A good debate for the 4th of July

[Annie-Xmas]

First of all, I grew up in Boston with a
maternal side that goes back to the Mayflower.

Now, the original settlers are always presented
as the noble, brave people who risked coming
to an unknown country for freedom, etc. etc.
However, let's look at the facts: They were
risking a sea voyage that could kill them to
come to an unknown country, where they could
take over the land and enslave people. If they
had a reasonably good life in Europe, they never
would have come here. How many of my maternal
ancestors were probably running from the law
in Europe.

The Austrailas say the ones that got caught
went to their country, the ones that didn't
came to America.

[Stratocaster]

Originally posted by Annie-Xmas
However, let's look at the facts: They were
risking a sea voyage that could kill them to
come to an unknown country, where they could
take over the land and enslave people.

Risking their lives for freedom is noble, correct? Most were not on the lam for forging checks, I don't think.

Also, it's my impression that the very first settlers did not have as an objective the enslavement/murder of the native people (that was just a bonus for some of the more enterprising later settlers). Didn't the first wave get along reasonably well with the Indians?

Of course, most of my historical facts I've collected from holiday cartoons narrated by cutely drawn animals, so what do I know...

[Initial Entry]

As far as I can recall most people came to America for two reasons :A) To get away from religious persecution and to (in so many cases) start persecuting other people, and B) to make money.

Honestly, while A could be seen as somehow morally upright, I really don't see B as being anything great. The settlers were just as human as the rest of us, I'm sure that there were people running from problems, legal or otherwise, but I doubt that it was the main reason people traveled to America.

On a side note, the reason that most of the settlers seemed to get on so well with the indians is that most of the indians were dead. The conquistadors brought all sorts of great European innovations along with them, such as small pox and the like and it basically killed off huge segments of the native population all through the Americas. Remember Patuxet, the town where the pilgrims ended up settling, and which they named Plymouth, was originally an indian town that had been emptied by the plague some years before.

[waterj2]

In Boston as well, the settlers moved into an area where the Indians had died and/or left. The Puritans wanted to practice their religion free from persecution. Same with the Pilgrims and many of the other groups of settlers. Many people came because they were attracted to that sort of frontier lifestyle. People like that are useful, if only for the sake of the entire human race not simply crowding the Oludavi (sp?) Gorge.

[SPOOFE]

Well, "the settlers" were a very diverse people. I'm sure that some of them liked the thought of adventure. I'm sure some liked the thought ot finding gold. I'm sure some wanted to bring Christianity to the new world. I'm sure some wanted to take advantage of the natural resources to gain dominance over other countries.

[Osakadave]

Well tell my Scot-Irish ancestors they came voluntarily. Most of them came as either transported convicts or indentured servants (virtual slaves). The American colonies served as the dumping ground for all those unwanted by mother England. Most of those religious settelers didn't com voluntarily, either.

Transported convicts, both men and women, were sold to plantation owners as another form of labor. One-fourth of the British immigrants to the colonies were covicts. Most of these convicts were male, young, unskilled, and poor. The usual crime was grand larceny. Generally, the only people exiled were those judges felt could be rehabilitated. Convicts performed the same type of work as indentured servants but were less trusted. Their length of service was usually longer than that of indentured servants. Like indentured servants and slaves, convicts frequently ran away. Political prisoners also were shipped to the colonies. Most of these were convicted following religious persecutions.

http://www.stratfordhall.org/ed-servants.htm
(bolds added)

The Africans became indentured servants, similar in legal position to many poor Englishmen who traded several years labor in exchange for passage to America. The popular conception of a racial-based slave system did not develop until the 1680's.

http://www.innercity.org/holt/slavechron.html

After independence, England need a new place to dump her trash. Luckily, Australia was claimed by Cook in 1770, and settelment began at Botany Bay in 1788.

Until the American War of Independence, Britain had sent convicts to America. American independence ended the practice and the British prisons and prison hulks were full to overflowing. The island continent at the end of the world seemed a perfect place to send them.

http://www.acn.net.au/articles/1999/01/australia.htm

[jayron 32]

A) To get away from religious
persecution

Well, to say that the first settlers came over for religious freedom distorts the facts. It would be more accurate to say that they came over for less religious freedom. Many of the early New England settlers, especially in Massachusetts Bay and Plimoth, and later in New Haven and Connecticut (which were settled because there was TOO MUCH freedom in Massachusetts Bay and Plimoth, if you can believe it).

Early settlers were Calvinists, who believed in predetermination, and being part of God's Elect and all of that. They came over to the New England area to found, in there words, a New Jerusalem, a place where they could be able to practice their own religion without outside distractions. They didn't like the fact that, in Europe, they were surrounded by people practicing other religions. They moved here not for the freedom to practice their own religion, but rather for the ability to practice their own religion "free" from other influences. And most people in Jolly Old England were glad to see them go. In fact, shortly after the "Pilgrims" left for the New World, Puritans at home got a little tired of having to leave to be good Calvinists, and so had a Civil War, cut the head off of the king, and set themselves up a military dictatorship to enforce a good Puritan life on everyone else.(I know this is a major oversimplification). In America, people really dug this, but when it all ended in England, it all ended in America too, with the forceful abolishment of the Puritan-held governments in the New England colonies and its replacement with the Edmond Andros led central government out of New York City. Most Puritans saw this is a portent of bad things to come, and the end of life as they knew it. Most of the witch trials came after this period, and many theories held that the witch scares were part of a greater fear that the end of Puritan governments signaled that the devil had come to New Jerusalem and took the loosening of the "moral code" by the Andros government to be a sign of the apocalypse.

The fact remains that the New England colonies were not set up for the purpose of giving anyone the freedom to worship, they were established to give people the ability to worship free from outside influence.