Rollingstone's 500 (!) greatest songs

[omni-not]

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/sto...96661/500songs


Good Vibrations in the number 6 spot?!?! Wow.



Other comments from the Peanut Gallery?

[TellMeI'mNotCrazy]

The list is crap, for the most part, and I can only think of one reason for the top 2 on the list. And if that *was* the reason, the list is even more crap.

[rinni]

It's nice that they appreciate the greatness which is The Beach Boys - God Only Knows. I love that song, but it seems that hardly anyone I know has heard of it, oddly enough!

[iggy popov]

Yeah I'm going to have to go with crap as well. How many times do the damn beatles need to be on the same list?!

Rolling Stone has just become another suck-up mag for crappy musicians. I think they need to bring The Good Doctor back.

[MsRobyn]

I have some problems with this list.

First, it seems weighted less in favor of purely commercial artists like Madonna (which is a good thing), but it's weighted very strongly in favor of darlings like the Beatles and Nirvana. Fine, but how about limiting it to one song per artist, and let others have their chance in the sun?

Second, they should've ended it with 2000. "Hey Ya" is too new to know just how well it'll stand up next to the Beatles. (Besides, it sucks, IMHO.)

Third, even if they won't limit it to one song per artist, there's just too much Beatles and not enough Johnny Cash.

I want to see the methodology they used to put it together.

Robin

[Kid_A]

The thing that bugs the hell out of me is out of these top 500 songs, only 24 have been released since 1990. And only 3 since 2000, two of which were Eminem songs.

Hey, I like Good Vibrations...and the Beatles, I just think the last 15 years of music (we're almost there) has been sorely neglected on the list.

[Cat Whisperer]

The Ronettes "Be My Baby" is the twenty-second all-time greatest rock song? Um, I've heard the song - it isn't.

I'm starting to suspect that lists like these are crap.

[Hal Briston]

A few random thoughts...

The Good:

If you're going to pick only one Cheap Trick song, damn right it should be Surrender.

I'm impressed that they included White Man in Hammersmith Palais as one of The Clash's five songs.

<gasp!> They included the New York Dolls' Personality Crisis! Well done!

Whenever I read through lists like this, one of the things that pegs my BS meter is when they don't include Fuck tha Police by N.W.A. or Bring the Noise by Public Enemy. This list passed the test on both counts.

The Bad:

Blondie has three songs on the list, but Rapture (one of the most ahead-of-its-time songs ever) isn't one of them.

Billy Joel, John Lennon, Paul McCartney only rate one song each. That's the same amount as Madonna, Pavement, the Pixies, Tupac and The Verve. WTF??

[omni-not]

I agree with those who say that the last 10 to 15 years are almost non existent in the list.... and I'll confess I've lost track of what's hip and what's not. Although hearing what plays on radio nowadays, I will say I am at least in partial agreement that the overall quality has gone down (just my opinion here) along with the talent.

Be that as it may, I still find many questionable choices in that list and I, too, wouldn't mind some clarification as to the methodology used to compile it.

As for too many Beatles' songs finding themselves on the list, there never can be too much of THAT!

[umop ap!sdn]

Imagine made #3 - that's a good thing IMO. Baker Street is nowhere to be found on that list - not a good thing. These lists are way too opinion based to take as anything other than the compiler's music preferences. While their tastes agree with mine as far as the heavier treatment of the '60s through '80s as opposed to the '90s and today, there was so much more during '78-79 than what they included.

It is nice to read up on the descriptions of the songs, though, just to find out more about them.

[astorian]

There's no way to make a list like this that will please everyone, or even MOST people. Lists like this are always just filler.

Even so, this list is even worse than most, because it's so obviously the work of a committee that's less interested in picking good songs than in touching all the bases.

Perfect example: "Smells Like Teen Spirit" is clearly on the list ONLY because the listmakers realized their top ten was too retro, and they felt they HAD to put a "modern" rock song in the top ten, lest they be charged (correctly) with being boring old hippies stuck in the Sixties.

And "Johnny B. Goode" (not even Chuck Berry's greatest single) is in the top ten solely because the Rolling Stone staff felt they had to pay tribute to Chuck, who's the closest thing rock and roll has to a father. My guess: they decided Chuck Berry had to be somewhere in the top ten, and just cited his best known (but not best) song.

[mack]

Won't Get Fooled Again is 133? Sheesh.

Neil Young got shafted. His first song on the list is at 297, far behind such a luminary as Hot Stuff by Donna Summer.

[vinniepaz]

Yep. Hey Ya is the 180th best song of all time. ALL TIME. and the 4th best rap(arguable) song. Yeah thats right. God do i hate that song.

And only one Tupac song? California Love? What about Changes? Life Goes On? This list is a joke.

[iampunha]

Simon & Garfunkel debut at #47. Meanwhile The Ronettes are at #22.

[Kyla]

Originally Posted by iampunha

Simon & Garfunkel debut at #47. Meanwhile The Ronettes are at #22.

Man, am I the only one who's gonna give the Ronettes some respect? Be My Baby is a great song and the first one that employed the Wall of Sound. Listen to it with the volume turned up and it's pretty amazing. I remember watching that History of Rock thing that PBS shows every once in a while, and Brian Wilson talks about the first time he heard that song - he was so blown away, he had to pull the car over.

As for the rest of the list, eh, these lists are always a little bullshit. I'm not a big Beatles' fan, so no way am I going to agree with most of those picks.

[flamingbananas]

While some of the list I terribly disagree with (Hey Ya?) I'm happy to say Weezer slipped on the list at #497 with Buddy Holly. I'd say some other songs were better, but Weezer is practically my favorite band, and they are quite good just not very known.

[silenus]

I don't disagree much with the Top 50, but then again I'm approaching geezerdom. There can never be too many Beatles songs on a list like this.

Remember, kids: The c in rap is silent.

[Sunshine and Smiles]

Awful, awful list.

Did the editor have an affair with Chuck Berry, or something??

[Gail]

500 songs and not one by Steely Dan. That's seriously messed up...Not even Rikki Don't Lose That Number. I guess neither Becker and Fagen were on the voting committee.

[TellMeI'mNotCrazy]

Originally Posted by Gail

500 songs and not one by Steely Dan. That's seriously messed up...Not even Rikki Don't Lose That Number. I guess neither Becker and Fagen were on the voting committee.

It's hard to look at a list and try and think of everyone you think should be on it, and check if they are there. Thus, I completely missed that Steely Dan didn't make it, and that is insanity. I'm not saying that they're the pinnacle of rock (well, IMHO, they are way up there) but I can't believe a top 500 list would not include them somewhere, especially considering some of the music that did make the cut.

As I said. Crap.

[Oat1957]

Originally Posted by silenus

I don't disagree much with the Top 50, but then again I'm approaching geezerdom. There can never be too many Beatles songs on a list like this.

Remember, kids: The c in rap is silent.

[Carcosa]

Originally Posted by Gail

500 songs and not one by Steely Dan. That's seriously messed up...Not even Rikki Don't Lose That Number. I guess neither Becker and Fagen were on the voting committee.

Nothing by Steely Dan, but Sonny and Cher made the list. Think I'll order a bumpersticker that says "friends don't let friends sniff glue and make lists".

[omni-not]

Three (3) Pink Floyd songs, with the best, Comfortably Numb coming in in 314th position.

The Message, by Grandmaster Flash, was ranked at number 51.


Nuf said.

[vinniepaz]

And just what, pray tell, do you have against Grandmaster Flash?

[Seven]

This isn't a "top songs" list, it's the play list from any Classic Rock station across the country.

I even think the order is the same.

[mhendo]

I realise these lists are designed mainly to start conversations exactly like this one, and that all our choices are subjective.

Still, nothing by The Pretenders? That sucks.

And i would have chosen a different Tracy Chapman song. "Fast Car" wasn't even the best song on its album, IMO.

While i'm not a huge fan of the band, i think Dire Straits' "Sultans of Swing" deserves a spot.

And even if they were insisting on staying within the realms of fairly mainstream, conservative choices, i think they could have found room for (at least) one song by:

The Violent Femmes
ELO
Hole
Supertramp
Steve Earle
Foo Fighters
INXS
Sweet ("Ballroom Blitz")
Lenny Kravitz
Red Hot Chili Peppers
Kiss

And a bunch of others.

[Philster]

That list was worse than I imagined. I can't respect it, and it didn't satisfy me, because I got bad vibrations.

[pulykamell]

The list is a bit too retro for my tastes, but overall, I don't think it's too bad a list.

"Hey Ya!" IMHO deserves to be #120, and I feel it will easily survive the test of time. Some people think it's a faddish, ephemeral song whose novelty will wear off in a few years. These people don't know what they're talking about.

Personally, I wouldn't have any more Lennon or McCartney. I love the Beatles, but I think their solo careers were rather boring. I think "Imagine" as number 3 is a bit overrated (I'd put it in the 100s to 200s), but given its cultural importance, perhaps it does deserve to be up in the top 10. Same with "Smells Like Teen Spirit." I don't think it's Top 10 material, but it does have the symbolic importance of being the song that hailed our transition from Hair Metal to Alternative Rock.

The fact that one of my favorite groups, The Left Banke, managed to make the list (with 'Walk Away Renee' at #220) vouches well for the listmakers.

However, in the same general genre, the Zombies—master pop craftsmen and in my opinion second only to The Beatles at the time—only manage one placement, with She's Not There at #291. Very very sad, indeed. With the greatness of Odessey and Oracle, not a single song from that album appears? Umm..."Time of the Season" anyone? "Care of Cell 44"? "A Rose for Emily"?

Given the people doing the voting, a list like this will tend towards the mainstream, and older songs that have already stood the test of time will outvote newer, fresher tunes.

But overall, I don't think it's that bad.

[The Master Killer]

I am outraged that the song "Smell Like Teen Spirit" ranked higher than "Stairway to Heaven"!!!!

This is disgusting!!!!

[Wilson]

I agree about Stairway to Heaven - it deserves to be much higher.

Besides the omissions of Steely Dan and Dire Straits, there are some other bands missing:
No Rush?
No Yes?
No Genesis?
No Pearl Jam?
No Peter Gabriel?
No Jethro Tull?
No Talking Heads???
No Night Ranger??? (OK, that one's a joke).

I mean, I know my definition of Rock is not exactly the same as Rolling Stone's, but...

Two things I did like seeing - The Weight at number 41, and 96 Tears making the list.

[drm]

Personally I'm glad to see that Led Zeppelin debuts as low as 31. I find their sound very unappealing.

There is way too much of the Beatles and although U2 is represented very well a few of my favorites are left out, but I can deal with that.

I think it's an okay list.

[Uncommon Sense]

Sucky list. I noticed Metallica got one nod for "Enter Sandman". Not even one of their ten best.

Also, this does not seem to be Rock only. There is rap and some country mixed in. If they're going to add rap and country to the list there are lots of wayyyy better songs that they missed. No Garth Brooks, no Brooks and Dunn, no HWjr,
no Waylon or Willie either.

Sucks.

[SpartanDC]

Originally Posted by Uncommon Sense

Also, this does not seem to be Rock only. There is rap and some country mixed in. If they're going to add rap and country to the list there are lots of wayyyy better songs that they missed. No Garth Brooks, no Brooks and Dunn, no HWjr,
no Waylon or Willie either.

Rolling Stone and VH1 have both wrestled with this problem for awhile. I think the way they see it goes something like this: Let's say for all intents and purposes the "Rock Era" begins in 1955. Now, country/western was actually one of the three things that mixed together to create rock itself (the others being gospel and blues). So country music would have existed without rock, but not vice versa. Rap, on the other hand, sprang forth from disco and funk, both of which were outgrowths of R&B/Motown, which were influcenced by very, very early rock/doo-wop.

I'm not saying that's how it actually went. I'm saying that's how Rolling Stone and VH1 see it. Really, I think they just came up with that hackneyed formula so they could continue pleasing the changing tastes of their target demographic. If country suddenly enjoys a resurgence among city-dwelling 18-49 year-olds, you'll see more country included in their overall production and on lists like these. Of course, that's never going to happen, unless some alt-country performer like Neko Case somehow blows up. (Which I would not mind. At. All. )

As for the list, I agree with Kyla. "Be My Baby" is a tremendous song and changed the way that music was produced. I have no problem at all with so little music from the last 5 years being on the list because history has yet to judge it. That said, I think Hey Ya deserves its place. It's a song that transcends any real genre (it's SO not a rap song) and is, IMHO, the catchiest single of the past five years. As soon as I heard the line "shake it like a Polaroid picture" I thought "This song is going to be HUGE."

I was very glad to see both Good Vibrations and God Only Knows ranked so high, though I think California Girls is just a notch better than God Only Knows. The harmonies on the second verse of California Girls leave me in awe everytime I listen to them.

There is far, far too little rap and hip-hop on this list.

I wouldn't put Stairway to Heaven that high. It's, at best, the third best song on Led Zeppelin IV, after Misty Mountain Hop and When The Levee Breaks.

Nice to see a couple Radiohead songs on there.

Oh, and Oat1957 and silenus? Congratulations, you just became your parents.

[davenportavenger]

No Replacements?
No Talking Heads?
No Devo?
Only one Pixies song? (And not their best?)

Meh. At least Pavement got a mention. I was surprised at that one.

[silenus]

Originally Posted by SNenc

Oh, and Oat1957 and silenus? Congratulations, you just became your parents.

Nah. Your parents, maybe. My parents listen to Lawrence Welk and Mitch Miller! Elvis was a gift from God for me.

[ultrafilter]

In general, lists like these are composed by asking several hundred people to list their ten favorite songs and compiling the list from the responses. I'm not sure how they resolve ties, and based on some of the absences, I'm not sure how they pick the people to ask.

AFAIK, Rolling Stone has been geriatric since I was in diapers, so I don't worry too much about lists like these.

[Trunk]

Originally Posted by Uncommon Sense

Sucky list. I noticed Metallica got one nod for "Enter Sandman". Not even one of their ten best.

Also, this does not seem to be Rock only. There is rap and some country mixed in. If they're going to add rap and country to the list there are lots of wayyyy better songs that they missed. No Garth Brooks, no Brooks and Dunn, no HWjr,
no Waylon or Willie either.

Sucks.

GAH! If they're going to put country on, it's not going to be any of them anyway.

You offer up HWJr, a rip-off money-grubbing pop artist and NOT actually Hank Williams.

And if it's going to be anyone from the last 20 years, it's not going to be the neutered duo of Brooks and Dunn or the solo eunuch Garth Brooks, but Dwight Yoakum or Steve Earle who actually had something to do with putting the cool back in country, not watering it down for the masses.

Originally Posted by Kyla

and Brian Wilson talks about the first time he heard that song - he was so blown away, he had to pull the car over.

I heard him tell "Don & Mike" that the big drum beat at the beginning of "Be My Baby" inspired the beginning of "God Only Knows" -- which is easily the best "rock" love song ever written, and a better Beach Boys song than "Good Vibrations" even though they're both very good songs.

(It's possible I'm mixing up "BMB" with another "girl group" song, though I don't think so. I'm just playing them in my head. Doesn't BMB open with that big BOOM ba BOOM?)

[Cisco]

Originally Posted by mhendo

these lists are designed mainly to start conversations exactly like this one

Yup.

Every time some list comes out like this there will be a thread here at the SDMB and everyone will piss and moan or praise or analyze for a couple pages and then slowly it dawns on us that this is what they want us to be doing!.

It's like People Magazine's 50 Most Beautiful People list. They are not the 50 most beautiful people. They are the 50 most popular people. They sell magazines, just like these lists do.


Still, without even looking at the list, I betting it's safe to say there's no 311 on it.

Sigh.

[Cisco]

Gah, I told myself I wasn't going to look, but I did. And I kind of proved one of my own points.

Sublime was wildly popular in the late '90s. They were making all kinds of lists like this; top 100 guitar solos, best band lists, best song lists, etc. But seeing as how their singer was dead before pretty much anybody ever heard of them, not a lot of their stuff got heavy rotation on radio and MTV (In fact, I can only think of 3 of their songs that I've ever heard on the radio - What I Got, Santeria, and Wrong Way), and you especially don't hear much about them today, almost 10 years since Brad's untimely death.

Sublime was, as I expected, absent from this list.

[Uncommon Sense]

Originally Posted by Trunk

GAH! If they're going to put country on, it's not going to be any of them anyway.

You offer up HWJr, a rip-off money-grubbing pop artist and NOT actually Hank Williams.

And if it's going to be anyone from the last 20 years, it's not going to be the neutered duo of Brooks and Dunn or the solo eunuch Garth Brooks, but Dwight Yoakum or Steve Earle who actually had something to do with putting the cool back in country, not watering it down for the masses.

Whoah, slow down there sparky. I didn't mention Hank Sr. because he's already on the list. I had to mention the Brooks' because they, after all have sold the most country albums of the modern genre and shouldn't be ignored. Garth Brooks and B&D are two of the reasons that country has made such a comeback in the last fifteen years. You can't deny that. You mention watering it down for the masses, but what you don't realise is that's what the masses want, according to concert and album sales. They like Shania, Garth, Tim, Faith, and the plethora of new talent that has flooded the country scene as of late.
The top recent (last ten years) country anthems are Shania's "I Feel Like a Woman", Brooks and Dunn's "Boot Scoot Boogie", and Garth's "Friends in Low Places". Those should be on there just due to their sheer volume of sales and play. I'm not saying they're the greatest country songs, but if there is any credit given to popularity it should be given to these guys.

PS, I did mention Willie and Waylon. And I mean really, how can George Strait not be on the list?? After all, he's got what, 45 #1's on the country charts.

Travesty in gargantuan form. Soft Cell's "Tainted Love" which spent the entire year of 1981 on the charts is NOT on the list.

[Cat Whisperer]

And what about Hall and Oates? I believe they practically invented "blue-eyed soul." A list of 500 songs surely has room for "Sara Smile", one of the coolest songs evah.

(If they're on the list and I missed it, please ignore preceding post.)

I don't mind "Be My Baby" on the list, but I think it should be flipped for position with "Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow?" in terms of impact and having something to say worth listening to.

[omni-not]

feather: nope, they're not on it. By the way, you most probably have noticed that you can rank by artist as well....which makes it simpler to see if your fave has made the cut or not.

[fruitbat]

These lists always get me agitated. I think two comments will suffice. First, the two best rock songs of all time are ranked relatively low, Sweet Jane, and Bobby McGee deserve better. Second, R. Kelly and the execrable "I believe I can fly" made the list. That, my friends, is a travesty.

[JohnBckWLD]

Originally Posted by omni-not

Other comments from the Peanut Gallery?

IMHO, that list is as cutting edge as the Saturday Evening Post

[Padeye]

Originally Posted by rinni

It's nice that they appreciate the greatness which is The Beach Boys - God Only Knows. I love that song, but it seems that hardly anyone I know has heard of it, oddly enough!

Some people know. It was used to good effect in the last scenes of Love Actually and Boogie Nights.

What did you expect from Rolling Stone? It hasn't been exactly the cutting edge of counterculture in what, 30 years or more.