So Why Can't I Listen To iTunes If I Work At A Nuke Plant?

[Tuckerfan]

I installed an updated version of iTunes on my PC and in the EULA I noticed this:

THE APPLE SOFTWARE IS NOT INTENDED FOR USE IN THE OPERATION OF NUCLEAR FACILITIES, AIRCRAFT NAVIGATION OR COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS, AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL SYSTEMS, LIFE SUPPORT MACHINES OR OTHER EQUIPMENT IN WHICH THE FAILURE OF THE APPLE SOFTWARE COULD LEAD TO DEATH, PERSONAL INJURY, OR SEVERE PHYSICAL OR ENVIRONMENTAL DAMAGE.

Que? iTunes isn't an OS, so it shouldn't have any effect on the operations of a nuke plant, or anything else mentioned in the EULA. (Interesting to note that space craft aren't mentioned. So you could use it on the shuttle or the ISS.)

[adirondack_mike]

The OS is not the issue but the devices that are used to listen to the music. Just in case you are, or are related to, an H. Simpson.

[ShortBus]

It's just boilerplate legalese.

[CynicalGabe]

Originally Posted by ShortBus

It's just boilerplate legalese.

Until you discover the hard way that the scroll wheel on the front also controls the reactor's control rods...

(Just don't hit "pause")

[DocCathode]

Yahoo messenger includes the same clause

[Fuji Kitakyusho]

This standard disclaimer has to do with system stability. You obviously can use such things at your desktop, but not on mission critical servers or control systems. Regardless of the stability of the OS, insufficient testing has been performed on such software to be able to guarantee the complete absence of memory leaks or other bugs which may corrupt or otherwise interfere with other system processes.

Incidentally, congratulations on being the only person in the world who reads the EULA.

[treis]

Originally Posted by Tuckerfan

Que? iTunes isn't an OS, so it shouldn't have any effect on the operations of a nuke plant, or anything else mentioned in the EULA. (Interesting to note that space craft aren't mentioned. So you could use it on the shuttle or the ISS.)

I would assume it means that they aren't responsible for what happens if their program fails I.E. if there are audio instructions for a critical piece of equipment. If you us iTunes to listen to them and iTunes goes kaplooie and as a result you mess up the equipment and the plant goes kaplooie you agree that Apple isn't responsible for the second kaplooie.

[Balthisar]

Read this part again (emphasis mine):

THE APPLE SOFTWARE IS NOT INTENDED FOR USE IN THE OPERATION OF NUCLEAR FACILITIES, AIRCRAFT NAVIGATION OR COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS, AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL SYSTEMS, LIFE SUPPORT MACHINES OR OTHER EQUIPMENT IN WHICH THE FAILURE OF THE APPLE SOFTWARE COULD LEAD TO DEATH, PERSONAL INJURY, OR SEVERE PHYSICAL OR ENVIRONMENTAL DAMAGE.

[Tuckerfan]

Originally Posted by Fuji Kitakyusho

Incidentally, congratulations on being the only person in the world who reads the EULA.

Actually, I don't read the whole thing (Why bother since they basically say, "By using this software you agree that we have the right to treat you like the bitch you are and demand that you come back for more." in all of them?), the giant font they used in that warning just happened to catch my eye, is all.

[Tuckerfan]

Originally Posted by Balthisar

Read this part again (emphasis mine):

Right, which is what had me puzzled, since I've no idea why anyone would think that streaming internet radio to the core of nuclear reactor would somehow prevent it from melting down.

[levdrakon]

Since Windows is buggy, just about any program could cause it to crash. They don't want to be responsible.

What scares me is we're using Windows to control our nuclear reactors, or any of the systems mentioned in the EULA???

[Tuckerfan]

Originally Posted by levdrakon

Since Windows is buggy, just about any program could cause it to crash. They don't want to be responsible.

What scares me is we're using Windows to control our nuclear reactors, or any of the systems mentioned in the EULA???

Actually, no. It's come up in other threads that the folks who run nuke plants don't use Windows since they have to custom write all their software for their systems anyway.

[Cheesesteak]

Originally Posted by Tuckerfan

Right, which is what had me puzzled, since I've no idea why anyone would think that streaming internet radio to the core of nuclear reactor would somehow prevent it from melting down.

One might envision using iTunes as the repository and playback system for critical warnings or emergency instructions. Well, YOU might not envision it, but a lazy dingbat in charge of managing pre-recorded warnings and instructions might think it's a dandy idea.

Of course, as mentioned before, it's likely boilerplate language, which is easy to add and doesn't require Apple to think up outlandish scenarios like the one above for misuse of their software. Just throw the paragraph in, and the lawyers are happy.

[astro]

No, you've got to be careful. Apple OSes are bad mofos. Remember what that Apple OS did to the alien mother ship in "Independence Day". Uploaded a virus right up it's ass! Even the alien OS didn't stop it!

[Tuckerfan]

Originally Posted by astro

No, you've got to be careful. Apple OSes are bad mofos. Remember what that Apple OS did to the alien mother ship in "Independence Day". Uploaded a virus right up it's ass! Even the alien OS didn't stop it!

Yes, but what does this have to do with hats?

[astro]

Originally Posted by Tuckerfan

Yes, but what does this have to do with hats?

The Mac Daddy hat. Also dangerous around nuclear radiation.

[Nanoda]

For similar reasons as Apple lists it's recent iPod as being non-edible. (Though hopefully they're just being amusing).

If you encounter a EULA longer than 4 paragraphs, the nuclear power plant/air traffic control disclaimer is almost certainly in there, as it has become software-industry standard boilerplate, saying basically that if you use our software for anything important you're freak'n nuts. It's in the Microsoft Windows EULA, though for some reason some people ignore it.

[Tuckerfan]

Originally Posted by Nanoda

It's in the Microsoft Windows EULA, though for some reason some people ignore it.

Perhaps because M$ has been throwing wads of cash at congresscritters in hopes landing a fat government contract.

[minor7flat5]

Ever since I noticed the exact same boilerplate in Oracle's license gibberish, I have always wondered what database they use in the forbidden industries.

Surely, all other major league database vendors must have identical CYA wording.

Seems like it would be safer to use some trusted industry-standard DB engine (i.e. if banks trust it, it must be reasonably robust) instead of having to roll your own, but none of the vendors have the cajones to allow this.

[Voyager]

Originally Posted by minor7flat5

Seems like it would be safer to use some trusted industry-standard DB engine (i.e. if banks trust it, it must be reasonably robust) instead of having to roll your own, but none of the vendors have the cajones to allow this.

Well maybe, but if you wanted to, it might be good to have the vendor do a level of testing beyond that for non life-critical applications. I suspect the language is to protect them if some clown integrates software that is meant to be secure or stable. I assure you, that it costs more to test for a mission critical or worse, life-critical application than for a desktopper. This is one place where the EULA is okay. The part that says that if our software destroys your system and house, we'll refund you the price of the software - not so much.

[minor7flat5]

Agreed.

I'm all for such an EULA if it means that the blacklisted industries will write their code like NASA did for the space program, with multiple different algorithms used to back each other up, voting mechanisms to determine a winner when there is a disagreement among subsystems, extreme testing and so on.

I was just a little bit concerned for the folks that simply need a little DB for a noncritical system and can't be bothered with triply-redundant mega-tested code, so they hack something together.

[Mr. Slant]

I believe that not only are many OSes and apps are subject to this boilerplate, but also at least one programming language: Java.
Begin aside:
I have to say though... I really, really hate the way that software vendors are allowed to exclude themselves from liability for their merchandise. If ANY VENDOR of physically substantial merchandise tried to encumber their end users with the kind of restrictions on liability that the software industry does, then:
1. No one would buy it or
2. No judge in his right mind would let the restrictions hold up in court.

I mean.. correct me if I'm wrong, but Oracle licenses can cost upwards of $50,000 for a large enough site, but Oracle basically says "This might work, or it might not. We're not sure. Please don't expect us to remedy anything that happens if it doesn't work, but we will sell you tech support for an arm and half a leg."
If Cadillac tried to disclaim a new Escalade in the same way, I don't thing it would be widely accepted.

[Tuckerfan]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Woodall

I believe that not only are many OSes and apps are subject to this boilerplate, but also at least one programming language: Java.
Begin aside:
I have to say though... I really, really hate the way that software vendors are allowed to exclude themselves from liability for their merchandise. If ANY VENDOR of physically substantial merchandise tried to encumber their end users with the kind of restrictions on liability that the software industry does, then:
1. No one would buy it or
2. No judge in his right mind would let the restrictions hold up in court.

I mean.. correct me if I'm wrong, but Oracle licenses can cost upwards of $50,000 for a large enough site, but Oracle basically says "This might work, or it might not. We're not sure. Please don't expect us to remedy anything that happens if it doesn't work, but we will sell you tech support for an arm and half a leg."
If Cadillac tried to disclaim a new Escalade in the same way, I don't thing it would be widely accepted.

Of course, you can't exactly bootleg yourselve an Escalade off the net, either.

[Mr. Slant]

Originally Posted by Tuckerfan

Of course, you can't exactly bootleg yourselve an Escalade off the net, either.

I work for a Fortune 1000 company.
If we ran a production Oracle instance without a valid license, the first time they laid off a database or server admin, Larry Ellison would get an anonymous tip REEEEAAAL fast. So... you or I might be able to bootleg Oracle, but I certainly couldn't use it at work. And I have better ways of amusing myself at home than setting up Relational Database Management Systems and querying them for the heck of it.
I'll bet you someone HAS sold a Cadillac with some stolen parts in it on Ebay, but not at stolen car prices. The aftermarket parts industry is *RIFE* with stolen goods.

[Shade]

What worries me is the mantra that every disclaimer came from someone, once, trying it.

Did someone once say to themselves:

Q. What can I use as the control system of the feedback for the control rods in the reactor in this nuclear submarine?
A. ITUNES!

? :O

[Mycroft H.]

Originally Posted by Tuckerfan

Right, which is what had me puzzled, since I've no idea why anyone would think that streaming internet radio to the core of nuclear reactor would somehow prevent it from melting down.

I would not be surprised to see this as the plot for an upcoming movie. And it’ll work! (Damn Hollywood writers. )

[CynicalGabe]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Woodall

The aftermarket parts industry is *RIFE* with stolen goods.

I though stolen goods *were* the aftermarket parts industry?

[Roches]

For similar reasons as Apple lists it's recent iPod as being non-edible. (Though hopefully they're just being amusing).

Does this mean that Apple now includes a warning that repeated use of pre-fourth generation iPods (without the handy click-wheel that allows you to pause and go forward without moving your trusty thumb) may cause arthritis or repetitive strain injury to your all-important it's-what-separates-us-from-the-animals opposable right thumb? However, for fourth-generation iPods, having the shuffle feature on the main menu might lead to depression caused by social isolation, since we all know that the iPod 'likes' to play your most embarrassing songs at parties! =)

[AskNott]

I read a EULA once, and it turns out I have to be Bill Gates's pool boy for a year.
--stolen from Scott Adams

[Jinx]

Everything related to nuclear systems/ops must be verified/certified as proven to meet certain standards. Heck, you can't even use just any calculating sofwtare until it is certified by the nuclear palnt as a valid program. And, what's valid at Plant "A" may not be valid at Plant "B"...so, it's all to assure the OS is sound, tried and true... - Jinx