Ken Jennings dethroned!

[Musicat]

Finally, it happened. Today, Tuesday, November 30, 2004, Ken made some bad bets and gave the wrong answer to the final and critical clue on Jeopardy. He will not be coming back for the next show.

Maybe he'll keep his day job after all.

I'll get and post some details from the tape, but I thought I'd start this thread first. What a shock!

[Terminus Est]

Good job giving away spoilers in the thread title.

[Biggirl]

[quote=Musicat]
Maybe he'll keep his day job after all.

[quote]

He won a little over 2.5 million. He doesn't have to keep his day job if he really doesn't want to.

[ivylass]

We're over here, guys.

[Musicat]

Originally Posted by Terminus Est

Good job giving away spoilers in the thread title.

It would be a little difficult to start a thread otherwise, eh? What should I title it, "Ken Jennings does something"?

Details:

Going in to this show, Ken's 74th, he had $2,520,700. He was faced with David Hawkins and Nancy Zerg. With a negative total, David was eliminated before Final J.

Going into Final J, Ken's total was 14,400 and Nancy's 10,000. The Final Jeopardy clue in the category "Business and Industry" was: "Most of this firm's 70,000 seasonal white collar employees work only 4 months a year."

Nancy's answer:

SPOILER:

What is H & R Block?

Ken's answer:

SPOILER:

What is FedEx?

Nancy bet 4401 (although 1 dollar would have worked) and Ken bet 5601. The final dollar total was then 14,401 for Nancy and 8,700 for Ken. Ken then leaves the entire game with $2,529,400.

[Musicat]

Originally Posted by Biggirl

He doesn't have to keep his day job if he really doesn't want to.

Actually, that question came up in the interview. He said he would keep it anyway (assuming he didn't lose, I guess) since he "liked the people he worked with."

[Terminus Est]

Originally Posted by Musicat

It would be a little difficult to start a thread otherwise, eh? What should I title it, "Ken Jennings does something"?

Sorry if my post came off a bit too snarky. Maybe you could ask a passing mod to retitle this to something like "Somebody lost!"

[BobLibDem]

They Killed Kenny!

[Reeder]

Should I say how long Nancy lasts?

And yes I do know.

Nah.

Let's just say she doesn't give Ken's record a run at all.

[Musicat]

Terminus Est: I assumed that the show had aired everywhere by the time I saw it, as I tape-delay the local 3:30PM show until dinner time for myself. But now that I think about it, the west coast might not have seen it; I know some left coast stations air Jeopardy in prime time instead of the afternoon. And there has been a thread with the revealing info going around here since yesterday, so I doubt if Ken's defeat is much of a mystery anymore. Nevertheless, the details are still hidden in spoilers.

Anyway, Nancy's hot. At least compared to Ken.

[Gamaliel]

Originally Posted by Musicat

It would be a little difficult to start a thread otherwise, eh? What should I title it, "Ken Jennings does something"? .

How about "Tonight's Episode of Jeopardy"?

[Reeder]

Cut him some slack. It's been all over the net, the news and radio stations all day.

[Zebra]

Who is the Nance Zerg?


She'll the question to a trivia answer soon.

[Musicat]

Originally Posted by Gamaliel

How about "Tonight's Episode of Jeopardy"?

It would be kinda hard to discuss tonight's episode unless we put every post in spoilers, wouldn't it? Anyhoo...it's a moot point. Someone spilled the beans yesterday in another thread.

[Scarlett67]

Loved everybody's reaction: her hands to her face as she realized that she'd beaten him, the big gasp from the audience, and Ken giving her a big hug and congratulating her. He's a class act.

I heard he's going to be on Letterman tonight.

[gobear]

The question he lost was so easy that I would not be surprised to find that he took a dive.

[Garfield226]

Originally Posted by Musicat

Going in to this show, Ken's 74th, he had $2,520,700. He was faced with David Hawkins and Nancy Zerg. With a negative total, David was eliminated before Final J.

According to Wikipedia, this was Ken's 75th show (he won 74). Also according to Wikipedia, this was the only record he did not break. Ian Lygo appeared on, and won, 75 consecutive episodes of the British game show "100%" in 1998. He does have the record for consecutive syndicated game show appearances and wins (previously held by Thom McKee, of Tic Tac Dough fame).

Going into Final J, Ken's total was 14,400 and Nancy's 10,000.
{snip}
Nancy bet 4401 (although 1 dollar would have worked) and Ken bet 5601. The final dollar total was then 14,401 for Nancy and 8,700 for Ken. Ken then leaves the entire game with $2,529,400.

$14,400
- 5,601
$ 8,799

Also, Wikipedia says that he ended with a total of $2,522,700, since the second place contestant only wins $2,000 regardless of their actual total at the end of the game.

Wikipedia's Ken Jennings Page

[Musicat]

And he didn't bet enough to win if Nancy had bet all of hers. I think Ken was just caught in a bad-hair day, and made the best of it.

Thanks for correcting my math, Garfield226. I scribbled the notes on a napkin where zeros look a lot like 9's, and vice-versa.

[Garfield226]

Originally Posted by Musicat

And he didn't bet enough to win if Nancy had bet all of hers. I think Ken was just caught in a bad-hair day, and made the best of it.

  Ken             Nancy
$14,400          $10,000
+ 5,601          +10,000
$20,001          $20,000

Just ain't your day for the math there, is it?

[RikWriter]

Originally Posted by Musicat

Actually, that question came up in the interview. He said he would keep it anyway (assuming he didn't lose, I guess) since he "liked the people he worked with."

He changed his mind. It was reported on the radio yesterday that he had quit his job.

[middleman]

I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but the fact that someone had the information in a different thread (it did have a spoiler when I checked it) doesn't justify further spoiling.

I accept that you meant no harm and I mean no offense. But there is no need for rationalizations.

It was a spoiler regardless of where else the information is available.

[Brynda]

Originally Posted by Musicat

It would be kinda hard to discuss tonight's episode unless we put every post in spoilers, wouldn't it? Anyhoo...it's a moot point. Someone spilled the beans yesterday in another thread.

Not in the friggin' title.

Sheesh.

[Odinoneeye]

I got the feeling he threw the game too.

He didn't seem too enthused and didn't seem too disappointed when he lost.

[DooWahDiddy]

Originally Posted by Odinoneeye

I got the feeling he threw the game too.

He didn't seem too enthused and didn't seem too disappointed when he lost.

Why would he be disappointed? All things must come to an end, and he walked away 2 and a half million dollars richer...

[RickJay]

Originally Posted by Musicat

Actually, that question came up in the interview. He said he would keep it anyway (assuming he didn't lose, I guess) since he "liked the people he worked with."

Given that he has to pay tax on that money he's smart to keep his day job. A million and a half bucks can go pretty quick if you're not careful and you buy a big house and three cars. Pay off debt, let it gather interest for ten years, THEN retire.

[AuntiePam]

Any idea why Jennings is on Letterman tonight instead of Leno? I guess he's not obligated to NBC, but unless he's going to do all the talk shows, it seems weird that he'd do Letterman first.

I don't get the disgruntlement over the thread title. Pretty much any title with Jennings or Jeopardy in it is going to indicate something special happened today.

[Leaper]

I find myself unreasonably annoyed by suggestions that Ken threw the game. For one thing, I find that dishonorable, and I think a devout Mormon like Ken would find it so too. Secondly, I saw the episode, and it looked to me like he wrote down an answer at the last minute. I can easily see him blanking on the question, especially after being shaken by those two DD misses (which were much more significant than Final Jeopardy this game).

Besides, I do believe they have a mechanism for someone to retire pre-game. I think he would've done that first, if only to give someone in the contestant pool an extra chance. He strikes me as the type who'd do that for that reason.

[Antonius Block]

Originally Posted by AuntiePam

Any idea why Jennings is on Letterman tonight instead of Leno? I guess he's not obligated to NBC, but unless he's going to do all the talk shows, it seems weird that he'd do Letterman first.

Jeopardy! is a syndicated show, so appears on different networks in different markets. I'm assuming that it's on NBC in Iowa (hence your expectation of a Leno appearance), but here in the Bay Area it's on ABC. So there's not really a "natural" late night show that Ken would appear on. Perhaps CBS has a huge number of affiliates carrying Jeopardy!, or maybe Ken just likes Letterman.

[Gamaliel]

Jennings has said before that he had no interest in breaking records for the sake of breaking records. Considering that and his waning interest in the game, its not inconceivable that he decided to bail before breaking Ian Lygo's record. And I don't think there's anything dishonorable in that.

[Antonius Block]

Originally Posted by Leaper

I find myself unreasonably annoyed by suggestions that Ken threw the game.

I agree with you 100%, Leaper. Ken is way too ethical to do that. And sure he was composed when the end came; he's had 75 games to imagine what losing would feel like, and always knew going in that each game could be the last.

He just had a bad day. He started OK, led the whole gme (IIRC), but flubbed the Daily Doubles and FJ, and even Ken Jennings can't do that and expect to win against decent opposition. He was a class act, however, and I'll miss him.

If I were an ad executive for H & R Block, I would be planning a series of humorous commercials starring KJ...

[Smeghead]

Originally Posted by Antonius Block

If I were an ad executive for H & R Block, I would be planning a series of humorous commercials starring KJ...

H&R has already capitalized by offering Ken free tax preparation for life.

[Saint Sparky]

Originally Posted by Smeghead

H&R has already capitalized by offering Ken free tax preparation for life.

He better take them up on their offer! Utah has some pretty regressive taxes he'd want to avoid!

[Liberal]

I don't think he threw the game in a calculating sense, but I do think his heart wasn't in it, and he no longer cared. Once you have a million and a half dollars (I figure government will take $950,000 or so), you might feel like going out and enjoying some of it.

[Agrippina]

Originally Posted by RickJay

Given that he has to pay tax on that money he's smart to keep his day job. A million and a half bucks can go pretty quick if you're not careful and you buy a big house and three cars. Pay off debt, let it gather interest for ten years, THEN retire.

Not quite so fast. According to this, Ken plans on writing a book. If that does well, maybe he can quit his day job.

[Mama Tiger]

Given that he has to pay tax on that money he's smart to keep his day job. A million and a half bucks can go pretty quick if you're not careful and you buy a big house and three cars. Pay off debt, let it gather interest for ten years, THEN retire.

If Ken is like some other devout Mormons I've known, he's really, really big into fiscal responsibility and not buying stuff he can't afford. In fact, I've known several devout Mormons who waited until they could buy a house for cash rather than even get a mortgage. I can easily see Ken being frighteningly responsible with his money.

But he definitely was a class act beginning to end. Even if the people who were defeated by him refer to themselves collectively as Roadkill, or so a friend of mine who's a Roadkill victim informs me!

[Jadis]

I'm sorry, but I also suspect KJ threw the game.

The way the question was phrased, even if you didn't know the answer on first reading, it should have been easy enough for a skilled player like KJ to figure out.

First clue: white collar workers. What's the most common white-collar worker? Accountant leaps to mind.

Second clue: seasonal work. What sort of seasonal work might an accountant do? Tax preparation.

Biggest tax preparation company? You might not get this one right (Jackson-Hewitt was the first thing that sprung to my mind), but H&R Block wasn't that tough to come up with.

FedEx is way out there, IMO.

Honestly, I think he was just tired of playing. Maybe his opt-out timing was based on the "not wanting to break any records" thing mentioned above, who knows?

[BobLibDem]

She played well but all the players really dropped the ball on that last category. She did make me rethink the strategy of betting for the second place player. Given that the leader can always bet enough to win if he gets the right answer, I believe the optimum strategy is to do like Nancy did and bet enough to pull $1 ahead of the leader. If he gets it right, he wins anyway. If he gets it wrong, he'll lose. Plus you might force him to bet enough so that if you both get it wrong, you win.

[don't ask]

I saw him on Letterman and he said that as soon as the category for Final Jeopardy was shown he thought, "uh oh" because it wasn't an area he is knowledgable in. He said that when his opponent immediately started writing an answer he thought, "She knows this. I'm in trouble here."

[AuntiePam]

Originally Posted by Antonius Block

Jeopardy! is a syndicated show, so appears on different networks in different markets. I'm assuming that it's on NBC in Iowa (hence your expectation of a Leno appearance), but here in the Bay Area it's on ABC. So there's not really a "natural" late night show that Ken would appear on. Perhaps CBS has a huge number of affiliates carrying Jeopardy!, or maybe Ken just likes Letterman.

Thanks -- I didn't know that.

[Musicat]

Originally Posted by Garfield226

  Ken             Nancy
$14,400          $10,000
+ 5,601          +10,000
$20,001          $20,000

Just ain't your day for the math there, is it?

What I meant was that Nancy didn't have to bet a single dollar to win this game in the end, since Ken's bet and wrong answer did him in.

For those that are getting on my case about spoiling the outcome, forget it. I just found out that my local CBS TV news announced it about the time I started the thread. If it's on TV in a major market, it's no secret. And if a Mod didn't object to an SDMB spoiler a friggin' day previous, I don't feel in the wrong in the slightest. Besides, I covered up the deep details with spoilers. It's the best I could do.

Back to Ken -- in my mind, I went thru about the same gyrations as Jadis. Seasonal -- sports? Nah, most stadium employees wouldn't be called white collar. Christmas? Fedex, UPS, USPS, how about L.L.Bean or Land's End? Again, probably not white collar, and I doubt if the increased employment season is as long as 4 months there -- probably only 2 or 3.

Then tax time --> H&R Block popped into my head and it seemed so right. White collar, and the season would begin pretty abruptly in January or December (especially if you include training time) and end abruptly not long after April 15. That sounds like a good 4-month period. I was surprised when Ken didn't get it; he thinks so logically, but I still find it hard to believe he threw the game.

[middleman]

Did anyone notice a little sideward glance Ken made at Nancy toward the end. I know it wasn't devious, but it reminded me of a kid trying to cheat off another kid's paper.

It was at the end and there was no way to see her screen.

It almost seemed instinctive. Like he was thinking "What did SHE put down?"

With that look, I figure there is no WAY he took a dive.

[Dewey Finn]

I believe he mentioned in an interview that he saw her out of the corner of his eye completing her answer quickly, but I can't find that quote now. I did find this one, though.

Originally Posted by Ken Jennings

"The woman next to me just knew it immediately,'' he said, describing his final final "Jeopardy!'' question. "I could hear her little light pen writing, and I thought, 'Oh my gosh, she knows this.' And I had no idea.''

I was amused that he didn't answer any of the questions in the Seinfeld category. I suspect he never watched the show.

[Strainger]

I'm also annoyed with the suggestions that he "threw the game". I have sensed a bit of burn-out recently, however (not just playing, but meeting family and job obligations in Utah at the same time). That and the fact that he missed both of his Daily Doubles in Double Jeopardy probably taxed him mentally once Final Jeopardy rolled around.

Oh, and H&R Block wasn't that freakin' easy to come up with (although I got it after a few seconds of thinking). There are other white collar positions besides accounting, after all.

Whew, now that he's out of the way, the Jeopardy people can go ahead and give me a call (I'm in the contestant pool this year).

[Musicat]

At least one prediction was right on:

Spoken by Brad Rutter, previous Jeopardy all-time champ:

So what would it take to dethrone Jennings?

“A strange combination of things,” says Rutter. “The categories would have to line up in an unfriendly manner towards him. That’s easier said than done.”

<snip>

Wednesday [in July] was the closest Jennings had to struggling with the questions. “He actually missed all three daily doubles," Rutter says. "He was betting big, too. That’s part of the game. If you bet big on a daily double, you can hurt yourself.”

Rutter notes, “It may take another one of those, plus a player who can beat him on the buzzer a few times. It will have to come down to somebody getting final Jeopardy right and Ken not getting it right.”

The ideal person to beat him would be, “somebody who can stay with him on buzzer speed and has a similar broad base of knowledge. And a little luck, too. That’s what it will take,” Rutter says.

(Italics mine.)

[Bleaker]

In discussions about Jeopardy and other game shows over the years, I find that people who know the answer to a question usually think the question is easy, regardless of its actual difficulty.

Originally Posted by Jadis

The way the question was phrased, even if you didn't know the answer on first reading, it should have been easy enough for a skilled player like KJ to figure out.

First clue: white collar workers. What's the most common white-collar worker? Accountant leaps to mind.

Second clue: seasonal work. What sort of seasonal work might an accountant do? Tax preparation.

Biggest tax preparation company? You might not get this one right (Jackson-Hewitt was the first thing that sprung to my mind), but H&R Block wasn't that tough to come up with.

FedEx is way out there, IMO.

It's easy to come up with a line of reasoning, find out it's the correct answer, then say this is the only logical way to go. But what about...

First clue: seasonal work. What's the busiest time of year? The holidays.

Second clue: firm with 70,000 employees. What line of business has a single company that busy during the holidays? Shipping. Popular shipping company? UPS or FedEx.

Oops, it says white-collar workers... Then maybe--Crap, a few seconds left! Better just write FedEx.

[RickJay]

I'm a pretty smart guy, but in Jennings' position I very likely would have guessed UPS or Fedex, or a major retailing chain like Wal-Mart. The seasonal aspect of the question threw me. H&R Block is an obvious answer if you're leaning that way but

1. I am familiar with the courier and carrier businesses so they'd be the first to pop into my head,

2. I would have thought of Christmas as the seasonal marker, not tax time, and

3. I do my own taxes. H&R Block just is not on my personal radar screen.

[middleman]

My first thought was FedEx. I did soon think it was tax related though because I remember hearing about an accountant in my area who is an NFL Referee (David Boston's dad) and a CPA. He had time to be a referee because he only worked FOUR MONTHS A YEAR.

[commasense]

I got an e-mail today with these impressive statistics about Ken's run. (It was sent on Tuesday, so it doesn't include the last show).

Earnings through Nov. 29: $2,520,700

2,613 correct answers out of 2,848 attempted (not including Final Jeopardy). That's 91.7% right!

2,575 First Ring-ins

93 Category Sweeps -- more than one for each show!

132 Daily Doubles correct out of 157 attempted: 84% right.

51: Final Jeopardys correct out of 74 attempts: 69% right.

Quite a record.

[middleman]

I'd be interested to see how often he had to come from behind in Final Jeopardy.

Also, how many times someone else failed to make it to Final Jeopardy while he was on the show.

There was a segement on CNN at lunch that showed a party in the DC area where Ken's Roadkill gathered to watch his last show. The title of the segment was SOUR GRAPES.

INDEED!

[Jman]

Originally Posted by watsonwil

I'd be interested to see how often he had to come from behind in Final Jeopardy.

Also, how many times someone else failed to make it to Final Jeopardy while he was on the show.

There was a segement on CNN at lunch that showed a party in the DC area where Ken's Roadkill gathered to watch his last show. The title of the segment was SOUR GRAPES.

INDEED!

He never traiiled going into Final Jeopardy. The closest anyone had ever been to him after 2 rounds was the very first day, when he was ahead by just under $2,000.