Is there a way that I can relieve myself of child support

[hauss]

about 24 weeks ago i got my girlfriend pregnant and we are never gonna get married.
we have pretty much agreed upon adoption, because we did not want to kill it, but now its looking like she won't be able to go through with it because she has gotten too attached to the baby. If she keeps the baby is there a way so that I can sign my rights away from the child to relieve myself of the otherwise necessary child support.
Please don't ask why I don't want to do it, all I want to know is if this type of thing is possible

[davenportavenger]

Unless you can prove it's not yours, no you can't.
And I don't think you should be able to.

[Scarlett67]

Hmmm, how to phrase MHO politely, since we're not in the pit (yet):

When one chooses to have sex with a person of the opposite sex, one also assumes, or at least ought to assume, responsibility for any child that may result. (Regardless of the presence of birth control methods, which can, after all, fail.)

(Why yes, I do personally know several adorable children whose biological fathers skipped out on them and their mothers, both emotionally and financially. . . . and I think I'll just stop there.)

[MLS]

And it's not a matter of your "rights." It's a matter of your responsibility. Which you will have for the next 18 years.

[StGermain]

Actually, I think if you both agree to it, you can waive your parental rights and aren't required to pay child support. But it's not just your decision. It looks like the next 18 years are going to be expensive.

StG

[Antigen]

Your sperm, your kid, your responsibility.

[Giraffe]

Yep, it's my understanding that child support is not voluntary. Why would it exist otherwise?

[GingerOfTheNorth]

There is no way to relieve yourself of your responsibility. You created the child, you have to pay for it.

[Reeder]

Keep in mind that if you claim the child is yours and start paying child support and find out it's not yours...

You may have to continue paying regardless.

In most states it's 18 unless the child is still in school.

Then it's 21.

[Tenar]

Originally Posted by hauss

If she keeps the baby is there a way so that I can sign my rights away from the child to relieve myself of the otherwise necessary child support.
Please don't ask why I don't want to do it, all I want to know is if this type of thing is possible

I don't know what state you live in, but based on my experience in Family Court for the past eight years, the simple answer is NO.

Assuming that your (soon to be EX, I'm guessing) girlfriend files a paternity petition against you, and you either admit paternity or are adjudged to be the father after DNA testing, you WILL be given a support order, unless she does not want one for some reason.

The reason why you cannot just "sign your rights away" is simple.

Child support has NOTHING to do with your rights. It has to do with the child's right to be supported by both of its parents. Note also that the expression is "signing away your RIGHTS," not "signing away your RESPONSIBILITIES." You can sign anything you want, but it does not relieve you of your obligation to support a child you conceived unless someone else explicitly accepts those responsibilities in your stead by adopting the child. That someone can be a stranger (if the child is put out for adoption by both parents) or your girlfriend's future partner or husband, but it has to be someone. Note that your responsibility does not end until the adoption is finalized.

Consider this scenario:

Mom and dad have a baby. They still like each other (in short, they're still sleeping together). They want to keep the baby. They want someone else (i.e. the Taxpayers) to pay to support the baby. Dad, with Mom's permission, signs away his rights to the baby. Mom puts baby on welfare. Voila! They get to have as many kids as they want and foist the father's share of the costs off on the taxpayers! That's why this does not work. In reality, what would happen is that the county welfare department (AKA the Department of Social Services) would go after Dad to pay back the welfare money spent on the child regardless of how many releases he signs.

Buck up, accept your responsibility gracefully, and see if Mom (your girlfriend, in other words) is willing to work out a private arrangement with you. If she is not, and she goes to court, and you do not pay, be aware that remedies include the loss of your driver's license, sporting and professional licenses, entry of money judgments, total destruction of your credit, HUGE garnishments of your salary and even incarceration. You're a lot better off facing the music. And buy some condoms, for god's sake.

[Reeder]

Originally Posted by GingerOfTheNorth

There is no way to relieve yourself of your responsibility. You created the child, you have to pay for it.

To be honest..it takes two to make a baby.

Doesn't it?

[Tenar]

Originally Posted by Reeder

To be honest..it takes two to make a baby.

Doesn't it?

Yes, it does. That's why it takes two to pay to raise it.

[Reeder]

Originally Posted by Tenar

Yes, it does. That's why it takes two to pay to raise it.

I pay my child support gladly.

I just hate anyone telling a man he created the baby.

[Fritz]

Originally Posted by Antigen

Your sperm, your kid, your responsibility.

Ditto that.

[Tenar]

Originally Posted by Reeder

I pay my child support gladly.

I just hate anyone telling a man he created the baby.

Admittedly, a better way of putting it would have been "You helped to create the child, you help to pay for it." There are a lot of great fathers -- custodial and non-custodial-- out there. (In fact, my brother is a great custodial father who has not succeeded in getting a penny out of my ex-sister in law in six years.) Please don't interpret frustration as man bashing. None was intended, at least not by me.

[Qadgop the Mercotan]

From your other thread on this topic:

Originally Posted by hauss

Ok
what happens if the father does not pay child support what can the court do about it

Well, first they'll try the softer, easier way. Things like garnisheeing your paycheck, sending collectors after you, issuing court summonses, etc. Eventually though, they can stick your hindquarters (along with the rest of you) in jail. And they do. I've a number of patients doing prison time for habitual nonpayment.

[TheInterruptingCow]

I tried to respond to this in the GQ thread just now, only to find it was closed while I was typing...

hauss, pay close attention to Tenar's post. This pretty much lays it out (since your last question in the other thread was "what can they do to me if I don't pay". The simple answer is you can end up with your ass in jail.

I would add this: Tenar mentions the possibility of a "private arrangement". You still need to get any such agreement documented in legalese. Mediate if you can, but put it in writing and make it a binding legal agreement, not just some nebulous verbal pact.

As a purely personal aside...accept responsibilty for your fuck-ups, Scooter.

[Scarlett67]

Originally Posted by Qadgop the Mercotan

Eventually though, they can stick your hindquarters (along with the rest of you) in jail. And they do. I've a number of patients doing prison time for habitual nonpayment.

The "father" I'm thinking of most while reading this thread has been in jail for at least two six-month stints in the last several years. Now this is a person that you wouldn't want near a child anyway. But all he had to do to be in the clear was pay a stinking $35 a week. No, that's not a typo. Thirty-five dollars a week. $140 a month and his obligation was fulfilled. No child care, no headaches, no hassles. Didn't have to have any further involvement with the kid or the mother. But no, he has to try to beat the system. So now he lives on the lam, sponging off one uninformed girl or another (oh, and he has another unsupported kid now), working for cash (when he works), and when they catch up with him he's in the clink again.

He did get his picture in the paper as one of the county's Ten Most Wanted deadbeat dads. So you could become famous, I guess.

[Tenar]

Thanks, TheInterruptingCow. I forgot to mention that, of course, hauss should consult with an attorney who is experienced with child support or at least go to his local Family Court or Child Support Enforcement Bureau to find out what percentage of his income is likely to go to child support. (In NY State, you take your gross, subtract FICA, and figure 17% for one child.) Also be aware that you will most likely be held responsible for a separate payment for child care plus a percentage of health care expenses and (eventually) college expenses, if applicable. (In NY State, support continues until age 21.)

If you work out a direct payment to your girlfriend, be sure to keep receipts for all of your payments.

Oh, and just in case you were wondering, hauss: if you go to jail for non-payment, your child support arrears just keep piling up while you're in. And if you quit your job in hopes of getting out of paying, well, let's just say that judges are not stupid, have very little sense of humor, and have a LOT more experience in these things than you do.

[hauss]

what are the fees for the support let's say if I make 800 a month, 600 a month, and 350 a month. Basically, what is the minimum amount. And can i tell the judge that i cannot afford the amount that she gives me. I know that there are scenarios in which the father is excused example..... he is insane, unstable, half retarted. What is the most plausible form of producing the lowest payment owed for support?

[MLS]

Originally Posted by hauss

what are the fees for the support let's say if I make 800 a month, 600 a month, and 350 a month. Basically, what is the minimum amount. And can i tell the judge that i cannot afford the amount that she gives me. I know that there are scenarios in which the father is excused example..... he is insane, unstable, half retarted. What is the most plausible form of producing the lowest payment owed for support?

I think someone earlier made the suggestion that you consult a lawyer about such issues.

By the way, there's a human being going to be depending on you for part of his or her sustenance. A real man would be more concerned about that child's well being than about how little he can do to support it.

[Tenar]

Get a lawyer. He will tell you that there's no way out of this, but feel free to ask him. As stated above, percentages vary from state to state. And if you think telling a judge that you can't afford the statutory amount will get you far, ask the guys/gals in jail how well it worked for them. An order is an order.

Oh, by the way -- in case you are wondering how my former sister in law has gotten away without paying: unless your life's ambition is to be a semi-homeless crackhead street whore who gives "oral sexual gratification" in parked cars, I don't recommend it. From my point of view, she's not exactly "getting away with" anything.

But that's just IMHO.

[FaerieBeth]

Originally Posted by MLS

A real man would be more concerned about that child's well being than about how little he can do to support it.

I wanted to say "Word" here, but I don't think I'm qualified, since I am terminally uncool and a short, chubby cheeked school teacher. Let me just say, instead, that MLS has seen to the heart of the matter.

[Aural Sects]

Up here in Canada if you make less than, I believe 10,000 per year (I could be wrong about amount but it isn't much) you do not have to pay, but your ex has the right to get a copy of your income tax filings every year to make sure you're not making any money. For reasons I won't get into my wife's first child lives with the father and because she has no income she doesn't have to pay anything, but we still pay for clothes, school and whatever else is needed because we want to, but legally speaking we don't have to. If you really want to get out of supporting your child, which would be a bigger loss than any financial payment, then shack up with a rich girl and go on welfare.

By the way be prepared to be seen as a deadbeat, irresponsible, selfish SOB, and that's just my opinion. Pay the support, you'll be glad you did whenever you see the baby smile or hear her/him laugh, cuz that's worth more than you'll make in a lifetime.

Father of 2 and step-father to 1.

[Uvula Donor]

I wish this thread was in the Pit.


[bites tongue and walks away]

[Fritz]

hauss - are you getting the feeling that you won't get much sympathy here?

[Fritz]

Originally Posted by Uvula Donor

I wish this thread was in the Pit.


[bites tongue and walks away]

I gotta feeling this is going to wind up in the Pit anyway.

[astro]

Originally Posted by hauss

about 24 weeks ago i got my girlfriend pregnant and we are never gonna get married.
we have pretty much agreed upon adoption, because we did not want to kill it, but now its looking like she won't be able to go through with it because she has gotten too attached to the baby. If she keeps the baby is there a way so that I can sign my rights away from the child to relieve myself of the otherwise necessary child support.
Please don't ask why I don't want to do it, all I want to know is if this type of thing is possible

As a CS paying dad 'lo these many years, if the child is carried to term it is probable you have created a debt that will total approximately 15% +/- or so of your gross income for the next 18 years or so. I don't mind my CS, because it's for my kids, however, if it was for a child I would never get to see or interact with on a meaningful fashion, I can see how that would be grating, even if legally mandated.

Now, most pregnant young women in the situation as your soon to be ex GF is in, are going to be very reluctant to release you from any support obligation.

Quite frankly, from a purely cynical POV, your best strategy would to be to stay highly involved in the child's life financially and interpersonally. It's not guaranteed, but as things go it's quite possible your ex GF is likely to hook up with someone in the next few years who who wants to marry her and be the baby's adoptive daddy in fact, and in name, and wants you out of the picture. This strategy is a waiting game, but it's a lot more likely pay off than if you just sent in a check, as your presence in the child life doesn't have to be accommodated, but she still gets the money.

You need to be right there pressing for every bit of access to which you are legally entitled. Beyond this you really don't have many options. You're a daddy! Who knows, you might grow to like it. Kids are neat when they're not driving you crazy.

[psycat90]

Originally Posted by hauss

what are the fees for the support let's say if I make 800 a month, 600 a month, and 350 a month. Basically, what is the minimum amount. And can i tell the judge that i cannot afford the amount that she gives me. I know that there are scenarios in which the father is excused example..... he is insane, unstable, half retarted. What is the most plausible form of producing the lowest payment owed for support?

Support is based on the income of both parents in most states, and other factors including other children, and percentage of time with them, who pays for health insurance etc.

No, you can't tell the judge you can't afford the amount he assigns you to pay. The law is in place to protect the best interest of children, not irresponsible 'parents.'

The father of my children happens to be insane, disabled, and quite unstable, he is not excused from his obligation to support his children. Not one bit. I don't know how or where you came up with such a notion.

This must literally be one of the saddest, most despicable threads I've seen on this board. Way to go.

[Carnac the Magnificent!]

In this era of highly effective birth control, RU-486, and on-demand abortion, the man may well help in getting the woman pregnant, but it's the woman who chooses to remain pregnant. On one level, this power disparity may strike men as patently unfair, but those are the bottomline terms that men tacitly accept when they engage in sex. It may strike you--and millions of other men--as inequitable that pregnant women can make Choice A, which obligates men for 18 years, or Choice B, which forever deprives them of a wanted child, but that's life when you aren't the one who gets pregnant. In this case, ownership is 10/10ths of the law, it would seem. Love may be free, but pregnancy is anything but. I hate to be preachy, but it's time to acccept your responsibility.

[smartini]

Originally Posted by Tenar

Oh, and just in case you were wondering, hauss: if you go to jail for non-payment, your child support arrears just keep piling up while you're in. And if you quit your job in hopes of getting out of paying, well, let's just say that judges are not stupid, have very little sense of humor, and have a LOT more experience in these things than you do.

This is true. Case in point is my sister. When her ex reneged on his child support responsibilities she did not spend her time and energy pursuing child support. She first went back to college and put herself in a better position to support her child alone and did that quite well. Then, when their child was 16 years old she went to court and got the total amount of arrears paid to her and put it in a trust for her son. Her comment? "It's his and he deserves it."

hauss , whatever child support you will owe will belong to the child you bring into the world and they deserve it. Don't be deluded into thinking you can avoid this responsibility. Try to get your act together and do it willingly. You might end up with a rewarding relationship with your child if you step up instead of trying to hide from doing what is right. Think about it.

[Kythereia]

Originally Posted by smartini

This is true. Case in point is my sister. When her ex reneged on his child support responsibilities she did not spend her time and energy pursuing child support. She first went back to college and put herself in a better position to support her child alone and did that quite well. Then, when their child was 16 years old she went to court and got the total amount of arrears paid to her and put it in a trust for her son. Her comment? "It's his and he deserves it."

[hijack]
Your sister sounds seriously cool. Just sayin'.
[/hijack]

[Mehitabel]

I, for one, am glad that you two have chosen to give your child life. My sister-in-law is seven months along and she too has connected with her baby, who's starting to show what sort of music and food he likes by kicking and all. I can understand why she wants to be in his life and just hand him over to another couple.

However, has she looked into open adoption? That way, she would know the parents-to-be and if they're the best choice for your baby. There are many agencies that are looking for parents who are willing to go through this process, in which the child will know her even as he or she has a life with people who desperately want and are eager to have a baby in theirs.

Anyway, you sound like a pretty young guy. All moral considerations aside, you don't want to start out with Deadbeat Dad on your record. Do the right thing and you'll be able to look back on this confusing period in your life with pride. Besides, when future girls you're involved with find out about the kid--and usually they will--don't you want to say you did right by them?

[Mehitabel]

Oy. Third sentence should read "I can understand why YOUR GIRLFRIEND wants to be in his life and not just him over to another couple."

And I reiterate that not supporting a kid from a former relationship, married or not, is a big flashing STOP sign to future romantic prospects.

[beltbuckle]

This is a very sad thread. For God's sake, man, you and that girl are creating another life. Don't look at this as another financial obligation. That kid will need two parents - not abandoment. Broken homes create a cycle of more broken homes.

[Duckster]

So hauss, life has decided to smack you upside the head pretty hard, eh, and all you want to do is run away?

Well, you have some pretty fine words of advice, offered with clenched teeth from more than one poster. You should take the advice quite seriously before you find getting smacked up the other side of your head.

In any case, you still have a few more months to collect your thoughts and plan a course of action. I suggest you speak with some counselors as to how to cope with this upcoming permanent change in your life on how to save money, take responsibility for your actions, understand why you want to run away, and generally grow up a bit faster than you ever intended.

You may not like the answers here, but at least you had the guts to post here in the first place. Build on that because you are going to need it.

[Silver Fire]

Originally Posted by Mehitabel

And I reiterate that not supporting a kid from a former relationship, married or not, is a big flashing STOP sign to future romantic prospects.

Oh, I wouldn't count on that. My nephew's biological father was incarcerated earlier this year and had to pay $2000 of his nearly $20,000 arrears as a condition of his release.

His girlfriend (now wife, I believe) paid it for him.

There are an awful lot of dumb girls on this planet.

[easy e]

Originally Posted by Tenar

Admittedly, a better way of putting it would have been "You helped to create the child, you help to pay for it." There are a lot of great fathers -- custodial and non-custodial-- out there. (In fact, my brother is a great custodial father who has not succeeded in getting a penny out of my ex-sister in law in six years.) Please don't interpret frustration as man bashing. None was intended, at least not by me.

Exactly. I lived with my dad for the majority of my childhood, and my mom was shitty at paying child support. She still owes my dad tons of money that he's basically given up on.

She viewed it as supporting my dad, but I thought it was a slap in the face that she didn't care enought about me to contribute to my well-being.

[picker]

I can state unequivocally that you can be released from child support - it happened to me. I had just turned 16, and was dating a 17 year old who got pregnant and wanted to keep the baby. She was from Washington state, I was in the D.C. Metro area. She had moved there to finish her last year of high school while living with her older sister.

At first I was very eager to assist and 'be a dad' but common sense and some very smart and supportive parents made me realize that this was not a good option. After much discussion between my parents and her sister (who was her guardian as well) it was decided that she would go back to Washington to live with her parents, who would help to rear the child while she finished school. I would finish school (and work full time as well, to pay child support) and look to college or the military after graduation. All of us (including the girl and myself) agreed that this was a good option, and that we could look at involving me in a familial way once I was out of high school.

I paid child support faithfully until after I graduated school, and around this time the girl decided she no longer wanted us to try to make a family and that she was dating someone else. I ended up in the service, and continued to pay support (and send extra as I could) until I received a formal request from her attorney offering release from all support obligations in return for waiving all interests and involvement in the child. It turned out that she had gotten married and he wanted to adopt the child.

I'm not sure whether my release was a key to his adoption of the child, but after much consideration (at this point she wanted nothing more than to forget about the whole situation and have her fiancee raise the child as his own.)

Were this a bad situation, there is a good chance that I would have fought to retain my rights and be involved, but I had the chance to meet all of them as a couple, and it did feel like they were a family and I was an outsider. After much consideration (and a promise that they would not conceal my identity from him, should he ask, once he was 18) I decided that the best interests of my son were served by a stable family environment, and released my rights.

While I will admit that I often think and wonder about him, I know I did the right thing. Last I heard, they were still a family some fifteen years later. The relief from child support was nice, but I would still pay it today were it necessary, court ordered or no.

[elfkin477]

Originally Posted by hauss

If she keeps the baby is there a way so that I can sign my rights away from the child <snip>

You asked in the other thread what "signing away rights" means since you heard it a lot. It's something you do when you put up a baby for adoption - if both parents don't sign away their rights, there's a potential for them winning a custody battle with the adoptive parents later, especially if the father didn't know he had a child and decides he wants it.

[CanvasShoes]

hauss, How old are you? You sound very young and inexperienced. I agree with the "grow up and accept responsibility you created" tone of the thread, however, I think you might need some different sort of support here.

Yeah, it's scary, and it's a pretty big responsibility, but it's not the end of the world, or of life as you know it. There are all kinds of support groups and resources out there for people in your situation. Take advantage of them and don't panic.

For most states, what they stipulate as CS can't be more than a certain percentage of your income, so, if you make 800 a month, they're not going to make you pay 600 of that in child support.

It may be a bit of a struggle in the beginning, but as you get older and get better educated, and better jobs, it will become much easier. Best wishes.

[hammerbach]

You have the power to choose to be a better man than you are, and if you do you will find much help along the way. This kind of choice shapes you, not the other way 'round.

[Spongemom]

Originally Posted by psycat90

The father of my children happens to be insane, disabled, and quite unstable, he is not excused from his obligation to support his children. Not one bit. I don't know how or where you came up with such a notion.

My son's father is schizophrenic, and gets a SSI check every month for 500-something dollars. I don't get shit. His brother-in-law gets the same check for the same reason, and pays his ex-wife 20 dollars a month. I've been told that since my ex is getting that check, I can't get anything from it unless my son is disabled, which he isn't. What are you getting that I should be getting? Or am I on a totally different track here?

[Spongemom]

Psycat90, email me an answer, I don't want to hijack this thread.

[t-bonham@scc.net]

Originally Posted by hauss

I know that there are scenarios in which the father is excused example..... he is insane, unstable, half retarted.

Heck, here in Minnesota, even death isn't a valid reason to get out of your child support responsibilities.
I used to work with Child Support Enforcement, and they had an employee whose job was to watch all the obituaries, and check for people on the deadbeat parent list. When one was found, the county immediately filed a claim against the dead deadbeat's estate for all the past-due child support. And they collected quite often!

Longest one I heard of was a case where the 'child' involved was in his 80's, and the deadbeat dad was approaching age 100! We collected anyway; money never grows stale.

[Rune]

Originally Posted by hauss

If she keeps the baby is there a way so that I can sign my rights away from the child to relieve myself of the otherwise necessary child support.

Perhaps you could consider emigrating?

[phall0106]

I thought really hard about posting to this thread or not...but here goes anyway.

When I became pregnant with Hallboy, Hallboy's father freaked out. Apparently I was okay enough to have sex with, but he certainly did not want me in his life forever, especially if that forever was connected to a child. He made it very, VERY clear that he did not want a child, and certainly did not want a child with me. Throughout the beginning part (first four months) of my pregancy, he never let up attempting to talk me into an abortion. (Just for the record, I never once considered abortion.) When that didn't work, he switched tactics. He began telling me how innocent babies were, and how yeah, he'd pay for support, but he'd also fight me for partial custody. At the very least, he'd have the baby every other weekend, and oh, how helpless those babies are, and how they can't fight back and how weak they are, and how they can suddenly die in the most unexpected of ways. My best friend, thinking I was in a hormonal state of insanity, talked to the father, who told her the same thing he'd told me. Granted he never came right out and said, "Hey, I'll kill the kid", however, he didn't need to. I broke off all contact and never looked back.

Yeah, he got what he wanted (not to have a kid financially, physically and emotionally in his life), but at what costs? I never sued for child support, and never looked back. However, my son doesn't have a father, which to me (had his father not been psycho) would have been a better bet than getting a check each month.

I somehow think there's a special place in hell for someone who deserts his or her kids. (The father of HallGirls did basically the same thing in his desertion, although he managed to form an unbalanced relationship with them first, and THEN walk out of their lives, leaving me to answer the "why doesn't daddy love me?" questions. Try explaining to a six year old that her daddy does still love her, but he's "busy" or some other BS, without telling her that her father is a SOB who shirks his responsibilities.)

Kids are not disposible. You have the impact to be the best thing in someone's life, or the screw them up forever. It's you decision, and it goes far beyond a monthly check.

Mods...edit or delete this post as you feel necessary...

[irishgirl]

hauss, you sound REALLY young, and although my first thought was DNFTT, I'll go ahead anyway.

If this is about thinking you could conceal your child from your family if it was adopted, and have realised that now they'll have to know, bite the bullet and tell them.It's your child, and their grandchild, and even if it's upsetting, they deserve to know the truth.

No matter how much you want to walk away, you shouldn't. Think about your friends who have deadbeat dads, and ask yourself if that's really what you want your child to think of you.

People understand and forgive if their father can't afford to give them much, they don't understand him fighting his hardest not to give anything. Giving a baby to a loving home is one thing, abandoning it and leaving its mother unsupported because its existence doesn't suit you is quite another.

(Oh, and we're saying "people with learning disabilities" now, not "half retarted" just so you know.)

[Fuji Kitakyusho]

You sound young. I presume that your girlfriend is, too? If abortion is out of the question, your best bet at this point is probably to argue from the angle that she is too young, naive and/or irresponsible at this point in her life to consider raising a child. Throw facts at her about the costs of raising a kid, and the effect that it will have on her social life, ability to do anything she wants, etc. With any luck, she'll come around and reconsider giving the child up for adoption. If not, you're stuck - plan on paying for it.

[SentientMeat]

I think the lesson for all young men here is that if you wish to get your jollies while minimising the risk of being held to ransom when your jolly-partner wants the potential human to become an actual human but you don't, use condoms (or male contraceptives) rather than female-administered contraception.