Is this Apple's Last Best Chance...MacMini $500

[yosemite]

Originally Posted by Mr2001

Ah, so it's like what Linux users have always done, but a bit more expensive.

True, true. Without the elegant interface. And without some mainstream apps. But true.

[Mr2001]

Originally Posted by AHunter3

And then what haven't you got — in case y'all haven't figured this part out yet? native Macintosh compatibility! You've got an Intel-native version of MacOS X and nary a single application to run on it.

Indeed. And unlike some other times when an OS has moved from one platform to another (MacOS from 68k to PPC, PalmOS from 68k to ARM), running the old apps in an emulator won't be feasible, because the Intel chips aren't that much faster than a PowerPC.

[rjung]

Originally Posted by even sven

Kind of like what PC users have always done, but a bit more expensive?

Dunno about you, but I've never seen anyone stick a typical PC case in a home media center -- the shelves are waaaaaaaaaay too short.

In a related vein, someone's already offering to custom-install a Mac mini in your car...

Originally Posted by yosemite

And with additional stability, and no spyware, viruses . . .

And in that vein, here's an interesting article (registration required):

No More Internet for Them
Fed up over problems stemming from viruses and spyware, some computer users are giving up or curbing their use of the Web.

...2004 "was a real turning point in a bad direction," said technology analyst Ted Schadler of Forrester Research. "People are getting really angry. They're angry at Dell and Microsoft and their cable providers, and that's appropriate. They should be."

In a recent survey, 31% of online shoppers said they were buying less than before because of security issues. And though more people are signing up for high-speed, commerce-friendly connections, the proportion of U.S. Internet users paying for things online barely budged in 2004 from a year earlier. It rose to 27% from 26% in 2003 after jumping from 20% the previous year, according to Harris Interactive.

For many, spyware was the last straw. During the last 18 months, the sneaky programs have soared to the top of the list of tech woes, triggering the most tech support calls to Dell Inc., the nation's top PC maker. Spyware lurks on as many as 80% of computers nationwide, according to the National Cyber Security Alliance, a trade group.

Gee, a computer that's guaranteed bulletproof against Windows virii and spyware could find some eager customers here, y'think?

[Mr2001]

Originally Posted by rjung

Dunno about you, but I've never seen anyone stick a typical PC case in a home media center -- the shelves are waaaaaaaaaay too short.

That's what the smaller form factors are for. I've seen them at CompUSA.. Mini-ITX?

[rjung]

For $499?

(My CompUSA doesn't stock fun things like miniaturized PCs -- they're too busy trying to get me to buy outdated copies of TurboTax and Quicken for full price...)

[Loopydude]

Originally Posted by rjung

Gee, a computer that's guaranteed bulletproof against Windows virii and spyware could find some eager customers here, y'think?

Let's be careful what we wish for. The more popular the Mac platform becomes, the more desireable a target it will be for the malware authors. Even if MacOSX is much more secure than WindowsXP (debatable, and not realistically tested, at any rate), it's not invincible. No OS is.

Me, I'm happy with a niche market, as long as it's a big enough niche to offer the profits major vendors need to supply good software for it. My hope is the Mini grows Apple's market share and profits, but not too much. 10%-15% would be almost miraculous at this point, but 5%-10% would be a nice critical mass.

[yosemite]

Originally Posted by Loopydude

My hope is the Mini grows Apple's market share and profits, but not too much. 10%-15% would be almost miraculous at this point, but 5%-10% would be a nice critical mass.

I'm kind of with you there. The more spotlight put on us, the more people working to mess us up. I think 10-15% is a good number—small enough to not attract attention from malware people, but big enough to . . . well, "big enough." (Though if 15-20% happened, that would be cool too.)

I have been reading comments about the risk of viruses and malware for OS X on other boards and from other sources, and the impression I get (not that I know shit about this myself) is that because of the way OS X is set up (Unix-based), it's always going to be harder. Not impossible, but harder.

Frankly, after browsing around the various Apple/Mac boards, I think this might be amazing for Apple. Granted, the Mini may be a flash in the pan—it may not live up to the hype—I don't know. But so far there seem to be a number of Windows users signing up on Mac boards, announcing, "Well, I'm finally switching!" Or, they're asking how to integrate the Mini in with their existing Windows home network. Some are getting the Mini just for Garageband. Others have been getting sick of Windows for quite a while and now the price is right to go to Mac. If this trend continues, the numbers for Apple will go up.

The funny thing is that some people are so clueless that they are asking, "Can I install Windows XP on the Mini?" "Can I run my Windows software on the Mini?" (To which the answer is, yes, through Virtual PC only.)

[CaveMike]

Originally Posted by squeegee

And it's missing:
- A large HD for storing videos
- A video encoder (video->digital)
- A video decoder (digital->video)
- A tuner or 2 (for HD/SD broadcast)
- Any connections for video (composite/s-video/component)
- A facility for obtaining a channel schedule

I think there may be a few pieces missing that you haven't accounted for. Not that Apple (or someone) couldn't do this, but the Mac Mini isn't that close.

Yeah, I forgot to include an upgraded video card (with HW codecs and tuner). The rest of the stuff on your list is already covered. The current HD sizes are the same as the current Tivo drives. The next generation mac-mini (when I think this would happen) would have larger drives for the same cost. The channel schedule would be accessed over ethernet. The product would assume the customer has broadband access, which is fair-enough, since broadband just crossed the 50% mark in the U.S. and I suspect that broadband access among PVR users is close to 100%.

The price would be close to Tivo and it would run applications, games, burn DVDs, etc. Since it sits in the living room, it is an easy access point to upload your digital camera pics. Technologically it is right there, the big question is whether it could be marketted and sold.

And yeah, you can build a PVR cheaper - just run MythTV on an XBox - but consumers want a box that they buy and plug-in.

[rjung]

Originally Posted by Loopydude

Let's be careful what we wish for. The more popular the Mac platform becomes, the more desireable a target it will be for the malware authors.

What, the notoriety of being the first person to write a virus for a reputedly unbreachable OS wasn't enough?

Originally Posted by Loopydude

Even if MacOSX is much more secure than WindowsXP (debatable, and not realistically tested, at any rate), it's not invincible. No OS is.

Speaking strictly as a software engineer, I'll take BSD UNIX's twenty-five-plus years of proven open-source value over Microsoft's nine-year-old, proprietary, "nobody knows what it's doing" sieve any day. It's like escaping from Alcatraz vs. escaping from a straw hut...

[Mr2001]

Originally Posted by rjung

Speaking strictly as a software engineer, I'll take BSD UNIX's twenty-five-plus years of proven open-source value over Microsoft's nine-year-old, proprietary, "nobody knows what it's doing" sieve any day. It's like escaping from Alcatraz vs. escaping from a straw hut...

The NT kernel's security features are just as strong as the BSD kernel's. It's the collection of day to day user-oriented software outside the kernel that makes Windows less secure, and that's exactly what separates Mac OS X from BSD.

[scotandrsn]

Originally Posted by Jake the Plumber

Now, if Apple adopted something similar to GNU and opened up their programming, they would have a competitive OS - but it would be inherently less stable.

Perhaps it's because JtP was banned that none of the Apple fans here have jumped all over this one (unless I missed it), but...

Welcome to Darwin

...and it ain't exactly new.

[holmes]

Sorry for the bump, but this is one of the best reviews for the Mac Mini, I've seen so far and thought I might share it.

review

One thing I liked was that Anandtech took the Mac mini seriously unlike most reviewers and compare it realistically within it's target base, as opposed to the usual "I can build my own cheaper".

It's a real sweet box and system.

A couple of months to allow any gremlins to shake loose and I'm there.

[Roadfood]

Just an FYI for those (rightly) complaining about the exhorbitant price of the 1 Gig of RAM for the Mini: Apple just lowered the price to $325. Still overpriced, but a bit more competitive. You can get a maxed-out Mini for a few bucks over a thousand dollars. Mine's been ordered.

[Roadfood]

Most of the posters here are really missing the point. Apple isn't even trying to use the Mini as a "Windows killer", they're not trying to take computer market share away from Microsoft, they're going in a whole new direction. CaveMike and rjung have it right. Apple is positioning the Mini to be a true digital hub. Take a look at the AirPort Express: http://www.apple.com/airportexpress. Think about the iPod. Think about the market that the iPod created, the market that didn't even exist before the iPod came along. Think about all the praise that Apple gets for the incredibly easy way that the iPod works with iTunes. Read about one man's frustration in trying to fulfill Microsoft's vision of a "media center": http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1753761,00.asp. Now imagine Apple doing it right with the Mini and the AirPort Express and . . . Yeah, we're not there yet. But just wait. The Mac Mini is just one step in the process.

[rjung]

If this project gets off the ground, I'm stickin' a Mini in my living room for my family.

(Saw the Mini in person. To quote one observer of the MacWorld Keynote, "JESUS IT'S SMALL...!")

[Leaper]

Originally Posted by Mr2001

It's the collection of day to day user-oriented software outside the kernel that makes Windows less secure...

You mean like the web browser made by the same company that's so obsequious that many people think it IS the Internet, and so tightly woven into the OS that it's caused problems for those who've tried to remove it?

[Mr2001]

Originally Posted by Leaper

You mean like the web browser made by the same company that's so obsequious that many people think it IS the Internet, and so tightly woven into the OS that it's caused problems for those who've tried to remove it?

Indeed. A browser with the type of security flaws that Internet Explorer has would be as problematic on BSD-based MacOS as it is on NT-based Windows XP, and an HTML rendering engine that's used by so many other important processes would cause the same problems if it were removed.

OS X only avoids those problems because its web browser isn't as insecure as IE, and its help file viewer, file browser, etc. don't all depend on parts of the web browser.

[Liberal]

Originally Posted by Leaper

You mean like the web browser made by the same company that's so obsequious that many people think it IS the Internet, and so tightly woven into the OS that it's caused problems for those who've tried to remove it?

Microsoft is anything but obsequious. I think you meant ubiquitous.

[Leaper]

Originally Posted by Liberal

Microsoft is anything but obsequious. I think you meant ubiquitous.

D'oh! Yes, I did.

And here I am, an English major!