Wait till I get my big groping hands on your soft little breasts!

[astro]

Why are women complianing so much? It's for national safety! These little princesses and big babies need to suck it up!


Many Women Say Airport Pat-Downs Are a Humiliation

But the Transportation Security Administration in the United States, already worried that metal detectors could not pick up nonmetallic explosives, issued new regulations requiring airport screeners to conduct more frequent and more intense secondary searches and pat-downs.

The agency, part of the Department of Homeland Security, declined to break down the percentage of searches conducted by gender, but a spokeswoman said it did not treat women differently from men under the policy. While some men have complained about the groping nature of the searches, women object the most. Several women interviewed said that male colleagues had scoffed at their complaints, saying that a physical pat-down was a small price to pay for security.

"I laugh when men tell me that," said Betty Spence, president of the National Association for Female Executives, who says she has been selected for pat-downs several times in the last month on trips from New York to Chicago, Washington and Miami on various airlines. "Men don't know how offensive it is to be touched by anyone when you don't want to be touched."

She said she had switched to driving whenever she could.

Amy Von Walter, a spokeswoman for the Transportation Security Administration, said: "The pat-downs were put in place to address T.S.A.'s abilities to detect explosives at the checkpoint. That was a key recommendation by the 9/11 Commission."

With such a new procedure, she said, the agency expected complaints. So far, it has received about 250, with the numbers trending downward in recent weeks, she said.

None of the complaints have been resolved so far nor have any penalties been imposed

[Czarcasm]

Moving thread from IMHO to MPSIMS.

[Ethilrist]

She said she had switched to driving whenever she could.

Just how short of a plane flight was this lady taking on a regular basis? If it's short enough to drive, fer christ's sake, why subject yourself to the sheer time insanity of flying, let alone the possible body cavity search?

I do wonder, however, how many people they have found smuggling stuff in their brassieres.

[Ruby]

... trips from New York to Chicago, Washington and Miami

We can assume that she's not driving any of these routes.

How is it different for a woman to have her breasts touched from a man having his manparts touched? Or is it that women just complain more?

[Ethilrist]

Well, if it's guys doing the touching of women, that's probably a big turnoff right there. Also, from what I've heard, the amount of fondling a woman's breasts can take before it gets painful is considerably less than the amount a man's parts can take, popular press & body humor jokes notwithstanding.

But the lady wasn't talking about it being painful, but humiliating. I'm reminded of a thread by BottledBlondeJeannie on how often she got tagged for the body search...

[betenoir]

Originally Posted by Ethilrist

I do wonder, however, how many people they have found smuggling stuff in their brassieres.

I don't know. But if these people protest and actually get breasts placed out of bounds for searching, I know where a lot of stuff will be smuggled in the future.

[LordVor]

Originally Posted by betenoir

I don't know. But if these people protest and actually get breasts placed out of bounds for searching, I know where a lot of stuff will be smuggled in the future.

Their asshole? Or do you propose we start probing those as well?

-lv

[Ilsa_Lund]

Originally Posted by LordVor

Their asshole? Or do you propose we start probing those as well?

-lv

Is this a joke? (Not trying to be a jerk, just didn't know if your humor was too dry for me.) He means that if breasts are off limits to searchers, people will start smuggling things in their bra's.

[Ilsa_Lund]

Should that apostrophe be there?

[Cinnamon Girl]

Originally Posted by Ilsa_Lund

Is this a joke? (Not trying to be a jerk, just didn't know if your humor was too dry for me.) He means that if breasts are off limits to searchers, people will start smuggling things in their bra's.

Yes, but where do you draw the line? If it's okay to grope a woman's breast with no reason to suspect that she's smuggling something, isn't it just as okay to do a cavity search? Of course, I see there's a line, but for some people it may be drawn before breast grabbing rather than before asshole poking.

[Tikki]

Yup, you could hide a lot under mine.


I say let them pat me down. They have a job to do. Besides, when you're patting down a couple thousand people a day, I doubt that you're getting your jollies from it anymore.

[Iceland_Blue]

Not wishing to be obvious....

'OK Mrs X. you're unhappy at being patted down by a male, just wait a few moments and we'll get a female to do it.'

[jjimm]

Originally Posted by Ilsa_Lund

Should that apostrophe be there?

No.

[NutMagnet]

I thought it was already the procedure that females pat down females and males do males. I also understood that this is done with the back of the hand and that rubber gloves are worn.

From here:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=25974

Here's what screeners cannot do:


Run the hand wand closer than 1 inch from your body.

Rub the wand on your body or insert it into your clothing.

Pat you down if you request a screener of the same sex – and that person is available.

Pat down the breast area of females (if necessary) if the screener is male.

Physically inspect your hair if it's not long (and able to conceal a weapon).

Touch your neck, shoulders, ankles and feet with a clutched hand (it must be open).

Touch the rest of your body, such as the waist, with the palm of their hand (they must use the back of their hand).

Inspect your belt area with their fingers (they must use their thumbs, placing them between the belt and the pants, and circling the waist).

Run their fingers inside your shirt or down your socks.

Open your pants or ask you to remove them.

Ask you to take off your shirt or socks.

Ask you to remove your belt (even if it's a money belt).

Ask you to remove your shoes before entering the metal detector.

Lose possession of anything you remove from your body during the screening.

Screen you out of view of your x-rayed belongings (unless you request screening take place at a private location).

[Zebra]

Female passengers are patted by female workers.

The 'up the ass' response is trying to point out that this pat down doesn't cover that area and a 'plastic' explosive could be smuggled there. Are we also going to have cavity searches?


Many people say; "Oh do it! It makes us safer! It is for security!", to which I ask, where would you draw the line?

What wouldn't you allow 'for security'?

This increase in breast pat downs is in response to the Russian planes that were brought down. Now they think that two women smuggled the explosives on to the planes but we don't know the method. We don't know that they stuffed their bras with C4 and got on that way.

Just like we now have to remove our shoes thanks to the shoe bomber guy. (jerk!)

If some terrorist uses a child to smuggle a bomb on a plane, would you have them do a cavity search on your child as you fly down to Disney World? Where would you draw the line?

[The Great Sun Jester]

Y'know, this whole pat down thing is malarkey. The only folks they're going to catch are the occaisional nutjobs who haven't thought their plans out very well, and I doubt the per passenger incidence of that kind of horseplay is significantly higher than it was in the '70s.

During the Gulf War, it was not unheard of for POWs to slide strips of metal not unlike sharpened knitting needles just under the skin of their forearms...and then surrender with some heroic escape plan in mind involving the use of the improvised weapon. With that kind of determination and cunning in a bombarded and starving grunt soldier--elite or otherwise--how likely do you think it is that one of Bin Laden's mentally prepared and thoroughly dedicated minions is to pad a bra or jockstrap with a few ounces of plastique? Why risk mission failure when you can easily seal a pound or more of it in saran wrap, slice a small hole in your belly and insert the package with only a pair of wires (or some non-metallic conductor suitable for use with a 9-volt battery?) protruding and hidden by body hair? This can be done in a living room under local anasthesia considering infection is really not a concern. Or yes, a C-4 dildo? It won't take much--just enough to knock a fist-sized hole in a pressurized cabin moving 600 mph at 25,000 feet. Science can take over to finish off the plane.

If we're not going to commit to full body cavity searches and x-rays of EVERY passenger, we might as well not even bother at all. Says I.

[catsix]

So once the bra becomes out of fashion as a place to smuggle stuff because the screeners might find it, are we going to have to worry about the evil C4 Tampon Of Doom and have screeners standing there with a speculum to make sure nothing's crammed into any cavities?

[Optihut]

Thanks for the headsup. One more reason not to fly into US airports until the government cleans up their act. It would be nice, now that the terrorist card doesn't need to played in order to win an election, if the aimless panic would stop and such knee-jerk measures would be reduced.

[Glory]

Originally Posted by Optihut

Thanks for the headsup. One more reason not to fly into US airports until the government cleans up their act. It would be nice, now that the terrorist card doesn't need to played in order to win an election, if the aimless panic would stop and such knee-jerk measures would be reduced.

I don't think this is a US thing. The one time I did get my breasts patted down while traveling I was in the Amsterdam airport en route to Dehli. My male colleague got his jimmy patted down pretty well, much to our amusement.

[Iceland_Blue]

I have appointed myself Security Guardian at British Dopefest, responsible for vetting female entries

[Optihut]

Originally Posted by Glory

I don't think this is a US thing. The one time I did get my breasts patted down while traveling I was in the Amsterdam airport en route to Dehli. My male colleague got his jimmy patted down pretty well, much to our amusement.

Wow, when was that? I was never patted down, the security people always used one of those O-shaped detectors instead. I didn't have to take off my shoes either before the flight from Europe to Canada, but a lot of the security people asked me to open my backpack, because my batterypack looked suspicious.

Since the shoe thing seems to be a US exclusive surprise, I assumed that patting down people would be confined to the states as well (especially since I haven't encountered it elsewhere).

[anu-la1979]

Females are supposed to pat down female travellers but I have been in situations where the lines were absolutely endless and I really needed to get on my flight and male security workers have asked my permission to do the patdown so that I could board.

I can't say I was really groped but I was none too pleased.

[LordVor]

Originally Posted by Ilsa_Lund

Is this a joke? (Not trying to be a jerk, just didn't know if your humor was too dry for me.) He means that if breasts are off limits to searchers, people will start smuggling things in their bra's.

As others have figured, I was pointing out that it's just as easy to smuggle something in up your ass as it is to smuggle it in under the breasts. Easier, if you don't happen to have breasts. Which leaves you with two choices for the "complete safety" that some people seem to be so willing to give up their personal liberties to get: Full-body cavity searches for every passenger, or develop non-invasive methods of detecting substances wherever they may be hidden on (or in) the body.

Anything in between, like breast and crotch pat-downs, is an annoyance that isn't going to stop anyone who's done an ounch of planning. IIRC, people who've done their planning don't tend to take what they need through security at all, historically they've bribed someone who works at the airport/airline to plant what they need on the other side of the security gate.

-lv

[duffer]

My wife and I have never had more done than walk through the metal detector.Maybe we're just lucky.

The reason I came into this thread, though, is I thought the thread title was about Thanksgiving turkey.

[professor folk]

one mundane pointless thing I'll mention here is that, ever since the shoe bomber guy, I have to remove my shoes EVERY TIME. The strange thing I always wonder is, am I marked because my father has the same exact name as the shoe bomber guy?

[picunurse]

We did this in the pit last month.

[trupa]

Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya

It won't take much--just enough to knock a fist-sized hole in a pressurized cabin moving 600 mph at 25,000 feet. Science can take over to finish off the plane.

This is a very common misconception, which I also held for a long time. Actually, a fist sized hole at cruising altitude & airspeed would probably cause a moderately gradual decompression. The compressors in a contemporary jumbo are able to keep up with a leak the size of bullet hole in a window, which would not result in a very rapid decompression at all, if any. The pilots would release the oxygen masks and do a rapid descent to about 10 000 feet or so, and look for a conveniently near airport.

As reference, I cite the Mytbusters episode on the topic, and the 747 near Hawai that lost a patch of ceiling/roof the whole width of the airplane and several rows long, and made an emergency landing just fine. The only loss was a stewardess who had been standing under the hole and a few passengers with their belts undone right below the hole.

Any aeronautical people care to contribute?

[The Great Sun Jester]

Originally Posted by trupa

Actually, a fist sized hole at cruising altitude & airspeed would probably cause a moderately gradual decompression. The compressors in a contemporary jumbo are able to keep up with a leak the size of bullet hole in a window, which would not result in a very rapid decompression at all, if any.

God point, and embarassingly reasonable when you put it that way. Still...a C4 tampon of doom, maybe two, I'm guessing would be sufficient to take down a big ol' jet airliner if disposed of properly. But maybe I'm overestimating the pop in the 'pon.

[Tristan]

I'm always blown away by these sorts of complaints.

That, and folks complaining about the huge delays.

If you've paid any attention at ALL to the world at large, you are aware of these things, and can plan accordingly.

I haven't flown since the beginning of 2001, but I know that if I'm helping a friend make a flight I make sure we're there at least an hour before hand.....

[Annie]

Originally Posted by NutMagnet

I thought it was already the procedure that females pat down females and males do males. I also understood that this is done with the back of the hand and that rubber gloves are worn.

From here:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=25974

Re: can't ask you to remove your shoes b/f the metal detector: TSA dude, at the domestic terminal security line, Nov. 23, SFO: "Now folks, I can't ask you to take off your shoes before going through the metal detector but I strongly recommend that you do."

Me, a hundred others: start bouncing around on one foot attempting to de-shod ourselves. FYI: hair barettes set off the metal detectors.

I live in Canada; I think I will refrain from American travel for the duration. It's not the security checks that bother me so much as my lack of legal protection as a foreign citizen. It's a hard call, but if I have to surrender access to quality Memphis BBQ to maintain access to due process, the ribs will have to wait.

[Moirai]

More than that, Annie- we were told at several airports that if we didn't "choose" to remove our shoes, we would automatically be selected for patdown!

Tristan, these measures are useless and a waste of everybody's time. If I thought for one minute that it was increasing security when I fly, then I wouldn't compalin. But I don't think it is.

I posted this in the Patti LuPone thread- while 6 months pregnant (12/01), I was thoroughly searched around my midsection, then asked by the screener if I was wearing a belt! I asked her, "Did you FIND a belt?!?" Dumbass.

[Annie]

Originally Posted by EJsGirl

More than that, Annie- we were told at several airports that if we didn't "choose" to remove our shoes, we would automatically be selected for patdown!

The implicit 'failure to cooperate indicates guilt' subtext,: fifth amendment issue, si?

I really didn't mind taking off my shoes; I'd been flying 20 hrs and my wee doggies appreciated a bit of ventilation. Now, multiply that foot stink by 120 other flyers though.....

[Ethilrist]

Originally Posted by Annie

I live in Canada; I think I will refrain from American travel for the duration.

Dude, it's been three years. People are just starting to whine about this. How long do you expect this "duration" to be?

[Annie]

Originally Posted by Ethilrist

Dude, it's been three years. People are just starting to whine about this. How long do you expect this "duration" to be?

It can be a hundred years, I don't care. I can function in life quite nicely without having to enter the US.

Really, the airport security seems no more onerous than in other countries. My personal line in the sand is that as a non-American I can be denied protection of law; see http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/arar/ . Fukkit, if I want to fly to Europe or Asia I'll pay the extra $500 for a semi direct flight. It's your country, do what you like, but I don't have to play along.

[infamousmom]

On the bright side, maybe my 75-year-old mother will get so pissed at being patted down that she'll NEVER fly out here to visit us again.

[infamousmom]

Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya

It won't take much--just enough to knock a fist-sized hole in a pressurized cabin moving 600 mph at 25,000 feet. Science can take over to finish off the plane.

Spoken like a guy who doesn't watch "MythBusters." Or who's watched "Goldfinger" way too many times. Sorry dude, it just doesn't work that way.

[The Great Sun Jester]

Originally Posted by infamousmom

Spoken like a guy who doesn't watch "MythBusters." Or who's watched "Goldfinger" way too many times. Sorry dude, it just doesn't work that way.

Hey now! I recanted a couple posts later! Besides, I killed my TV a couple years ago. I'm down to the DVD/VCR now (well...they are hooked up to a TV, but that's the only signal it gets).

[danceswithcats]

With all the TSA complaint threads, I had a moment of inspiration (with apologies to Devo)

Crack that whip
Hand me that nail clip
Spread your crack
Break the terrorist’s back

When a person comes along
We will frisk it
Don’t try sneak your boobies on
We will frisk it
When something’ feeling wrong
We will frisk it

Now frisk it
into shape
hands up
shoes off
bend over
move ahead
we will detect it
it’s not too late
to frisk it
frisk it good

When it’s time to travel round
We will frisk it
Would you pull your trousers down?
So we can frisk it
No one goes on their way
Until we frisk it

I say frisk it
Frisk it good

[Cartooniverse]

Having seen a firm thick underwire rip loose more than once from the underside of a bra, I can well imaging a female terrorist impaling flight attendants with one, therefore.....um.....

No wait. That's not right......

[The Great Sun Jester]

Originally Posted by danceswithcats

With all the TSA complaint threads, I had a moment of inspiration (with apologies to Devo)[/i]

Very nice. I'll be giggling all night long as I drink all the beer in Golden, CO tonight (Starting with Woody's AYCE Pizza!).









I'm so gonna be in a cab...

[Cosmopolitan]

I've always gotten pat-downs due to my inability to walk through metal detectors. It's never a pleasant experience, but the procedure's always been performed by female employees (I'm female as well) and they've always used the backs of their hands. Much more, I can't ask for.

[Tio Gringo]

Originally Posted by danceswithcats

With all the TSA complaint threads, I had a moment of inspiration (with apologies to Devo)

Crack that whip
[...]
Frisk it good

[comicbook guy]Funniest song ever.[/comicbook guy]

[Crandolph]

Originally Posted by Ruby

We can assume that she's not driving any of these routes.

NYC to DC is a completely drivable route; in non-rush hour times it probably takes less time to drive from one to the other than to get from Manhattan to downtown DC (or vice versa) than to get to one of the airports from same, check in, get through security, actually fly, get your baggage, get into central DC or NY...

A lot of people just take the Metroliner or Acela. That's even easier and faster than driving, although a bit expensive.

[Baldwin]

We're hoping to visit England next year, and the one thing I dread is the useless moronic airport "security". I hope nothing happens that ends up with me in prison, because I'm not sure how much of that shit I can force myself to submit to.

Repeatedly, undercover agents testing the system have no trouble getting onboard airliners with guns and bombs. All we've done is inconvenience and humiliate millions of ordinary citizens on a daily basis.