Webster's Dictionary?

DWMarch · #1 10-30-2004, 02:55 AM

I've always been under the impression that a Webster's Dictionary was one from the Merriam-Webster company and that their name brand was trademarked somehow. But then I noticed a cheap knock-off dictionary. It was by some little company I'd never heard of but it was labeled "Webster's Dictionary." I thought okay, clever marketing ploy... It's the dictionary of Webster (since you can't copyright someone's name) and fools who buy it thinking they're getting a Merriam-Webster dictionary for a great price are just fools, since it's very obviously not from M-W. But today I see another dictionary (not a cheap knockoff) and it's a Random House Webster's Dictionary. Random House is a big company and would presumably not engage in deceptive marketing. So what's the dope on Webster and dictionaries?

friedo · #2 10-30-2004, 04:04 AM

Webster was just, like, this guy, you know?

Noah Webster published his first dictionary with his new-fangled spellings of things around 1800. Since then, pretty much anyone who has published a dictionary containing American-style spellings has called it Webster's.

Garfield226 · #3 10-30-2004, 04:29 AM

Are you sure you can't copyright a name? I mean, McDonald is a name. There's this old guy named that...I hear he has a farm of some sort.

Disney is a name. Ford is a name. DeLorean is a name. Etc. I think the term is "trademark" anyhow, but are you sure you can't trademark a name? I don't think I could change my name to Disney and start making pornographic cartoons.

Aeschines · #4 10-30-2004, 07:16 AM

AAIK, friedo is on the right track and no one owns the name "Webster" as a trademark. "Merriam-Webster" sounds like a trademark, but not just "Webster."

He was, as friedo said, the famous Americanlexicographer.

A similar situation is [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roget%27s_Thesaurus]"Roget's Thesaurus."[/quote] The original Roget's thesaurus is now in the public domain, and AFAICT the name "Roget's" is not a trademark any more.

Polycarp · #5 10-30-2004, 07:52 AM

Noah Webster compiled "A Dictionary of the American Language" in the early 1800s. It and successive editions came to be regarded as the definitive dictionaries of American English.

After his copyright (if he ever got one, which I believe he did) expired, calling one's publication "Webster's Dictionary" was akin to terming one's book "The Official Guide to...." when the only thing official about it is the second word of the title -- it added cachet but meant nothing substantive.

The G. & C. Merriam Co. bought the rights to the Webster publications, and continues to put out one of the most authoritative American dictionaries. Lexicographers Thorndyke and Barnhart brought out a scholastic-level dictionary that has over the last 60 years gained some authoritative status. Publishers Random House in the 1960s compiled and brought out unabridged and abridged dictionaries of near equal repute with the Merriam-Webster franchise. And World Publishing of Cleveland OH had a series of "New World Dictionaries" that were regarded as reputable, if with not quite the clout of the M-W and RH publications.

The OED, of course, continues to be the authority across the English-speaking world, but with the leading American dictionaries in reputation, AFAIK, being the products of the four firms above.

daffyduck · #6 10-30-2004, 08:51 AM

The Merriam-Webster website addresses this question.

Are all Webster's dictionaries alike?
No. After Noah Webster's death in 1843 and throughout the 19th century, Merriam-Webster produced the finest American dictionaries, building the reputation of the name "Webster's" to a point where it became a byword for quality dictionaries. But in the late 1800s and early 1900s, legal difficulties concerning the copyright and trademark of the name Webster arose, and eventually many different publishers—some rather unscrupulous—began putting dictionaries on the market under the Webster's name.

yabob · #7 10-30-2004, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Since then, pretty much anyone who has published a dictionary containing American-style spellings has called it Webster's.

Quote:

The G. & C. Merriam Co. bought the rights to the Webster publications, and continues to put out one of the most authoritative American dictionaries. Lexicographers Thorndyke and Barnhart brought out a scholastic-level dictionary that has over the last 60 years gained some authoritative status. Publishers Random House in the 1960s compiled and brought out unabridged and abridged dictionaries of near equal repute with the Merriam-Webster franchise. And World Publishing of Cleveland OH had a series of "New World Dictionaries" that were regarded as reputable, if with not quite the clout of the M-W and RH publications.

I thought the AHD was reputable. It's not named "Webster's", and it's published by Houghton-Mifflin, so it doesn't seem to be a member of Polycarp's list.

Polycarp · #8 10-30-2004, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yabob

I thought the AHD was reputable. It's not named "Webster's", and it's published by Houghton-Mifflin, so it doesn't seem to be a member of Polycarp's list.

It ought to have been. Good catch; thanks!

(American Heritage Dictionary, for those who don't do TLAs well.)

yabob · #9 10-30-2004, 10:20 AM

Good. I would hate to think that I customarily used a dictionary of ill repute. I did discover that it's a comparitive upstart - first published in 1969 in response to criticisms of Webster's Third, published in 1961.

Excalibre · #10 10-30-2004, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yabob

Good. I would hate to think that I customarily used a dictionary of ill repute. I did discover that it's a comparitive upstart - first published in 1969 in response to criticisms of Webster's Third, published in 1961.

New, maybe, but its usage notes are second to none, which is why I use it.