some people might have objected.

It is, if not significant, then at least interesting that Kerry, if elected, would be the first POTUS known to be of Jewish blood. In fact, a (Republican) Jewish friend of mine said he recently met Kerry's brother, who spoke at my friend's temple in St. Pete Beach; he's converted back to his grandparents' Judaism. (I didn't even know Kerry had a brother.)

[sleeping]

Originally Posted by BrainGlutton

We do have some of those, believe it or not. But I'm encouraged that, when Lieberman ran for VP in 2000, nobody raised an objection because he was Jewish. Not out loud, anyway. Thirty or even 20 years earlier, some people might have objected.

But the people who would let that affect their vote wouldn't support Kerry even that wasn't an issue. In fact, I doubt they would vote Republican either; most likely they would vote Nader, Buchanan, or someone completely obscure.

[sleeping]

. . . even if that wasn't an issue . . .

[BrainGlutton]

Silly as this whole thing is, apparently it's just not going away -- and might even be the foundation for a lasting electoral realignment. From today's (10/12/04) New York Times -- http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/12/po...rtner=homepage:

DENVER, Oct. 9 - For Archbishop Charles J. Chaput, the highest-ranking Roman Catholic prelate in Colorado, there is only one way for a faithful Catholic to vote in this presidential election, for President Bush and against Senator John Kerry.

"The church says abortion is a foundational issue,'' the archbishop explained to a group of Catholic college students gathered in a sports bar here in this swing state on Friday night. He stopped short of telling them whom to vote for, but he reminded them of Mr. Kerry's support for abortion rights. And he pointed out the potential impact his re-election could have on Roe v. Wade.

<snip>

Archbishop Chaput has discussed Catholic priorities in the election in 14 of his 28 columns in the free diocesan newspaper this year. His archdiocese has organized voter registration drives in more than 40 of the largest parishes in the state and sent voter guides to churches around the state. Many have committees to help turn out voters and are distributing applications for absentee ballots.

In an interview in his residence here, Archbishop Chaput said a vote for a candidate like Mr. Kerry who supports abortion rights or embryonic stem cell research would be a sin that must be confessed before receiving Communion.

"If you vote this way, are you cooperating in evil?" he asked. "And if you know you are cooperating in evil, should you go to confession? The answer is yes."

The efforts of Archbishop Chaput and his allies are converging with a concerted drive for conservative Catholic voters by the Bush campaign. It has spent four years cultivating Catholic leaders, organizing more than 50,000 volunteers and hiring a corps of paid staff members to increase Catholic turnout. The campaign is pushing to break the traditional allegiance of Catholic voters to the Democratic Party, an affiliation that began to crumble with Ronald Reagan 24 years ago.

Catholics make up about a quarter of the electorate, and many conservative Catholics are concentrated in swing states, pollsters say. Conservatives organizers say they are working hard because the next president is quite likely to name at least one new Supreme Court justice.

[dropzone]

1. I solved that problem by converting. And blatant politicking like that by a bishop dances past the line between non-profit and for-profit organizations so the Mother Church should be more careful if she doesn't want to start paying property taxes.

2. Don't lump all us Protestants together! On my way into church a fellow was putting up a sign on our property advertising the Catholic church's rummage sale. I remarked that we have apparently gotten over those difficulties in the 16th and 17th centuries. Or, for that matter, from when he and I were kids.

3. God, I hope not!