I got this spam from a friend; I’m a Kerry supporter but find it just too tidy to believe. Is it accurate or a load of you know what? (um if this is the wrong forum I humbly ask a mod to move this thread).
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 8:22 PM
Subject: military service of key Democrats and Republicans
Do You See A Pattern Here?
Democrats
Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71.
David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72.
Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72.
Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan. 1971 as an army
journalist in 20th Engineer Brigade.
Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam.
Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-47; Medal of Honor, WWII.
John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V,
Purple Hearts.
Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea.
Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star, Vietnam.
Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-53.
Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74.
Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91.
Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII; Bronze Star and seven campaign
ribbons.
Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam, DFCs, Bronze Stars, and
Soldier’s Medal.
Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple Heart, Silver Star and
Legion of Merit.
Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne, Purple Heart.
Bill McBride: Candidate for Fla. Governor. Marine in Vietnam; Bronze Star
with Combat V.
Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star.
Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57
Chuck Robb: Vietnam
Howell Heflin: Silver Star
George McGovern: Silver Star & DFC during WWII.
Bill Clinton: Did not serve. Student deferments. Entered draft but
received #311.
Jimmy Carter: Seven years in the Navy.
Walter Mondale: Army 1951-1953
John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs and Air Medal with 18 Clusters.
Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII. Saved by Raoul
Wallenberg.
Republicans
Dick Cheney: did not serve. Several deferments, the last by marriage.
Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
Tom Delay: did not serve.
Roy Blunt: did not serve.
Bill Frist: did not serve.
Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
Rick Santorum: did not serve.
Trent Lott: did not serve.
John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to teach business.
Jeb Bush: did not serve.
Karl Rove: did not serve.
Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. “Bad knee.” The man who attacked Max
Cleland’s patriotism.
Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
Vin Weber: did not serve.
Richard Perle: did not serve.
Douglas Feith: did not serve.
Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
Richard Shelby: did not serve.
Jon! Kyl: did not serve.
Tim Hutchison: did not serve.
Christopher Cox: did not serve.
Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as flight instructor.
George W. Bush: failed to complete his six-year National Guard; got
assigned to Alabama so he could campaign for family friend running for U.S.
Senate; failed to show up for required medical exam, disappeared from duty.
Ronald Reagan: due to poor eyesight, served in a non-combat role making
movies.
B-1 Bob Dornan: Consciously enlisted after fighting was over in Korea.
Phil Gramm: did not serve.
John McCain: Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and
Distinguished Flying Cross.
Dana Rohrabacher: did not serve.
John M. McHugh: did not serve.
JC Watts: did not serve.
Jack Kemp: did not serve. “Knee problem,” although continued in NFL for 8
years.
Dan Quayle: Journalism unit of the Indiana National Guard.
Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
George Pataki: did not serve.
Spencer Abraham: did not serve.
John Engler: did not serve.
Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer.
Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army base.
Pundits & Preachers
Sean Hannity: did not serve.
Rush Limbaugh: did not serve (4-F with a ‘pilonidal cyst.’)
Bill O’Reilly: did not serve.
Michael Savage: did not serve.
George Will: did not serve.
Chris Matthews: did not serve.
Paul Gigot: did not serve.
Bill Bennett: did not serve.
Pat Buchanan: did not serve.
John Wayne: did not serve.
Bill Kristol: did not serve.
Kenneth Starr: did not serve.
Antonin Scalia: did not serve.
Clarence Thomas: did not serve.
Ralph Reed: did not serve.
Michael Medved: did not serve.
Charlie Daniels: did not serve.
Ted Nugent: did not serve. (He only shoots at things that don’t shoot
back.)
What does “Chuck Robb - Vietnam” mean? It’s clearly a sloppily made list. It’s also missing Bob Dole. It’s also got alist of right-wing pundits, but not left-wing ones.
That said, it’s true that the current war hawks largely skipped service when they had a chance. And, every person who is on the list that I know about is listed accurately.
Tom Ridge: Army staff sergeant, Vietnam. Bronze Star (with V device) awardee.
Mr. Moto: U.S. Navy 1993-1998
Cherrypicking veterans on either side will not provide an accurate picture. And that’s why I avoid this kind of poisonous rhetoric altogether. There is nothing preventing someone from entering public life if they’re not a veteran, nor should there be.
Actually, the senior Bush was in the Navy, the youngest naval combat flier of his day. He never won a Silver Star, but does hold the Distinguished Flying Cross.
Isn’t that a euphemism for “he lied about his age to sign up”? Yes, I know that was practically required back then.
[quote=Cherrypicking veterans on either side will not provide an accurate picture.[/quote]
How about just listing the key decisionmakers and officeholders, then? They’re all on the OP list; go right ahead. Unfortunately, that leaves out the retired Bush 1 and Dole.
They left off Tom Ridge as well. Isn’t he a key decisionmaker, especially now?
Likewise Colin Powell. I’m assuming that the former JCOS chairman’s veteran’s status isn’t in question.
The list cherrypicked badly. Why should we place any stock in it with these glaring flaws? And why should we debate these points in the first place? Did Clinton give up the right to be president when he avoidsed the draft?
Of course he didn’t. This exercise is quite silly.
Well that’s not the point, is it? The point is that all the GOP decisionmakers, most of whom avoided service, are perfectly content to let our boys go off and die, while at the same time decrying those who disagree with the “reasons” for the war (I use the term loosely) as failing to “support the troops,” whatever that means. This despite the fact that the hawks overwhelmingly (though not unanimously) never wore a uniform and their targets frequently did.
Well, Mr. Moto, you can either keep griping, or you can provide your own list that you would consider fair(er).
But that still isn’t the point - all of those who decided to start this war, and most of those who most vociferously supported it in both the government and the media, have no personal experience with war and its costs. Powell, since you mention him, was strongly opposed, and Ridge wasn’t really a participant.
It would be a great research project for someone to check all male Congressmen and Senators and compile stats for service vs. none. The OP’s list may have a little bit of errata and probably leaves out some people for the sake of effect, but it is quite telling. Max Cleland should probably be moved to the Republican column, though. It sure is funny how many hawks are those that did not see combat while many doves did.
We need a more random sampling of Repubs and Demos, so we’ll use the current congress. According to this breakdown of the 108th congress, Repubs account for 70% of the members with military service while they make up 52% of the total membership.
In short, the idea that repubs led us into a war while the shirked from military service themselves is false, at least so far as the congress is concerned.
This makes sense to me as red states tend to be ones with more of a military heritage than blue states. Also women are over represented in the Democratic delegation, but are less likely to have served and were ineligable for the draft.
The administration would be harder to analyse like this, but I think you’re right that the top folks don’t have a lot of military experience. Of course, I don’t remember that the Clinton admin was particularly medal studed. I suppose if someone wants to they could compare the cabinets and top officials of both presidents.
I think it’s also worthy of note that as we move further away in time from the major wars of the 20th century, fewer and fewer of the populace will have had military experience, and so I think will see more and more administrations dominated by men with no combat or any other sort of military experince. For example, before Clinton, I think FDR was the last president without any military background (and he had polio during WWI).
Um. No. Bush was 18 when he entered the service, which was old enough to enlist. Those who lied about their age were under 18.
Sure. That also takes out David Bonior, Bob Kerrey, Daniel Inouye, Max Cleland, Tom Harkin, Jack Reed, Fritz Hollings, Leonard Boswell, Pete Peterson, Mike Thompson, Bill McBride, Gray Davis, Pete Stark, Chuck Robb, Howell Heflin, George McGovern, Jimmy Carter, Walter Mondale, John Glenn and Tom Lantos from the current Democratic list.
Depends upon what you mean by ‘military background’; FDR served as Assistant Secretary of the Navy during World War I. (And would not be struck down by polio until the 1920’s; he was able-bodied and walked while running for Vice-President in 1920.) Herbert Hoover had no real military experience, unless you count running the American Relief Administration during World War I and feeding the starving millions, or living in China and coming under fire during the Boxer Rebellion. And I’m sure someone will be around shortly to describe Reagan’s war experiences as without merit; Lyndon Johnson’s are also just as dubious.
Secretary of the Navy is a civilian post, but I see your point. Your right about the polio though, it was after WWI.
Both Reagan and LBJ undeniably served in the military, and both during war time at that. LBJ probably doesn’t deserve his Silver Star, and Regan just made movies, but that doesn’t really change my thesis that military service was almost a given for a president durting the latter half of this last century.